UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Lucy6226]

The vicar having his own key , last person to see Andrew before London , happened to be passing as the dad attempts to hang himself? Strange ?

Very strange.

But we know Andrew arrived in London apparently on his own. He didn't buy a return ticket and wasn't seen returning home.

 

[Lucy6226]

This mentions the suicide attempt and him being found by a friend. I remember reading years ago that it was the vicar who found him, because he apparently had a key to their house.

Father's search goes on for missing son

Kevin Gosden has endured every parent's worst nightmare following the disappearance of his teenage son. He tells Madeline Goodwin why he hasn't given up hope.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Thank you

 

[64WhetstoneRoad]

Do we know what time his train arrived in London or what the time was when he was seen on CCTV? When I was young I used to just pop into London for the freedom, to gather my thoughts, to people watch, to feel anonymous, to do something for the day without anyone knowing, the thrill of feeling slightly more grown up. Perhaps his visit to London was just that, maybe there wasn’t a specific reason. Maybe he thought once he was there and tired of this freedom he could just buy a ticket to go back home that very same day but obviously he never got back home. I’m not sure how long the trains took back then but maybe he thought he could be there and back before his parents noticed anything. The uniform left at home could be used as an excuse if he was late back that he had gone back out after school for whatever reason and that was all, hiding a much greater adventure… MOO. Also, I can’t remember what times his parents would have arrived home after work, was it after he had finished school or before?

 

[nippernipper]

Did the vicar a disservice as from previous post I interpreted as Andrew's Dad also went to that park and attempted to end his life.

That's some hearing and hunch from the Vicar to just go into someone else's home like that, must be fantastic trust there.

Yeah exactly. And as Markybug said, very weird that he was the last person known to Andrew to see him before he set off to London, had his own key, and also was coming to dinner the night Andrew was supposed to return home. Just a lot of coincidence. But then again, Andrew's parents were very into the church so maybe that's understandable that he was so close to the family. His daughter used to be a friend of Andrew's too.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Few minor quibbles in this post to query.

From what I remember of my secondary school days (2000-07) finishing at half 12 only occurred on the Friday before half terms and this one was at the start of the school year. I did go to School in the West Midlands compared to Yorkshire though. He was also a few years off sixth form where you do get gaps in the school day and it isn't 9-half 3 anymore schedule.

I agree - I'm not saying its not the case, but we never finished early on a Friday in my part of the UK, and having my partner as a teacher, as well as my mother and several friends, I've never heard of an early finish, and especially not so near the start of a new term.

London to Donny is also at least three hours by road and considerably more if returning more on rush hour Friday afternoon. Also got the single ticket.

I don't really think he just went down to London to walk around for 2-3 hours. Even if he did I also don't think he just got snatched off a street walking around tourist areas, maybe if he was wondering around one of the estates like Clerkenwell but even then in afternoon is very very unlikely, trust me.

Absolutely - if he just wanted to bunk off, then he could've gone to a city or big town nearer to him. What people often forget is that the journey to London is long enough, but then when you add in the time to get around in London (the tube is quick sure, but it can still eat up your time) he wouldn't have had much time to do much, that is of course if he was planning to come home on the Friday night though.
It still points to the fact that he went there for some sort of an event, what that was is the big question. I do agree about the unlikelihood of being snatched off the street - although there was the case of Martin Allen in 1979 (not saying they are linked - but more the MO of the abductor, that he posed as a policeman) but again it is such a slim chance.
A big point though is did a young man bunk off school and then get abducted in the worst possible case of bad coincidences occurring? It's slim - but may have happened.
I tend to veer more towards that the bunking off and an abduction are linked.

Any potential abduction or eventual disappearance would've come from spending much longer than a Friday afternoon in London as he'd have eventually had to reach out to someone and that is one potential malicious intentions can occur when an individual or group realise this is a vulnerable young person a fair way from home and without means of contacting family.

Possibly - but he did have money, family in London and in a populated city. He could've called home, he could've gone into a police station, a shop, hotel wherever really. Someone would've helped.

It was just the PSP he took down, didn't own a mobile at that stage as I first had one around 13/14.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Do we know what time his train arrived in London or what the time was when he was seen on CCTV? When I was young I used to just pop into London for the freedom, to gather my thoughts, to people watch, to feel anonymous, to do something for the day without anyone knowing, the thrill of feeling slightly more grown up. Perhaps his visit to London was just that, maybe there wasn’t a specific reason. Maybe he thought once he was there and tired of this freedom he could just buy a ticket to go back home that very same day but obviously he never got back home. I’m not sure how long the trains took back then but maybe he thought he could be there and back before his parents noticed anything. The uniform left at home could be used as an excuse if he was late back that he had gone back out after school for whatever reason and that was all, hiding a much greater adventure… MOO. Also, I can’t remember what times his parents would have arrived home after work, was it after he had finished school or before?

