UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[vagab0nd]

Hard to say how common, but chats and emails were already widely used while any sort of legal protection was non existent or next to no existent. Cant imagine predators not using that. Additionally people were fast to blame the victim of such blackmail, not caring about the circumstances, lies and manipulation. "If you didnt wanted your nudes all around the internet you would never took them ha ha ha".
Wasnt it kinda around the time when one of these (then already adult but still young) singing-acting child stars (i think Lindsay Lohan but im not sure) got assaulted by her boyfriend (?) and she was running away half naked and despite of some people witnessing that and paparazzi being there nobody gave her anything to cover herself, instead they kept taking pics, then these pics were everywhere and she was mocked by the media and public NOT the guy who attacked her.
Worth noting that british tabloids were just totally ruthless to people, so much worse than in US, Canada or other European countries.They had zero mercy on people and most articles included full doxing. Pictures, home address, school, place of employment... everything. Maybe they wouldnt do that to a minor - maybe.

But in this scenario young boy would likely feel totally hopeless and might try to do anything to stop his life from falling apart even against his better judgement and fear to meet with someone whos blackmailing him.

That makes sense, but there was no email address found for Andrew. You'd expect him to at least have one to send these pictures or to be targeted. There's just nothing to speculate this is possible and all the teachers/staff from NAGTY seem so heartbroken over his disappeance so it makes it even more bizarre. The group he was in have their own reunion group on Facebook so it appears they were quite close in the friends/like brothers and sisters way. I just can't wrap my head around how he could have some secret internet life. I work in tech and have seen some things, but never anything like this.

 

[vagab0nd]

I missed this before, what's the story of this photo?

It definitely looks like Andrew to me, and Camden would make a lot of sense in terms of a place he might plan to go.

In those days Camden was a destination place for any teenager wanting to shop for grungy, affordable, music related clothing and accessories. Nowadays everything there is available online and overpriced in store, but back then it was definitely the kind of place you'd want to head to do some shopping to get hold of stuff you couldn't get elsewhere.

To me this would make sense of the withdrawal of cash, because lots of the market stalls only took cash.

And it would be a reasonable plan to make to go in and out in a day.

Very accessible from kings cross.

And, crucially, super busy at weekends, so much better to go during the week.

As well as this, I can imagine then - as now - plenty of shady characters hanging around. Very possible to get chatting to the wrong person.

Even if this photo isn't Andrew, for me him planning a trip into Camden makes total sense.

Also, going back to this photo if you zoom in all the way you can't see a watch on this person. It's also hard to make out if there is a messenger bag. It makes no sense why Andrew would abandon his watch and messenger bag especially post 9/11 where abandoned bags were immediately treated as bombs or suspicious. I remember the first time I went on a plane post 9/11 and a girl abandoned her bag sitting next to me and the police immediately went to it like two seconds later and she came back moaning it was too heavy to carry to where she wanted to walk. The police told her off.

 

[Cardgame]

Also, going back to this photo if you zoom in all the way you can't see a watch on this person. It's also hard to make out if there is a messenger bag. It makes no sense why Andrew would abandon his watch and messenger bag especially post 9/11 where abandoned bags were immediately treated as bombs or suspicious. I remember the first time I went on a plane post 9/11 and a girl abandoned her bag sitting next to me and the police immediately went to it like two seconds later and she came back moaning it was too heavy to carry to where she wanted to walk. The police told her off.

I make out the messenger bag, it looks like it's on the other side of his body you can just see the strap and the shape. But zooming in, I don't see glasses and maybe the figure is thinner than Andrew?

Re. Leaving his bag, yes here in the UK abandoned bags have been sensitive since the 80's due to the IRA bombings.

Re. Night time, there is a canal in Camden. A man went missing there recently and his stuff was found abandoned by the canal. Down by the canal there would be very few people at night, except those up to no good.

However, I think my thought was that he went to camden shopping, not to unalive himself. I don't believe he went to London with thoughts of self harm. I think if he did that, it would have been in order to get it noticed.

I'm also leaning towards the idea that he could have made it back to the area of Yorkshire after all. Closer to home, where something happened to him at the hands of someone he knew. Perhaps the whole London thing is a great big red herring.

 

[beubeubeu]

That makes sense, but there was no email address found for Andrew. You'd expect him to at least have one to send these pictures or to be targeted. There's just nothing to speculate this is possible and all the teachers/staff from NAGTY seem so heartbroken over his disappeance so it makes it even more bizarre. The group he was in have their own reunion group on Facebook so it appears they were quite close in the friends/like brothers and sisters way. I just can't wrap my head around how he could have some secret internet life. I work in tech and have seen some things, but never anything like this.

