UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[TheRockingRev]

Sorry if this has already been suggested :
Could he have been blackmailed ?

In which way? The only thing that doesn't really add up to that, JMO, that apparently he was ok leading up to the night before. The irritability I think stems from him having to break his routine and the potential issue of getting caught.

 

[JSolt1210]

Andrew would have known that once he failed to show up a school one of the first things that would happen is that the school would try and contact his parents to find out where he was... Andrew would be under the impression his absence had been noted and his parents informed.

See, I'm not sure Andrew would've been aware of this. He reportedly had a 100% perfect attendance so he had no experience being absent. I imagine the procedure for reporting an absence was discussed with the parents, since they'd be the ones making the call. But would the school have discussed this with Andrew too? I honestly don't remember if it was discussed with me when I was a high school student.

Was this standard practice? I left school in the mid-90's, and at that time if you had a day off your parents didn't need to call the school, you just needed an absence note the day you returned. I'm guessing with safe-guarding etc. the procedure was changed.

I think it varies by district and even the kind of school too. I went to private school in the '90s, and in my case, if a student hadn't shown up by the end of the first hour of school, and no one had notified the absence, the school nurse would call the parents to inquire. I think I was aware of this, but I never thought about it since whenever I needed to be absent, my mom would call.

I don't know what the procedure was like in public school, and I certainly don't know what it was in the UK in 2007.

My hunch, if I put myself into Andrew's shoes, is that he was unaware that the school would try to call his parents. If he had known, then his actions might've been different. For example, he himself could've called the school when he returned home, and there was nothing the school could do since his parents had already left for work.

I'm sure he knew he'd have to explain his absence at some point, but he just wasn't thinking that far ahead. After all, it was a Friday, so he wouldn't have to deal with this till Monday. He figured he could just lie and say he was sick, and the school would believe him since he was never absent.

 

[TheRockingRev]

See, I'm not sure Andrew would've been aware of this. He reportedly had a 100% perfect attendance so he had no experience being absent. I imagine the procedure for reporting an absence was discussed with the parents, since they'd be the ones making the call. But would the school have discussed this with Andrew too? I honestly don't remember if it was discussed with me when I was a high school student.


I think it varies by district and even the kind of school too. I went to private school in the '90s, and in my case, if a student hadn't shown up by the end of the first hour of school, and no one had notified the absence, the school nurse would call the parents to inquire. I think I was aware of this, but I never thought about it since whenever I needed to be absent, my mom would call.

I don't know what the procedure was like in public school, and I certainly don't know what it was in the UK in 2007.

My hunch, if I put myself into Andrew's shoes, is that he was unaware that the school would try to call his parents. If he had known, then his actions might've been different. For example, he himself could've called the school when he returned home, and there was nothing the school could do since his parents had already left for work.

I'm sure he knew he'd have to explain his absence at some point, but he just wasn't thinking that far ahead. After all, it was a Friday, so he wouldn't have to deal with this till Monday. He figured he could just lie and say he was sick, and the school would believe him since he was never absent.

I think a lot really depends on the school procedure, as you rightly say all schools are different. I went to a normal UK state school and no-one ever checked-up, but that was 15 years+ before Andrew.

 

[Zapoleon]

See, I'm not sure Andrew would've been aware of this. He reportedly had a 100% perfect attendance so he had no experience being absent. I imagine the procedure for reporting an absence was discussed with the parents, since they'd be the ones making the call. But would the school have discussed this with Andrew too? I honestly don't remember if it was discussed with me when I was a high school student.


I think it varies by district and even the kind of school too. I went to private school in the '90s, and in my case, if a student hadn't shown up by the end of the first hour of school, and no one had notified the absence, the school nurse would call the parents to inquire. I think I was aware of this, but I never thought about it since whenever I needed to be absent, my mom would call.

I don't know what the procedure was like in public school, and I certainly don't know what it was in the UK in 2007.

