UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

  • #1,561
In September 1995, 65 year old convicted paedophile James Stewart was working as a Big Issue seller in Leicester Square.

Stewart lured a 15 year old boy (who had run away from his home in Essex that morning) to his house in Kilburn Lane, where he plied the boy with beer and whiskey, and subjected him to a brutal sex attack.

This is the same MO Dennis Nilsen used with young boys in the 80s, and what I suspect happened to Andrew. I suspect the killer or killers would have been caught if CCTV hadn't been ignored by police and wiped.

We will never know the number of missing and dead from crimes like this. Most especially in any case when these young men and women (children, in fact) were known as 'runaways' or 'troubled' or in and out of care / foster homes and lost track of.

Also anyone coming to London from another city before the days of mobile phones and CCTV, unless they had a tight knit caring family and maintained plenty of phone calls and letters could just disappear. Many people used to love the anonymity of London - if you asked people what made them come they'd say to get away from small town mentality and to feel free and to be anonymous, finding their home towns and villages boring, repressive, suffocating. It bites both ways, anonymity.
 
  • #1,562
Yes I went to the aforementioned Sega World at some point in the mid 90s. Begged my Mum most days and she eventually relented as early Birthday present one Easter. As someone who was obsessed with the Mega Drive growing up in that era it certainly would be tempting for a day out if any other big space was offering that type of gaming experience in 2007.

As I've mentioned a few times there was a gamer meetup in a London public space that very weekend, sure you've seen the YT link before TRR but happy to post again if you missed it?

I actually agree he could've gone down to London at other points in Summer 2007 to meet someone and his parents would be none the wiser if he was just returning to his home from 6pm onwards.
yes please tell me where to see this link
 
  • #1,563
yes please tell me where to see this link

O.k posted it a few times on her down the years but of course not every regular contributor will check this thread regularly:


According to the title this took place on Saturday 15th September 2007. Not sure on location but there are shops in the background so somewhere central.

A few comments mention Andrew as there's a kid with glasses five and a minutes in who bares a similarity so while it wasn't him it was certainly young adults of the profile of Andrew in liking gaming and music with some of the t-shirts being worn.
 
  • #1,564
The YouTube gathering theory has been debunked,

1) It was the day after he disappeared and it wouldn't make sense for him to go down there a day early.
2) People who were there would've surely remembered speaking to and hanging out with him.
3) A lot of teenage boys had a similar look at that time. There was one man in the video that was accused of being Andrew, who came forward years later to say that he was 19 at the time, with dyed black hair and was 6ft tall. Andrew was 5 ft 3 and had mousey brown hair.
4) Most importantly, Andrew didn't appear to be very interested in the internet, or have the means to spend a lot of time on it, so it's unlikely he would've been part of an obscure YouTube community.
 
  • #1,565
The YouTube gathering theory has been debunked,

1) It was the day after he disappeared and it wouldn't make sense for him to go down there a day early.
2) People who were there would've surely remembered speaking to and hanging out with him.
3) A lot of teenage boys had a similar look at that time. There was one man in the video that was accused of being Andrew, who came forward years later to say that he was 19 at the time, with dyed black hair and was 6ft tall. Andrew was 5 ft 3 and had mousey brown hair.
4) Most importantly, Andrew didn't appear to be very interested in the internet, or have the means to spend a lot of time on it, so it's unlikely he would've been part of an obscure YouTube community.
Thank you
 
  • #1,566
Worboys drove a black cab in central London in 2007. In September 2007, he was already on bail after being arrested for sexual assault in Covent Garden in July.

His known victims were women, so Andrew doesn't really seem to fit. However, Warboys apparently had associates who filmed pornographic videos at one of his properties, so you never know...
Worboys has apparently hinted at killing Andrew to another inmate. The details are in a new book but that particular excerpt can be read below:

One ex-con told the authors Worboys had confided in him that he had “murdered a boy”.
The lag alleged: “The boy he claimed to have murdered was a young boy from up north who travelled to London.
“He was 15, had a young face and glasses. I don’t remember the name.
“Worboys said he was a hide and seek champion, too, and referred to the missing boy. Him and his mate in Bournemouth, Dave, did the boy.
“I left it and thought nothing of it, then it came on TV about the missing boy, a cold case. I saw it.
"Worboys referred to it again and said that was his case. Brown and Worboys are from the same area and slept with the same prostitutes. They both knew each other.
“Brown never said he was involved, but with Worboys, there is a massive dark side.”
 