If such email address was found itd be checked and got more (or completely clear) if there is something to it or not.
Him not having an email but finding some ways to get access to chats (internet cafes were a thing and HUGE advantage with homeworks) still dont think possible to rule out completely.
Whole secret internet life would actually make him (imo) less vulnerable and more cautious cause chatting with people on regular basis would mean mostly normal people and exposition to info, awareness how things work, what better not to do and so on. I wasnt thinking about Andrew having secret internet life within this theory but just enough access to trust wrong person and get in trouble (yet not enough to get a grasp how things are online).
After all, if the reason for his trip was easily traceable itd be known long time ago. Its not. As family and classmates and other people somewhat close to Andrew dont have much of a clue itd have to be something obscured. Most obvious obscure thing is a blackmail. Not something you tell anyone about, not something that people around you would suspect that may happen...

 

[vagab0nd]

I make out the messenger bag, it looks like it's on the other side of his body you can just see the strap and the shape. But zooming in, I don't see glasses and maybe the figure is thinner than Andrew?

Re. Leaving his bag, yes here in the UK abandoned bags have been sensitive since the 80's due to the IRA bombings.

Re. Night time, there is a canal in Camden. A man went missing there recently and his stuff was found abandoned by the canal. Down by the canal there would be very few people at night, except those up to no good.

However, I think my thought was that he went to camden shopping, not to unalive himself. I don't believe he went to London with thoughts of self harm. I think if he did that, it would have been in order to get it noticed.

I'm also leaning towards the idea that he could have made it back to the area of Yorkshire after all. Closer to home, where something happened to him at the hands of someone he knew. Perhaps the whole London thing is a great big red herring.

Anything is possible. There's nothing to say one way or the other.

 

[vagab0nd]

If such email address was found itd be checked and got more (or completely clear) if there is something to it or not.
Him not having an email but finding some ways to get access to chats (internet cafes were a thing and HUGE advantage with homeworks) still dont think possible to rule out completely.
Whole secret internet life would actually make him (imo) less vulnerable and more cautious cause chatting with people on regular basis would mean mostly normal people and exposition to info, awareness how things work, what better not to do and so on. I wasnt thinking about Andrew having secret internet life within this theory but just enough access to trust wrong person and get in trouble (yet not enough to get a grasp how things are online).
After all, if the reason for his trip was easily traceable itd be known long time ago. Its not. As family and classmates and other people somewhat close to Andrew dont have much of a clue itd have to be something obscured. Most obvious obscure thing is a blackmail. Not something you tell anyone about, not something that people around you would suspect that may happen...

I found a list of internet cafes from the area:

Key Internet Cafes in Central Doncaster from 2007:
The Minerva Cafe (Market Place): A staple of the town center since the 1970s. By 2007, it had adapted by offering computer terminals alongside its traditional "big breakfast" menu. It was located at 45 Market Place and was one of the most well-known spots for public access.
Bowers Cafe (Bowers Fold): Tucked away in the historic Bowers Fold, this cafe was known for providing internet terminals to shoppers and workers in the town center.
Frenchgate Cafe (French Gate): Located at 24 French Gate, this spot offered basic browsing services and was a convenient stop for people using the nearby bus station or shopping center.
The Tuckinn Cafe (St Sepulchre Gate): While primarily a greasy spoon, the Tuckinn provided PC access during the mid-2000s to cater to the growing demand for digital services in the town center.
Specialized & Community Hubs
Just Mollys Ltd (Conisbrough): Located on Church Street, this was a classic "all-in-one" hub. In 2007, it offered free computer/internet access, Wi-Fi, and business services like laminating, printing, and Western Union transfers.
Doncaster Central Library: While not a "cafe" in the commercial sense, the library on Waterdale was arguably the most-used location for internet access in 2007, often requiring a booking for their "People's Network" terminals.
E-Learn4Life: This was a specific initiative active in 2007–2008 across Doncaster, providing community-based internet access points and training, often operating out of local community centers or dedicated shopfronts.
The Shift in 2007
By 2007, the "pure" cyber cafe model was starting to fade in favor of Wi-Fi hotspots.
Costa Coffee and Starbucks (both with locations in the Frenchgate Centre) were beginning to offer Wi-Fi, though it was often via paid providers like BT Openzone or T-Mobile at the time.
Gaming Centers: There were several independent PC gaming shops (often around the East Laith Gate area) that functioned as LAN centers where people paid by the hour to play World of Warcraft or Counter-Strike.

His family have stated he was a homebody and didn't like to go out. He liked doing puzzles with his dad in the evenings. Surely they would notice their son going out multiple times a week to a cafe? Plus internet cafes were expensive. I remember using one in Paris in 2009 and it was like €1 for five minutes. They weren't cheap and the one I went to only took coins.

