UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Inspector Evans]

30 Seconds to Mars & Si'kth, 2 of Andrew's favourite bands had shows in London over that weekend. The concert CCTV of the audiences were studied but Andrew wasn't seen. Sadly I think he came to harm soon after his arrival.

Thanks, 30STM were the others but couldn't recall. I think he liked My Chemical Romance aswell who were huge and performing regularly at the time.

I struggle to think he came to harm just walking the streets. London may be dangerous but more in getting possessions like mobiles snatched. Or gang related shootings in the wrong areas but people just disappearing against their will isn't so common.

It was also mid September and a sunny day from the CCTV images so would've been light up to 7pm.

Perhaps he took the money out to go to one of the gigs but it was sold out so he couldn't get in and then wandered off and then things took a turn for the worst? Or even befriended a ticket tout who sense a horrible opportunity?

Weren't there eye witness accounts saying someone spotted matching his description was at a Pizza Hut in Oxford Street an hour or two later after the last CCTV image so if that was him it would indicate he wasn't in a huge rush and possibly an event that had made him go to London was happening early Evening?

 

[TheRockingRev]

Interesting theory but London is a long way from Donny. He could've just as easily gone to Leeds/Sheffield or even Manchester if he just wanted to bunk off School for the day and then get home for tea/dinner. London is a far bigger commitment to just want to go down and wander around.

Fully agree with you Inspector Evans - the distance is so telling. It had to be London that he needed/wanted to go to because of the distance away it was. Not forgetting as well the cost.

My alternative theory is he was big into his music at the time as indicated by the t-shirt he was wearing when he arrived in London. I'd be interested to know how often on weekends and days off school he wore a t shirt of his favourite band. Did he wear it to parties or just going to shops/meals out with parents?

I get the feeling, having seen various photos, that he probably wore them all the time. Not unusual for someone that age. I was massively into rock music at that age, and practically lived in my band tees.

I say this because many who go to gigs or music festivals will obviously wear t shirts of favourite music bands or events they've been to, same as going to a football match and wearing a shirt of one of the teams playing.

From what I remember Sikth were playing 02 Academy Camden I think that Friday evening and that really isn't that long a walk away from Kings Cross. Think another EMO band were having a signing session at a HMV store perhaps in Oxford steet. I think his Dad has dismissed those links in subsequent interviews but if you didn't share the same music genre interest as your parents I'm not sure how interested he'd be in telling them about those bands.

Although it's hard to know, these two events have always made me think that they could have something to do with it all. It could be coincidence, but it gives a reason for him to go to London, or for someone to get him to go to London.

It's possible he was perhaps desperate to go to the gig but knew his parents would say no so just went anyway. I was in London last month and got a train at half 8 from Euston so actually went into XC at 8pm to have at look at the departure boards and there are plenty of trains still going up to Doncaster after 10pm so late night travel back wouldn't have been an issue but why then did he just buy a single down to London?

Perhaps he was thinking of just befriending someone at a gig and staying with them but given how introverted he sounded that seems very unlikely.

I agree - his introverted nature wouldn't have seen him just befriend someone. Nor do I think he would've been the sort of youngster who would've enjoyed dossing down on someone's floor or sofa.

Such a conflicting case but then him just deciding not to go to School and going down to London was out of character already so something had tempted him that day and he clearly went to great lengths to give the impression to his parents he was just going to School as normal that day given he waited for them to both leave before returning home to change.

He could've just told them he was ill and stayed in bed and then got up after they left for work for example?

I guess the reason for that may be that he would've been worried that one of them may have stayed home, tried to take him to a doctor or come home/contacted him during the day.

 

[Inspector Evans]

One more thing for those on previous pages saying he only got a single ticket because he was expecting a lift back.

Again London to Doncaster up the M1 is a good three and a bit hours if not more given it would've been a Friday rush hour evening.

I doubt someone in London he perhaps vaguely knew would've just been o.k giving him a lift back up to Yorkshire and then had to come back down again, they'd have probably suggested getting a return ticket if they were in comms beforehand.

Or let's say the person in question had been befriend close to where he grew up, why wouldn't they meet somewhere in Donny or Sheffield if he wanted a day in London and travelled down in the car?