My hunch, if I put myself into Andrew's shoes, is that he was unaware that the school would try to call his parents. If he had known, then his actions might've been different. For example, he himself could've called the school when he returned home, and there was nothing the school could do since his parents had already left for work.

I'm sure he knew he'd have to explain his absence at some point, but he just wasn't thinking that far ahead. After all, it was a Friday, so he wouldn't have to deal with this till Monday. He figured he could just lie and say he was sick, and the school would believe him since he was never absent.

I think he would have been.

My school had the same system, and it was pretty well known. In the sense the school made clear they wanted your parents to inform them if you were not coming in that day. So they would avoid having to make a phone call to check on you.

Because in theory of course the whole system is made to create an early warning for the parents should something have happened. Its an emergency system, its not just done for the fun of it.

But of course in practice and in reality is doesn't really work like that.

I went to school the same time as Andrew so I dunno if it was a common safety thing that had been implemented at the time nation wide, it perhaps could have been though.

Just tragic in a way that there was that mistake and time was lost. In the end though I dont think it would have changed the outcome because he would have already been so far away by the time of any response to look for him.

 

[tes1984]

It's a really fascinating case, but for me it boils down to young boy goes to Kings Cross and is never seen again.

The police arrested two men, who were later cleared of any involvement. I wonder what it was in their backgrounds that made the police take them seriously as suspects.

 

[Zapoleon]

It's a really fascinating case, but for me it boils down to young boy goes to Kings Cross and is never seen again.

The police arrested two men, who were later cleared of any involvement. I wonder what it was in their backgrounds that made the police take them seriously as suspects.

Can we really say for sure though there was anything in there backgrounds that made the police take them seriously?

I can imagine in a high profile cold case like this, there is not many very possible leads. So even if some tip comes in that is perhaps even not at all that credible lets say the claim was they had groomed him etc and taken videos of him.

Maybe the person making the tip, is not at all that credible. But it probably still warrents serious investigation in terms of sezing the guys devices and so forth and just making sure. But it was clear from the way they were cleared that there was no chance they were involved.

Could easily just have been some kook or someone with a grudge that put in a false tip against them.

 

[tes1984]

The Met police are underfunded and understaffed. They have a continual bombardment of cases to deal with.

They don't arrest suspects in old missing persons cases unless they have some serious evidence or intelligence.

I think the police would definitely want to speak with the informant in person before perusing anything. No chance they went mad on a grudge/false tip.

 

[Zapoleon]

The Met police are underfunded and understaffed. They have a continual bombardment of cases to deal with.

They don't arrest suspects in old missing persons cases unless they have some serious evidence or intelligence.

I think the police would definitely want to speak with the informant in person before perusing anything. No chance they went mad on a grudge/false tip.

So you think if there was some kinda crazy person that came forward with a wild tale, they would not look into it further? especially if there was a claim they had videos on their phones or computers.

I think they would have to do the due diligence of atleast checking everything out.

That said my theory at the time the news broke of the arrests was that perhaps one of the had some kind of link to doncaster and thats why they thought it was worth checking out.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The police arrested two men, who were later cleared of any involvement. I wonder what it was in their backgrounds that made the police take them seriously as suspects

I also wonder about the POIs who were cleared; why did LE take the actions they did?

Surely LE sometimes receives false tips about Andrew's case, claiming so-and-so was involved. So for that tip to lead to formal questioning and seizing devices there had to be at least something "there," however small, IMO. I don't mean something indicating they were involved but something that made LE take a harder look, but JMO.

Andrew's father has indicated they are satisfied with the team currently in charge of his case. (Not the original team.)

 

[davidt]

It's a really fascinating case, but for me it boils down to young boy goes to Kings Cross and is never seen again.

The police arrested two men, who were later cleared of any involvement. I wonder what it was in their backgrounds that made the police take them seriously as suspects.

Pretty much this. Police don't know why he bunked off, why he went to London or whether any of that is directly connected to his ultimate disappearance. There's basically nothing to go on at all.

