UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[wtiger]

from all available info we know a few things:

1 - he voluntarily took the train to London
2 - he chose only a single ticket
3 - he took very little in the way of luggage

these facts seem to rule out a planned stay away from home and point more to either a spur of the moment action from a normally deep thinker or a totally planned one way journey to who knows where

 

[Bickles]

You also have to wonder what he intended to do with the money he took. He took approx £100 birthday cash plus withdrew £200 from a cash point. Withdrawing all that points me towards thinking he went somewhere and didn't want to be traced, otherwise you'd spend on the card.

 

[wtiger]

£300 wouldn't have gotten him very far in London in 2007 - surely he didn't think he could make a new life with £300 did he??

 

[helenff]

Ah apologies, I didn't realise that he'd been asked specifically. Doh!

 

[Kittypoo]

You also have to wonder what he intended to do with the money he took. He took approx £100 birthday cash plus withdrew £200 from a cash point. Withdrawing all that points me towards thinking he went somewhere and didn't want to be traced, otherwise you'd spend on the card.

I’m not sure a debit card would have been available for a 14 year old in 2007 possibly only a cash card.
He could have taken the money out to make a big purchase new game console for example and never made it for unknown reasons.
Also he could have been too trusting and someone else extracted the £300 from him. Is there CCtv of Andrew withdrawing cash? Doesn’t bear thinking about what could have happened next..

 

[Bickles]

£300 wouldn't have gotten him very far in London in 2007 - surely he didn't think he could make a new life with £300 did he??

I didn't mention a new life. However, the fact remains that his family have said he took the cash with him and he also withdrew £200.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

He didn't take his £100 birthday money with him. He left that behind at home. So some speculate that indicates he intended to return, or didn't feel right using that money for his plans, or forgot about the birthday money.

He took £200 with him, which was the maximum withdrawal amount on the cash card (leaving a small amount left in his account).

 

[ChatteringBirds]

£300 wouldn't have gotten him very far in London in 2007 - surely he didn't think he could make a new life with £300 did he??

He took £200. But either way it's not a huge amount of money, but even teenagers with high grades think like, well, teenagers.

I think there is a small possibility he was meeting someone he thought he'd stay with for awhile but since he didn't even bring a backpack of things, it's not at the top of my list. I think he went for the day and was planning to return home.

 

[TheRockingRev]

He didn't take his £100 birthday money with him. He left that behind at home. So some speculate that indicates he intended to return, or didn't feel right using that money for his plans, or forgot about the birthday money.

He took £200 with him, which was the maximum withdrawal amount on the cash card (leaving a small amount left in his account).

Thank you for adding this to the thread as the misinformation about the £100 birthday money does make a huge difference to the story. Leaving that £100 at home does make it sound like he was intending to return home later that day - especially combined with the lack of taking any luggage with him and buying a return ticket.

 

[TheRockingRev]

I think the gifted summer camp was the year before. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of any continuing involvement affer that. I've never found it very clear what his school life was like. The impression is that he was a homeboy who mainly liked playing computer games on his own and not online. I've not seen much to say he mixed much outside of school other than having previously attended church which he'd given up. Don't know if anyone has seen anything that gives any details of what regular friends he may have had ?

I was thinking that the gifted summer camp could've been where he met someone who possibly groomed him. A year prior would give that person ample time, plus if they weren't local / or had regular contact it could've taken that amount of time to do it.

With regard to him walking home from school it's an area which is similarly vague. All we really know is that at some point from time to time he started walking home from school. We don't know when it started, how often he did it or whether there was any pattern to it. Nor do we know of any specific reason for doing so. As it stands it may be a very important part of his case or totally irrelevant and we have no idea which it is.

I think it is an important part of the story - the changes to his routine does mean that he could've been doing something that may have a link to his disappearance.

 

[davidt]

I was thinking that the gifted summer camp could've been where he met someone who possibly groomed him. A year prior would give that person ample time, plus if they weren't local / or had regular contact it could've taken that amount of time to do it.

I think it is an important part of the story - the changes to his routine does mean that he could've been doing something that may have a link to his disappearance.

