TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

[JeannaT]

In a somewhat related story out of Austin, Antonio Beuhler has been arrested again for interfering with police. He's created the "Peaceful Streets" campaign where he advocates citizens to video cops in action, and post the video on his forum. There is a very uneasy stand off between him and the cops and they're working out what is interference and what is the public right to be involved.

Interesting. Don't know how this one will end, but he was acquitted the last time he was arrested for this.

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/crim...rest-antonio-buehler-local-activist/31026841/

 

[Cubby]

This was a warning stop, casue someone thought they were getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle coming up behind you fast. Riots, murders,rapes in progress, shooting require a different kind of response that a minor road incident. I saw three cars on the road - its not like her getting out the way caused a three car pileup - she moved, quickly, as we are required to do, she was thinking he needed her to let him pass, that makes sense, she says it at the onset

I watched the video. Drivers are only required to pull to the right when an emergency vehicle has lights flashing.. BE never had his lights flashing until SB made an illegal lane change, right in front of him. In fact, he kept a safe distance behind her the entire, including when he stopped her.
She was high and in the right frame of mind, likely paranoid so she pulled over. Most people are more careful when driving with police behind them. When I saw the illegal lane change my initial thought was what a dumb move to break the law right in front of a cop. Changing lanes without using a turn signal is aganst the law. In this case she was never required to change lanes because BE did not have his emergency lights on while they were both in the left lane.

And please don't tell me his u turn indicates he targeted her. Sometimes officers have to do that to stay within city limits, or the area they are assigned to patrol.

 

[Cubby]

I watched the video. Drivers are only required to pull to the right when an emergency vehicle has lights flashing.. BE never had his lights flashing until SB made an illegal lane change, right in front of him. In fact, he kept a safe distance behind her the entire, including when he stopped her.
She was high and in the right frame of mind, likely paranoid so she pulled over. Most people are more careful when driving with police behind them. When I saw the illegal lane change my initial thought was what a dumb move to break the law right in front of a cop. Changing lanes without using a turn signal is aganst the law. In this case she was never required to change lanes because BE did not have his emergency lights on while they were both in the left lane.

And please don't tell me his u turn indicates he targeted her. Sometimes officers have to do that to stay within city limits, or the area they are assigned to patrol.

Sorry for quoting my own post, it won't edit. I meant to say she was not in her right mind.

 

[bluesneakers]

I watched the video. Drivers are only required to pull to the right when an emergency vehicle has lights flashing.. BE never had his lights flashing until SB made an illegal lane change, right in front of him. In fact, he kept a safe distance behind her the entire, including when he stopped her.
She was high and in the right frame of mind, likely paranoid so she pulled over. Most people are more careful when driving with police behind them. When I saw the illegal lane change my initial thought was what a dumb move to break the law right in front of a cop. Changing lanes without using a turn signal is aganst the law. In this case she was never required to change lanes because BE did not have his emergency lights on while they were both in the left lane.

And please don't tell me his u turn indicates he targeted her. Sometimes officers have to do that to stay within city limits, or the area they are assigned to patrol.

She was high when he pulled her over? Do you have a link to a source? (Not saying you are incorrect, just everything I've seen about toxicology is from her autopsy.)

 

[BritsKate]

I watched the video. Drivers are only required to pull to the right when an emergency vehicle has lights flashing.. BE never had his lights flashing until SB made an illegal lane change, right in front of him. In fact, he kept a safe distance behind her the entire, including when he stopped her.
She was high and in the right frame of mind, likely paranoid so she pulled over. Most people are more careful when driving with police behind them. When I saw the illegal lane change my initial thought was what a dumb move to break the law right in front of a cop. Changing lanes without using a turn signal is aganst the law. In this case she was never required to change lanes because BE did not have his emergency lights on while they were both in the left lane.

And please don't tell me his u turn indicates he targeted her. Sometimes officers have to do that to stay within city limits, or the area they are assigned to patrol.

There's absolutely no evidence to indicate she was high at the time of her arrest. Furthermore, the science isn't advanced enough to pinpoint when or even how much marijuana she consumed based on autopsy findings.

Studies have shown that T.H.C. redistributes in a dead body, making it nearly impossible to accurately gauge the concentration of T.H.C. in Ms. Bland’s blood at the time of her death. “We will never know the exact number,” said Dr. Lemos, a clinical professor of laboratory medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. Dr. Goldberger agreed.