He was also considered smart/gifted so not sure the likelihood of him falling for such a thing. I remember getting email scams from Nigerian princes when I was 11 and emailing them back to go f themselves. One time a scammer sent me a cheque when I was under the age of 18 for $3,000 hoping I'd be a dumb enough kid to cash it and then get scammed that way. I knew it was a fake cheque and my mom confirmed it and told me how the scam worked. I didn't even have a bank account at the time so not sure how they found me. It is possible, but it's hard to imagine someone expressing no interest in tech wanting to willingly go out of his way to get access. He did molecular biology at NAGTY so he definitely sounds like he was more science-y.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Just want to point out that in 2007 there was a study done by researchers at a British university where they interviewed teenagers who were a part of the NAGTY program (the gifted education program that Andrew was a part of) about their taste in music. It focused specifically on kids who liked metal music.

School of rock . . . gifted teens use heavy metal to cope with stress


According to the research paper itself, which is also available online, researchers conducted the interviews using “NAGTY’s internet chat forums, a virtual space where registered members of NAGTY are able to discuss a variety of academic and social topics. Only registered NAGTY members can log-in and leave messages in the forum…”


The thread on the forums had an intro from the researcher who invited participants to ‘chat to me and among yourselves on this thread’.

Participants were aged between 11-19.

It’s an interesting coincidence that the topic of this study was metal music. I’m not however implying that Andrew was a participant in this study or even in the NAGTY forums, but just pointing out that members of the program had access to the forums and they were a place to chat and socialise with others in the program (and that some adults associated with the program had access too).

Interesting, had not heard of this before.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I just can't wrap my head around how he could have some secret internet life.

I think it would have been so easy to have a secret internet life, because when I was in high school, a lot of us did. I remember being in crazy chatrooms from the school computer lab (U.S., though, not UK).

At the same time, the chance the perpetrator could be located now seems minuscule, even if LE found out about an email address he had at the time or a chatroom or service he used to arrange a meetup.
Much of those chat servers haven't even existed for many years.

I wonder what his classmates have to say about the issue -- were they using chatrooms, did they access things they shouldn't from the school computers or think he could have, was there another place they went to use the Internet... it doesn't need to be a secret anymore.

 

[vagab0nd]

I think it would have been so easy to have a secret internet life, because when I was in high school, a lot of us did. I remember being in crazy chatrooms from the school computer lab (U.S., though, not UK).

At the same time, the chance the perpetrator could be located now seems minuscule, even if LE found out about an email address he had at the time or a chatroom or service he used to arrange a meetup.
Much of those chat servers haven't even existed for many years.

I wonder what his classmates have to say about the issue -- were they using chatrooms, did they access things they shouldn't from the school computers or think he could have, was there another place they went to use the Internet... it doesn't need to be a secret anymore.

There has been only one confirmed classmate that has spoken out so far. He said that he didn't buy that Andrew didn't have MSN Messenger because he and loads of others at the school had it. He didn't think Andrew was groomed and just found the whole situation odd. He didn't mention using chatrooms or other forms of social media. No other classmates have said anything and I can kinda understand why. They probably feel they have nothing to add to the situation because they didn't talk to him. It's like this girl I went to school with died of natural causes last year. She was in the grade above me. Her dad had been a teacher at the school for 36 years and had just retired three months before she died. I barely spoke to her despite having like two classes with her. I maybe said five words to her. I can tell you she had a group of friends and was always nice or seemed friendly, but I couldn't tell you anything further. I know nothing else. I don't know her social media usage or anything. All I could do was write a polite bog standard sorry for your loss on the obituary guestbook. I imagine his classmates feel the same. Imagine someone in your grade who you don't really speak to goes missing. What would you even say to that without upsetting the family and not repeating what's already been said? There's too many AI garbage videos on Tiktok and YouTube about this case just repeating the same thing over and over. It's annoying.

 

[warp3dwing]

I found a list of internet cafes from the area:

