UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020

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  • #1,281
And I remember that Mr Hankin asked TH if he saw bruises on Arthur while showering him and he answered:

"I was discouraged to give him showers".

What does that mean?
That Arthur didn't have showers?

He was wearing dirty clothes, never changed.

Prisoners have better conditions.

But he didnt commit any crime.
:(
He kind of made out that ET looked after showering Arthur. Even that in itself is weird, at 6 years of age you would feel shy having a person of the opposite sex you only knew a little while showering you. I would say he wasnt bothered to even shower him sadly
 
  • #1,282
He kind of made out that ET looked after showering Arthur. Even that in itself is weird, at 6 years of age you would feel shy having a person of the opposite sex you only knew a little while showering you. I would say he wasnt bothered to even shower him sadly
That is very inappropriate. Also we saw how she woke him up in the morning... can’t imagine her making it very comfortable for him in the shower. I think she tried to inflict pain any chance she got.
 
  • #1,283
He kind of made out that ET looked after showering Arthur. Even that in itself is weird, at 6 years of age you would feel shy having a person of the opposite sex you only knew a little while showering you. I would say he wasnt bothered to even shower him sadly
Definitely. Showering time should be a bonding experience as well.
 
  • #1,284
That is very inappropriate. Also we saw how she woke him up in the morning... can’t imagine her making it very comfortable for him in the shower. I think she tried to inflict pain any chance she got.
It wouldn't surprise me if the shower was too hot or too cold. She'll never admit to it, and Arthur can't tell anyone about it now
 
  • #1,285
That is very inappropriate. Also we saw how she woke him up in the morning... can’t imagine her making it very comfortable for him in the shower. I think she tried to inflict pain any chance she got.

There was just no comfort for him no matter where he turned. I bet she made the showers horrible for him
 
  • #1,286
Yeah i wonder would painkillers like that cause agression, not looking for excuses for her, just trying to get my head around her evilness. Yeah i heard that alright, I couldnt find any info, i bet it will all come out after the trial
I know this is a way back but no. There’s absolutely no evidence, even anecdotal, to suggest that prescribed pain medication turns people into child abusers.
 
  • #1,287
I've just caught up, I've really struggled reading this and debated stopping several times. I cannot put into words my hatred for ET, she is the most evil person I've heard of in my life. I really hope she gets a full life order and that the ladies in prison get to find out exactly what she has done.
Me too. It goes against every human emotion and morals to to do this to another person.
I've also struggled to read some of it, but once I started I have to see it through if that makes sense. I feel uncomfortable reading these things, I can't imagine how a little boy felt having to live it.
 
  • #1,288
I know this is a way back but no. There’s absolutely no evidence, even anecdotal, to suggest that prescribed pain medication turns people into child abusers.
Thank you for pointing this out. I don’t believe whatever meds ET stopped taking made her abusive. MOO

Something I’ve been pondering, ET children are hardly mentioned on the cctv and she kept talking about wanting peace and quiet, I wonder if she’d trained her children to be upstairs out the way, not making too much noise. Young children aren’t quiet.
 
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  • #1,289
I know this is a way back but no. There’s absolutely no evidence, even anecdotal, to suggest that prescribed pain medication turns people into child abusers.
Ah yeah i didnt think they turn people into child abusers! Just looking for reasons for her agression. But the more I am reading the more i am thinking she is just a horrid person to her core
 
  • #1,290
I thought the cross-examination of TH was very short and I can't decide whether the prosecutor got all the material he needed in that, or if he was beating a dead horse and gave up. I think more likely he got everything and I feel we didn't get everything in the reporting.

A few quotes from yesterday that damaged his defence, IMO. I think there is a lot more but these stood out to me as being very relevant to his awareness -


"Mr Hankin says Hughes was on Tustin's side when he supposedly 'covered' for her in his police interview.

Hughes: "I was not on her side. She was pregnant with our child. I wanted to protect that child. I had just lost one child, I didn't want to lose another one. The only way to protect that child was to protect Emma."

He would only protect Emma if Emma caused harm. There's the knowledge.

[Conversation from the van -

"Tustin: "What have they said to you?"