By contrast, Dr. Lemos argued that neither of this report’s findings can shed light on whether she used marijuana in jail. All it suggests is “evidence of past exposure to marijuana,” Dr. Lemos said, adding that the report revealed “nothing about impairment, nothing about use in jail, nothing about when she took it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/us/sandra-bland-toxicology-report.html

 

[Cubby]

She explained why she got out of the way
She said re phone in her hand I am calling my attorney and he told her to put the phone down That is a violation.
It is not againist in law to smoke in your vehicle
Being ripped out of your vehicle casue of a blinking light is not the same as someone with a knife at someone else in the car - she did lift up her little turn signal at that had become a felony casue of his actions.
when someone says I have seizures, any human who replies "good" IMO is presty messed up peron.


Hey the good news is he is off the streets and cant bully anymore people - irony here is he will now be bullied the rest of his life in the pennitary

ahhhh karma IMO

She did not ask for a lawer. She willfully disobeyed a legal order to step out of the car. LINK regarding the legality of his making this request upthread. Then she told, not asked, the officer she was calling her lawer. Which I suspect was bs as she likly didn't have a tx lawyer since she had just arrived the day before.Her IL lawyer, if she had one and did not use a public defender, would not be licensed in TX.

 

[bluesneakers]

There's absolutely no evidence to indicate she was high at the time of her arrest. Furthermore, the science isn't advanced enough to pinpoint when or even how much marijuana she consumed based on autopsy findings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/us/sandra-bland-toxicology-report.html

Thank you. I thought maybe I'd missed something big.

 

[Cubby]

She was high when he pulled her over? Do you have a link to a source? (Not saying you are incorrect, just everything I've seen about toxicology is from her autopsy.)

My source is the autopsy as I think it is pretty safe to say she was unlikely clean and sober while arrested and booked and smuggled mj into the jail only to use it once she got there. I'm on a tablet and it is hard to link, but it is easy to find that it is hard for LE to determine if a driver is under the influence of mj with current roadside tests.

Plus, with substance abusers their tolerance increases as their disease progresses which would explain the thc levels being so high yet not necessarily noticing an impairment.

 

[human]

She did not ask for a lawer. She willfully disobeyed a legal order to step out of the car. LINK regarding the legality of his making this request upthread. Then she told, not asked, the officer she was calling her lawer. Which I suspect was bs as she likly didn't have a tx lawyer since she had just arrived the day before.Her IL lawyer, if she had one and did not use a public defender, would not be licensed in TX.

And he knew she had no lawyer? Do most people have a lawyer on their speed dial?

She could have called a referral service

 

[human]

My source is the autopsy as I think it is pretty safe to say she was unlikely clean and sober while arrested and booked and smuggled mj into the jail only to use it once she got there. I'm on a tablet and it is hard to link, but it is easy to find that it is hard for LE to determine if a driver is under the influence of mj with current roadside tests.

Plus, with substance abusers their tolerance increases as their disease progresses which would explain the thc levels being so high yet not necessarily noticing an impairment.

How did she smuggle it into jail?

 

[bluesneakers]

She did not ask for a lawer. She willfully disobeyed a legal order to step out of the car. LINK regarding the legality of his making this request upthread. Then she told, not asked, the officer she was calling her lawer. Which I suspect was bs as she likly didn't have a tx lawyer since she had just arrived the day before.Her IL lawyer, if she had one and did not use a public defender, would not be licensed in TX.

She could call a lawyer in Illinois who could at least give her some advice, or give her the name of an attorney to call in Texas. Whether or not an attorney in IL could represent her in TX has nothing to do with whether or not she could make the call. Yes, she'd just arrived in Texas but already had a job and had lived there before (she went to college there), and as an activist she's been in touch with many people around the country, including attorneys. Are you sure she didn't know any lawyers in Texas?

 

[bluesneakers]

My source is the autopsy as I think it is pretty safe to say she was unlikely clean and sober while arrested and booked and smuggled mj into the jail only to use it once she got there. I'm on a tablet and it is hard to link, but it is easy to find that it is hard for LE to determine if a driver is under the influence of mj with current roadside tests.

Plus, with substance abusers their tolerance increases as their disease progresses which would explain the thc levels being so high yet not necessarily noticing an impairment.

This is all opinion. Unless maybe you're an ME or toxicologist?

 

[bluesneakers]

How did she smuggle it into jail?

If she did that's just more evidence, imo, how sloppy and negligent everyone at that jail is.