Key Internet Cafes in Central Doncaster from 2007:
The Minerva Cafe (Market Place): A staple of the town center since the 1970s. By 2007, it had adapted by offering computer terminals alongside its traditional "big breakfast" menu. It was located at 45 Market Place and was one of the most well-known spots for public access.
Bowers Cafe (Bowers Fold): Tucked away in the historic Bowers Fold, this cafe was known for providing internet terminals to shoppers and workers in the town center.
Frenchgate Cafe (French Gate): Located at 24 French Gate, this spot offered basic browsing services and was a convenient stop for people using the nearby bus station or shopping center.
The Tuckinn Cafe (St Sepulchre Gate): While primarily a greasy spoon, the Tuckinn provided PC access during the mid-2000s to cater to the growing demand for digital services in the town center.
Specialized & Community Hubs
Just Mollys Ltd (Conisbrough): Located on Church Street, this was a classic "all-in-one" hub. In 2007, it offered free computer/internet access, Wi-Fi, and business services like laminating, printing, and Western Union transfers.
Doncaster Central Library: While not a "cafe" in the commercial sense, the library on Waterdale was arguably the most-used location for internet access in 2007, often requiring a booking for their "People's Network" terminals.
E-Learn4Life: This was a specific initiative active in 2007–2008 across Doncaster, providing community-based internet access points and training, often operating out of local community centers or dedicated shopfronts.
The Shift in 2007
By 2007, the "pure" cyber cafe model was starting to fade in favor of Wi-Fi hotspots.
Costa Coffee and Starbucks (both with locations in the Frenchgate Centre) were beginning to offer Wi-Fi, though it was often via paid providers like BT Openzone or T-Mobile at the time.
Gaming Centers: There were several independent PC gaming shops (often around the East Laith Gate area) that functioned as LAN centers where people paid by the hour to play World of Warcraft or Counter-Strike.

His family have stated he was a homebody and didn't like to go out. He liked doing puzzles with his dad in the evenings. Surely they would notice their son going out multiple times a week to a cafe? Plus internet cafes were expensive. I remember using one in Paris in 2009 and it was like €1 for five minutes. They weren't cheap and the one I went to only took coins.

He was also considered smart/gifted so not sure the likelihood of him falling for such a thing. I remember getting email scams from Nigerian princes when I was 11 and emailing them back to go f themselves. One time a scammer sent me a cheque when I was under the age of 18 for $3,000 hoping I'd be a dumb enough kid to cash it and then get scammed that way. I knew it was a fake cheque and my mom confirmed it and told me how the scam worked. I didn't even have a bank account at the time so not sure how they found me. It is possible, but it's hard to imagine someone expressing no interest in tech wanting to willingly go out of his way to get access. He did molecular biology at NAGTY so he definitely sounds like he was more science-y.

Great research!

I do wish we knew more about what digital forensics were performed with respect to Andrew.

It was reported that any devices he would've had access to at home were checked (apparently just one: his sister's laptop), as well as school and library computers (source).

I've wondered about nearby cyber cafes, but if he was a regular visitor, you'd think there would be some record of that, or at least a report of someone seeing him at one. No such sighting exists, at least within public record.

Digital forensics was not in its infancy in 2007. I would also argue that back then, it was more difficult in many ways to cover one's digital tracks without deep computer knowledge.

Andrew wouldn't have had access to a VPN. Private, encrypted chat programs didn't start appearing to the general public until around 2010 or later. The only browser with private browsing in 2007 was Safari, but that wouldn't hide anything from their ISP had he used such a tool at home. At school, in a library, or at a cyber cafe, users don't typically have privileges to install apps or delete data from shared computers.

I believe if he was using a device to chat with someone surreptitiously, some trail of it would've been found. Some red flag in a cache file, database entry, or log entry would've been recovered or carved from one of the computers' hard drives they investigated.

However, I'm not totally sold on what I just wrote!

Investigators often say that they don't believe in coincidences. It would be a really incredible and unfortunate coincidence for a boy who was well-behaved and had perfect attendance to decide on a whim to abscond to London for the day, only to get abducted and murdered. Anything is possible, but I think Andrew had bigger plans.

I can only speculate as to what his plan was, but it's difficult to believe it wasn't hatched with the help of the internet. But that could just be my personal bias showing through. Perhaps all he needed was a paper London A-Z, a train timetable, and his past experience in London to see it through.

I also don't think London was his final destination, but I think I'm in the minority with that opinion.

 

[vagab0nd]

Great research!

I do wish we knew more about what digital forensics were performed with respect to Andrew.

It was reported that any devices he would've had access to at home were checked (apparently just one: his sister's laptop), as well as school and library computers (source).

I've wondered about nearby cyber cafes, but if he was a regular visitor, you'd think there would be some record of that, or at least a report of someone seeing him at one. No such sighting exists, at least within public record.

Digital forensics was not in its infancy in 2007. I would also argue that back then, it was more difficult in many ways to cover one's digital tracks without deep computer knowledge.

Andrew wouldn't have had access to a VPN. Private, encrypted chat programs didn't start appearing to the general public until around 2010 or later. The only browser with private browsing in 2007 was Safari, but that wouldn't hide anything from their ISP had he used such a tool at home. At school, in a library, or at a cyber cafe, users don't typically have privileges to install apps or delete data from shared computers.