I don't think anything can absolutely be ruled out. The reason is that there isn't a shred of evidence for or against any particular scenario. There's pretty much nothing that anyone can point to. Andrew bunked off school and went to London without telling anyone or leaving any kind of clue what he was up to. Nothing has emerged since to help. There's no real starting point at all. I've said before a bit more clarity about his walking home from school might give it a bit more perspective.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I think the fact he had money at home but withdrew more indicates he intended to return home and didn't intend to tell his family where he had been. If he took the birthday money, he would have needed to explain what he spent it on. If he wasn't going to return, there was no need to cover it up, and he would have needed all the money. I think it was planned and he was meeting someone, which led to his life being ended.

 

[JSolt1210]

I think the fact he had money at home but withdrew more indicates he intended to return home and didn't intend to tell his family where he had been. If he took the birthday money, he would have needed to explain what he spent it on. If he wasn't going to return, there was no need to cover it up, and he would have needed all the money. I think it was planned and he was meeting someone, which led to his life being ended.

Since Andrew was a minor, did his parents have access to his bank account? If so, would they have received a timestamped notification of Andrew's withdrawal? (I realize this was 2007 before wireless alerts to a smartphone were common, but a monthly mailed paper statement would've contained that same info.)

I ask this because, if true, then wouldn't it have better for Andrew to use his birthday money instead of withdrawing cash from the bank? He could always lie about when he spent his birthday money. But with the bank money, his parents could've been like, "Hey, this month's statement says you withdrew money on this day and time when you should've been in school."

Maybe this just didn't occur to Andrew. Or maybe he realized only after leaving the house that he didn't take any money, so he was forced to withdraw from the bank.

At any rate, I agree that he intended to return home. I think he left his school uniform in the laundry as a delay tactic in case he returned home later than expected, but not as a head start on a permanent disappearance.

 

[davidt]

I really don't know if he intended to return or mot.

On one hand he left his clothes neatly, didn't take his games charger or all of his money.

On the other he deceived his family, bought a one way train ticket and nearly emptied his bank account.

There's something else that bothers me about Andrew's behaviour that day.

As far as is known (and I appreciate there may be lots not known ) Andrew seems not to have had any significant issues with his family etc. He had a 100% school attendance record and had never bunked off before. He showed consideration in putting his school clothes in the laundry.

Then there's the days events themselves. Andrew would have known that once he failed to show up a school one of the first things that would happen is that the school would try and contact his parents to find out where he was. I think it's vanishingly unlikely that Andrew had any idea that the school had the wrong contact details for his parents. Andrew would be under the impression his absence had been noted and his parents informed. In fact perhaps one of the reasons he went to London was because he expected locally people to be on the look out for him.

I struggle to recomcile the image of Andrew as a considerate reliable homeboy with him them disappearing without leaving anything to say where he'd gone whilst knowing his parents would be frantic with worry given this was totally out of character. As it turns out his parents were unaware but Andrew didn't know that. You do wonder why he aas prepared to do that. Was something so important nothing else mattered?

 

[Lucy6226]

I really don't know if he intended to return or mot.

On one hand he left his clothes neatly, didn't take his games charger or all of his money.

On the other he deceived his family, bought a one way train ticket and nearly emptied his bank account.

There's something else that bothers me about Andrew's behaviour that day.

As far as is known (and I appreciate there may be lots not known ) Andrew seems not to have had any significant issues with his family etc. He had a 100% school attendance record and had never bunked off before. He showed consideration in putting his school clothes in the laundry.

Then there's the days events themselves. Andrew would have known that once he failed to show up a school one of the first things that would happen is that the school would try and contact his parents to find out where he was. I think it's vanishingly unlikely that Andrew had any idea that the school had the wrong contact details for his parents. Andrew would be under the impression his absence had been noted and his parents informed. In fact perhaps one of the reasons he went to London was because he expected locally people to be on the look out for him.

I struggle to recomcile the image of Andrew as a considerate reliable homeboy with him them disappearing without leaving anything to say where he'd gone whilst knowing his parents would be frantic with worry given this was totally out of character. As it turns out his parents were unaware but Andrew didn't know that. You do wonder why he aas prepared to do that. Was something so important nothing else mattered?

You've made an excellent point of Andrew not knowing the school had the wrong contact details and him no doubt presuming that by 10am his parents would be aware of him not making it into school that day

 

[TheRockingRev]

You've made an excellent point of Andrew not knowing the school had the wrong contact details and him no doubt presuming that by 10am his parents would be aware of him not making it into school that day

Was this standard practice? I left school in the mid-90's, and at that time if you had a day off your parents didn't need to call the school, you just needed an absence note the day you returned. I'm guessing with safe-guarding etc. the procedure was changed.
Also which number did the school (incorrectly) call? I presume it was one of his parent's mobiles, but if it was the house phone then they wouldn't have got the message until later anyway - and Andrew would've known this.