I think his actions suggests whoever his possible abductor could be would be someone based in the South really. Also not like he was trying to hide and cover his tracks travelling given he was visibly spotted at two major stations before the trial frustratingly runs cold.

He must've been in communication with someone just to give information on what time the train was coming, I reckon the PSP he was seen playing with on the train holds a clue there but never been located.

It's a case that always sticks in my mind due to seeing his face on posters at various train stations I travel to every few months. Poor thing.

 

[TheRockingRev]

One more thing for those on previous pages saying he only got a single ticket because he was expecting a lift back.

Again London to Doncaster up the M1 is a good three and a bit hours if not more given it would've been a Friday rush hour evening.

I doubt someone in London he perhaps vaguely knew would've just been o.k giving him a lift back up to Yorkshire and then had to come back down again, they'd have probably suggested getting a return ticket if they were in comms beforehand.

Well I think the return journey wasn't so much going to happen, but part of the ruse to lure Andrew there.

Or let's say the person in question had been befriend close to where he grew up, why wouldn't they meet somewhere in Donny or Sheffield if he wanted a day in London and travelled down in the car?

It could well be that although they may have been local, they may also have had connections in London. Especially if they were part of a bigger network. Although the other reason could well be that through grooming they were able to establish what appealed to Andrew - and that's where London comes into it. Bunking off (for a boy with a 100% attendance record) just to hang out may not have appealed to Andrew in the slightest. But the carrot on the stick of the events going on in London may well have been enough to get him to ditch school for the day.

I think his actions suggests whoever his possible abductor could be would be someone based in the South really. Also not like he was trying to hide and cover his tracks travelling given he was visibly spotted at two major stations before the trial frustratingly runs cold.

Oh I have no doubt he wasn't running away. In fact why take your keys if you are?

He must've been in communication with someone just to give information on what time the train was coming, I reckon the PSP he was seen playing with on the train holds a clue there but never been located.

It could be that this is a massive clue - but then again didn't Sony actually check against his account?

It's a case that always sticks in my mind due to seeing his face on posters at various train stations I travel to every few months. Poor thing.

 

[davidt]

Well I think the return journey wasn't so much going to happen, but part of the ruse to lure Andrew there.

It could well be that although they may have been local, they may also have had connections in London. Especially if they were part of a bigger network. Although the other reason could well be that through grooming they were able to establish what appealed to Andrew - and that's where London comes into it. Bunking off (for a boy with a 100% attendance record) just to hang out may not have appealed to Andrew in the slightest. But the carrot on the stick of the events going on in London may well have been enough to get him to ditch school for the day.

Oh I have no doubt he wasn't running away. In fact why take your keys if you are?

It could be that this is a massive clue - but then again didn't Sony actually check against his account?

Yep, Sony said the device had not been used to access the Internet. There always seems to be a brick wall in this case. Whatever ideas anyone has there's zero hard evidence of any particular scenario.

 

[tes1984]

I'm no expert in this case, so please excuse my ignorance, but what time was Andrew reported as missing by his parents?

Did he have enough time to go to London, and get back, with his parents none the wiser?

I know he should have been flagged for non attendance, but there was some kind of admin error.

Could AG have planned to have confessed to bunking off school, but still kept his London trip from his parents?

 

[tes1984]

Also hadn't he been to London before and stayed with relatives; or were his previous London trips family outings, with his parents?

 

[Inspector Evans]

Yep, Sony said the device had not been used to access the Internet. There always seems to be a brick wall in this case. Whatever ideas anyone has there's zero hard evidence of any particular scenario.

Bizarre. If they checked the computers he used at school even in the first week back and he apparently didn't even use a PC at home then I struggle to see how he'd have got any correspondence going with a potential groomer.

He clearly met someone in London but if it's a random person he didn't know that probably hints at why it is still a case with few leads nearly 20 years on so the police do have my sympathies on this one given he travelled well over two hundred miles south and then disappeared off the face of the earth so the answers perhaps aren't in the local community as with plenty of missing people's cases.