I believe if he was using a device to chat with someone surreptitiously, some trail of it would've been found. Some red flag in a cache file, database entry, or log entry would've been recovered or carved from one of the computers' hard drives they investigated.

However, I'm not totally sold on what I just wrote!

Investigators often say that they don't believe in coincidences. It would be a really incredible and unfortunate coincidence for a boy who was well-behaved and had perfect attendance to decide on a whim to abscond to London for the day, only to get abducted and murdered. Anything is possible, but I think Andrew had bigger plans.

I can only speculate as to what his plan was, but it's difficult to believe it wasn't hatched with the help of the internet. But that could just be my personal bias showing through. Perhaps all he needed was a paper London A-Z, a train timetable, and his past experience in London to see it through.

I also don't think London was his final destination, but I think I'm in the minority with that opinion.

When I went to the internet cafes in Paris (mind you it was my first and only one) I just inserted my coin in and then started browsing. I just went on Twitter and DMed someone from back home. There was no registering. Nobody asked me questions. I just went in and sat down. I don't remember there being any security cameras or the cafe being in a sketchy location. My mom wanted Starbucks at the time and it was on my way back to the hotel. I don't recall seeing anyone over the age of 14 there or under. I don't think there were signs for 18+ or anything either.

I think the police might have more information in the case but don't want to release it because it might jeopardize the case. Notice how they never mention how they think he's dead. Some cases they mark the person dead after 15+ years, but not Andrew. It's very strange and all we can do is speculate and nitpick theories.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I imagine his classmates feel the same. Imagine someone in your grade who you don't really speak to goes missing. What would you even say to that

True, but there were a few boys he'd hang out with at school. However I'm sure they did tell police everything they remember about the computers, MSN Messenger, and so on.

And those that didn't know him do know if students in his class were able to access chats, etc. from the school computers. And I am really curious what his classmates were or weren't doing in general, even if they couldn't confirm he was.

It's not that they would know what he did necessarily but they'd know what was available or popular with teens there at the time.

 

[vagab0nd]

True, but there were a few boys he'd hang out with at school. However I'm sure they did tell police everything they remember about the computers, MSN Messenger, and so on.

And those that didn't know him do know if students in his class were able to access chats, etc. from the school computers. And I am really curious what his classmates were or weren't doing in general, even if they couldn't confirm he was.

It's not that they would know what he did necessarily but they'd know what was available or popular with teens there at the time.

YouTube was just starting to become popular at the time. I know kids would watch it on school computers where I lived. I had British friends back in the day who hosted some of the first gatherings that took place on the 15th of Sept. They've already said years ago Andrew was not in attendance. I remember talking to an Irish lad on MSN Messenger during culinary arts class. We met through Nerdfighteria (Green Brothers group thing). I asked my British husband what was popular and he said he never used MSN Messenger, but knew it was popular amongst the boys at his all-boys grammar school. At the time he was on Steam and YouTube. He wasn't into social media until he entered university and nowadays he doesn't use any social media besides browsing Reddit. I remember having Twitter, Facebook, Skype, MySpace, LiveJournal, Bebo, Stickam, YouTube, DeviantArt, and even used OKCupid the dating app when I was 17 in 2007. Everyone is different though and maybe we are just reading too much into it. Like his parents said he was more into adult conversation and friends so maybe that's why he didn't do the things that his classmates were doing? There's loads of Gen Z kids who are moving away from having any social media and dummy phones are a thing you can buy to help with screen time so maybe he was just ahead of his time. Maybe he thought social media was dumb and was just ahead of the curve.

 

[beubeubeu]

His family have stated he was a homebody and didn't like to go out.

But does visiting internet cafe or school (or possibly not school but local) library much of a deviation for a homebody type of person? Its not loud or a messy place, and could be visited on the way somewhere or while waiting for something.
Its not like kids who were frequenting internet cafes were troublemakers and head of teenage parties where I lived so I dont think it was so much different elsewhere.

He liked doing puzzles with his dad in the evenings. Surely they would notice their son going out multiple times a week to a cafe?

Big difference between liking doing puzzles with dad & enjoying doing it on regular basis and having puzzles with dad as only form of entertainment in spare time, maybe apart from watching TV or/and reading books.
There is not necessarily any contradiction there.

Surely they would notice their son going out multiple times a week to a cafe? Plus internet cafes were expensive. I remember using one in Paris in 2009 and it was like €1 for five minutes. They weren't cheap and the one I went to only took coins.

Surely? If he would be coming back from school, leaving backpack, grabbing a snack and leaving for few hours or kept spending there hours on hours then yeah, would be pretty hard to miss.
But using internet for people with no internet access at home or no fast/too pricy internet access at home didnt looked like that back then - at least not where I lived. Unless someone was like seriously into some game and was going there for gaming it wasnt like spending there hours on end every day or every other day.

