GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

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12:14JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Fitzgibbon: 'I went with Witham to buy nice hash'​

Mr Greaney rises to continue his cross examination of Fitzgibbon.
PG: “Mr Fitzgibbon, I left you on august 10 at Ten Street Social with Niall Barry and others who tended to congregate at 267 Pilch Lane. Do you agree in the days and weeks that followed, you continue to associate with those?”
IF: “Not all the time, just with Sean most of the time. I’d pop down and see him now and again. I’d always be at my girlfriend’s or my nan’s. When I’d see the lads, I'd always been with Sean. I’d pop down to the flat and have a joint.”
PG: “I’m going to take you to August 19. You did attend the Pilch Lane flat. You are with James Witham and Joseph Peers. That’s just before quarter to 8. There, you’re returning from the shop to Pilch Lane. We see you leaving at half past 11 that night. On August 19, you spent approaching four hours in the Pilch Lane flat.”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “We know that the others in the flat, some of them at least, had been on a trip to North Wales that day. Did they tell you they'd been to North Wales?”
IF: “Yeah they said they’d been to collect money.”
PG: “Witham and Barry were telling you they’d been to collect money?”
He agrees
PG: “You would have understood they were collecting money connected with drug dealing?”
IF; “They worked down in Wales yeah.”
PG: “You were in that flat for four hours. On that day, August 19, do you agree the fact that a cannabis grow was underway was obvious?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “It would have been obvious to anyone.”
IF: “The smell would have, but it was in the back room. I only ever seen it once when Kershaw showed me the plants. You could smell the weed.”
PG: “The following day, August 20, you were back in the company of the crew at Pilch Lane. This is 10 oclock in the morning. We see there was comminication between you and James Witham. Your account is he had contacted you to ask you if you wanted to smoke cannabis with him?”
IF: “To see if I wanted to get a chunk of polly off his friend. A chunk of hash, a smoke, off his friend.”
PG: “Over this period of time you yourself were a dealer in cannabis weren’t you?”
IF: “Yeah.”
PG: “Witham was also a dealer in drugs including cannabis?”
IF: “I’ve not known him to sell cannabis, just Class As.”
PG: “Niall Barry who was at 267 Pilch Lane was a dealer in any drug you wanted?”
IF: “Class As and he grew green, which I don’t smoke, I smoke hash.”
PG: “The flat itself, it had a bumper crop of cannabis leaf in it?”
IF: “It had cannabis plants in there yeah.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz is a dealer in drugs including cannabis isn't he. Was then, anyway.”
IF: “I can’t recall whether it was cannabis no, just class As.”
PG: “The question is this. Bearing in mind how closely connected you were with drug dealers and you were a cannabis dealer yourself why did you need to go to a dealer in Walton to buy cannabis.”
IF: “I smoke hash, different dealers sell different flavours of hash. I don’t smoke green. There’s cannabis in that flat but it’s green. I don’t smoke any time of green.”
PG: “You could have asked Barry or Zeisz for hash. Why did you need to go with Witham to buy cannabis?”
IF: “The lad who he knew had nice hash.”
PG: “What’s the name of the person you bought this from?”
IF: “I didn’t know him, it was [Witham’s]friend. Alls I knew was the lad was from Walton.”

12:25JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I don't wanna be called a grass'​