Hughes: "I basically held my hands up and said it's all me."

Further on in the conversation he added: "I expect to be charged with murder tonight. I will get charged on it. I have said you should be treated as a witness not a suspect. I begged for it."]


"Hughes accepts it 'crossed my mind slightly' that his continued treatment of Arthur would lead to him suffering more serious harm."


And from his evidence in chief -

"Mr Richmond asks why Arthur wore the same onesie from June 12 until he collapsed four days later.

Hughes: "I couldn't tell you why. I had a reason at the time. I can't recall what it was."

Mr Richmond points out it was a fleece onesie and it was the middle of summer.

Hughes suggests Arthur may have had to wear it because of his bruises or because there may have been a 'disagreement' if he put him in other clothes."


"Mr Richmond asks why Arthur did not go back to school when it re-opened on June 8...

Hughes adds: "It's not that he was thin. He seemed very fragile, that was my concern. It was not how thin he was. He struggled with himself."

This fragility that was in his consciousness, in conjunction with continued physical assaults, is fatal to his case I think.

--

The re-examination after cross-examination (damage limitation) seemed to focus very much on "serious harm"

"Asked whether his assaults caused Arthur 'serious bodily harm' he replies: "I don't think they did. I always hit him on the back of the legs or to the bum."

Hughes says he never had the intention of causing Arthur serious harm but admits he did intend to cause him pain, adding: "I was told he inflicted pain to others in the household so I wanted him to see what he was inflicting on other people."

Hughes confirms he never actually caused serious injury to Arthur after saying things like 'take his jaw off' and 'end him'."
 
  • #1,291
Some testimony from earlier in the trial about Arthur's bruises



Good morning. The trial resumes for day 12.

The next expert witness to give evidence is Dr Matt Lyall, a Home Office forensic pathologist.

He will take us through the external injuries to Arthur's body, the court is told.


Graphics shown to jury represent around 30 marks on Arthur's head


Dr Lyall gives an explanation of a bruise to the jury.

He says: "When there is some kind of contact with the skin, a strike to the skin or the skin striking something else, small blood vessels underneath the skin get torn.

"They are like little pipes carrying the blood. The blood leaks into the surrounding tissues and what that creates is what we see as a bruise."

The court is shown graphics representing a child's head which displays the bruising to Arthur. There are around 30 marks to his head listed across the images.

Dr Lyall proceeds to describe each contusion.


'I'm not sure I've ever seen a child who has died at home with this many injuries to the head and face'

Dr Lyall describes mark number 16, in the centre of Arthur's forehead, as 'a prominent bruise, eye-catching in colour and very distinct'. He tells the court it measures 4.5cm x 6cm and extends upwards merging with another bruise on the top of Arthur's head

Dr Lyall states some of the marks should be discounted because he cannot definitively confirm their origin.

Prosecutor Jonas Hankin asks whether injuries to Arthur's jaw-line are typical of a six-year-old boy.

"Not normally," replies Dr Lyall.

The expert confirms, after discounting medical intervention marks and those with doubts about their origin, there are 25 areas of injury to Arthur's head and neck.

Mr Hankin asks his opinion as to the likely cause.

Dr Lyall: "In my opinion the number of these injuries and the size of some of these injuries should immediately lead to serious concerns about non-accidental injuries."

Mr Hankin: "Is it commonplace to see this many bruises on a child's head and neck at post-mortem?"

Dr Lyall: "Absolutely not. I'm not sure I've ever seen a child who has died at home with this many injuries to the head and face."


Jury told of belief that injuries are 'excessive'


Dr Lyall moves on to bruises found on Arthur's chest and abdomen. Mr Hankin points out there are marks on the opposite side of the body.

Dr Lyall gives an analogy about accidental injuries tending to be on one side of the body only.

He says: "Having injuries on both sides is not conclusive but it's not typical of accidental injury."

The expert confirms there are eight areas of injury to the chest and abdomen and adds: "Again they are not injuries I would immediately attribute to accidental injury."

Next, the marks to Arthur's arms are shown. There are a total of 20 areas of bruising, seven to the right arm and 13 to the left.