Average way of using internet cafe service would be like 30mins up to an hour, maybe two hours at convenient time. So waiting for a bus, or waiting for a rain to end, going there to check something for schoolwork or check whats going on "in the web", visiting for a bit while going out to do some shopping (maybe not groccery shopping but like looking for shoes or something like that).

It totally didnt have to be some borderline internet addiction or second life kind of skit for Andrew. Could be no biggie, just a thing to do. Not so much with it being impossible to if itd be just occasional - once one week, twice in the other, three in third and no in the fourth.

Also prices varied a lot. One place ~1$ wouldnt cover 30mins, in other itd be 2 hours, same amount of money could buy a sandwich in my area. They wouldnt keep their businesses up if it was 1E for 5 minutes. In some ultra popular places with lots of tourists desperate to check their emails (or something else) and having no other choice sure, prices could be pumped up. But smaller cities, relying on locals and young people prices had to be affordable and they were.
Even my poorest friends were using internet cafes back in early 2000s. Not super often, not for that long, not spending bunch of money they didnt have on that, but enough to get into some online flirts with God-knows-who. Nothing super serious but it could unwind in all sorts of weird ways and unavoidably for some people it did.

He was also considered smart/gifted so not sure the likelihood of him falling for such a thing. I remember getting email scams from Nigerian princes when I was 11 and emailing them back to go f themselves. One time a scammer sent me a cheque when I was under the age of 18 for $3,000 hoping I'd be a dumb enough kid to cash it and then get scammed that way. I knew it was a fake cheque and my mom confirmed it and told me how the scam worked. I didn't even have a bank account at the time so not sure how they found me. It is possible, but it's hard to imagine someone expressing no interest in tech wanting to willingly go out of his way to get access. He did molecular biology at NAGTY so he definitely sounds like he was more science-y.

Anyone can fall for "such a thing" if its defined by being lied to and taken advantage of.
Nigerian princes werent trying to meet people so IF Andrew fell a victim to a blackmail itd be something else.
I remember one father hopelessly trying to fight for justice after his daughter tried to kill herself over internet stuff. She wasnt talking with anyone, havent send anyone her pics. She went on a schooltrip and fell asleep. Her classmates arranged some dumb things around her, painted her face? or made it look like she peed herself, took pics and added these on ultra popular mocking-random-people-websites. Nobody said anything, he (her father) discovered that just cause someone else from family or some family friend (I dont remember the details that well anymore) noticed that. Cops were no help and website kept refusing to take these pics down as there still was no law that could effectively force them to do it.

Him sending some pics of himself to what-he-thought-was-a-girl-his-age and getting blackmailed over it it just one of the possibilities. Could be other things to blackmail with and not even including something that he did.
It wasnt happening online, but happened few times to me and my friends as it was kinda widely known that our parents wont believe us that we havent done something if someone else will say that we did. Pretty sure some of those parents were 100% sure that they are just a great parents and in case of any trouble kid would get to them first for help. Yet they were never giving a pass that bus left someone and caused a kid to be late. In their minds nothing like that could ever happen unless kid made it up cause doing something bad.
While kids who REALLY were up for some rebelious or "bad" actions just didnt care that much about a curfew, and thanks to that they were kinda protected. Cause nobody could use their fear of getting in trouble with parents to comply and get into a car under pretence of getting a lift or doing something to avoid parents hearing gossip that they were seen drinking or stealing something.
This is a thing that most parents still dont think about and dont consider. That their intent of being strict and raising a kid well may be twisted and used against them and against their kids who are trying their best to follow their rules - by some manipulative and evil person.

Almost 20 years, nobody knows where Andrew is and it doesnt look like anybody has a pretty good guess why he went to London and IF there was someone who knew about his plans.
It wasnt normal thing for Andrew to do, so there had to be something pretty unusual about it.
If it was just unusual but not risky, possibly embarassing, better to keep as secret kind of thing - more likely than not there would be hints why and where exactly. Yet there were not.

Maybe cause he was lured. Maybe cause of blackmail. Blackmail done by someone met online OR just executed online, but done by someone from Andrew's circles, like a classmate older brother or step-father who had access to their online activity.
If said activity would involve more kids, we would most likely know about it. But if like just two or three - then it could happen that none of them said anything.

