UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[CrackerC119]

This is my suspicion as to what happened, they are purely my thoughts and are not intended to be taken as a statement of truth.

I think that Andrew wanted to buy something that he'd been told about somehow, be it advertising online (his sister had a laptop) or something he'd seen advertised elsewhere. I think he communicated for a while with the supposed 'seller', possibly via post, or on his mobile phone and arranged to collect it on the Friday that he disappeared.

Andrew, despite his young age, knew how to navigate public transport, including in London, as some of his family lived there and he had visited many times. It's said that he woke up late that morning and was anxious about it. I think he knew how long it would take for him to get to London and how long it would take for him to get back. I think, knowing that his parents would be out whilst he was supposed to be at school, he made a plan. I think he was agitated that morning, as he'd woken up late and that meant less time to get to London and back without his parents knowing. I believe his parents possibly were very busy with their work with the church and as speech therapists and perhaps didn't pay great attention to Andrew, assuming he was a content child that simply enjoyed spending time in his room with his games console and pool table. I think they may have missed clues that something strange was happening. I think Andrew returned home to change, so that his truancy wouldn't be as obvious (school uniforms are very common in the UK, especially in Catholic schools, such as McCauley, where Andrew attended). I think he had been offered a lift home by the seller. If he made it to London by lunch time, as he did, there's every possibility that the supposed seller could have driven him home before his parents noticed that he was missing. His father said it wasn't until around 7pm that they became concerned about Andrew's whereabouts. I think the seller arranged to meet him in the King's Cross/Saint Pancras/Euston/Russell Square area. One of the reasons I think this is that he was seen leaving the station on foot, and not by the Underground, which would have taken him to destinations further afield, and we know he had the cash means for an underground ticket. Another reason I think that the meet was supposed to take place there was because of the time critical element of his trip. Having visited London many times, he would have known the King's Cross area, as that is where train services from Doncaster tended to terminate (a limited number of services also terminated at Saint Pancras, which is next door, at the time). I also note that Andrew had no coat on, and the weather can turn cold on September evenings, despite the daytime being warm, so this also suggests to me that he intended to return home before his parents, along with the fact that he took his house keys.

I think something happened to Andrew in the King's Cross area or other area in the Central London zone. I certainly don't think that he went far away from the station before things turned strange. Central London has a plethora of CCTV cameras, and it would have been difficult for him to have ventured much further without being seen on camera and especially if he boarded public transport, with many Underground stations and buses being fitted with CCTV cameras at the time. That said, this was before the re-development of King's Cross station forecourt and there were many obstructions of views that could have blocked CCTV at this time, as well as the area awaiting re-development, so camera use may have been limited, which could be why there is no further footage of Andrew beyond leaving the station. I think he went in to a camera black spot but certainly didn't venture far, as I think other parts of London would have been able to capture him on camera, e.g. if he went towards Strand or Oxford Circus. His family in London were based in the outer suburbs e.g. Sidcup, so I feel there would have been a great chance for him to have been seen on camera had he gone to visit them there.

I think Andrew was calm and happy at the time he left King's Cross station. He looks relaxed. It took approximately five minutes from the train arriving in to London at 11:20 for him to leave the station, where he was seen on camera at 11:25. Trains from Yorkshire arrive in to King's Cross very close to the exit, so I think he was casually taking a slow and gentle stroll out of the station and certainly wasn't trying to avoid being seen on camera. This suggests to me that all in Andrew's life was mundane at the moment and he was happy in his surroundings.

I think Andrew could have been met by the supposed seller, who possibly turned out to be more sinister than Andrew believed. I believe the seller wanted to harm Andrew. I don't feel it was a robbery. Andrew had less than £300 on him at the time, and this would be a petty amount to steal and risk being caught for, as well as not worth the planning of getting Andrew to come to London. A street mugging in central London, during the daytime would have been unlikely to have gone un-noticed, I feel. I feel that there was a darker, more sinister motivation for Andrew's disappearance. I believe Andrew was taken to a private property, close by or in King's Cross. I tend to suspect, but not with certainty that when Andrew's case made the news, the supposed culprit felt that Andrew could no longer be kept alive, because of what he knew. I believe Andrew was sadly killed at the property and his body disposed off some weeks later, when the law enforcement teams had completed their searches of the King's Cross area.

