UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[TheRockingRev]

Interesting quote from Andrew's father in an interview: "We have always been in touch with and regularly visited wider family and Andrew was familiar with London as most of my family live in London suburbs."

Could he have gone to travel to see family after a day in central London (killing time until they were home from work etc.) but on his way made the fatal error of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not sure if 2025 is worse, but certainly there were housing estates in London in 2007 you wouldn't have wanted to have veered into if you were an outsider. Being small he wouldn't have stood much of a chance against a gang of youths. Mugging goes too far?
Travelling to see family makes sense - it would certainly explain a lack of a return ticket. But the things that don't add up for the above:
1). Lack of witnesses and a body
2). The big one - why go to London so spontaneously? Surely if he had wanted to, he could've waited a day and asked to go at the weekend. Even the idea of going on an adventure doesn't weigh up against the trouble he would've been in with his parents and the school.

 

[tes1984]

Being small he wouldn't have stood much of a chance against a gang of youths. Mugging goes too far?
Travelling to see family makes sense - it would certainly explain a lack of a return ticket. But the things that don't add up for the above:
1). Lack of witnesses and a body
2). The big one - why go to London so spontaneously? Surely if he had wanted to, he could've waited a day and asked to go at the weekend. Even the idea of going on an adventure doesn't weigh up against the trouble he would've been in with his parents and the school.

I can't see a gang of youths making a body disappear. IIRC the men arrested recently were in their 20s when Andrew vanished.

If he knew he would be in trouble then perhaps going to London was a cry for help. A big gesture to let his parents know that he was being bullied and wanted to leave school, or something like that?

 

[Hunter2_1]

I’ve seen a lot of posts about the difficulty of communicating back then online, and “what ever did we do back then” type posts.

I started uni in Sept 07, and I distinctly remember communicating with people around the world who were coming to the same uni. Building relationships online before meeting in person, arranging house viewings etc. it wasn’t much different back then on a computer, but smart phones weren’t really a thing then.

I also remember, in my teenage years, going on my dad’s PC and chatting to people on MSN or going on the internet (it was a thing…and I’m older than Andrew), and then just deleting the history. I’m not sure if the family PC has been checked but surely it has? I’m also not sure if wiping the history means it’s untraceable? Maybe some IT people on board can help there.

So, I think it is very possible that Andrew communicated with someone and could have been led by a contact online or arranged to meet someone online and maintained regular communication - I did it with people at exactly the same time. The only difference to now being that Whatssap and instant chat on smart phones wasn’t really a thing then. It’s arrange and then meet.

 

[Hunter2_1]

This is really frustrating because apparently London is the city most covered by surveillance cameras in the world, and KX is one of the busiest terminals in London. I find it hard to believe he wasn’t on any other CCTV after this. And if the sighting at Pizza Hut was in fact Andrew, he’s got to be on camera then as well.

 

[Inspector Evans]

This is really frustrating because apparently London is the city most covered by surveillance cameras in the world, and KX is one of the busiest terminals in London. I find it hard to believe he wasn’t on any other CCTV after this. And if the sighting at Pizza Hut was in fact Andrew, he’s got to be on camera then as well.

The CCTV was only checked a week or so later wasn't it? CCTV in other areas just ahead of XC/Euston were wiped. Perhaps if the police had known earlier he was going to London (think the eye witness ticket seller only came forward 4-5 days after that Friday) they could've alerted the Met and then you think we might've got a trail of where he then went at least half an hour-one hour later and started to build a timeline that may have jogged more memories?

Instead it's just one release of him walking out of XC and with respect you forget within seconds which strangers are around you when you walk out of a big train station.

 

[Lucy6226]

I’ve seen a lot of posts about the difficulty of communicating back then online, and “what ever did we do back then” type posts.

I started uni in Sept 07, and I distinctly remember communicating with people around the world who were coming to the same uni. Building relationships online before meeting in person, arranging house viewings etc. it wasn’t much different back then on a computer, but smart phones weren’t really a thing then.

I also remember, in my teenage years, going on my dad’s PC and chatting to people on MSN or going on the internet (it was a thing…and I’m older than Andrew), and then just deleting the history. I’m not sure if the family PC has been checked but surely it has? I’m also not sure if wiping the history means it’s untraceable? Maybe some IT people on board can help there.