 

[warp3dwing]

When I went to the internet cafes in Paris (mind you it was my first and only one) I just inserted my coin in and then started browsing. I just went on Twitter and DMed someone from back home. There was no registering. Nobody asked me questions. I just went in and sat down. I don't remember there being any security cameras or the cafe being in a sketchy location. My mom wanted Starbucks at the time and it was on my way back to the hotel. I don't recall seeing anyone over the age of 14 there or under. I don't think there were signs for 18+ or anything either.

I think the police might have more information in the case but don't want to release it because it might jeopardize the case. Notice how they never mention how they think he's dead. Some cases they mark the person dead after 15+ years, but not Andrew. It's very strange and all we can do is speculate and nitpick theories.

Oh, absolutely. In Paris or London, no one would even notice Andrew at an internet cafe. I meant in Balby, he would have been more likely to have been noticed.

I'm not sure that anyone is legally presumed dead unless family or a guardian presses for the designation after 7 years. In Andrew's case, there isn't really a reason to have him declared presumed dead since he doesn't have an estate to split up, etc.

I feel like if Andrew is somehow still alive, he must be harboring such extreme resentment about something that happened in his life back in 2007 that appeals from his family haven't moved him at all. It's hard to imagine after almost 20 years. Then again, could you imagine the animosity that would be directed toward Andrew should he reappear now?!

 

[Inspector Evans]

Oh, absolutely. In Paris or London, no one would even notice Andrew at an internet cafe. I meant in Balby, he would have been more likely to have been noticed.

I'm not sure that anyone is legally presumed dead unless family or a guardian presses for the designation after 7 years. In Andrew's case, there isn't really a reason to have him declared presumed dead since he doesn't have an estate to split up, etc.

I feel like if Andrew is somehow still alive, he must be harboring such extreme resentment about something that happened in his life back in 2007 that appeals from his family haven't moved him at all. It's hard to imagine after almost 20 years. Then again, could you imagine the animosity that would be directed toward Andrew should he reappear now?!

Used to do this on holiday in the mid 2000s! Always internet cafes in tourist areas so would go in and browse for half an hour on the news back home especially if it was incredibly hot part of the day so nice to be in shade for a bit while everyone else is having a siesta.

 

[vagab0nd]

Oh, absolutely. In Paris or London, no one would even notice Andrew at an internet cafe. I meant in Balby, he would have been more likely to have been noticed.

I'm not sure that anyone is legally presumed dead unless family or a guardian presses for the designation after 7 years. In Andrew's case, there isn't really a reason to have him declared presumed dead since he doesn't have an estate to split up, etc.

I feel like if Andrew is somehow still alive, he must be harboring such extreme resentment about something that happened in his life back in 2007 that appeals from his family haven't moved him at all. It's hard to imagine after almost 20 years. Then again, could you imagine the animosity that would be directed toward Andrew should he reappear now?!

I had a Reddit account once where I barely posted much of anything. My username was something completely unrelated to me and based off a hobby that I had no interest in or knew anything about. There was a post on some British subreddit where someone asked about food and I said some random comment about how I think crumpets and English muffins from America are basically similar. Within like the same hour or two someone had replied to my comment with my full name, a link to my LinkedIn profile, details of where I went to school, and an old address and cellphone number from where I lived in the US. I was so shaken. I immediately reported them and then went through my Reddit profile, but I had never left a comment anywhere talking about my home life or where I lived or my job. I had made random comments like about actors or books I read. The comment got removed and I deleted my account. I never made a new one after that. I think if someone could go out of their way to find a stranger's details then some super sleuther could go out of their way to find Andrew online. It's unlikely that he's alive otherwise he would've made contact by now or at least told the police he's fine and doesn't want to be in contact with anyone.

 

[warp3dwing]

I had a Reddit account once where I barely posted much of anything. My username was something completely unrelated to me and based off a hobby that I had no interest in or knew anything about. There was a post on some British subreddit where someone asked about food and I said some random comment about how I think crumpets and English muffins from America are basically similar. Within like the same hour or two someone had replied to my comment with my full name, a link to my LinkedIn profile, details of where I went to school, and an old address and cellphone number from where I lived in the US. I was so shaken. I immediately reported them and then went through my Reddit profile, but I had never left a comment anywhere talking about my home life or where I lived or my job. I had made random comments like about actors or books I read. The comment got removed and I deleted my account. I never made a new one after that. I think if someone could go out of their way to find a stranger's details then some super sleuther could go out of their way to find Andrew online. It's unlikely that he's alive otherwise he would've made contact by now or at least told the police he's fine and doesn't want to be in contact with anyone.

Scary stuff! Although I must disagree that crumpets and English muffins are the same.

I hope the Reddit mods seriously looked into someone willing to dox you over crumpets.