For some reason, my attention is drawn to the King's Cross Thameslink station, which closed around two months after Andrew's disappearance and has been left derelict ever since. This was just yards away from where Andrew was last seen and is a dark, abandoned station where trains pass through, but do not call and as it is closed, there is no staff presence there. I think that someone may have seen this as an ideal place to dispose of a body and possibly make it appear that the body was accidentally struck by a train. I am also mindful of the locks and waterways that run past the top of near by Pancras Square, through Kentish Town and to Camden. I am not aware of these waterways having been searched.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I believe Andrew was taken to a private property, close by or in King's Cross.

So you don't think the Pizza Hut sighting was him?

I think something like your scenario sounds plausible, but I also assume an abductor would more likely want to lure the victim far away from the station area (and any CCTV) and make sure he was alone before somehow bringing him to a new unexpected location (just in case he had told someone where he was going).

If he was lured by a promise to buy something, I wonder what. I've never been sold on the concert tickets or gaming system ideas really.

 

[CrackerC119]

<modsnip - no link to an approved source>

I'm still inclined to believe my theory that something happened soon after he left King's Cross, mainly because of the lack of CCTV but Andrew's father has suggested a delay in action from the police meant some possible CCTV captures could have been wiped.

The average temperature on the 14/9/2007 in London was 15 degrees and there was a haze, which could suggest humidity and a warm night. It could have been possible to sleep out in a t-shirt without freezing to death, especially if in a porch or other crevice that could shield against any wind. Could a 14 year old really have gone un-noticed sleeping rough in Central London, a city which sees activity and sizeable footfall at all hours of the day? It was also a Friday night on the evening of the 14th, Central London would have been awash with partygoers, revellers and merrymakers, out drinking in the bars and lingering around the streets. Part of me wonders if because the case was so heavily focussed on Doncaster, for example this thread title states Doncaster when in fact it was London where the last confirmed sighting was, perhaps Andrew's case wasn't in people's minds as much in London at the time. Had it been prominent in local news in London, I could imagine shop owners, café owners and hoteliers checking their CCTV footage. It's just one possibility but I do wonder if that could explain the lack of CCTV beyond King's Cross forecourt.

Andrew's father claimed on Facebook that a source had a conversation online with a person using a username that Andrew used to be known by when he was younger. Eerily, they said that they left home at 14 because they "felt like it" and needed £200 to pay a bill, eerily, the same amount Andrew withdrew from the ATM at the petrol station on the Friday in 2007. The user claimed to be working in a shop in Lincoln and Andrew's family felt the lead was credible to follow up and conducted a search and flyer distribution in the Lincoln area, un-beknown to the press.

I feel it's a long shot but I do wonder if Andrew could have felt estranged from his family. In the households I've been in, it's typical for family members to say hello or make other people in the house aware of their presence when they return home. Would a mother and father not ask their 14 year old child how their day had been as soon as they came home? How could it be around 7pm before concerns were raised? I wonder if Andrew felt distanced from his parents and family, possibly because of their religious views and if he felt overpowered by his sister, who in the Thin Air podcast suggests that she is an extrovert, whilst she suggests Andrew was/is an introvert? I wonder if Andrew decided to start a new life around people with similar interests to him. Research says there were music-related events taking place in London in September 2007, including one in Brixton. That said, I can't see how a 14 year old, who looked younger would go un-noticed alone and I'd imagine getting from King's Cross to Brixton would involve passing many CCTV cameras, I can't imagine all of them having wiped their footage within days. However, I don't feel confident that the police did an adequate job with the search for Andrew. I recall the case of Damien Nettles, a teenager who vanished on the Isle Of Wight less than 11 years before Andrew and the police seemed to take a very nonchalant approach in finding him in the early days of his disappearance. The first 24 hours can be crucial in finding out what happened to a person.