Again Dr Lyall caveats that not all can be accounted for.

Mr Hankin asks if the injuries would be typical of 'normal play'.

Dr Lyall: "I think they are excessive. Particularly the bruising to the upper arm, that's not a typical site for accidental injury. There are quite a lot of them. It is quite possible they are caused by gripping."


'Overall pattern' of 'non-accidental injuries', the jury is told

Dr Lyall moves on to the marks on Arthur's legs. He says some of the bruises possibly share 'similar causation to those on the arms'.

The expert tells the court many active six-year-old children would typically have bruises to their knees and shins.

But highlighting a distinctive mark to the back of Arthur's knee Dr Lyall says: "Typically this is a protected area, not an area associated with accidental injury."

Summarising the marks detailed so far he adds: "Here we have a large number of injuries and they are distributed in various places, normally protected and places more associated with inflicted injury.

"As a picture that has to be the favoured interpretation, they are non-accidental. That's the overall pattern."


More discussion of 'inflicted injuries', this time on Arthur's back

Dr Lyall moves to the final area of the body, Arthur's back.

The biggest mark, number 86, measures 3cm x 3cm and is located in the centre on the spine. Dr Lyall confirms however there was no damage to the spinal column itself.

The expert addresses the five areas of injury to Arthur's buttocks which he says are 'strongly associated with non-accidental injury'.

The last numbered mark is 93.

Dr Lyall adds: "In my view they give the impression of inflicted injuries to the back."


'All of these areas are worrisome'

Providing his conclusion Dr Lyall says:

The overall impression is of a child that's suffered inflicted injuries.

The overall pattern, and that's the important thing here, these are inflicted-type injuries.

There are individual injuries in almost any location you could engineer a scenario that could cause them, but when you look at the number, there's a concentration of injuries to the head, multiple, some of them large.

There are multiple bruises to the upper arms, the back, the buttocks, injuries to the thigh, including the inner thigh, bruises on the face. All of these areas are worrisome."

Dr Lyall confirms that he concluded the cause of Arthur's death as 'head injury'. Mr Hankin concludes his questions.

Dad accused of murdering son branded a 'short-tempered, wicked man' - updates
 
  • #1,292
Some testimony from earlier in the trial about Arthur's bruises



Good morning. The trial resumes for day 12.

The next expert witness to give evidence is Dr Matt Lyall, a Home Office forensic pathologist.

He will take us through the external injuries to Arthur's body, the court is told.


Graphics shown to jury represent around 30 marks on Arthur's head


Dr Lyall gives an explanation of a bruise to the jury.

He says: "When there is some kind of contact with the skin, a strike to the skin or the skin striking something else, small blood vessels underneath the skin get torn.

"They are like little pipes carrying the blood. The blood leaks into the surrounding tissues and what that creates is what we see as a bruise."

The court is shown graphics representing a child's head which displays the bruising to Arthur. There are around 30 marks to his head listed across the images.

Dr Lyall proceeds to describe each contusion.


'I'm not sure I've ever seen a child who has died at home with this many injuries to the head and face'

Dr Lyall describes mark number 16, in the centre of Arthur's forehead, as 'a prominent bruise, eye-catching in colour and very distinct'. He tells the court it measures 4.5cm x 6cm and extends upwards merging with another bruise on the top of Arthur's head

Dr Lyall states some of the marks should be discounted because he cannot definitively confirm their origin.

Prosecutor Jonas Hankin asks whether injuries to Arthur's jaw-line are typical of a six-year-old boy.

"Not normally," replies Dr Lyall.

The expert confirms, after discounting medical intervention marks and those with doubts about their origin, there are 25 areas of injury to Arthur's head and neck.

Mr Hankin asks his opinion as to the likely cause.

Dr Lyall: "In my opinion the number of these injuries and the size of some of these injuries should immediately lead to serious concerns about non-accidental injuries."

Mr Hankin: "Is it commonplace to see this many bruises on a child's head and neck at post-mortem?"

Dr Lyall: "Absolutely not. I'm not sure I've ever seen a child who has died at home with this many injuries to the head and face."