 

[davidt]

I think he would have been.

My school had the same system, and it was pretty well known. In the sense the school made clear they wanted your parents to inform them if you were not coming in that day. So they would avoid having to make a phone call to check on you.

Because in theory of course the whole system is made to create an early warning for the parents should something have happened. Its an emergency system, its not just done for the fun of it.

But of course in practice and in reality is doesn't really work like that.

I went to school the same time as Andrew so I dunno if it was a common safety thing that had been implemented at the time nation wide, it perhaps could have been though.

Just tragic in a way that there was that mistake and time was lost. In the end though I don't think it would have changed the outcome because he would have already been so far away by the time of any response to look for him.

It's only my opinion but I think he would have been aware of the system. Whether on the day in question he just didn't care or only bunked off at the last moment and just didn't think about it is another matter altogether.

 

[TheRockingRev]

I'm still in two minds as to whether Andrew travelled to London to meet someone / or he met someone there by chance. My gut says that he went to meet someone, and that person had already said that they would travel back together so hence the no return ticket.
There is the chance that he met someone who noticed a small, young looking lad and took advantage - but this seems very unlikely, and perhaps the only opportunity to do so may have been if Andrew had attended some event there. IMO it does point to him travelling to meet someone.

 

[davidt]

I'm still in two minds as to whether Andrew travelled to London to meet someone / or he met someone there by chance. My gut says that he went to meet someone, and that person had already said that they would travel back together so hence the no return ticket.
There is the chance that he met someone who noticed a small, young looking lad and took advantage - but this seems very unlikely, and perhaps the only opportunity to do so may have been if Andrew had attended some event there. IMO it does point to him travelling to meet someone.

It's entirely possible. The difficulty being the lack of any evidence. If Andrew did arrange to meet someone he left no trace and didn't breathe a word or drop a hint to anyone. That's what's so frustratingly difficult in this case. There's nothing solid to help.

 

[Zapoleon]

It's entirely possible. The difficulty being the lack of any evidence. If Andrew did arrange to meet someone he left no trace and didn't breathe a word or drop a hint to anyone. That's what's so frustratingly difficult in this case. There's nothing solid to help.

Yep, seems basically impossible now that there is any evidence that can lead somewhere. This is one of those confession or tip cases where someone has to come forward.

I always wonder with the computers and taht they removed from the school if they kept the data from that and if they have doubled checked it in the years since just to make sure nothing was missed.

 

[davidt]

I watched one of the myriad of documentaries on this case on YouTube earlier. Its the first time I've heard mention of the number of times Andrew walked home from school. I've no idea if it is correct but it said Andrew had walked home from school twice. It also said Andrew had been irritable in the days leading up to his disappearance and not just on the morning itself. Again no idea if that was correct.

 

[Zapoleon]

I think the walking home from school thing gets mixed up a lot I know for a long time because of wikipedia and that it was basically thought he walked home from school for weeks and weeks. I think His dad said in a youtube interview "The search for Andrew Gosden" by the seeking answers youtube channel that it was actually only one day he had walked home from school according to his dad his answer he gave was it was a good day with good weather so he just decided to walk home instead.

​

 

[davidt]

I think the walking home from school thing gets mixed up a lot I know for a long time because of wikipedia and that it was basically thought he walked home from school for weeks and weeks. I think His dad said in a youtube interview "The search for Andrew Gosden" by the seeking answers youtube channel that it was actually only one day he had walked home from school according to his dad his answer he gave was it was a good day with good weather so he just decided to walk home instead.

​

Done a bit more reading around. Some articles say Andrew walked home from school twice in the week before he disappeared and others say it was once, the Tuesday of the week before he disappeared. Either way it's not a lot and reduces, but not rules out, the chances of it being connected with his ultimate fate. Like most of this case there's nothing really you can be sure of.

 

[Inspector Evans]

I'm in my 40s so lived in a time before internet!