Mr Greaney says: “You then took Witham to Taskers didn’t you?”
Fitzgibbon says: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “You drove him there so he could buy some training shoes?”
IF: “That's correct sir yeah. I had a smoke outside.”
PG: “At 2.54 that afternoon you entered 267 Pilch Lane. By now you were with Joseph Peers?”
IF: “That’s after I dropped James off at his granddad’s. I went to me mum’s got me feet dropped off at the chiropodist. Got Joe and got dropped off outside.”
PG: “That afternoon and evening, you spent most of your time in that flat?”
IF: “Just chilling, having a few joints. Waiting for the boxing to start that evening.”
PG: “You went to go local. Just before 10 to 6 that's you and Joseph Peers in the shop?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “We know that whilst there there was purchased by Peers a top up card?”
IF: “That’s correct yeah.”
PG: “Niall Barry said that also purchased was a sim card for his phone. Do you agree with that?”
IF: “Yeah it looks like there sir yeah.”
PG: “With that new sim card and top up, Niall Barry started to use a different number that night. Do you know why that night of all nights Niall Barry started to use a new phone?”
IF: “I didn't even know he changed his number. The police know I didn’t know he’d changed his number because I called his number later on. I didn’t know he changed his number.”
PG: “Later that evening you went to another shop, Adisco.”
IF: “I went and got another hash before I went there yeah.”
PG: “There you are just before quarter to 8 going out with Joseph Peers, James Witham. There’s the Hyundai on its way. Peers and Witham inside, you are in the car outside?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “This is 20 past 8. CCTV shows an unidentified person on an electric bike approaching the grey Hyundai i30N Performance. Did you say before going to Adisco you went to buy cannabis?”
IF: “A little chunk of pollen yeah.”
PG: “Bearing in mind you had many contacts with drug dealers, you were a drug dealer yourself, you had purchased hash only that morning, why was it necessary?”
IF: “Two grams is not necessarily gonna last you. The people I was sitting with that day didn’t sell hash. I had to phone hash dealers.”
PG: “You give an account of Witham being supplied with cocaine by the person on the electric bike.”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Who was it that supplied that to him?”
IF: “A friend we know of from the local area.”
PG: “Would you tell me please, what his name is?”
IF: “No sir. I’ve got two little sisters and a mum. You’re going to get me into trouble by trying to get me to name people. I need to worry about meself.”
PG: “You gave a defence statement in this case on October 11 this year. After the trial had started. I’m going to ask you about one passage. Did you take care to set out your position in your defence statement?
IF: “I got most of me points across yeah, but today is the main point for me.”
PG: “You knew the defence statement was an important document?”
IF: “I put down nearly everything I can remember. But the main point is to tell my truth on the stand today.”
PG: “I’m going to ask about something you told the jury about that isn't in your def statement. You say the accused left Pilch Lane at around 7.42 in company with w and p as they were going to purchase more cannabis from an associate in Jeffereys crescent. They then travelled to Adisco to purchase alcohol for the fight. The accused waited outside as Witham and Peers went into the shop. He ended up seeing a friend. They spoke for a short period. Thereafter all three returned to Pilch Lane. The point will be obvious. The acquisition by Witham of cocaine, there is not a word about that?”
IF: “Not about buying cocaine.”
PG: “Why is there no mention of that detail in your defence statement?”
IF: “I don’t wanna be called a grass. It’s for James Witham to tell you what he ordered that night and what he was sniffing.”
PG: “It’s 23 minutes past 8 and you have not yet returned to Pilch Lane. Food is being delivered. A minute later, the return of the Hyundai to the area. There you are, 27 minutes past, you Peers and Witham returning to the flat.”
IF: “Thats correct sir yeah.”
PG: “And so by this stage you have spent many hours in the flat and associated with others who were there?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “I hope you'll understand the way in which I put it. That day and that night you were fully rooted with the group at 267 Pilch Lane.?”
IF: “What do you mean by rooted sir?”
PG: “You were associating with those at 267 Pilch Lane?”
IF: “Just chilling having a couple of joints, waiting for the boxing to start.”

12:34JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Peers and Witham 'left together, to do something together'​

