UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Grouse]

I don’t have the receipt for this to hand, but I’m absolutely certain that people have posted here before confirmation from Andrew’s dad that him walking home and not taking the bus was only known to have happened once. Not multiple times in the days prior to disappearing. (Again I guess that doesn’t mean it hadn’t happened more often, but the quote was to the effect that his dad was home earlier than expected, and got home before Andrew did, so encountered him coming in from The walk not the bus. And Andrew said he had walked home because it was a nice day. I still think this is suss and that it wasn’t the full story, but just wanted to correct the belief that it had happened multiple times (that we know of) because it’s one of those things that is often misquoted.

Yes that's a fair point, think this was discussed ages ago but I didn't check back through the thread. I agree the "nice day" seems suspect but we don't know and it might just have been that.

If there had been some bullying that had kicked off that week it might just have spurred him on to make the decision to skip school on the friday and do something a bit impulsive instead. I remember one boy at my school who was bullied badly and they used to always save the worst of it for fridays after school to make him dread the weekend coming

 

[vagab0nd]

Yes that's a fair point, think this was discussed ages ago but I didn't check back through the thread. I agree the "nice day" seems suspect but we don't know and it might just have been that.

If there had been some bullying that had kicked off that week it might just have spurred him on to make the decision to skip school on the friday and do something a bit impulsive instead. I remember one boy at my school who was bullied badly and they used to always save the worst of it for fridays after school to make him dread the weekend coming

When I think about the warm weather comment my first thought is of 9/11. That day felt like spring. It was warm and you wouldn't be able to tell that fall/winter was around the corner. Majority of Americans had no idea the events that would unfold that morning. It was pure chaos. So when the parents say he walked home because it was nice I don't think much of it.

I also agree that people make rash decisions. The poison seller is a hot topic at the moment. One of his victims was 28 years old. He was served divorce papers by his wife and instead of signing the papers he swallowed the poison and ended his life. It's very tragic, but one event can lead to someone making a very bad decision. This man was known to have had a loving relationship with his wife (he moved abroad for her) and she remarried the same year he died, lost custody of her two children, and is pregnant with another with her new husband, and just got a book deal. We can never really know someone truly.

 

[Deadbeat]

I still wonder if Andrew had got into a situation where he risked more trouble if he didn’t go to London. I wonder about him potentially being extorted for imagery and trying to go to London to pay someone off in cash or to convince them not to go through with it.

This is a very interesting theory. Perhaps he was being blackmailed in some way. I remember seeing a documentary about teenage boys sending images to what they thought was a female of similar age, which turned out to be older males who would then blackmail them, basically pay up or they post the images EVERYWHERE .

 

[vagab0nd]

This is a very interesting theory. Perhaps he was being blackmailed in some way. I remember seeing a documentary about teenage boys sending images to what they thought was a female of similar age, which turned out to be older males who would then blackmail them, basically pay up or they post the images EVERYWHERE .

Was blackmailing kids a common thing in 2007? I've only heard of it in recent years with smartphones.

 

[vagab0nd]

<modsnip> Not sure if related, but hope the family gets the closure they need: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...e-over-human-remains-found-near-rural-village

 

[Cardgame]

<modsnip> Not sure if related, but hope the family gets the closure they need: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...e-over-human-remains-found-near-rural-village

You think he made it back to the local area after all? I have wondered this myself before.

I think I've said this before too but I've often wondered if the reason he bought a one way ticket is because he was travelling off peak in the morning but knew he would be returning peak time. Outbound peak travel from London begins at around 3pm and lasts until about 7pm approximately, so on a day trip, especially if you wanted to make it appear that you had been to school, you would need to return on a more expensive single ticket.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

<modsnip> Not sure if related, but hope the family gets the closure they need: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...e-over-human-remains-found-near-rural-village

The article says "historic" remains found, so they are probably quite a few decades old. IMO.

 

[vagab0nd]

You think he made it back to the local area after all? I have wondered this myself before.

I think I've said this before too but I've often wondered if the reason he bought a one way ticket is because he was travelling off peak in the morning but knew he would be returning peak time. Outbound peak travel from London begins at around 3pm and lasts until about 7pm approximately, so on a day trip, especially if you wanted to make it appear that you had been to school, you would need to return on a more expensive single ticket.

There is no evidence to say he made it back to the Yorkshire area or if he stayed in London. It's just wild that historic remains have been found an hour from the area that he grew up and lived in. I'm sure there's plenty of other missing people from that are, but it's still interesting to note.

 

[KathPlumber]

Was blackmailing kids a common thing in 2007? I've only heard of it in recent years with smartphones.