So, I think it is very possible that Andrew communicated with someone and could have been led by a contact online or arranged to meet someone online and maintained regular communication - I did it with people at exactly the same time. The only difference to now being that Whatssap and instant chat on smart phones wasn’t really a thing then. It’s arrange and then meet.

I think the issue is that Andrew was reported to had no access to the internet. The family home didn't have internet iirc. His PSP wasn't connected online either. Not that the internet wasn't available, just he didn't access.

So the issue is without internet connection how did he potentially meet someone?

Clearly something happened in London, but it could have been a complete random stranger. Remember Andrew was small for his age also.

 

[tes1984]

Is this a missing person enquiry, or a murder investigation?

 

[Hunter2_1]

Is this a missing person enquiry, or a murder investigation?

Misper for now

 

[davidt]

Lots of interesting comments which only goes to show how difficult this case is.

Because so little is known it's nigh on impossible for the police to make any progress unless they stumble across something or someone comes forward. Unfortunately we don't know if Andrew's disappearance is directly connected with the reason he went to Lonfon or if something completely random happened whilst he was there. No one knows if Andrew accomplished whatever he went to do or whether something else happened instead.

I'd like to know why the two men arrested were linked to Andrew. They were arrested with regards to human trafficking and I recall the police were going to examine a number of devices. They were released without charge but it would be interesting to know what the original link was all about.

Ultimately Andrew could have gone to London for any number of reasons and there's no way currently of eliminating any of them for certain. It's the lack of virtually any meaningful information that is so frustrating. We just know about a few things he did that day, but nothing at all about why.

 

[davidt]

I think the issue is that Andrew was reported to had no access to the internet. The family home didn't have internet iirc. His PSP wasn't connected online either. Not that the internet wasn't available, just he didn't access.

So the issue is without internet connection how did he potentially meet someone?

Clearly something happened in London, but it could have been a complete random stranger. Remember Andrew was small for his age also.

It does seem difficult. Problem with either Internet access and access to a mobile phone is that essentially its trying to prove a negative. How can anyone know for certain he didn't have access somewhere? Otherwise there's the couple of times he walked home from school where possibly he could have seen someone. Or perhaps through the church before he stopped going. Generally though it seems there were limited opportunities for him to have built a relationship and if he did, not a soul had an inkling about it.

 

[nippernipper]

Hello, this is my first contribution ever on WebSleuths. I've known this case since it happened as many of us do, and many things still niggle at me. However I'm a big believer that often the simplest explanations are the most accurate.

1. Andrew's father stated that his behaviour was different in the weeks leading up to the trip to London, that he was more closed off and starting walking home from school. This suggests to me that there was definitely something happening prior to going missing. That this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

2. Andrew started walking home from school. Was he walking home to justify coming home later in the evenings? Was he walking by himself or with anyone else? Did something happen on the bus even? Why was he walking in the first place? In a missing person case, any change to routine prior to going missing is extremely significant.

3. The buying of a one way ticket doesn't strike me as particularly significant. Andrew was deaf in one ear and could've not heard or misheard the ticket seller, and without thinking refused her offer. Andrew's dad also said that they often bought single tickets.

4. Not bringing a jacket or the PSP Charger - again, doesn't strike me as particularly significant. It was still summer and a sunny day. The charger could've been forgotten or not included in his packing because he thought he wouldn't be away for long.

5. Meeting someone could've happened at any point. I think parents can be naive about their kids' activities and social life. He could've met anybody during the time they weren't with him, especially during the hours after school and before they were home.

6. I know this has been mentioned before and I'm not pointing the finger at anybody. But the last person to see Andrew before he went missing (the last person known to Andrew) was the Vicar. If the Vicar was such a good friend of the family, why didn't he approach Andrew and ask him what he was doing in the park? He could've missed the bus or have some sort of issue he needed help with. It just seems very strange that he happened to be the last person known to Andrew to have seen him.

 

[BethAnn777]

It’s big time wishful thinking on my part, but did police worldwide ever put out a message about asking for any home videos for the date Andrew went missing? London is a tourist town and perhaps he was caught on someone’s home movies? There has to more footage out there somewhere. What about businesses in the area? Did any have their own videos that didn’t get copied over so quickly? Maybe there is still a business anywhere in the vicinity that still has video footage from that date.