On thread 1 of Andrew's case on here, a user says that their friend is fairly certain that they saw Andrew at King's Cross some years after he disappeared. She particularly noticed that he had an abnormality on his ear, similar or the same as what Andrew had/has. She said he was carrying a rucksack which appeared to have "all his worldly goods" in. It's difficult to imagine how a child could survive with little to no apparent money - it's also suggested* in the previous threads that Andrew's family put more money in to his bank account but this was never withdrawn or used. The pictures used in Andrew's posters show him with long (for a boy) hair. I think it would have been relatively easy and cheap for someone to cut their hair off to change their appearance and 'throw people off the scent'.

Ofcourse, it would be nice to think of Andrew as safe and well and living in a house in Lincolnshire. But, I am ambivalent about this case, as I find it hard to believe a 14 year old with such a young looking face could escape the attention of social services and the authorities for so long. I wonder if he could have been talking to someone, either via post, phonecalls from phoneboxes or via one of his games consoles who enabled him to start a new life, or if he was sadly groomed by them and forced in to labour or even worse, some sort of abuse in exchange for a discreet place to say and to be provided for. If Andrew's disappearance was ten years earlier, when CCTV was more sparse and child safeguarding wasn't taken as seriously, I would be more inclined to believe the suggestions that Andrew has started a new life for himself. As it stands, I remain ambivalent but practically, I'd be more inclined to believe that foul play occurred not long after Andrew was seen leaving King's Cross.

 

[sportstergirl]

A 14 year old starting a new life off the grid is the stuff of TV thrillers. Not saying it's impossible but it would be incredibly difficult. Any reputable hotel or boarding house would have alarm bells ringing if a youngster tried booking a room. I also think it's higly likely Andrew came to harm soon after arrival in London. On the other hand there was a possible later sighting of a person resembling an older Andrew at a Muse concert (another of his favourite bands) a few years later but nothing came of it.
Andrew's parents seemed quite laid back & he appeared to have a happy homelife with no conflicts. Why would he leave home?
I still think he was lured to London by someone on a music site. S'ikth & 30 Seconds to Mars (2 of his favourite bands) had London shows that weekend. CCTV of the concerts was studied but no sign of him was found.
There were 2 arrests a few years ago but no further developments far as I know.

 

[Inspector Evans]

A 14 year old starting a new life off the grid is the stuff of TV thrillers. Not saying it's impossible but it would be incredibly difficult. Any reputable hotel or boarding house would have alarm bells ringing if a youngster tried booking a room. I also think it's higly likely Andrew came to harm soon after arrival in London. On the other hand there was a possible later sighting of a person resembling an older Andrew at a Muse concert (another of his favourite bands) a few years later but nothing came of it.
Andrew's parents seemed quite laid back & he appeared to have a happy homelife with no conflicts. Why would he leave home?
I still think he was lured to London by someone on a music site. S'ikth & 30 Seconds to Mars (2 of his favourite bands) had London shows that weekend. CCTV of the concerts was studied but no sign of him was found.
There were 2 arrests a few years ago but no further developments far as I know.

Yes I'm sure with all the publicity of the case from the following week that a hostel or B&B owner would've queried where a 14 year old parents were if they were trying to book in alone. We get that in Home Alone when after all!

I think you can be fairly sure he met someone and went to private property and then sadly horrific things probably happened. Or trying to get a lift from one part of London to another later on in the Friday and someone with a stranger with sinister intentions picked him up and again that's how you can disappear off the face of the Earth in one moment.

 

[CrackerC119]

It would be helpful to know how extensive the police's CCTV request have been. A video I saw suggested that Mr Kevin Gosden, Andrew's father has made a request for all of the footage that the police have.

It seems to me that South Yorkshire Police performed poorly in this case, failing to secure CCTV footage before it was too late to redeem it. I do wonder how much more conclusive this case would be had they checked at the local railway station in Doncaster sooner - it was after all a short, flat walk (around 1 mile) from his home and Andrew was known to enjoy travel - his father even said some of their initial thoughts when they were looking for Andrew would be that he's gone to Whitby or London.