Mr Greaney says: “We have moved through those events quite quickly to show the length of time you were there. We will now come to more important events.”
PG: “This is Witham and Peers departing the flat at 9 minutes past 10. They left the flat together?”
Fitzgibbon: “Yes sir that's correct.”
PG: “When they left they said they were going to the home of Peers’s mother?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “Your understanding was Witham and Peers were leaving the flat together to do something together?”
IF: “To go to Joe’s mum’s. They went to Joe’s mum’s together.”
PG: “They were leaving together to do the same thing together?”
IF: “They were leaving to go to Joseph Peers’s mum’s house.”
PG: “On your account There was no fuss when they left?”
IF: “Witham wanted to order more cocaine to the flat, Barry never allowed it because there’s a grow in there.”
PG: “We have heard evidence from Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz that Witham was told to leave by Niall Barry?”
IF: “I can’t remember that Witham was told to leave like.”
PG: “On your account there was no fuss of that sort when Witham and Peers left?”
IF: “No Witham weren't’ told to leave. Just Barry made comments to him, you’re not ordering cocaine to the flat. They said they was going to Joe’s mum’s.”
PG: “They were departing at nine minutes past 10. The ringwalks for the Joshua Usyk fight were to take place at 11pm.”
IF: “That’s correct.”
PG: “They were leaving less than an hour before the ringwalks.”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “When they left, you had no expectation they would return that night did you?”
IF: “What do you mean sir.”
PG: “When they left your understanding was they were going to the home of Peers’s mother?”
IF: “Yeah they said they was going to Joe’s mum’s.”
PG: “There was no thought in your mind that they were going to return to 267 Pilch Lane?”
IF: “Er yeah, they said they’re coming back to watch the boxing when I text James to say are yous coming back to watch the boxing.”
PG: “I don’t believe you told us before they said at that stage they were coming back.”
IF: “When they leave I text james to say are yous coming back to watch the boxing.”
PG: “But when they left, nothing was said about coming back was it?”
IF: “They just said they was going to Joe’s mum’s.”
PG: “When they left what was there to make you think they would be coming back?”
IF: “We was all meant to watch the boxing together. We’d bought alcohol to watch the boxing.”
PG: “You’d been told they’d been going to the home of Joe’s mother. T
IF: “He lives around the corner. It’s five minutes away, it doesn’t take 50 minutes to go to his mum’s and back.”
PG: “They were going to be there not 267 Pilch Lane.”
IF: “You’re never making sense what you’re saying.”
PG: “It’s making sense to others. When they left saying they were going to Joe’s mother’s what made you think they might come back.
IF: “The Anthony Joshua fight was on that night that we were all meant to watch. They said they’re going to Joe’s mum’s which is five minutes round the corner from the flat.”
PG: “Did you ask them why are you going to Joe’s mums, the fight is going to start soon.”
IF: “No I’m not going to ask the lad why are you going to your mum’s.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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12:41JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'You were in contact with the hit team'​

Mr Greaney says: “Let’s go to the calls please. This is 22.18. You send a message to Witham. this is just nine minutes after he has left.”
Fitzgibbon says: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “This is probably, the Crown suggest, during the period he’s picking up the firearm. That message was to see how he was getting on with the plot?”
IF: “That’s untrue sir.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz and Niall Barry both said Witham was asked to leave. The Crown’s case is that’s lies. You say you’d never heard it.”
IF: “I didn't hear them telling him to get out. I heard comments off Barry saying not to order cocaine to the flat.”
PG: “If he’d been asked to leave it would have been odd for you to message him nine minutes later asking him if he was coming back?”
IF: “Yeah but he weren't asked to leave. They said they was going to Joe’s mums.”
PG: “At 23 minutes past 10, again you are in touch with Witham.”
IF: “He replied saying yeah he would be coming back round to watch the boxing.”
PG: “You were seeing how the plot was progressing.”
IF: “That’s untrue sir. On my personal phone that I speak to my family on. No, I weren't.”
PG: “What do you say those messages were about?”
IF: “I text saying are yous coming back. He said yeah. I said bring a polly. I had a chunk of polly that’s not gonna last us through the boxing. Innocent text messages. Me own personal phone I speak to my family.”
PG: “We now know about an hour later James Witham was involved in slashing the tyres on Ashley’s car.”
IF: “I don’t know nothing about that sir.”
PG: “We know about two hours after you had these exchanges with Witham, he was shooting Ashley dead.”
IF: “Say that again.”
PG: “Just over two hours after you were exchanging text messages with James Witham he shot Ashley dead with a machine gun.”
IF: “I was told the next day. I would never let that kid go near Ashley or Lee. I never wanted no harm to come to them.”
PG: “He was texting you to say he was coming to watch the boxing and agreeing to get cannabis.”
IF: “He said he was going to Joe’s mum’s and he left.”
PG: “This is you checking how the plot was progressing.”
IF: “You’ve got it all wrong Sir. What you’re saying is completely wrong.”
PG: “It’s now six minutes past 11. Getting nearer and nearer to the events Witham was involved in. you are seeking to contact him again.”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “Then you’re contacting Joseph Peers.”
IF: “Yeah. Witham never answered the phone. I thought he was with Joe. They said they was going to Joe’s mum’s.”
PG: “23.08, another message to Witham.”
IF: “That’s when the call forwarded. That’s the call catcher sir.”
PG: “Between six minutes past and seven minutes past 11 you were attempting to contact both Witham and Peers.”
IF: “At 10 past 11, the fight began.”
PG: “That was less than half an hour before the attack on the car. The reason you were making that contact is you were all in it together.”
IF: “That's untrue. I’d never let him harm Lee or Ashley. They’re me friends.”
PG: “At quarter to one, you leave. The job done.”
IF: “No sir. I left after the boxing fight finished. I text me sister to pick me up. I left when my sister text me saying she was outside.”
PG: “Later that day, August 21, you continued to be in the company of Zeisz and Barry.”
IF: “They turned up at my flat.”
PG: “There you are at 5.33 that day with Niall Barry. 20 past 6, there you are exiting 267 Pilch Lane, At 5 to 7 in the shop virtually next door, at 5 past there you are again with Niall Barry. the reason that you continued to be in the company of those men that day was because you together with them and Peers and Witham had been involved in the plan to kill lh which had resulted in Ashley’s death.”
IF: “That’s not true sir. There was also Michael Kershaw the man who was in that flat. Witham returned to the flat and told him what he’d done.”
PG: “Michael Kershaw didn’t make attempts to contact the hit team. You’re standing trial because you had chosen a side and were in contact with them to see how the plot was progressing.”
IF: “You’ve got it completely wrong."


