Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #4 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Elainera]

MB's behaviour on that Monday doesn't fit with someone who had planned an abduction and murder, imo. Isn't the definition of murder that it's premeditated? Doesn't it strike you as odd, as I pointed out before, that he drove around erratically just an hour before and drew attention to himself being in the vicinity? Wouldn't he have avoided just that if he had planned the abduction and death of that little girl just an hour later?

Looks more like accident and cover up, or manslaughter to me.

Additionally, he was at the parents meeting before, at the garage the morning after, and he was strolling along a bridge at lunch time the day after. Not like someone who is trying to hide from LE imo. Does someone know how he behaved when he was arrested? I think if he had resisted it would have been mentioned in the press. Add to that the tears before the magistrate and I have a strong feeling that accident and cover up is the more likely scenario, but not murder.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

On another forum a family associate alleges MB split with his girlfriend the week before and had lost everything.

I personally wouldn't put these people as the smartest on the planet and on just one tiny estate there appears to be a few women who happily had MB's children. It all appears a little like an incestuous pass the parcel.

Maybe VF was allergic to chickens.

Have been lurking around FB this arvo, very enlightening. Also some pics posted on a find April page belonging to family member.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Whatever happened in this last breakup will be interesting to know towards his mindset, I'm sure, but the why is killing me. If she had an affair, there must have been some reason why. I'll wait for the trial. humph...

MB's ex girlfriend is Coral Jones's best friend.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Maybe VF was allergic to chickens.

Have been lurking around FB this arvo, very enlightening. Also some pics posted on a find April page belonging to family member.

What did you discover on FB?

 

[Elainera]

On another forum a family associate alleges MB split with his girlfriend the week before and had lost everything.

Maybe he broke down after that, emotionally, mentally.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

MB's behaviour on that Monday doesn't fit with someone who had planned an abduction and murder, imo. Isn't the definition of murder that it's premeditated? Doesn't it strike you as odd, as I pointed out before, that he drove around erratically just an hour before and drew attention to himself being in the vicinity? Wouldn't he have avoided just that if he had planned the abduction and death of that little girl just an hour later?

Looks more like accident and cover up, or manslaughter to me.

Additionally, he was at the parents meeting before, at the garage the morning after, and he was strolling along a bridge at lunch time the day after. Not like someone who is trying to hide from LE imo. Does someone know how he behaved when he was arrested? I think if he had resisted it would have been mentioned in the press. Add to that the tears before the magistrate and I have a strong feeling that accident and cover up is the more likely scenario, but not murder.

This is straying into territory that mods have warned about numerous times. FWIW, not referring to MB, if there was a textbook pattern of behaviour by offenders planning such crimes, then logically a lot less wouldn't be successful. The reason they are is because nothing about them or their behaviour rings alarm bells.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

MB's ex girlfriend is Coral Jones's best friend.

Which one, I ask myself

 

[Amber34]

From what I understand he broke up with VF. Moved to Llanbrynmair where he was evicted for keeping chickens. Then moved to Ceinws.

LE had been to the house in LLanbrynmair.

He was arrested whilst seen walking towards Machynlleth. I wonder if by then LE had already been to his house in Ceinwus.

From what I've read, I am not convinced he actually lived with VF although there is not a huge amount of information about where he lived other than the past 6 months

If we work a little timeline for his accommodation during the VF relationship it might be this:


September 2012 Moved to Ceinws (Friend and villager Carl Utteridge, 76, said he had spoken briefly with Mr Bridger when they were both waiting for a bus several weeks ago. “He was living here and waiting for a bus into Machynlleth but we didn’t say much. He had only been living here about a month and we only spoke the once. He didn’t say much.&#8221

April 2012 Moved into Llanbrynmair (The couple’s 22-year-old son, a garage worker also called Paul Edwards, said: “I knew Mark relatively well, since he moved in about six months ago. About three-to-four weeks ago I realised he’d moved out)

(where was he living at this point? With VF? And if it was with VF, where had he come from?)

Oct/Nov 2011 got together with VF (reports say they were together for 11 months but split a 'few weeks back', which was quoted about a fortnight ago, making the split around mid September)

(I've not seen anything regarding accommodation prior to this date)

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/in-depth/april_jones/2012/10/05/april-jones-police-focus-efforts-on-former-home-of-mark-bridger-55578-31970337/

Edit: This is all very vague and lots based on people saying 'a few weeks ago', which if they are anything like me, could mean a few months ago! If anyone has any corrections or amendments, please wade in and add them.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

What did you discover on FB?

Mostly just photos of the little one. Family connections (who is on whose friends list), nothing surprising or not already in MSM in one form or another.

MB's ex EG, now ED - her husband has public page on behalf of family.

 

[Clio]

Isn't the definition of murder that it's premeditated?

<rsbm>

Absolutely not. To prove murder, it needs to be shown that at the point that a person dies, the killer knew that what he/she was doing might result in the victims death. Evidence of pre-planning the event is not necessary.

 

[Dr. Know?]

MB's behaviour on that Monday doesn't fit with someone who had planned an abduction and murder, imo. Isn't the definition of murder that it's premeditated? Doesn't it strike you as odd, as I pointed out before, that he drove around erratically just an hour before and drew attention to himself being in the vicinity? Wouldn't he have avoided just that if he had planned the abduction and death of that little girl just an hour later?

Looks more like accident and cover up, or manslaughter to me.