If Andrew communicated digitally through private chat apps, there wouldn't really be a way to sleuth that. But if he did, he was somehow able to hide it from targeted digital investigation, which I think is unlikely. He would have had to have had a device that no one knew about and that never connected to WiFi at home. Anything's possible, but there's no evidence leading that way.

I know many people have pointed out that his PSP could connect to WiFi, and that it's might be possible to do without Sony being aware of it. I can't say for sure whether that's possible, but the PSP does have a rather unique user agent string, which internet servers would capture. It would be possible to search internet logs at school and at the library to see if a PSP had connected to the internet and for what purpose. I imagine it'd be pretty rare to find, seeing that the built-in browser was not user-friendly.

 

[beubeubeu]

I feel like if Andrew is somehow still alive, he must be harboring such extreme resentment about something that happened in his life back in 2007 that appeals from his family haven't moved him at all. It's hard to imagine after almost 20 years. Then again, could you imagine the animosity that would be directed toward Andrew should he reappear now?!

I can imagine it being not caused by some immense animosity. Obviously I dont know the statistics of it, but as much as I recall all these news about missing people located alive after long years of being missing it barely ever felt like their reasoning for running away and staying away was resentment. Looked like it was mostly fear and some horrible situation they couldnt find any other/better solution for than disappearing entirely. Might be lack of close connection to the family mixed with fear of someone in the family, close to the family, or possibly wanting to hurt their family if they wont disappear.

Or no extreme resentment at all if held hostage somewhere. Highely unlikely, yet not impossible.
Or if his disappearance was connected to some form of abduction or trap but he miraculously escaped few years later but went through hell and stayed away cause he couldnt foresee trying to confront the life he lost and his family who might suffer more knowing what happened to him than believing he's dead or living a good life somewhere. Extremely unlikely, also not impossible cause one's mental state after severe trauma may be all over the place.
Some people are just not looking back. Could be no extreme resentment but somehow a decision made, full commitment to never look back, never ever check anything about their past lives, figuring out that till the point they couldnt be legally forced to go back it all went so far it got irreversible.
Or let's say fear. Running away cause someone close to the family was hurting him. Getting hooked on the belief that family will never believe it, that they wont forgive not telling them and fearing that confrontation so bad, just blocking all the memories, all the longing, everything. Could be also done as a kid, with kid's reasoning and logic, and kept later cause blocked, with the assumption that it all went too far already and is irreversible.

 

[vagab0nd]

I can imagine it being not caused by some immense animosity. Obviously I dont know the statistics of it, but as much as I recall all these news about missing people located alive after long years of being missing it barely ever felt like their reasoning for running away and staying away was resentment. Looked like it was mostly fear and some horrible situation they couldnt find any other/better solution for than disappearing entirely. Might be lack of close connection to the family mixed with fear of someone in the family, close to the family, or possibly wanting to hurt their family if they wont disappear.

Or no extreme resentment at all if held hostage somewhere. Highely unlikely, yet not impossible.
Or if his disappearance was connected to some form of abduction or trap but he miraculously escaped few years later but went through hell and stayed away cause he couldnt foresee trying to confront the life he lost and his family who might suffer more knowing what happened to him than believing he's dead or living a good life somewhere. Extremely unlikely, also not impossible cause one's mental state after severe trauma may be all over the place.
Some people are just not looking back. Could be no extreme resentment but somehow a decision made, full commitment to never look back, never ever check anything about their past lives, figuring out that till the point they couldnt be legally forced to go back it all went so far it got irreversible.
Or let's say fear. Running away cause someone close to the family was hurting him. Getting hooked on the belief that family will never believe it, that they wont forgive not telling them and fearing that confrontation so bad, just blocking all the memories, all the longing, everything. Could be also done as a kid, with kid's reasoning and logic, and kept later cause blocked, with the assumption that it all went too far already and is irreversible.

Take this with a grain of salt. Someone on Reddit said their parents are friends with Andrew's and that they hang out a lot in the same circle. They said that his parents seem painstakingly normal and that nothing seems off about them. They don't say anything about his disappearance that hasn't already been shared with the media. Honestly, based on interviews they've given they seem rather normal and I'm inclined to think this is probably true. I mean, his dad is posting other missing children on Facebook and really doing all that he can for others. A narcissist would make it all about them. Look at JonBenet Ramsey's brother on Dr. Phil. He was acting erratic and weird. He was giving off some strange vibes. Andrew's parents have always acted sane in every interview. They seem like well-rounded standard church goers. Not the kind that think they are holier than though but just I'm there for community and friendship sort of vibes. If they had been narcissistic or something then someone in their tiny village would come out and say so. Small town villages love to talk. YUNGBLUD is from Doncaster and even he said in an interview that it's just a boring town that's full of rather poor people, but it's got its characters and people talk.