13:01KEY EVENT

Fitzgibbon: 'I spoke to Lee Harrison after shooting'​

Mr Greaney says: “Well let’s see if I am also wrong about this. In the aftermath of the killing of Ashley you went to Dubai.”
Fitzgibbon says: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “Your case is you left this country and went to Dubai for two main reasons. First because you feared retaliation and the thought your mother and sisters might be attacked. Second, you feared you might be wrongly implicated.”
IF: “Exactly what’s happened today, that’s correct sir.”
PG: “Did you think the Hillsiders might retaliate?”
IF: “I thought many people might retaliate. An innocent girl who was a diamond has been killed. People aren't gonna leave it at that. I’ve been around the lad who done it the day before.”
PG: “Did you think the retaliation might come from the Hillsiders?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “How was running to Dubai going to protect your mother from retaliation?”
IF: “I was never running to Dubai. I left cos my sister’s birthday was on the 27th. I didn’t want to get dragged into anything from being around James Witham.”
PG: “You’d left because you feared retaliation and being implicated. I’m asking you how running to Dubai was going to project your mother or sisters.”
IF: “I spoke to Lee. Lee wanted to meet me in Dubai. I’d gone to Spain. Lee knows this has got nothing to do with me. I was not involved in this crime.”
PG: “I am sure you appreciate the point I am building towards is that you left this country to avoid responsibility for your wrongdoing. But for now let’s stick with your case. This was fear of retaliation. You told us you had spoken to Lee Harrison.”
PG: “He wanted to meet me in Dubai.”
IF: “I don't believe you’ve ever said that before, either in your defence statement or to this jury.”
PG: “I’m giving the evidence to the jury now. My main points are now, on the stand to speak to the jury and my Lord.”
IF: “Your case is by the time you went to Dubai you knew Witham had done the shooting and killed Ashley.”
PG: “I was told the next day yeah.”
IF: “The simple step was to bring to the attention of the police what you knew. You did nothing to inform the authorities what you say you knew.”
PG: “No sir I’m a coward for not. I don't want nothing to happen to my mum and little sisters. I wanted to stay out of it.”
IF: “Instead you sat in Dubai month after month enjoying myself”
PG: “I wasn’t enjoying myself. Things can get out, if it comes out I phoned the police over an argument I heard second hand, where does that leave me or my family. I just wanted to stay out of it.”
IF: “You sat month after month in Dubai enjoying yourself.”
PG: “I weren't enjoying myself. Inside, I felt the same way.”
Mr Cooper, representing Fitzgibbon, rises and objects. JC: “ For 24 hours my learned friend has been making comment after comment. So far I have said nothing, it is right the jury hears the prosecution case. I will now ask him to stop prefacing his questions by making comments.”
Justice Goose replies: “I understand the point you are making. But you might recall you did so yourself without objection. I am sure Mr Greaney will listen to the point you have made.”
Mr Greaney says: “I am simply trying to provide context to the questions I am asking you.”
Fitzgibbon: “You can ask me whatever you want. What you’re saying to me is untrue.”
PG: “You remained shocked and scared in Dubai?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “You weren't enjoying yourself. In a moment I'm going to show you a photograph. I’m going to ask if this is a photograph of you shocked and scared. It’s dated 27th of August, within a week of Ashley’s death.”
IF: “Me sister’s birthday yeah.”
The picture is shown to the court.
It shows Fitzgibbon sat in a restaurant with his sister. A man and woman are also in the image, but their faces have been blurred out.
PG: “Are you on the terrace of the Galliard Hotel in Dubai in front of that famous sculpture with the Burj Khalifa in the background.”
IF: “We went there for my sister’s birthday.”
PG: “Is that you shocked and scared
IF: “Inside, I felt the same. I’m not gonna cry on the picture. Facing me is my nan and granddad. Because I'm smiling on a picture it doesn’t change how I feel. It’s a picture for my sister’s birthday.”
PG: “The truth is you went to Dubai to escape the consequences of what you had done that night.”
IF: “That's untrue. I’m not involved.”
PG: “You went to Dubai, staying there and in Spain for nearly 12 months seeking to hide from your involvement in that plot to kill Lee Harrison which resulted in the death of Ashley Dale.”
IF: “That's untrue. He's my friend. When I went to Spain, my mum received a letter saying no further action. My girlfriend got pregnant. I didn't know I was wanted until I got stopped in Spain and got arrested.”
Mr Greaney has no further questions, and Mr Cooper says he has no questions in reexamination.
The court will now break for lunch, resuming at 2pm.