Additionally, he was at the parents meeting before, at the garage the morning after, and he was strolling along a bridge at lunch time the day after. Not like someone who is trying to hide from LE imo. Does someone know how he behaved when he was arrested? I think if he had resisted it would have been mentioned in the press. Add to that the tears before the magistrate and I have a strong feeling that accident and cover up is the more likely scenario, but not murder.

This is what I know only from reading some articles that I haven't a clue if they are legit, I think.

-The possible blocking of vehicles at the parents night on a one way road so a car or so couldn't get out easily
-OAP aka retiree saw MB driving up and down the road irratically
-the other man or couple met up with him at the bridge on Tuesday and he was in a hurry and grinding gears on his vehicle then a loud bang.

-it took how many days to find the vehicle at the shop? Next day I think.
-it took how many days to find his home & search?

Something drove him out of control, not his first time either. jmo Night!

 

[Elainera]

This is straying into territory that mods have warned about numerous times. FWIW, not referring to MB, if there was a textbook pattern of behaviour by offenders planning such crimes, then logically a lot less wouldn't be successful. The reason they are is because nothing about them or their behaviour rings alarm bells.

My concern is that it might be difficult to convict him of murder as the defence will likely point out that for example he wasn't hiding his presence in the estate before the abduction, making it less likely that he planned the whole thing.

 

[Dr. Know?]

My concern is that it might be difficult to convict him of murder as the defence will likely point out that for example he wasn't hiding his presence in the estate before the abduction, making it less likely that he planned the whole thing.

It would depend on what events happened prior to and after April disappeared. He may have been waving a gun at the parents night, or up and down the street the OAP said he saw him, or he could have been threatening anyone, again, I'll wait for the trial. I hope everyone with important facts remain quiet until then and don't sell out to a rag mag. kwim?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

My concern is that it might be difficult to convict him of murder as the defence will likely point out that for example he wasn't hiding his presence in the estate before the abduction, making it less likely that he planned the whole thing.

Read post above by Clio.

Or do some research about the meaning of 'mens rea'.
Latin, for 'guilty mind'.
Two elements of a crime, mens rea (mental element) and actus reus (physical element).
Prosecution need to show both elements, evidence of mens rea is that accused thought about the offence before it happened. Doesn't have to have planned it in the way you are referring to.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Which one, I ask myself

Situations like these lead to arguments and conflict with ex's getting jealous and spiteful toward each other? I note there is nothing in the press that points to MB as having been a drunken brawler, but he is certainly a womaniser. More likely to produce jealous spiteful women, than a jealous spiteful man?

 

[Clio]

This is what I know only from reading some articles that I haven't a clue if they are legit, I think.

-The possible blocking of vehicles at the parents night on a one way road so a car or so couldn't get out easily
-OAP aka retiree saw MB driving up and down the road irratically
-the other man or couple met up with him at the bridge on Tuesday and he was in a hurry and grinding gears on his vehicle then a loud bang.

-it took how many days to find the vehicle at the shop? Next day I think.
-it took how many days to find his home & search?

Something drove him out of control, not his first time either. jmo Night!

FWIW The OAP didn't name MB. The grinding gears was early on Tuesday morning and was not reported by the couple. The couple who were ex-neighbours saw him *walking* by the cycle bridge on the A487 at about 2:15pm on Tuesday which led to his arrest at 3:30pm. The Landrover was found at the garage after his arrest, a little later on the same day.

 

[Amber34]

FWIW The OAP didn't name MB. The grinding gears was early on Tuesday morning and was not reported by the couple. The couple who were ex-neighbours saw him *walking* by the cycle bridge on the A487 at about 2:15pm on Tuesday which led to his arrest at 3:30pm. The Landrover was found at the garage after his arrest, a little later on the same day.

And that white Ford Connect that I am obsessed with was being 'guarded' by the old bill around the time the arrest was made, very close to the cycle bridge.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

This is what I know only from reading some articles that I haven't a clue if they are legit, I think.

-The possible blocking of vehicles at the parents night on a one way road so a car or so couldn't get out easily
-OAP aka retiree saw MB driving up and down the road irratically
-the other man or couple met up with him at the bridge on Tuesday and he was in a hurry and grinding gears on his vehicle then a loud bang.

-it took how many days to find the vehicle at the shop? Next day I think.
-it took how many days to find his home & search?

Something drove him out of control, not his first time either. jmo Night!

I don't think this question has been asked. Was April present at the parents evening?

 

[Elainera]

Absolutely not. To prove murder, it needs to be shown that at the point that a person dies, the killer knew that what he/she was doing might result in the victims death. Evidence of pre-planning the event is not necessary.

Murder:
"The elements of common law murder are:
Unlawful killing of a human by another human with malice aforethought.."

Malice aforethought:
"a deliberate and premeditated killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice."

The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

Intent to kill,
Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine)."

Source: Wikipedia

An intent has to be there for it to be called murder, or a reckless indifference.

Will be interesting to see if they can prove that.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Murder:
"The elements of common law murder are:
Unlawful killing of a human by another human with malice aforethought.."

Malice aforethought:
"a deliberate and premeditated killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice."

The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

Intent to kill,
Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine)."

Source: Wikipedia

An intent has to be there for it to be called murder, or a reckless indifference.

Will be interesting to see if they can prove that.

Maybe you should join the defence team then.