  • #1,567
Worboys has apparently hinted at killing Andrew to another inmate. The details are in a new book but that particular excerpt can be read below:

One ex-con told the authors Worboys had confided in him that he had “murdered a boy”.
The lag alleged: “The boy he claimed to have murdered was a young boy from up north who travelled to London.
“He was 15, had a young face and glasses. I don’t remember the name.
“Worboys said he was a hide and seek champion, too, and referred to the missing boy. Him and his mate in Bournemouth, Dave, did the boy.
“I left it and thought nothing of it, then it came on TV about the missing boy, a cold case. I saw it.
"Worboys referred to it again and said that was his case. Brown and Worboys are from the same area and slept with the same prostitutes. They both knew each other.
“Brown never said he was involved, but with Worboys, there is a massive dark side.”

I've followed this case off and on and this (sadly) seems the most plausible explanation. I've always thought he'd have likely got into a cab after leaving the train station. And whilst I haven't read this particular article before now, it fits. And I don't think it's confirmation bias, I think logically it does seem to fit like a glove.

But why go to London in the first place without informing anyone? Was there someone posing as a teenage boy (or girl) online and he arranged to meet them? It seems quite unlikely (at least to me) that he'd go down to spend time in London alone.

I wonder if police ever followed up on any of this? The only thing that doesn't make sense to me, is that Worboys' victims were female. Why the change of MO? Why target a teenage boy?

A lot about this case makes no sense. I often wonder if there's a significant amount more information that police have but haven't made public.
 
  • #1,568
I wonder if police ever followed up on any of this? The only thing that doesn't make sense to me, is that Worboys' victims were female. Why the change of MO? Why target a teenage boy?

It is definitely a change of MO but the book did also state Worboys openly admitted he was bisexual. Andrew also went missing from central London the same month his friend Derek Brown was abducting vulnerable females from those same streets.


From the same book:
“One ex-inmate had more recent information on his fate, alleging that, 'Since getting another life sentence he is in a bad way, thin and aged and lost it at Wakefield. My friend has just been to Wakefield with John. John openly admits he's bisexual. He has been for years.'”
 
  • #1,569
This would be the worst possible outcome. I hope and pray it isn't what happened.

I can't even imagine how it would have happened unless Andrew thought he was getting into a legitimate taxi. But I hope Andrew was the kind of teen who only felt comfortable with trains and buses -- public transport-- and that whatever did happen, it wasn't the worst.
 
  • #1,570
Worboys has apparently hinted at killing Andrew to another inmate. The details are in a new book but that particular excerpt can be read below:

One ex-con told the authors Worboys had confided in him that he had “murdered a boy”.
The lag alleged: “The boy he claimed to have murdered was a young boy from up north who travelled to London.
“He was 15, had a young face and glasses. I don’t remember the name.
“Worboys said he was a hide and seek champion, too, and referred to the missing boy. Him and his mate in Bournemouth, Dave, did the boy.
“I left it and thought nothing of it, then it came on TV about the missing boy, a cold case. I saw it.
"Worboys referred to it again and said that was his case. Brown and Worboys are from the same area and slept with the same prostitutes. They both knew each other.
“Brown never said he was involved, but with Worboys, there is a massive dark side.”

Mentioned this months back.

There was a Dave in the papers a few weeks back talking about Worboys.

"John Warboys Sunday People" gives the article on pressreader from Sunday 21st December for those who want to read it.

I do think this could well have been the fate for Andrew. Getting in unmarked car or transport vehicle in London and quickly realising this wouldn't be a good ending with who he encountered.

However no known Male victims of John Warboys so far so could just be him bragging and trying to connect himself to mysterious disappearance?
 
  • #1,571
This would be the worst possible outcome. I hope and pray it isn't what happened.

I can't even imagine how it would have happened unless Andrew thought he was getting into a legitimate taxi. But I hope Andrew was the kind of teen who only felt comfortable with trains and buses -- public transport-- and that whatever did happen, it wasn't the worst.

I suppose we have to take this admission from Worboys with a grain of salt. He could just be making it up for some strange reason. We don’t even know for a fact he said it either. It appears to be second hand information from another inmate.

This is SOMETHING new though in a case with so little to go on I guess. It is plausible that he got into a cab after arriving at Kings Cross too.
 
  • #1,572
Although why would Andrew get into a taxi?

I don't think he would have taken a cab somewhere he could get to in the city by bus or train. A teen wouldn't do that; they would just take the bus. Plus he had limited funds.

However IF he wanted to go somewhere not easily reached by public transportation, then perhaps?

Or at the end of his day, if he was running late and was not going to make it to the last train home without using a taxi to get back to King's Cross quickly, then perhaps?

Or if he was offered a "free" ride to a different part of London, then perhaps? (But I doubt this scenario. I think he would have said, "no thanks.")
 