 

[Inspector Evans]

I'm no expert in this case, so please excuse my ignorance, but what time was Andrew reported as missing by his parents?

Did he have enough time to go to London, and get back, with his parents none the wiser?

I know he should have been flagged for non attendance, but there was some kind of admin error.

Could AG have planned to have confessed to bunking off school, but still kept his London trip from his parents?

I believe from what I remember his Dad said in interviews he got back from work 6ish, assumed Andrew was in his room and just pottered around downstairs.

Then Dinner was called, Andrew didn't show and then they discovered he wasn't in the house and missing so guess alarm was raised from 7pm.

Interesting the debate about school absences. I went to Secondary school between 2000-07 and if I was off my parents would have to phone up the school in the morning to report the absence. Then a note to my form tutor if I was off for a couple of days to explain.

I also worked for a few months at a specialist school in the admin department so had to contact parents if kids didn't turn up. Even though this was 2010 now it was still mainly house phones.

So probably alarm would've only been raised from 5pm if they'd had the right contact number for Andrew and left a message on the house phone.

When I have a free evening later on in the week I'll try to listen to any podcasts/YT vlogs his Dad has participated in just to get a clearer understanding again of the timeline of the day he went missing from his Father's POV. I'd welcome any recommendations on here for that.

If I had five minutes to interview his Dad I'd want to ask him more about the relatives close to London and how recently they had visited as all the reports in the years after just seemed to be vague and skim over how often he visited.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Bizarre. If they checked the computers he used at school even in the first week back and he apparently didn't even use a PC at home then I struggle to see how he'd have got any correspondence going with a potential groomer.

The answers could I think be narrowed down to someone at his school, someone close to the family - or potentially at the gifted pupil camp he went on the year before. It's worth remembering that it may not have needed a lot to groom him, and in fact there may have been time after school.

He clearly met someone in London but if it's a random person he didn't know that probably hints at why it is still a case with few leads nearly 20 years on so the police do have my sympathies on this one given he travelled well over two hundred miles south and then disappeared off the face of the earth so the answers perhaps aren't in the local community as with plenty of missing people's cases.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Someone actually at the school dosen't feel likely as their absence that Friday would've surely been noted. Unless it was someone who left the previous summer who Andrew trusted and confined in.

More likely the pupil camp but ultimately after all these years him meeting a complete stranger at some point in his journey and sadly coming to harm feels the most likely. Why and how it all occurred will I fear still be a complete mystery in a decade's time if he met someone who lived alone and didn't have much family/associates so fairly easy to keep things a secret.

 

[rosesfromangels]

When children disappear and aren’t found quickly, the outcome is predictably grim. However, in this case there is something that keeps niggling at my mind suggesting that this child is still alive. I wish I could put my finger on why I speculate this other than just a gut feeling. How I pray that I am right.

Amateur opinion and speculation only.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Someone actually at the school dosen't feel likely as their absence that Friday would've surely been noted. Unless it was someone who left the previous summer who Andrew trusted and confined in.

That's a very good point. Unless it was someone who had worked at the school in a non-permanent capacity. I know at my school we had maintenance staff, groundskeepers etc. who weren't there all the time. But I would think that had he had any kind of closer social interaction with anyone at the school then it would've been picked-up.

More likely the pupil camp but ultimately after all these years him meeting a complete stranger at some point in his journey and sadly coming to harm feels the most likely. Why and how it all occurred will I fear still be a complete mystery in a decade's time if he met someone who lived alone and didn't have much family/associates so fairly easy to keep things a secret.

It does seem a logical solution - but there are a couple of things that don't really add up. The sudden impulse to go to London. Ok, it may have been that he just wanted to go to a particular event, but it seems crazy that he would suddenly make a massive decision to change his routine so dramatically. But then again when we were younger we all did crazy impulsive things (I know I did).

The other thing is that he would fall foul of a predator. Now I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but this was central London and in the late summer. It would've been light until late and packed full of people. So being snatched off the street would be pretty impossible. He could've been enticed somewhere, but I get the feeling he wasn't stupid enough to have been taken in like that.
If it was that he met a complete stranger, then it would have likely have been at whatever event he wanted to go to London to attend. But the niggle comes back that was that something so important he would've ditched school for it?