Jury told of belief that injuries are 'excessive'


Dr Lyall moves on to bruises found on Arthur's chest and abdomen. Mr Hankin points out there are marks on the opposite side of the body.

Dr Lyall gives an analogy about accidental injuries tending to be on one side of the body only.

He says: "Having injuries on both sides is not conclusive but it's not typical of accidental injury."

The expert confirms there are eight areas of injury to the chest and abdomen and adds: "Again they are not injuries I would immediately attribute to accidental injury."

Next, the marks to Arthur's arms are shown. There are a total of 20 areas of bruising, seven to the right arm and 13 to the left.

Again Dr Lyall caveats that not all can be accounted for.

Mr Hankin asks if the injuries would be typical of 'normal play'.

Dr Lyall: "I think they are excessive. Particularly the bruising to the upper arm, that's not a typical site for accidental injury. There are quite a lot of them. It is quite possible they are caused by gripping."


'Overall pattern' of 'non-accidental injuries', the jury is told

Dr Lyall moves on to the marks on Arthur's legs. He says some of the bruises possibly share 'similar causation to those on the arms'.

The expert tells the court many active six-year-old children would typically have bruises to their knees and shins.

But highlighting a distinctive mark to the back of Arthur's knee Dr Lyall says: "Typically this is a protected area, not an area associated with accidental injury."

Summarising the marks detailed so far he adds: "Here we have a large number of injuries and they are distributed in various places, normally protected and places more associated with inflicted injury.

"As a picture that has to be the favoured interpretation, they are non-accidental. That's the overall pattern."


More discussion of 'inflicted injuries', this time on Arthur's back

Dr Lyall moves to the final area of the body, Arthur's back.

The biggest mark, number 86, measures 3cm x 3cm and is located in the centre on the spine. Dr Lyall confirms however there was no damage to the spinal column itself.

The expert addresses the five areas of injury to Arthur's buttocks which he says are 'strongly associated with non-accidental injury'.

The last numbered mark is 93.

Dr Lyall adds: "In my view they give the impression of inflicted injuries to the back."


'All of these areas are worrisome'

Providing his conclusion Dr Lyall says:

The overall impression is of a child that's suffered inflicted injuries.

The overall pattern, and that's the important thing here, these are inflicted-type injuries.

There are individual injuries in almost any location you could engineer a scenario that could cause them, but when you look at the number, there's a concentration of injuries to the head, multiple, some of them large.

There are multiple bruises to the upper arms, the back, the buttocks, injuries to the thigh, including the inner thigh, bruises on the face. All of these areas are worrisome."

Dr Lyall confirms that he concluded the cause of Arthur's death as 'head injury'. Mr Hankin concludes his questions.

Dad accused of murdering son branded a 'short-tempered, wicked man' - updates

I feel sick after reading that. A few slaps to the legs, really TH
 
  • #1,293
I thought the cross-examination of TH was very short and I can't decide whether the prosecutor got all the material he needed in that, or if he was beating a dead horse and gave up. I think more likely he got everything and I feel we didn't get everything in the reporting.

A few quotes from yesterday that damaged his defence, IMO. I think there is a lot more but these stood out to me as being very relevant to his awareness -


"Mr Hankin says Hughes was on Tustin's side when he supposedly 'covered' for her in his police interview.

Hughes: "I was not on her side. She was pregnant with our child. I wanted to protect that child. I had just lost one child, I didn't want to lose another one. The only way to protect that child was to protect Emma."

He would only protect Emma if Emma caused harm. There's the knowledge.

[Conversation from the van -

"Tustin: "What have they said to you?"

Hughes: "I basically held my hands up and said it's all me."

Further on in the conversation he added: "I expect to be charged with murder tonight. I will get charged on it. I have said you should be treated as a witness not a suspect. I begged for it."]


"Hughes accepts it 'crossed my mind slightly' that his continued treatment of Arthur would lead to him suffering more serious harm."


And from his evidence in chief -

"Mr Richmond asks why Arthur wore the same onesie from June 12 until he collapsed four days later.