  • #1,573
Although why would Andrew get into a taxi?

I don't think he would have taken a cab somewhere he could get to in the city by bus or train. A teen wouldn't do that; they would just take the bus. Plus he had limited funds.

However IF he wanted to go somewhere not easily reached by public transportation, then perhaps?

Or at the end of his day, if he was running late and was not going to make it to the last train home without using a taxi to get back to King's Cross quickly, then perhaps?

Or if he was offered a "free" ride to a different part of London, then perhaps? (But I doubt this scenario. I think he would have said, "no thanks.")

If he wasn't going back to Doncaster that night where was he going? And how was he getting there as not like every single part of London has a tube spot (South of the Thames).

I think that could be key. He's looking around for a vehicle to get him somewhere else and it pulls up and he gets in with the money he has which was clearly withdrawn to pay for something that day.
 
  • #1,574
Trying to put myself in his shoes, at 14 I’d have been comfortable taking a train or catching the bus but probably wouldn’t have gone anywhere near a black cab. When the Gosdens visited family in London I believe they’d take the train down from Doncaster to King’s Cross? And the relatives lived in south London? Would they have taken a train there or a taxi?

I don’t think Worboys had anything to do with this case but I can definitely believe Andrew was killed by a predator with a profile and MO not too dissimilar.
 
  • #1,575
It definitely could be a possibility IMO. Do we know if Andrew enjoyed the tube or buses? A lot of people don't in London. Particularly on a warm day when they can be rammed with people. Perhaps taking the money from the bank was so he could go a bit more 'upmarket' and take a cab - not just because he may have not liked public transport, but maybe because he liked the idea of riding in a black cab in London (it's sort of 'thing' to do - and remember he was young too).
Or it could be he was heading somewhere that was easier to get to by cab (remember some journeys can take in a few tube changes - time consuming and complicated if you don't know the network )or he was running late.
This could just be a case of a young lad who on a whim took a day off school and by a horrible twist of fate met a predator....although there are a few things that still don't add up.
 
  • #1,576
I don’t think Worboys had anything to do with this case

I'm not from the UK and not familiar with these SKs, but could it have been Worboys' friend? What was his profile/MO?
And Worboys just claimed to the inmate to also be involved, as a "fantasy" or "bragging rights? (I hate to put it that way.)

Did either man come across as charming/ trustworthy as part of being psychopaths? (I picture creepy-looking guys, but maybe they weren't and were very good at tricking people?)
 
  • #1,577
It definitely could be a possibility IMO. Do we know if Andrew enjoyed the tube or buses? A lot of people don't in London. Particularly on a warm day when they can be rammed with people. Perhaps taking the money from the bank was so he could go a bit more 'upmarket' and take a cab - not just because he may have not liked public transport, but maybe because he liked the idea of riding in a black cab in London (it's sort of 'thing' to do - and remember he was young too).
Or it could be he was heading somewhere that was easier to get to by cab (remember some journeys can take in a few tube changes - time consuming and complicated if you don't know the network )or he was running late.
This could just be a case of a young lad who on a whim took a day off school and by a horrible twist of fate met a predator....although there are a few things that still don't add up.

I'm sure he enjoyed London. I enjoyed going to London in my early adult/teenage years. However at 14-16 I certainly didn't have a detailed knowledge of all the train and tube routes down there so relied on my Mum and Grandmother to lead the way as they had both lived in Balham in the 1970s.

Maybe he did know all that but I side more to getting in a vehicle if he was going to place in the London suburbs. Now the question is was a vehicle linked to any possible grooming that might have been going on or was it a person unknown to him who realised the sinister possibilities if they were talking and he said he was on his own in London for the day/night?
 
  • #1,578
I would have thought tube or bus would be more likely than a taxi for a lad that age as well. The last CCTV pic shows him leaving Kings Cross by the main exit so I think that possibly rules out the tube as there are entrances to the tube is inside the station.
 
  • #1,579
I want to start with something based on direct work experience, because I think it’s important context when discussing whether Andrew could realistically still be alive and living under another identity.

I’ve worked multiple jobs in the UK, and in 2024 a new employee was hired at one of the factories owned by my employer. This was a very basic, entry‑level factory line role. During probation, HR ran the usual checks against HMRC systems and the individual was flagged as a missing person. Police attended the site and removed the employee. Beyond one brief local news article, none of us ever found out what happened afterward, but the point is this: you cannot quietly exist long‑term in the UK system without eventually being flagged. Even for low‑level work, identity checks catch up with you.

It’s also worth noting that even something as simple as being added as a second tenant on a rental property requires submitting your passport and work paperwork. It’s not just employment where your identity is verified—almost every official step in daily life in the UK requires documentation.