I definitely knew of it happening around that time between adults

 

[KathPlumber]

U

The article says "historic" remains found, so they are probably quite a few decades old. IMO.

Yeah I felt they emphasised that too
especially knowing the UK dug up the body of one of their literal historic kings a few years ago it could be oooold.
But my hope is that it’s one of the many UK missing persons from the last century

 

[Deadbeat]

Was blackmailing kids a common thing in 2007? I've only heard of it in recent years with smartphones.

I can’t say for certain but I feel like it’s maybe been a thing since the early days of Webcams. I recall watching a segment about this type of blackmailing scam on Crimewatch UK many years ago. One poor teenager ended his own life due to threats his pictures would be shared online to his socials unless he paid the scammers some ridiculous amount of money.

This of course could be way off with regards to Andrew but I still think it’s a possibility if he WAS using chat rooms at the time. Although there’s no proof or digital trace saying he even was.

 

[vagab0nd]

I can’t say for certain but I feel like it’s maybe been a thing since the early days of Webcams. I recall watching a segment about this type of blackmailing scam on Crimewatch UK many years ago. One poor teenager ended his own life due to threats his pictures would be shared online to his socials unless he paid the scammers some ridiculous amount of money.

This of course could be way off with regards to Andrew but I still think it’s a possibility if he WAS using chat rooms at the time. Although there’s no proof or digital trace saying he even was.

He didn't own a webcam nor did anyone in his household. Nokia bricks couldn't send pictures, but flip phones could like my Motorola Razr or my LGVX6000. It cost like £1.70 per MMS message though so it was incredibly expensive. I don't think it's noted anywhere that he had that type of phone so it's possible, but not very likely.

 

[KathPlumber]

He didn't own a webcam nor did anyone in his household. Nokia bricks couldn't send pictures, but flip phones could like my Motorola Razr or my LGVX6000. It cost like £1.70 per MMS message though so it was incredibly expensive. I don't think it's noted anywhere that he had that type of phone so it's possible, but not very likely.

I was teaching primary in 2007 and classes all had access to digital cameras. I’m remembering now issue with kids sending photos via email and lowkey bullying each other by uploading photos of other kids to educational Wiki pages … we were so bad at teaching kids about digital footprints and online safety honestly it’s no wonder things went the way they have with the Internet for that generation.

I’m far from convinced that anything like this actually happened but I have to remind myself that it WAS a weird in between time in terms of access to online communication at schools and elsewhere and not, As someone said above, the actual dark ages. IMO

 

[vagab0nd]

I was teaching primary in 2007 and classes all had access to digital cameras. I’m remembering now issue with kids sending photos via email and lowkey bullying each other by uploading photos of other kids to educational Wiki pages … we were so bad at teaching kids about digital footprints and online safety honestly it’s no wonder things went the way they have with the Internet for that generation.

I’m far from convinced that anything like this actually happened but I have to remind myself that it WAS a weird in between time in terms of access to online communication at schools and elsewhere and not, As someone said above, the actual dark ages. IMO

Growing up in the 90s was a wild time. I started year 1 in 1996. At that time my school had already phased out thesauruses. We were being taught how to type and how to use Dogpile, Webcrawler, and Yahoo to find information. We had textbooks, but computer classes were commonplace. We were taught the Microsoft Office suite at age 6 onwards. Bullying through instant messenger and chatrooms was quite common, but by high school in 2004-2007 it drifted off and kids don't doing that. Every school is different, but technology definitely changed how kids did things. There's so many ways to bully someone that not everyone may be aware of how it happens.

 

[KathPlumber]

Growing up in the 90s was a wild time. I started year 1 in 1996. At that time my school had already phased out thesauruses. We were being taught how to type and how to use Dogpile, Webcrawler, and Yahoo to find information. We had textbooks, but computer classes were commonplace. We were taught the Microsoft Office suite at age 6 onwards. Bullying through instant messenger and chatrooms was quite common, but by high school in 2004-2007 it drifted off and kids don't doing that. Every school is different, but technology definitely changed how kids did things. There's so many ways to bully someone that not everyone may be aware of how it happens.

Yep bullying is fiendishly difficult to identify and yet its ever-present, so it’s a constant battle as a teacher to keep on top of it (and most schools are bad at it).

 

[Inspector Evans]

He didn't own a webcam nor did anyone in his household. Nokia bricks couldn't send pictures, but flip phones could like my Motorola Razr or my LGVX6000. It cost like £1.70 per MMS message though so it was incredibly expensive. I don't think it's noted anywhere that he had that type of phone so it's possible, but not very likely.

His school obviously had computers in the library and other places. If he was getting bullied I'm sure he'd have been one of those kids finding the library to go to as safe space at breaks/lunch rather than the playground/field.

