TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She was not arrested for a warrant. She was arrested for disrespecting a cop who pulled her over for failing to use her turn signal.

No she was arrested for not complying with an officers request and becoming belligerent and dangerous. Not for disrespect.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Why? The officer was giving her a warning.. We can not see her behavior in the car but he is asking her how she is and if anything is wrong. He is not being rude. She on the other hand is acting like a spoiled brat. He asks her to put her cigarette out and she acts like a witch. It is a shame. She was going to get a warning and that was that. She would have been on her way. She was arrested because of her behavior. My guess is there was more brewing there.
Of course the family is in denial. That is normal.. But you don't turn that denial into baseless accusations.

A woman who asserted her rights and is now dead being called a "brat" and a "witch"... there is no further civil discussion to be had here - period.

MO ~

 

[KaaBoom]

Don't police receive training on how to deal with all kinds of people? I cannot believe that they do not.

Student doctors in the med school where I live have classes on how to deal with patients.

I seriously doubt that there is no training. If there is not training for peace officers, there should be.

Their training is that all citizens are the enemy and a threat to their safety, and should be messed with as much as possible.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am an older white woman also and I could be Sandra Bland. That LE officer just could have told her why she needed to put that cigarette out. Frankly, I would have asked him why I needed to put my cigarette out in my own car. Shortly after I moved back to Texas I was pulled over and I asked the LE person why. He was nice and explained that my licence plate bulb had burned out. (I did not even know my plate had a light bulb). I told him I would fix it and he let me be on my way. If he had told me to get out of the car I would have been afraid I was about to be arrested.

When my son was a teenager (Middle 1990's) he was arrested as a suspect in a motel robbery. He was walking home, had on the baggy pants on. My husband and I went down to the police dept. and they were closed. I was beside myself and knocked on their door, or rang the bell, cannot remember which, and nobody answered. I then yelled "My son is in there! Open the door!" And a very nice officer did. Sat down with us, explained everything. Thank goodness I was not shot. The next day my son was released. The motel clerk was not so sure what she saw after all and back then tons of teens were wearing baggy pants.

Looking back, the stupidest thing I have ever done when in comes to LE happened when I was 18 in El Paso. There was LE flashing his lights up on my car and I did not pull over. Finally, I pulled over. I was asked why I did not pull over when I saw him flashing his lights and I said I was not speeding and was doing nothing wrong. DUMB ME. Come to find out, my paper licence, (new car, no metal plates back then) had fallen off of my back window. I felt so stupid. The officer was really nice and I did not get a ticket. Just put the paper licence back up in the back window.

Anyway, my point is there are good LE officers out there and the one that arrested Sandra Bland was not IMO.

You need to put it out because it can be flicked at the officer or used to burn them. It is like having a little weapon right there. Why would you not want to comply?
Im sorry, I back this cop. He did not attack her. He asked her if anything was wrong, If she was okay. He was nice to her until she lost it and he still did not abuse her. He just tried to arrest her and she resisted.

 

[KaaBoom]

Just catching up, but hopefully someone will be kind enough to answer this for me:
Do we know if he ran a background check (qw type) on Bland?
That's routine w/all traffic stops that I know of. But I live in a large metropolitan area.
TIA
jmo

That is routine for all police departments everywhere, and has been for as long as they have had two way radios in police cars.

 

[KaaBoom]

What was her new job?

Working for the University.

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

You need to put it out because it can be flicked at the officer or used to burn them. It is like having a little weapon right there. Why would you not want to comply?
Im sorry, I back this cop. He did not attack her. He asked her if anything was wrong, If she was okay. He was nice to her until she lost it and he still did not abuse her. He just tried to arrest her and she resisted.

While I do agree that the easiest and least conflicting thing to do would be to put out her cigarette, the officer did cross the line when he reached into the car and grabbed her.