 

[Cubby]

She explained why she got out of the way
She said re phone in her hand I am calling my attorney and he told her to put the phone down That is a violation.
It is not againist in law to smoke in your vehicle
Being ripped out of your vehicle casue of a blinking light is not the same as someone with a knife at someone else in the car - she did lift up her little turn signal at that had become a felony casue of his actions.
when someone says I have seizures, any human who replies "good" IMO is presty messed up peron.


Hey the good news is he is off the streets and cant bully anymore people - irony here is he will now be bullied the rest of his life in the pennitary

ahhhh karma IMO

Ha ha. The officer hasn't been charged with anything. You must be thinking of a different case regarding an officer spending his life in prison.

 

[BritsKate]

The charge iirc was for kicking BE. And this was after he said she was under arrest while trying to get her out of her car. Take your pick. He had to get her on something after such a display and I don't mean a display from SB.

Strictly speaking, according to what I know of Texas law, he could have arrested her for failure to signal from the very start. So, why didn't he? And so, I agree with you - he wasn't looking to arrest her until she'd questioned his authority about the cigarette. That seems, to me, to be the catalyst.

Failure to use a turn signal is technically an arrestable offense in Texas, though it rarely happens, according to Andrea Roth, an expert in criminal procedure who works as an assistant law professor at the University of California, Berkeley.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/20/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-videos-maps.html

 

[Night-owl]

BBM

Then, I think BE is exceptionally stupid. When he politely asked Sandra Bland if she wouldn't mind putting out her cigarette, he ignored her. Btw, "do you mind putting out your cigarette" does not sound like a LEO giving an order so it just makes sense to me that a motorist would reasonably ask why? And so she did and here is her question (which contains no foul language):

"Why do I have to put out my cigarette in my own car?"

(Snip for space, not content)

BE was entirely unprofessional. At a minimum he should get a written reprimand and retrained. And I don't know what would make me confident in his ability to act w/o direct supervision. You can argue he should be fired, and I couldn't really disagree. He damn well should have known you don't give someone the opportunity to argue. Don't tell someone to do something (put out the cigarette) that you're not willing to enforce. I don't recall seeing anyone on this board saying that, wow, was one professional cop.

Was BE baiting SB? I would say IMO, yes. You can dangle a hook in front of me all day, but you have to bait it tons better than that for me to hit it. Was SB baiting BE? Again, IMO, yes. If my supervisor told me to put out my cigarette while she's talking to me and I came back with " I know my rights" and "I'm calling my lawyer", I'm probably fired. I don't for one second think SB was asserting her rights, she was pushing an issue.

Someone needed to be smart and in control in that situation. It could have been either of them. It was neither.

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[BritsKate]

Just to recap, here's the official release by the DPS:

In the preliminary review of the traffic stop that occurred in Prairie View on July 10, 2015, involving Sandra Bland, we have identified violations of the department’s procedures regarding traffic stops and the department’s courtesy policy.

http://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/2015/pr20150717.htm

 

[Cubby]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any cussing there.

Keep listening, that wasn't a transcript of the full video.

As volatile as she was, the cigarette could have been used as a weapon blowing smoke in his face to interfere with his vision or poke him in the face with the lit end of the cigarette. It's not unheard of for abuse or assault victims to have burn marks on their body.

 

[Night-owl]

My source is the autopsy as I think it is pretty safe to say she was unlikely clean and sober while arrested and booked and smuggled mj into the jail only to use it once she got there. I'm on a tablet and it is hard to link, but it is easy to find that it is hard for LE to determine if a driver is under the influence of mj with current roadside tests.

Plus, with substance abusers their tolerance increases as their disease progresses which would explain the thc levels being so high yet not necessarily noticing an impairment.

There was some discussion about that in the press. In a live person, those THC levels translate to someone high. If that person hasn't used since 3 days ago, and that is residual, that person was what I would call heroically high. THC and metabolites ate stored in body fat. When a person dies, suddenly the amount of available THC increases as the body tissues break down. So quite difficult to correlate concentration after death to concentration before death.

I don't think anyone would deny SB used, but nothing supports she was high when pulled over.

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[Night-owl]

And he knew she had no lawyer? Do most people have a lawyer on their speed dial?

She could have called a referral service

She had previous encounters with police. She may have had lawyer on speed dial. A lawyer worth his/her fee would have said shut up, don't argue with the cop, call when you get to jail and I'll come bail you out.

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