Because of that, I personally do not believe Andrew Gosden is alive and living a double life. The idea that he has avoided detection for this long doesn’t hold up in reality. While documents can be forged, they are also routinely uncovered. Sustaining a false identity for nearly two decades—working, housing, healthcare, taxes—would be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible.

I also don’t believe he survived by working “under the table” for years. That kind of existence might be possible short‑term, but not indefinitely, and not without someone eventually coming forward.
For those reasons, I think the most likely outcome is that Andrew is deceased and that his remains are somewhere undiscovered—possibly in a body of water, private land such as a garden, or woodland. I’m not convinced he died by suicide either. When people enter major rivers, particularly in urban areas, they are often seen. A relevant comparison is the YouTuber Carnage, who jumped into the Thames in 2015 and was rescued within minutes. Andrew disappearing without any witnesses makes suicide less convincing to me.

I also struggle with the grooming theory. There is no digital trail. No known emails, accounts, messages, or online activity tied to Andrew that support this. While it’s often argued that he could have had secret accounts, that explanation relies entirely on speculation rather than evidence. Grooming cases almost always leave some form of trace, even years later.

Overall, I think many theories persist because there is so little concrete information—but based on real‑world systems, identity checks, and how difficult it is to vanish completely, I don’t believe Andrew could still be alive without having surfaced by now.
 
  • #1,580
I want to start with something based on direct work experience, because I think it’s important context when discussing whether Andrew could realistically still be alive and living under another identity.

I’ve worked multiple jobs in the UK, and in 2024 a new employee was hired at one of the factories owned by my employer. This was a very basic, entry‑level factory line role. During probation, HR ran the usual checks against HMRC systems and the individual was flagged as a missing person. Police attended the site and removed the employee. Beyond one brief local news article, none of us ever found out what happened afterward, but the point is this: you cannot quietly exist long‑term in the UK system without eventually being flagged. Even for low‑level work, identity checks catch up with you.

It’s also worth noting that even something as simple as being added as a second tenant on a rental property requires submitting your passport and work paperwork. It’s not just employment where your identity is verified—almost every official step in daily life in the UK requires documentation.

Because of that, I personally do not believe Andrew Gosden is alive and living a double life. The idea that he has avoided detection for this long doesn’t hold up in reality. While documents can be forged, they are also routinely uncovered. Sustaining a false identity for nearly two decades—working, housing, healthcare, taxes—would be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible.

I also don’t believe he survived by working “under the table” for years. That kind of existence might be possible short‑term, but not indefinitely, and not without someone eventually coming forward.
For those reasons, I think the most likely outcome is that Andrew is deceased and that his remains are somewhere undiscovered—possibly in a body of water, private land such as a garden, or woodland. I’m not convinced he died by suicide either. When people enter major rivers, particularly in urban areas, they are often seen. A relevant comparison is the YouTuber Carnage, who jumped into the Thames in 2015 and was rescued within minutes. Andrew disappearing without any witnesses makes suicide less convincing to me.

I also struggle with the grooming theory. There is no digital trail. No known emails, accounts, messages, or online activity tied to Andrew that support this. While it’s often argued that he could have had secret accounts, that explanation relies entirely on speculation rather than evidence. Grooming cases almost always leave some form of trace, even years later.

Overall, I think many theories persist because there is so little concrete information—but based on real‑world systems, identity checks, and how difficult it is to vanish completely, I don’t believe Andrew could still be alive without having surfaced by now.
I also wanted to add some perspective about Andrew being on the train that I think gets overlooked. I’ve spent time in Germany, and I had serious culture shock when I saw four-year-olds taking themselves to kindergarten on public transport. This video explains what I mean really well:
.

So the fact that people think it’s “weird” for Andrew to have been on a train doesn’t seem odd to me at all. Even here in the UK, I’ll be going to the dentist during school or work hours and then go to the bus stop, and I see kids who are fifteen waiting with me. I always instinctively text my husband about it, and he always reassures me that it’s normal for England. I’m American, and I’ve been living in the UK for a decade, so it still surprises me—but to locals, it’s completely ordinary. That’s probably why no one thought to question Andrew being on a train by himself.
I also don’t think he was “looking for someone” at the station. I think he was simply taking in his surroundings. Personally, I’ve never been taught to read maps—born in the late ’80s, no proper geography classes—and I rely on MapQuest and Google Maps. Even now, navigating London without a maps app would leave me completely lost, despite having been there many times. I use it all the time just to make sense of my surroundings.

I think Andrew was probably doing the same—just trying to orient himself, not actively searching for anyone or anything.
 

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