I think your signature is very appropriate here "You never really understand a person, until you consider things from his point of view." If I think about how heated the topic of racism is in our country right now, I can more understand Sandra's POV. Here she is, a black woman, who has publicly taken a stand. She has posted videos about it, and she doesn't shy away from talking about it on her FB page. Knowing that about her, she is going to be very sensitive to any undercurrents of racism (real or perceived - I'm not judging) and act accordingly. She is naturally going to be on the defensive and stand up for her rights as a citizen. It isn't unlawful for her to smoke a cigarette while in her car. Should she have put it out? Yeah, she probably should have. But I can look at her point of view and see why she might not want to do it.

Especially seeing how all of this was over her failing to use a turn signal when she was moving out of his way. MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

While I do agree that the easiest and least conflicting thing to do would be to put out her cigarette, the officer did cross the line when he reached into the car and grabbed her.

I think your signature is very appropriate here "You never really understand a person, until you consider things from his point of view." If I think about how heated the topic of racism is in our country right now, I can more understand Sandra's POV. Here she is, a black woman, who has publicly taken a stand. She has posted videos about it, and she doesn't shy away from talking about it on her FB page. Knowing that about her, she is going to be very sensitive to any undercurrents of racism (real or perceived - I'm not judging) and act accordingly. She is naturally going to be on the defensive and stand up for her rights as a citizen. It isn't unlawful for her to smoke a cigarette while in her car. Should she have put it out? Yeah, she probably should have. But I can look at her point of view and see why she might not want to do it.

Especially seeing how all of this was over her failing to use a turn signal when she was moving out of his way. MOO

But we can not see what she was doing.. How do we know she was not waving it at him.. Her words were not compliant.

I can't see this as anything more than someone being non compliant and aggressive. Had she just complied we would never even know her name. What is the loss, putting out a cigarette for 2 mins..sign the ticket finish the stop and that is that.

She said she was moving out of his way. That is her explanation and she was only getting a warning. Nothing more.

She made this problem for herself.
I don't care who you are when an officer stops you, You comply with reasonable requests and are respectful and then move on your way.

Sorry, I can not support this one.

 

[KaaBoom]

Is there any evidence that it was based on race? I'm sure the hashtag crowd and professional agitators have stated such but I'd rather deal in facts. All the hysteria surrounding each of these cases does nothing but cause division instead of unity in ultimately determining what happened and why. Of course there are those that profit off of racial strife but I discount their opinions.

IMO this LEO was an with an attitude and he would likely have treated anyone of any color the same. I am white and I myself have encountered these type. Best thing to do is suck it up and obey and seek a solution after the stop is complete.

Watch the video again, and pay particular attention to the difference in the way he treated the white driver before. I'm also white and have also been treated like this by cops on dozens of times. As a white person you have to multiply your experience, to understand what blacks go through. Blacks are stopped 31 times more often then whites, and are three times more likely to be searched, once they are stopped. This is a regular everyday occurrence for most African Americans.

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

But we can not see what she was doing.. How do we know she was not waving it at him.. Her words were not compliant.

I can't see this as anything more than someone being non compliant and aggressive. Had she just complied we would never even know her name. What is the loss, putting out a cigarette for 2 mins..sign the ticket finish the stop and that is that.

She said she was moving out of his way. That is her explanation and she was only getting a warning. Nothing more.

She made this problem for herself.
I don't care who you are when an officer stops you, You comply with reasonable requests and are respectful and then move on your way.

Sorry, I can not support this one.

I totally agree that putting out the cigarette would be the easiest thing to do. I am such a rule follower, so I can say what I'd do in the situation.

But I have to say, after watching all the videos, I am horrified and disgusted by how she was treated during that stop. My stomach has just been in knots over it. It's one thing to read about a story, but watching unfold right before my eyes is a whole 'nuther ball game. Boy he was out of line, and a bully, and I feel the complete opposite you do about it.

 

[Sulamith]

You need to put it out because it can be flicked at the officer or used to burn them. It is like having a little weapon right there. Why would you not want to comply?
Im sorry, I back this cop. He did not attack her. He asked her if anything was wrong, If she was okay. He was nice to her until she lost it and he still did not abuse her. He just tried to arrest her and she resisted.