There's a question of his apparent irritability on the morning he left, is this because he knew that he was having to do something he didn't want to do - i.e. go to London to meet someone. If it was something that he felt he didn't want to do that only he was involved in, then he may have just not bothered that day, knowing that he could his plan into effect some other time.

IMO the day was critical to him vanishing, something and someone had made it that day he had to leave - I think the concert, or what ever it was in London that day really does make sense to why he went to London.

 

[sportstergirl]

30 Seconds to Mars & Si'kth, 2 of Andrew's favourite bands had shows in London over that weekend. The concert CCTV of the audiences were studied but Andrew wasn't seen. Sadly I think he came to harm soon after his arrival.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Since Andrew was a minor, did his parents have access to his bank account? If so, would they have received a timestamped notification of Andrew's withdrawal? (I realize this was 2007 before wireless alerts to a smartphone were common, but a monthly mailed paper statement would've contained that same info.)

Quite possibly, but of course we don't know how much control they would've asserted over his finances. It is something that needs asking. It may well be they thought that as it was his money, then he could do as he liked. I guess he could've passed it off as a computer game / tech purchase - knowing most parents would have had no idea what things like that cost.

I ask this because, if true, then wouldn't it have better for Andrew to use his birthday money instead of withdrawing cash from the bank? He could always lie about when he spent his birthday money. But with the bank money, his parents could've been like, "Hey, this month's statement says you withdrew money on this day and time when you should've been in school."

I'm guessing as they saw him as a responsible young man, the statement would've gone to him as it was in his name. My parents did the same - the only time they wanted to check anything was if I said I was low on funds, and they wanted to know what the hell I was spending money on!!

Maybe this just didn't occur to Andrew. Or maybe he realized only after leaving the house that he didn't take any money, so he was forced to withdraw from the bank.

This. You have made a good point. I do wonder if he had forgotten in his haste to get out of the house. If he needed to be in London for a set time (remembering he may not have had a secret mobile) then it was vital to meet someone at at a set-time (how did we manage that all those years ago?) and he had to get the right train. As this day was probably out of his comfort zone, then his head was probably all over the place and he didn't think clearly - therefor having to take the money out rather than the cash at home.
As for the amount - there's attention on him clearing his account out, but it could come down to either a). get a large amount so he didn't need to get any money in London if he needed any extra b). get a large amount as he was planning on spending on food, transport, shopping on that day or c). who knows - maybe he just pressed the wrong amount on the ATM.

So many questions that we'll never know the answers to

At any rate, I agree that he intended to return home. I think he left his school uniform in the laundry as a delay tactic in case he returned home later than expected, but not as a head start on a permanent disappearance.

 

[TheRockingRev]

30 Seconds to Mars & Si'kth, 2 of Andrew's favourite bands had shows in London over that weekend. The concert CCTV of the audiences were studied but Andrew wasn't seen. Sadly I think he came to harm soon after his arrival.

These bands being there I think could be a big clue - if he was lured to London then it could certainly explain how.
One thing I guess though is how much discipline was there at home - going to these shows would've meant staying away for the weekend. How much would he have got in trouble for being away, even if he rang his parents on the Friday night to say I'm staying in London.

At 14 my parents would have blown the roof, so I never would've dared of doing it. But if Andrew's were more laid back, then he may have felt that he wouldn't have got into so much trouble, therefore taking the risk.

It does make a difference possibly as to whether it was something on the Friday or the weekend which may have drawn him there, and therefore his movements and locations.

 

[espirtu pampa]

There's a question of his apparent irritability on the morning he left, is this because he knew that he was having to do something he didn't want to do - i.e. go to London to meet someone. If it was something that he felt he didn't want to do that only he was involved in, then he may have just not bothered that day, knowing that he could his plan into effect some other time.

IMO the day was critical to him vanishing, something and someone had made it that day he had to leave - I think the concert, or what ever it was in London that day really does make sense to why he went to London.

Sorry if this has already been suggested :
Could he have been blackmailed ?