I meant how did he meet someone initially. If he was in school all day and home at evenings and weekends. A homebody it seems. When would he have had chance to meet someone and make plans to travel to London? Obviously these days we can talk to people from across the world from our homes, but back then it wasn't that easy.

MSN Messenger was huge in the mid 2000s. Used that to speak to friends online so perhaps he might've been able to contact someone hundreds of miles away in London.

Also internet chatrooms but then it was said he hardly used a computer for any of that at home or at school as I assume they tested out the PCs he used at School to detect if he was contacting someone.

He certainly went down to London to meet someone imo but no idea the reasons or timeline when he arrived at Kings Cross on that Friday lunchtime.

 

[Inspector Evans]

One other thing I was thinking about in terms of Andrews movements that day. The general feeling is that Andrew bunked off school that day in order to go to London (or somewhere else) for an unknown purpose. And that's quite likely exactly what happened.

However I think another scenario is worth considering. What if the events of that morning were entirely spontaneous? When woken that morning Andrew was said to be grumpy. Was he grumpy because of the thought of going to school? All we really know after that is that he apparently left home in the normal way on his way to school. At some point he turned around and eventually returned home. It's possible he made that decision on the spur of the moment. Then having bunked off he decides what he is going to do with the day and decides on a trip to London. He also empties his bank account for spending money to have a good time.

I think it makes some sense. He didn't buy a train ticket in advance, didn't breathe a word to anyone or give a hint or clue anywhere or leave anything behind to suggest what he was up to. Perhaps the reason for this was because he didn't plan anything and he literally just picked up and left? Of course none of this explains what eventually happened to Andrew. I don't know if Andrew ever had any problems at school or any other issues but I haven't see anything to suggest he did but that doesn't prove anything really.

Interesting theory but London is a long way from Donny. He could've just as easily gone to Leeds/Sheffield or even Manchester if he just wanted to bunk off School for the day and then get home for tea/dinner. London is a far bigger commitment to just want to go down and wander around.

My alternative theory is he was big into his music at the time as indicated by the t-shirt he was wearing when he arrived in London. I'd be interested to know how often on weekends and days off school he wore a t shirt of his favourite band. Did he wear it to parties or just going to shops/meals out with parents?

I say this because many who go to gigs or music festivals will obviously wear t shirts of favourite music bands or events they've been to, same as going to a football match and wearing a shirt of one of the teams playing.

From what I remember Sikth were playing 02 Academy Camden I think that Friday evening and that really isn't that long a walk away from Kings Cross. Think another EMO band were having a signing session at a HMV store perhaps in Oxford steet. I think his Dad has dismissed those links in subsequent interviews but if you didn't share the same music genre interest as your parents I'm not sure how interested he'd be in telling them about those bands.

It's possible he was perhaps desperate to go to the gig but knew his parents would say no so just went anyway. I was in London last month and got a train at half 8 from Euston so actually went into XC at 8pm to have at look at the departure boards and there are plenty of trains still going up to Doncaster after 10pm so late night travel back wouldn't have been an issue but why then did he just buy a single down to London?

Perhaps he was thinking of just befriending someone at a gig and staying with them but given how introverted he sounded that seems very unlikely.

Such a conflicting case but then him just deciding not to go to School and going down to London was out of character already so something had tempted him that day and he clearly went to great lengths to give the impression to his parents he was just going to School as normal that day given he waited for them to both leave before returning home to change.

He could've just told them he was ill and stayed in bed and then got up after they left for work for example?

 

[Inspector Evans]

But who's to say he bothered working it out? What I mean is, we may not be able to read too much into his decision to buy a single because he might have just thought 'I want to go to London' and not been concerned about whether there was a more cost-effective ticket available.

He had relatives in London so I presume he went down on the train with his family to visit them and was of an age where he needed a ticket to travel so I'm fairly sure he'd have known by then a return from Doncaster to London was significantly cheaper than two singles, especially purchasing them at the station compared to online where two singles can be cheaper for specific times.