 

[nippernipper]

It’s big time wishful thinking on my part, but did police worldwide ever put out a message about asking for any home videos for the date Andrew went missing? London is a tourist town and perhaps he was caught on someone’s home movies? There has to more footage out there somewhere. What about businesses in the area? Did any have their own videos that didn’t get copied over so quickly? Maybe there is still a business anywhere in the vicinity that still has video footage from that date.

Yes I think they did, because after having considered this possibility myself, I started looking online for photos of that day, and came across several people commenting on their albums that the police had asked for those photos or any more photos they had of that day.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If the Vicar was such a good friend of the family, why didn't he approach Andrew and ask him what he was doing in the park

I don't have the Impression the Vicar was close but rather saw from a distance. Perhaps he didn't think much about it, since the park wasn't far from Andrew's house.

I do wonder if passing that park where he saw Andrew was his normal routine or a one-off though. And whether Andrew spotted him passing by. I can't see how it's related to the case anyway, though, since Andrew continued alone to London.

 

[Inspector Evans]

It’s big time wishful thinking on my part, but did police worldwide ever put out a message about asking for any home videos for the date Andrew went missing? London is a tourist town and perhaps he was caught on someone’s home movies? There has to more footage out there somewhere. What about businesses in the area? Did any have their own videos that didn’t get copied over so quickly? Maybe there is still a business anywhere in the vicinity that still has video footage from that date.

I think it was discounted years back but that very weekend there was a Youtube gaming convention in one of the London parks:

Grainy given it was shot in 2007 but comments below mentioning someone looks similar to Andrew Gosden so that type of event could've tempted him down. Then again if they say he didn't have much online presence, perhaps not.

This was event for young people in his age range happening in London at the time regardless.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Hello, this is my first contribution ever on WebSleuths. I've known this case since it happened as many of us do, and many things still niggle at me. However I'm a big believer that often the simplest explanations are the most accurate.

Welcome and thank you for a great first post

1. Andrew's father stated that his behaviour was different in the weeks leading up to the trip to London, that he was more closed off and starting walking home from school. This suggests to me that there was definitely something happening prior to going missing. That this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

2. Andrew started walking home from school. Was he walking home to justify coming home later in the evenings? Was he walking by himself or with anyone else? Did something happen on the bus even? Why was he walking in the first place? In a missing person case, any change to routine prior to going missing is extremely significant.

There's conflicting reports about how many times Andrew walked home from school. But perhaps what is more significant is that just a couple of weeks beforehand he had been off school for the summer holidays. That would've been 6 weeks. With his parents presumably at work, would they know what he was doing. He could've quite easily been talking to someone in those 6 weeks, meeting up, becoming friendly. Those times may not seem significant on their own, but combined with the idea that it was a culmination of greater interaction - they are. Was it because he missed having carefree days of the holidays to meet this new friend the reason he walked home on those days? Was it because they couldn't see each other as regularly the catalyst for Andrew wanting to take a day off and spend another completely free day with his friend?

3. The buying of a one way ticket doesn't strike me as particularly significant. Andrew was deaf in one ear and could've not heard or misheard the ticket seller, and without thinking refused her offer. Andrew's dad also said that they often bought single tickets.

This is going to be one of the ones that will drive us all mad. It's such a small, small thing, but can change the whole narrative of the story. IMO the return ticket is because he thought he would be returning that night perhaps in a lift in a car. But JMO. Like I say it's something so small but that makes a big, big difference

4. Not bringing a jacket or the PSP Charger - again, doesn't strike me as particularly significant. It was still summer and a sunny day. The charger could've been forgotten or not included in his packing because he thought he wouldn't be away for long.

Absolutely. I think what it does prove though is that he wasn't running away. He definitely thought he'd be returning.

5. Meeting someone could've happened at any point. I think parents can be naive about their kids' activities and social life. He could've met anybody during the time they weren't with him, especially during the hours after school and before they were home.

Exactly - I think his movements in the 6 week summer holidays are very important.