 

[Lucy6226]

A 14 year old starting a new life off the grid is the stuff of TV thrillers. Not saying it's impossible but it would be incredibly difficult. Any reputable hotel or boarding house would have alarm bells ringing if a youngster tried booking a room. I also think it's higly likely Andrew came to harm soon after arrival in London. On the other hand there was a possible later sighting of a person resembling an older Andrew at a Muse concert (another of his favourite bands) a few years later but nothing came of it.
Andrew's parents seemed quite laid back & he appeared to have a happy homelife with no conflicts. Why would he leave home?
I still think he was lured to London by someone on a music site. S'ikth & 30 Seconds to Mars (2 of his favourite bands) had London shows that weekend. CCTV of the concerts was studied but no sign of him was found.
There were 2 arrests a few years ago but no further developments far as I know.

Exactly, especially as the years have passed and digital identity and tracking is widely used. The only way it would be possible is if he was given a new identity like witness protection or something. Which I feel is highly unlikely. Unfortunately I am of the same opinion that he met with someone and sadly met his end.

 

[JSolt1210]

A 14 year old starting a new life off the grid is the stuff of TV thrillers. Not saying it's impossible but it would be incredibly difficult. Any reputable hotel or boarding house would have alarm bells ringing if a youngster tried booking a room.

I believed the same thing until I found the story of Crystal Haag.

Basically at age 14, Crystal made a split-second decision to board a bus from Baltimore to New York City and never come back. Enduring five years of sexual abuse, which her mother claims not to have been aware of, Crystal took nothing with her, and yet she created a new identity, got a job, new support system, even a family. Just like that. And she has lived here ever since.

Granted in her case, getting pregnant made it easier for her to obtain official government documentation under her assumed new identity because of New York's "no questions asked" policy in a situation like hers.

I'm not saying this is what Andrew did, and I have no idea how easy it would be to pull this off in the UK in 2007. But Crystal's story made me realize that it really is possible, and that the person might not even have planned for it to go that far. I just feel that if she could do it with less, then maybe we can't rule out this possibility in Andrew's case.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It would be amazing if he was alive somewhere, but one difference is that in the case you mention, she seems to have had good reason not to contact family again whereas IMO Andrew would have contacted a relative by now.

 

[TheRockingRev]

<modsnip - no link to an approved source>

I'm still inclined to believe my theory that something happened soon after he left King's Cross, mainly because of the lack of CCTV but Andrew's father has suggested a delay in action from the police meant some possible CCTV captures could have been wiped.

One thing to remember is back then there wasn't nearly as much CCTV as there is today. It's actually shocking that even today not all of the London Underground is on CCTV.

The average temperature on the 14/9/2007 in London was 15 degrees and there was a haze, which could suggest humidity and a warm night. It could have been possible to sleep out in a t-shirt without freezing to death, especially if in a porch or other crevice that could shield against any wind. Could a 14 year old really have gone un-noticed sleeping rough in Central London, a city which sees activity and sizeable footfall at all hours of the day? It was also a Friday night on the evening of the 14th, Central London would have been awash with partygoers, revellers and merrymakers, out drinking in the bars and lingering around the streets. Part of me wonders if because the case was so heavily focussed on Doncaster, for example this thread title states Doncaster when in fact it was London where the last confirmed sighting was, perhaps Andrew's case wasn't in people's minds as much in London at the time. Had it been prominent in local news in London, I could imagine shop owners, café owners and hoteliers checking their CCTV footage. It's just one possibility but I do wonder if that could explain the lack of CCTV beyond King's Cross forecourt.

It's sad, but yep he could. Grab some cardboard, roll up in a shop doorway. There were plenty of places in London at that time, disused buildings, under bridges, bushes in the park etc. that someone could quite easily hide away from the world for a few hours. It didn't need to be central London, its a short walk, or bus/tube ride to get to somewhere quieter. It could be that he was just wandering, and if someone with bad intentions noticed him on his own and clearly not with anyone, they could've then moved in on him - offered him help or a bed for the night.