Sadly the answers to this lie in so many different things - in Andrew's own thinking, where he went, who he knew, what secrets he had.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Yeah there were eyewitness accounts a young boy matching his description was seen eating at a Pizza Hut in I think Oxford Street an hour or two after he was last sighted on CCTV around Kings Cross so he successfully evaded an abduction just walking around London with hundreds of thousands people if that was a genuine sighting.

The answer is obviously what on earth happened to him from 5pm onwards as that's when you'd just go back home on the train but he clearly didn't. Where on earth did he spend that night as seemingly no one working in hotels/B&Bs on that evening encountered him trying to get a room otherwise they'd have surely remembered in the weeks after like the Doncaster station ticket person?

He took the money out for something else to pay for on top of the train ticket.

 

[TheRockingRev]

There's a few things which stand out to me:
1). The gifted programme that took place at Lancaster University the previous Summer - it was for two weeks. Did he meet someone here? Now although it was a year before, and he may not have had any contact with anyone afterwards, did that person somehow make themselves known to Andrew some timer later. Which leads me onto....

2). Has there ever been an account of what he got up to in the Summer holidays (which finished just 8 days before he disappeared). I'm guessing his parents were at work - would they be aware of what he had been doing every day for the 6 weeks of the holidays. Could he have met someone then - someone who he had previously known at the Gifted camp. Certainly predators once identified a victim can often play the long game. Or was it someone he knew who was local - someone connected to the church or scouts?
The reason I'm saying that it would be someone he knew of is because it is said that he was very intelligent, and therefore I don't think he would've struck up a friendship with a total stranger.

3). Was London a stop - did he then travel somewhere beyond later in the day? This is something we'll never know I guess. Although IMO this is unlikely.

4). People say if it was someone local then why go to London - well the answer could be in that, as I've previously mentioned, the person had links there, perhaps to a larger network of scum, or the events in London were the lure to get Andrew away from home.

5). Perhaps it was a stranger - a perfect example of this would be case of Martin Allen in 1979. Now I'm not suggesting that it was the same perpetrator, but maybe someone using the same M.O. In Martin's case he was led away from the Underground by someone who had restrained him. It is stated that he was able to do this, and not have Martin run away or shout for help, by pretending to be a policeman. Did someone use the same method on Andrew, and then take him away (although there are various conspiracy theories for Martin being linked to larger rings, I have heard credible evidence that this was a lone opportunist who took Martin not very far from where he was last seen. It's also said that what followed went further than the original plan).
Certainly youngsters are likely to be scared and comply with police than cause a scene.

Or is it that two unrelated events - Andrew deciding to do something different, and him meeting a predator, just happened to occur in a tragic combination of coincidences? Hopefully we'll one day find out the truth.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Yeah there were eyewitness accounts a young boy matching his description was seen eating at a Pizza Hut in I think Oxford Street an hour or two after he was last sighted on CCTV around Kings Cross so he successfully evaded an abduction just walking around London with hundreds of thousands people if that was a genuine sighting.

I have put another post on regarding him potentially meeting a stranger. But certainly a predator would also know that CCTV was rife, and therefore would've been more cautious. But then again, worryingly often people with these urges go on their impulses and don't worry about the consequences as much as feeding their desires.

The answer is obviously what on earth happened to him from 5pm onwards as that's when you'd just go back home on the train but he clearly didn't. Where on earth did he spend that night as seemingly no one working in hotels/B&Bs on that evening encountered him trying to get a room otherwise they'd have surely remembered in the weeks after like the Doncaster station ticket person?

That is the key time frame in this. Is it at this time that he moved away from central London. Did he go to Brixton to see the gig? Although not as bad as in the 80's, Brixton was still a rough and ready place in 2007, with a few dodgy housing estates around.
You're 100% right - hotels and B&Bs would've been out of the question. Many would've raised an alarm at a very young looking child (as Andrew was described) booking on his own. Although there is the argument that Andrew could've booked in somewhere and that wasn't reported because the establishment would've got in trouble for allowing it. Not too likely I guess though.