You think a cherry of a cig is a little weapon? The LE man has the gun. Some LE officers must have gone soft. MOO That cop should have told Ms Bland that she had a "weapon" and "Drop your weapon!" I would never think a cig is a "weapon". I wonder if chew is also considered a "weapon" as the chew can be spat at the officer?

 

[KaaBoom]

It really isn't that difficult, comply, document, take action. Cops can be real jerks, but to some degree, I guess it's part of the job. It's not always easy to tell the good guys from bad guys sometimes, public and LE.

Actually it's easy for them. They just treat everybody as the bad guy.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You think a cherry of a cig is a little weapon? The LE man has the gun. Some LE officers must have gone soft. MOO That cop should have told Ms Bland that she had a "weapon" and "Drop your weapon!" I would never think a cig is a "weapon". I wonder if chew is also considered a "weapon" as the chew can be spat at the officer?

She could burn him. And if she spat at him that would be assault.

Have you ever been burned by a cigarette? It ain't fun and it hurts like heck. It is something that can be used to hurt the officer.
She was a brat. She was acting odd and erratic from the beginning. He walked up and she was obviously upset because the first thing he says is " Are you okay?"
He is not a bad guy. He was not throwing the book at her. Just wanted her to pay attention to him while he explained the warning and have her sign it.

 

[kimlynn]

Oh, me too. I'm especially curious about her epilepsy. Could she have had a seizure in the cell? Are seizures ever fatal?

It probably could be if she had nothing underneath her head to protect her skull. I would hope that a head injury would be found during an autopsy.
We don't know if she was getting her meds?

ETA also a fall during a seizure could cause injury

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A woman who asserted her rights and is now dead being called a "brat" and a "witch"... there is no further civil discussion to be had here - period.

MO ~

She wasn't asserting rights. She was in the process of a traffic stop, was non compliant and erratic and acted like a brat. She was not even getting a ticket.
Then she is asked to get out of the car and refuses and makes it harder still. Then she attacks the officer when he is trying to cuff her. She is a problem from the start. She made this fiasco.

I am so sorry she is dead. I am sorry she took her own life. But none of this had to happen.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It probably could be if she had nothing underneath her head to protect her skull. I would hope that a head injury would be found during an autopsy.
We don't know if she was getting her meds?

ETA also a fall during a seizure could cause injury

One of the spokes persons for her family said he was not aware that she had ever been diagnosed with epilepsy. We don't even know if she really had it.

 

[bluesneakers]

You think a cherry of a cig is a little weapon? The LE man has the gun. Some LE officers must have gone soft. MOO That cop should have told Ms Bland that she had a "weapon" and "Drop your weapon!" I would never think a cig is a "weapon". I wonder if chew is also considered a "weapon" as the chew can be spat at the officer?

Seems like all they have to do is say "I was afraid for my life" and they can get away with anything.

 

[kimlynn]

She could burn him. And if she spat at him that would be assault.

Have you ever been burned by a cigarette? It ain't fun and it hurts like heck. It is something that can be used to hurt the officer.
She was a brat. She was acting odd and erratic from the beginning. He walked up and she was obviously upset because the first thing he says is " Are you okay?"
He is not a bad guy. He was not throwing the book at her. Just wanted her to pay attention to him while he explained the warning and have her sign it.

This wasn't about the cigarette. He wanted it put out because he knew he was going to arrest her. He was going to arrest her because she called him out on speeding up and "tailgating" her.
Right after her comment in answer to his question he ordered her out of the vehicle. IMO
Eta ...She wasn't even nasty or loud when she called him out. Just very matter of fact and calm.

 

[bluesneakers]

This wasn't about the cigarette. He wanted it put out because he knew he was going to arrest her. He was going to arrest her because she called him out on speeding up and "tailgating" her.
Right after her comment in answer to his question he ordered her out of the vehicle. IMO
Eta ...She wasn't even nasty or loud when she called him out. Just very matter of fact and calm.

Even his own department says he violated policy.

 

[KaaBoom]

Maybe so but concluding that proves racism is a huge leap.

He treated the white woman like a queen, and the black woman like a criminal. How is that a huge leap?