Andrew's father claimed on Facebook that a source had a conversation online with a person using a username that Andrew used to be known by when he was younger. Eerily, they said that they left home at 14 because they "felt like it" and needed £200 to pay a bill, eerily, the same amount Andrew withdrew from the ATM at the petrol station on the Friday in 2007. The user claimed to be working in a shop in Lincoln and Andrew's family felt the lead was credible to follow up and conducted a search and flyer distribution in the Lincoln area, un-beknown to the press.

There's been a bit of a discrepancy about this as it's said that the name that was used was only used b his family, but then I believe that it came to light that the name had come out in an earlier interview with his dad. This is just IMO but it seems to be a troll just due to the weird overstating of the information in the conversation, and nothing concrete said that only Andrew and his family would know.

I feel it's a long shot but I do wonder if Andrew could have felt estranged from his family. In the households I've been in, it's typical for family members to say hello or make other people in the house aware of their presence when they return home. Would a mother and father not ask their 14 year old child how their day had been as soon as they came home?

His disappearance only came to light when the family sat down to dinner. They thought he was at a friend's or neighbour's house. So I think they may have gone to see if he was home, when they saw he wasn't they just thought this was where he was.

How could it be around 7pm before concerns were raised?

This was when the family sat down to dinner. In my house it was always you had to be home by dinner time, and it was only when you were late that it was really noticed.

I wonder if Andrew felt distanced from his parents and family, possibly because of their religious views and if he felt overpowered by his sister, who in the Thin Air podcast suggests that she is an extrovert, whilst she suggests Andrew was/is an introvert? I wonder if Andrew decided to start a new life around people with similar interests to him. Research says there were music-related events taking place in London in September 2007, including one in Brixton. That said, I can't see how a 14 year old, who looked younger would go un-noticed alone and I'd imagine getting from King's Cross to Brixton would involve passing many CCTV cameras, I can't imagine all of them having wiped their footage within days. However, I don't feel confident that the police did an adequate job with the search for Andrew. I recall the case of Damien Nettles, a teenager who vanished on the Isle Of Wight less than 11 years before Andrew and the police seemed to take a very nonchalant approach in finding him in the early days of his disappearance. The first 24 hours can be crucial in finding out what happened to a person.

I think if he was wanting to start a new life he would've taken more with him - definitely the additional cash and the charger for his beloved computer game console. The reason for the lack of CCTV IIRC is that the police were putting a spotlight on his family more than anything else, interviewing his family and even searching around the home the weekend after he disappeared. It was just slightly mishandled by the police - a lack of interest, manpower, resources - who knows. But it just meant by the time they actually got round to finding the Kings Cross footage they had lost valuable time to see additional footage beyond the train station. It was just a really unfortunate turn of events which has left so many unanswered questions.

On thread 1 of Andrew's case on here, a user says that their friend is fairly certain that they saw Andrew at King's Cross some years after he disappeared. She particularly noticed that he had an abnormality on his ear, similar or the same as what Andrew had/has. She said he was carrying a rucksack which appeared to have "all his worldly goods" in. It's difficult to imagine how a child could survive with little to no apparent money - it's also suggested* in the previous threads that Andrew's family put more money in to his bank account but this was never withdrawn or used. The pictures used in Andrew's posters show him with long (for a boy) hair. I think it would have been relatively easy and cheap for someone to cut their hair off to change their appearance and 'throw people off the scent'.

Ofcourse, it would be nice to think of Andrew as safe and well and living in a house in Lincolnshire. But, I am ambivalent about this case, as I find it hard to believe a 14 year old with such a young looking face could escape the attention of social services and the authorities for so long. I wonder if he could have been talking to someone, either via post, phonecalls from phoneboxes or via one of his games consoles who enabled him to start a new life, or if he was sadly groomed by them and forced in to labour or even worse, some sort of abuse in exchange for a discreet place to say and to be provided for. If Andrew's disappearance was ten years earlier, when CCTV was more sparse and child safeguarding wasn't taken as seriously, I would be more inclined to believe the suggestions that Andrew has started a new life for himself. As it stands, I remain ambivalent but practically, I'd be more inclined to believe that foul play occurred not long after Andrew was seen leaving King's Cross.