He took the money out for something else to pay for on top of the train ticket.

Possibly, or was he just covering himself. He didn't need a huge amount as he didn't take the cash from home. And I guess £200 seems a lot, but by the time he'd got a train ticket, pizza, maybe a drink etc. he would've burned through £50 already. There is is also the very small chance, and this is JMO, that he pressed an incorrect button and took £200 instead of a £100. Who knows though?

 

[Kittypoo]

I have put another post on regarding him potentially meeting a stranger. But certainly a predator would also know that CCTV was rife, and therefore would've been more cautious. But then again, worryingly often people with these urges go on their impulses and don't worry about the consequences as much as feeding their desires.

That is the key time frame in this. Is it at this time that he moved away from central London. Did he go to Brixton to see the gig? Although not as bad as in the 80's, Brixton was still a rough and ready place in 2007, with a few dodgy housing estates around.
You're 100% right - hotels and B&Bs would've been out of the question. Many would've raised an alarm at a very young looking child (as Andrew was described) booking on his own. Although there is the argument that Andrew could've booked in somewhere and that wasn't reported because the establishment would've got in trouble for allowing it. Not too likely I guess though.

Possibly, or was he just covering himself. He didn't need a huge amount as he didn't take the cash from home. And I guess £200 seems a lot, but by the time he'd got a train ticket, pizza, maybe a drink etc. he would've burned through £50 already. There is is also the very small chance, and this is JMO, that he pressed an incorrect button and took £200 instead of a £100. Who knows though?

I can’t help wondering if he was responding to a cry for help or sob story and handed the money over to someone else. Or the promise of a gig ticket as has been mentioned previously.
It has to be something extremely urgent sounding or enticing to a young teen to make him skip school as an 100% attendee
JMO

 

[TheRockingRev]

Reading through the various old posts, something else has crossed my mind - this is JMO and just throwing ideas out there.

It's said that Andrew was irritable on the morning he left. This does make me think that the reason for being so was because he had to skip school that day, and do something alien to him. Something that was quite a hassle actually with the changing of clothes, with drawing money, going to London etc.

Now whatever it was, was obviously important, and needed to be done on that day. Had he been doing it under his own steam, I think he wouldn't have bothered and instead gone to school as normal. There was a specific reason to do it - an event, a person - or both.

I do think that another person was involved. Did they lure him to London with the reason of there being an event? Or for some other reason.

I don't want to cast aspersions. But what if Andrew was gay? At 14 his sexuality would've been more clear to him - and being mature beyond his years he would've been very aware of it I'm sure. What if he met someone who understood that, who perhaps was gay themselves, who then cajoled him into going to London with almost blackmail. If Andrew was fighting these feelings, he may have been aware that in 2007 coming out was tough (even more so than in 2025) and he may not have had anyone else to talk to. But if he met someone, someone who understood, someone who he could talk to - what if they got him to go to London? What if they used the excuse of cutting him off, walking away. It would left Andrew lost, stranded, with no-one to talk to. And that worry may have been enough to sway him to go to London. It would account for the irritability. Not wanting to go - but not having a choice.

Before anyone says - I don't anyone was blackmailing Andrew to out him, nor am I suggesting that being gay is linked to nefarious acts,. Perpetrators come from all walks of life and will use whatever means are at their disposal.

 

[Sjöberg]

That's a detaill, but in regards to the irritability in the morning, I've thought if that indicates a backstory:
* a lack of sleep for reasons connected to the trip (somehow communicating with the person during the night)
* a change of plans - such as originally the person said they'd come and meet him and then presented a story as to why they cannot and that he should come to London instead

 

[TheRockingRev]

That's a detaill, but in regards to the irritability in the morning, I've thought if that indicates a backstory:
* a lack of sleep for reasons connected to the trip (somehow communicating with the person during the night)
* a change of plans - such as originally the person said they'd come and meet him and then presented a story as to why they cannot and that he should come to London instead

I like both of those - I hadn't thought that, but both would logically make sense. The only thing that is the big question mark is how was he communicating with them? It could be, as long rumoured, he had a mobile phone. Either one he 'lost' or one given to him by someone else.