6. I know this has been mentioned before and I'm not pointing the finger at anybody. But the last person to see Andrew before he went missing (the last person known to Andrew) was the Vicar. If the Vicar was such a good friend of the family, why didn't he approach Andrew and ask him what he was doing in the park? He could've missed the bus or have some sort of issue he needed help with. It just seems very strange that he happened to be the last person known to Andrew to have seen him.

 

[TheRockingRev]

I think it was discounted years back but that very weekend there was a Youtube gaming convention in one of the London parks:

Grainy given it was shot in 2007 but comments below mentioning someone looks similar to Andrew Gosden so that type of event could've tempted him down. Then again if they say he didn't have much online presence, perhaps not.

This was event for young people in his age range happening in London at the time regardless.

Certainly it could've been something he was interested in. Does anyone know how this event was promoted? I'm guessing Youtube (obviously!) but id so is there any records of likes / comments on posts for it that Andrew may have been involved in? It could be he was interested in it - or maybe someone asked him if he wanted to go along.

 

[TheRockingRev]

The CCTV was only checked a week or so later wasn't it? CCTV in other areas just ahead of XC/Euston were wiped. Perhaps if the police had known earlier he was going to London (think the eye witness ticket seller only came forward 4-5 days after that Friday) they could've alerted the Met and then you think we might've got a trail of where he then went at least half an hour-one hour later and started to build a timeline that may have jogged more memories?

Yep this is sadly one of those awful coincidences of fate where they were so slow in investigating, that everything had been wiped. If the story wasn't bleak enough, it turns even worse when you realise that so much more could've been gleamed had that CCTV footage still been in existence.

Instead it's just one release of him walking out of XC and with respect you forget within seconds which strangers are around you when you walk out of a big train station.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Certainly it could've been something he was interested in. Does anyone know how this event was promoted? I'm guessing Youtube (obviously!) but id so is there any records of likes / comments on posts for it that Andrew may have been involved in? It could be he was interested in it - or maybe someone asked him if he wanted to go along.

I do get the feeling possibly someone in a class or his year at School might've mentioned the event in passing (even if he kept himself to himself at School he'd still have talked to others about relatively common interests).

So he thought to himself why not go down to London and get involved? However that event was held over the weekend so not sure why if he was going to it he'd go down on the Friday morning.

When you scan through the video there are plenty of males there with Andrew's look and profile and fits his interests as there are people there with band shirts on etc.

I presume though the Met have already conducted research into that even as the YT has been up for over 17 years now so it is well known that was an event for teenagers in London to meet up.

What was it about that Friday morning? Why not a Monday or other days of the week as his parents would be at work those days I think so same procedure of getting up compared to a Saturday or Sunday.

Perhaps he was going to make a weekend of things with someone else but then he'd have surely known his parents would've raised the alarm at some point later that Friday evening?

 

[TheRockingRev]

I do get the feeling possibly someone in a class or his year at School might've mentioned the event in passing (even if he kept himself to himself at School he'd still have talked to others about relatively common interests).

So he thought to himself why not go down to London and get involved? However that event was held over the weekend so not sure why if he was going to it he'd go down on the Friday morning.

When you scan through the video there are plenty of males there with Andrew's look and profile and fits his interests as there are people there with band shirts on etc.

I presume though the Met have already conducted research into that even as the YT has been up for over 17 years now so it is well known that was an event for teenagers in London to meet up.

What was it about that Friday morning? Why not a Monday or other days of the week as his parents would be at work those days I think so same procedure of getting up compared to a Saturday or Sunday.

Perhaps he was going to make a weekend of things with someone else but then he'd have surely known his parents would've raised the alarm at some point later that Friday evening?

It is one of the most frustrating aspects of this case - knowing what exactly was so important about London.

JMO - I don't think it was the Youtube event that was important to him. I think it was either one of the concerts on the Friday or another completely unknown reason. If it was the Youtube event then I would say he went with someone else - otherwise I can't see any reason why he wouldn't have gone at the weekend with his parents permission (certainly it seems they were happy for him to visit London on his own in the weeks of the school holidays). Also the Youtube event seems a bit too social for a boy who was described as an introvert (I know concerts are social - but actually you can stand at a concert and be on your own, enjoy the music and not socialise with anyone else if you choose not to)

IMO there was someone/something specific to that Friday. The question of course is what?