His train left at 9:35am, he arrived in at 11:20am and was caught on CCTV at 11:25am.

I believe that normally he was home before his parents. They presumed that he was somewhere in the house when they sat down for dinner. When this wasn't the case they thought he may be with a friend or neighbour (does this mean that he sometimes did this and was late getting home?)

One thing that has crossed my mind regarding the single ticket - did the trains have any restrictions on times of travel? Train operators often have an on and off peak time to travel. Where I'm from in Suffolk it's between 4 and 6 I believe (admittedly there are probably more commuters this way) where if you buy a cheaper off-peak return you can't travel in these times. Is this why Andrew refused the return? Knowing that possibly he planned to return in those hours.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Do we know what time his train arrived in London or what the time was when he was seen on CCTV? When I was young I used to just pop into London for the freedom, to gather my thoughts, to people watch, to feel anonymous, to do something for the day without anyone knowing, the thrill of feeling slightly more grown up. Perhaps his visit to London was just that, maybe there wasn’t a specific reason. Maybe he thought once he was there and tired of this freedom he could just buy a ticket to go back home that very same day but obviously he never got back home. I’m not sure how long the trains took back then but maybe he thought he could be there and back before his parents noticed anything. The uniform left at home could be used as an excuse if he was late back that he had gone back out after school for whatever reason and that was all, hiding a much greater adventure… MOO. Also, I can’t remember what times his parents would have arrived home after work, was it after he had finished school or before?

With a clear run it is 1 hour 20 odd minutes from Donny straight down the East Coast main line to XC. Actually quicker than many routes from the Midlands and also Manchester and Liverpool.

I think it was about midday he arrived so I guess it is possible he could've aimed to go back to XC around half 4 and then get back home for 7pm which is when his Dad seemed to realise he wasn't around.

I would say for a day trip why not just go into Sheffield, Leeds, maybe Manchester? Perhaps those cities didn't hold any interest for him compared to London but far more closer to Donny.

I think his trip down there was potentially for longer than five hours but unclear still why.

 

[TheRockingRev]

With a clear run it is 1 hour 20 odd minutes from Donny straight down the East Coast main line to XC. Actually quicker than many routes from the Midlands and also Manchester and Liverpool.

From the times that have been reported it was just under two hours (probably accounting for the fact that it was almost 20 years ago so may have taken a different route, or not been high-speed)

I think it was about midday he arrived so I guess it is possible he could've aimed to go back to XC around half 4 and then get back home for 7pm which is when his Dad seemed to realise he wasn't around.

11:20 - which like you say would've given him a bit of time to have a wander. It would be interesting to know when he supposed to be seen in the Pizza Hut (this is the sighting which supposedly the most reliable).
Which may add weight to my above post that a return ticket may not have been any use if it was for off-peak trains only.

I would say for a day trip why not just go into Sheffield, Leeds, maybe Manchester? Perhaps those cities didn't hold any interest for him compared to London but far more closer to Donny.

True - maybe London as there's more to do. Plus having visited with family he would know what there was and where it was

I think his trip down there was potentially for longer than five hours but unclear still why.

It 's the most frustrating question of the case. I do think though that it's a very slim chance he got abducted off the street. This was the middle of London, summer hours, still in tourist season. I can't see an opportunist doing that - or even taking the risk. IMO he was either meeting someone, left London and went on somewhere else (my lest most likely theory) or he attended an event and met an opportunist there later in the day.

 

[TheRockingRev]

. I’m not sure how long the trains took back then but maybe he thought he could be there and back before his parents noticed anything. The uniform left at home could be used as an excuse if he was late back that he had gone back out after school for whatever reason and that was all, hiding a much greater adventure… MOO.

The only thing that would need clearing up on this point was how aware he would be that the school would call up when he didn't arrive. As we know they did, albeit to the wrong number (and I don't think there was anything more to this than someone misdialling). It changes the narrative completely if he wasn't aware and therefore was trying to make it home on time - but different if as has ben stated that he went somewhere that would be easier to gain forgiveness rather than permission, as this would indicate he was planning to stay in London for the night/overnight.