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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14:11KEY EVENT

Gunman James Witham gives evidence​

Mr Justice Goose returns to court.
The case for Ian Fitzgibbon is closed, and the jury will now hear from James Witham. Witham, wearing a dark blue jumper over a white shirt and blue jeans, is escorted to the witness box.
Richard Pratt, KC, defending Witham, will begin his examination in chief.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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14:18JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham 'previously convicted of false imprisonment'​


Mr Cooper says: “That’s the case for Mr Fitzgibbon.”
Mr Pratt says: “We call James Witham.”
Witham is sworn in on the bible.
He gives his full name as James William Witham.
RP: “Were you born on 16th july 1982?”
JW: “Yes that’s correct.”
RP: “You’re now 41 years of age?”
JW: “Yes.”
RP: “In 2022 of last year, you lived at an address on Ashbury Road in Huyton?”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “Also resident there is your father?”
JW: “Yes.”
RP: “We know you also have a sister called Julie?”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “You have a son who is about 12 years of age?”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “And you have a much younger baby, to different mothers. They live with their mothers?”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “When you left school did you achieve an apprenticeship in joinery?”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “It’s right to say that you have had since your teenage years a number of appearances before the court. I’m going to summarise them. Beginning in the juvenile court, you had convictions including burglary non-dwelling, assault and possession of cannabis. You have numerous offences of possession of cannabis. At 19, assault occasioning actual bodily harm. In December 17, 2003, at this court, did you receive your first prison sentence.”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “27 months for offences involving the possession and supply of cannabis and also false imprisonment?”
JW: “Yes.”
RP: “Was the offence of false imprisonment linked to the supply of drugs?”
JW: “Basically yeah.”
RP: “What was involved in pleading guilty to false imprisonment. What had you done?”
JW: “I took a deal. I got picked out in the id parade. I ended up taking it for the lads I got nicked with. I was only young.”
RP: “Did that involve violence by you?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “As you gr.ew older, offences involving aggravated vehicle taking. Then if we fast forward to an event in September 2016. You have a conviction in Aberdeen Sheriff Court for being concerned in the supply of controlled drugs?”
JW: “Yes.”
RP: “You received 24 months imprisonment.”
JW: “Yeah, correct.”
RP: “Following your release, you have offences involving the possession of cannabis and cocaine?”
JW: “That’s correct.”
RP; “It's been said you have been involved in the supply of class A drugs.”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP “You have in these proceedings pleaded guilty to manslaughter?”
JW: “Yes correct.”
RP: “Have any of your previous convictions involved the use or possession of a firearm?”
JW: “No, never.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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14:26JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'I never worked for Niall Barry'​