However if they checked his usage and found nothing bar schoolwork it does get odd.

 

[Cardgame]

Out of all the Flickr photos peoole have shared this one looks the most like Andrew:

https://flic.kr/p/379YRM

though it's hard to be certain. I'm surprised people haven't found any more beyond the dates of 2007.

I missed this before, what's the story of this photo?

It definitely looks like Andrew to me, and Camden would make a lot of sense in terms of a place he might plan to go.

In those days Camden was a destination place for any teenager wanting to shop for grungy, affordable, music related clothing and accessories. Nowadays everything there is available online and overpriced in store, but back then it was definitely the kind of place you'd want to head to do some shopping to get hold of stuff you couldn't get elsewhere.

To me this would make sense of the withdrawal of cash, because lots of the market stalls only took cash.

And it would be a reasonable plan to make to go in and out in a day.

Very accessible from kings cross.

And, crucially, super busy at weekends, so much better to go during the week.

As well as this, I can imagine then - as now - plenty of shady characters hanging around. Very possible to get chatting to the wrong person.

Even if this photo isn't Andrew, for me him planning a trip into Camden makes total sense.

 

[vagab0nd]

His school obviously had computers in the library and other places. If he was getting bullied I'm sure he'd have been one of those kids finding the library to go to as safe space at breaks/lunch rather than the playground/field.

However if they checked his usage and found nothing bar schoolwork it does get odd.

But would he have been allowed to use them during lunch? My school had a policy that you could only use the computer lab during class time if the teacher had booked it out for the class. You were not allowed to use them after school. If you were too poor to have a computer at home then you had to rely on friends or family. I know every school is different, but you never know what kinds of rules his had.

 

[vagab0nd]

I missed this before, what's the story of this photo?

It definitely looks like Andrew to me, and Camden would make a lot of sense in terms of a place he might plan to go.

In those days Camden was a destination place for any teenager wanting to shop for grungy, affordable, music related clothing and accessories. Nowadays everything there is available online and overpriced in store, but back then it was definitely the kind of place you'd want to head to do some shopping to get hold of stuff you couldn't get elsewhere.

To me this would make sense of the withdrawal of cash, because lots of the market stalls only took cash.

And it would be a reasonable plan to make to go in and out in a day.

Very accessible from kings cross.

And, crucially, super busy at weekends, so much better to go during the week.

As well as this, I can imagine then - as now - plenty of shady characters hanging around. Very possible to get chatting to the wrong person.

Even if this photo isn't Andrew, for me him planning a trip into Camden makes total sense.

No idea what the story is behind this photo. It was taken on the 14th of Sept 07. Just looks like someone took a photo of the street while sitting in a cafe window or similar. You can see a window reflection. A post on Reddit said the original user once removed this photo because they got too many questions from strangers asking about Andrew. This photo has been shared all over Tiktok when talking about Andrew. I think someone just snapped a photo and put a B&W filter on it and called it artsy. They probably didn't realise who they were capturing.


Now this video is circulating of YouTube comments thinking some guy in this prank video is Andrew at 26s mark:

I just don't see it.



If Andrew was going shopping in Camden then it makes less sense that he would go to London to unalive himself. Who buys vinyl and shirts and pin badges or whatever when they know that they will end their life after? It's gotta be foul play, but who really knows. The Camden area at night is quite dark, but even so it's quite loud so I think you'd definitely be able to hear something.

 

[beubeubeu]

Was blackmailing kids a common thing in 2007? I've only heard of it in recent years with smartphones.

Hard to say how common, but chats and emails were already widely used while any sort of legal protection was non existent or next to no existent. Cant imagine predators not using that. Additionally people were fast to blame the victim of such blackmail, not caring about the circumstances, lies and manipulation. "If you didnt wanted your nudes all around the internet you would never took them ha ha ha".
Wasnt it kinda around the time when one of these (then already adult but still young) singing-acting child stars (i think Lindsay Lohan but im not sure) got assaulted by her boyfriend (?) and she was running away half naked and despite of some people witnessing that and paparazzi being there nobody gave her anything to cover herself, instead they kept taking pics, then these pics were everywhere and she was mocked by the media and public NOT the guy who attacked her.
Worth noting that british tabloids were just totally ruthless to people, so much worse than in US, Canada or other European countries.They had zero mercy on people and most articles included full doxing. Pictures, home address, school, place of employment... everything. Maybe they wouldnt do that to a minor - maybe.

But in this scenario young boy would likely feel totally hopeless and might try to do anything to stop his life from falling apart even against his better judgement and fear to meet with someone whos blackmailing him.