 

[TheRockingRev]

It's interesting that his Father has said that Andrew was more likely to go to the British Museum than a gig or similar event. Certainly it would explain why he walked out of King's Cross as the walk is very easy. If he was planning on going somewhere else then I would've expected him to take the tube. If he did go to the Museum, then the time of the Pizza Hut sighting is most important. It wouldn't be a long walk down to the restaurant from the museum - but the key point here is time.
The British Museum is vast, so you would need quite a few hours there. Based on times we know he would've been there about 12noon had he walked straight there - I can't see him leaving much before 2pm.
But then again the question is did he have to queue to get in? If so he may have decided not to go in and instead have a wander instead. That would explain the sightings at Pizza Hut and Covent Garden - all in a trajectory from the Museum.

 

[nippernipper]

The only thing that would need clearing up on this point was how aware he would be that the school would call up when he didn't arrive. As we know they did, albeit to the wrong number (and I don't think there was anything more to this than someone misdialling). It changes the narrative completely if he wasn't aware and therefore was trying to make it home on time - but different if as has ben stated that he went somewhere that would be easier to gain forgiveness rather than permission, as this would indicate he was planning to stay in London for the night/overnight.

It's possible that Andrew just didn't know they would call, because he had 100% attendance.

 

[TheRockingRev]

It's possible that Andrew just didn't know they would call, because he had 100% attendance.

Exactly. In fact, was it general procedure they called, or was it on this occasion that it was Andrew, and therefore so unexpected?

 

[GML1981]

Welcome and thank you for a great first post

There's conflicting reports about how many times Andrew walked home from school. But perhaps what is more significant is that just a couple of weeks beforehand he had been off school for the summer holidays. That would've been 6 weeks. With his parents presumably at work, would they know what he was doing. He could've quite easily been talking to someone in those 6 weeks, meeting up, becoming friendly. Those times may not seem significant on their own, but combined with the idea that it was a culmination of greater interaction - they are. Was it because he missed having carefree days of the holidays to meet this new friend the reason he walked home on those days? Was it because they couldn't see each other as regularly the catalyst for Andrew wanting to take a day off and spend another completely free day with his friend?

This is going to be one of the ones that will drive us all mad. It's such a small, small thing, but can change the whole narrative of the story. IMO the return ticket is because he thought he would be returning that night perhaps in a lift in a car. But JMO. Like I say it's something so small but that makes a big, big difference

Absolutely. I think what it does prove though is that he wasn't running away. He definitely thought he'd be returning.

Exactly - I think his movements in the 6 week summer holidays are very important.

I agree with the one way ticket thing. Andrew was only 14 and reserved for his age. Quite possible he misheard or didn’t fully understand what the lady was asking. At that age when we did travel into london my parents would buy my tickets….if I had been asked do I want a return, I might not have know what to say.

 

[davidt]

The vicar having his own key , last person to see Andrew before London , happened to be passing as the dad attempts to hang himself? Strange ?

There's also the fact that Andrew had stopped attending church. Might not be surprising as at his age he simply might have given up on it. Is it known when he stopped attending? Was it shortly before he disappeared or had he stopped attending some time before?

As for the vicar having a key. I did think that was odd initially. However I think the vicar was a family friend and its not unusual for households to give a spare key to friends or a neighbour for emergencies.

All that aside the church does remain one of the few known places where Andrew could have formed some sort of relationship with someone.

 

[wtiger]

i too find the coincidences involving the vicar to almost beggar belief

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Maybe not if they live in the same neighborhood and met up often, though.

 

[davidt]

It was after Andrew disappeared and the police who were investigating at the time kept focusing on the family and why Andrew would leave instead of treating the case like a vulnerable kid in danger who needed to be found -- his father eventually had a complete break-down (understandable, IMO).

A lot of people who take their own lives aren't found, though. I think it definitely can't be ruled-out but is not the most likely thing that happened.

Firstly I agree with you on the lack of a body. Bodies/remains often turn up many, many years later and often then only by fluke or accident. So I don't think suicide or accident can be completely ruled out. I don't think it is particularly likely but not impossible.

I do understand why the police originally focused on the family. Often the cause of such cases do lie close to home. However in this case they do seem to have been particularly intense or heavy handed and you do wonder a little why that was.

 

[GML1981]

i too find the coincidences involving the vicar to almost beggar belief

What coincidences happened with the vicar please? I haven’t come across anything about that.

 

[BethAnn777]

Didn’t Andrew’s family live in a duplex? Any chance the vicar lives/ed on the other side of one wall?

 

[nippernipper]

I agree with the one way ticket thing. Andrew was only 14 and reserved for his age. Quite possible he misheard or didn’t fully understand what the lady was asking. At that age when we did travel into london my parents would buy my tickets….if I had been asked do I want a return, I might not have know what to say.

Didn’t Andrew’s family live in a duplex? Any chance the vicar lives/ed on the other side of one wall?

No, the vicar lived close by but not next door I believe.