 

[CrackerC119]

There's been a bit of a discrepancy about this as it's said that the name that was used was only used b his family, but then I believe that it came to light that the name had come out in an earlier interview with his dad. This is just IMO but it seems to be a troll just due to the weird overstating of the information in the conversation, and nothing concrete said that only Andrew and his family would know.

There does seem to be an issue with suspected trolling accounts relating to Andrew's case. The video with the creepy music on YouTube that has spelling mistakes in the text and also the random Underground footage seems to either be a red herring or plain looking for attention, in my opinion.

 

[CrackerC119]

His disappearance only came to light when the family sat down to dinner. They thought he was at a friend's or neighbour's house. So I think they may have gone to see if he was home, when they saw he wasn't they just thought this was where he was.

I suppose it's easy to expect him to be treated with kids gloves because he looks much younger than his age in the pictures. I must remind myself that he was 2 years off being 16.

 

[CrackerC119]

This is an official interview with Kevin Gosden, father of Andrew Gosden.

I'm half way through and a couple of points have been made by Mr K Gosden.

Andrew had several associates in London, e.g. friends and family. *

Andrew would have had bus travel free of charge.

Regents Canal has not been searched....this canal is very close to King's Cross station.

* Points made by Mr Kevin Gosden, non * points are made in the narration.

 

[CrackerC119]

From 55:50 in the video, The Search For Andrew Gosden, it seems to me to suggest that Andrew's room was painted AFTER he disappeared. It seems his father says it was yellow and they thought he'd like blue. Did I hear this right? Why might they change the paint on their missing son's room?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Yes. It was many years later, and something nice to do, take care of the room. His father has said in interviews they have had to renovate/upkeep their home over the years. Other needed renovations. JMO.

 

[CrackerC119]

Yes. It was many years later, and something nice to do, take care of the room. His father has said in interviews they have had to renovate/upkeep their home over the years. Other needed renovations. JMO.

I do believe that the room in the background of Andrew's father in this video from 2008, shows Andrew's room to have been painted in blue.

As you say, it could just be upkeep but I find it interesting. Could it be that they painted it in hope that Andrew would return within a year's time? I could imagine that but considering that the room has otherwise been left as it was when he disappeared, I got the impression that it was being kept as some sort of shrine, my impression purely - which would make it strange to paint, especially seemingly so soon after Andrew disappeared.

 

[davidt]

I suppose it's easy to expect him to be treated with kids gloves because he looks much younger than his age in the pictures. I must remind myself that he was 2 years off being 16.

Looked it up and he was 14 years, two months and a few days at the time. He did look much younger and it's easy to think of him that way.

 

[davidt]

It would be amazing if he was alive somewhere, but one difference is that in the case you mention, she seems to have had good reason not to contact family again whereas IMO Andrew would have contacted a relative by now.

Of course we know this because she was found and could tell her side of the story. We don't know what happened to Andrew and obviously have no idea what his side of the story may be. On top of that even if he did run away to start a new life something else may have happened to him.

 

[Konstantin]

Of course we know this because she was found and could tell her side of the story. We don't know what happened to Andrew and obviously have no idea what his side of the story may be. On top of that even if he did run away to start a new life something else may have happened to him.

If Andrew was groomed, which I believe he was, he might believe (grooming is incredibly powerful after all, which is why it is so dangerous) that e.g. he has done something wrong himself and would get into trouble, serious trouble, if he gives himself up; that he is protecting his groomers (very common); the groomers made him think his dad is evil or bad. Andrew was a very young 14 and very impressionable. We have no idea what was going on with him that day when he left his home. Clearly something was.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

As you say, it could just be upkeep but I find it interesting. Could it be that they painted it in hope that Andrew would return within a year's time?

Oh I didn't realize it was within a year. Of course they would have hoped he'd return soon. At the same time, I can imagine if my son went missing, I'd spend a lot of time in his room and definitely clean it for him regularly and maybe sometimes add some decoration I thought he'd like.