Hughes: "I couldn't tell you why. I had a reason at the time. I can't recall what it was."

Mr Richmond points out it was a fleece onesie and it was the middle of summer.

Hughes suggests Arthur may have had to wear it because of his bruises or because there may have been a 'disagreement' if he put him in other clothes."


"Mr Richmond asks why Arthur did not go back to school when it re-opened on June 8...

Hughes adds: "It's not that he was thin. He seemed very fragile, that was my concern. It was not how thin he was. He struggled with himself."

This fragility that was in his consciousness, in conjunction with continued physical assaults, is fatal to his case I think.

--

The re-examination after cross-examination (damage limitation) seemed to focus very much on "serious harm"

"Asked whether his assaults caused Arthur 'serious bodily harm' he replies: "I don't think they did. I always hit him on the back of the legs or to the bum."

Hughes says he never had the intention of causing Arthur serious harm but admits he did intend to cause him pain, adding: "I was told he inflicted pain to others in the household so I wanted him to see what he was inflicting on other people."

Hughes confirms he never actually caused serious injury to Arthur after saying things like 'take his jaw off' and 'end him'."

This is the most damning bit for me:
Hughes accepts it 'crossed my mind slightly' that his continued treatment of Arthur would lead to him suffering more serious harm
 
  • #1,294
I think they will have to be kept in isolation in prison.

In Poland the child murderers are absolutely generally loathed.

I remember when one murderer of a girl was led to a detention centre (before trial) next to a prison, the prisoners somehow got to know about him coming and the whole building was shaking with vile "greetings"!
The noise was heard in the streets.
They shouted "Hang yourself" among other things.
 
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  • #1,295
I think they will have to be kept in isolation in prison.
In Poland the child murderers are absolutely generally loathed.

I remember when one murderer of a girl was led to a detention centre ( before trial) next to a prison, the prisoners somehow got to know about him coming and the whole building was shaking with vile "greetings"!
The noise was heard in the streets.
They shouted "Hang yourself" among other things.
Good enough for them. Are they in prison now while the trial is ongoing?
 
  • #1,296
Good enough for them. Are they in prison now while the trial is ongoing?
While on trial they are kept in special detention centres, next to prisons.
They go to prison when sentenced.
Like the distinction between jail and prison.
 
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  • #1,297
While on trial they are kept in special detention centres, next to prisons.
They go to prison when sentenced.

Aw ok. Didnt realise that. I am not usually a vindictive person but i hope every single hour of every day they spend in prison is pure torture, like what they inflicted on Arthur
 
  • #1,298
Aw ok. Didnt realise that. I am not usually a vindictive person but i hope every single hour of every day they spend in prison is pure torture, like what they inflicted on Arthur
Killers of children are the vilest of the vile in prison hierarchy - the lowest of the low.
The same in society.

Children are treasure - the future of society.
They are also the most vulnerable.
 
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  • #1,299
I asked a prison officer about this a few weeks ago. They're accountable for their actions, and they're employed to protect prisoners. They would face discipline or dismissal if they allowed an attack to occur on either one. The chances ET and TH will face retribution from the other prisoners is very small, but not impossible. We've all heard of other similar criminals receiving jail justice. Many prisoners have experienced abuse and neglect as children, they'll not take kindly to this pair. They'll likely be segregated from the main population, or transfered to prisons with the same type of inmates.
That's if they're found guilty of course. It wouldn't surprise me if we hear about their suicide years from now, if they're sentenced.
 
  • #1,300
I asked a prison officer about this a few weeks ago. They're accountable for their actions, and they're employed to protect prisoners. They would face discipline or dismissal if they allowed an attack to occur on either one. The chances ET and TH will face retribution from the other prisoners is very small, but not impossible. We've all heard of other similar criminals receiving jail justice. Many prisoners have experienced abuse and neglect as children, they'll not take kindly to this pair. They'll likely be segregated from the main population, or transfered to prisons with the same type of inmates.
That's if they're found guilty of course. It wouldn't surprise me if we hear about their suicide years from now, if they're sentenced.
I wonder about killers of Daniel Pelka.
Both died - hanging and heart attack.
 
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