Mr Pratt says he will now ask about Witham’s relationship with his co-defendants and others involved in the case.
RP: “How long have you known Joseph Peers?”
JW: “Roughly about 10 years.”
RP: “How did you get to know him?”
JW: “Festivals, years ago.”
RP: “Is he somebody you would class as a friend?”
JW: “Recently since Rikki Warnick’s death i've got closer to him. By going to that flat on 267 Pilch Lane.”
RP: “Kallum Radford, is he somebody you knew?”
JW: “I've only ever met him once in my life.”
RP: “Sean Zeisz, how long have you known him?”
JW: “Roughly around the same time.”
RP: “About 10 years?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “Is he somebody you class as a friend?”
JW: “Not really no.”
RP: “What about Niall Barry?”
JW: “Known him about 12 years.”
RP: “Is he somebody you've been on friendly terms with?”
JW: “Yeah yeah, never had a dispute with him.”
RP: “Have you had a working association with him regarding drugs?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “It’s been suggested you worked for him
JW: “No no, that’s wrong that. No.”
RP: “Finally Ian Fitzgibbon. how do you know him?”
JW: “Known of him about two years but started speaking to him through Rikki Warnick’s funeral.”
RP: “David McCaig, do you know him?”
JW: “Known David McCaig all my life.”
RP: “What’s your relationship with him/”
JW: “He’s a friend, yeah yeah.”
RP: “What about Dillon Cain.”
JW: “I don't know Dillon, no.”
RP: “Michael Kershaw?”
JW: “Known him roughly about two years, I know his bigger brother more than him.”
RP: “Jordan Thompson?”
JW: “I don't know him. I’d know to let onto him, but not as friends.”
RP: “Rikki Warnick, how well did you know him?”
JW: “The same, just see him out at festivals and parties all the time.”
RP: “Was he a close friend of yours?”
JW: “I wouldn't say that, no no.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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14:29JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham 'used to be friends' with Lee Harrison​

Mr Pratt asks: “Do you know Lee Harrison?”
Witham says: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “How long have you known Lee Harrison.”
JW: “About 10 years.”
RP: “Has he been somebody you regarded as a friend?”
JW: “The last five years, I wouldn't say so.”
RP: “Before then were you friends.”
JW: “Yeah, I’d have a spliff with him and that. I've been in his and he’s been in mine as well.”
RP: “What about Ashley Dale?”
JW: “I've met her numerous times when she’s been with Lee.”
RP: “Have you met her when she’s not been with Lee?”
JW: “No, never.”
The jury are shown a picture of Witham with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale at a festival.
RP: “Do you know where that was taken?”
JW: “Glastonbury.”
RP: “Was it taken at Glastonbury 2022?”
JW; “The one before that, the one before lockdown I think.”
RP: “Not in the summer of 2022, but an earlier stage?”
JW: “That’s correct.”

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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14:35JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'Lee Harrison had been robbing me for five years'​

Mr Pratt says: “I’m going to ask you more about your drug dealing. What drugs were you dealing in 2022?”
Witham says: “Just crack and heroin.”
RP: “Crack cocaine?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “They are class A drugs?”
JW: “Class A yeah.”
RP: “In what quantities were you supplying those?”
JW: “Just in £10 bits basically.”
RP; “Is that the sort of level that would be described as street level?”
JW: “Basically street level yeah.”
RP: “In what area would you be supplying those drugs?”
JW: “Wales, Blackpool and scotland. Numerous places where I go.”
RP: “Did you have people working for you?”
JW: “Er, not really. I normally do it meself.”
RP: “Were you working for anybody else?”
JW: “No just working on me own.”
RP: “You said before that you’d had a relationship with Lee Harrison where you’d smoked spliffs at each other’s houses. You wouldn’t say over the last five years he’d been a friend?”
JW: “That’s correct.”
RP: “What happened between you that changed your relationship?”
JW: “He owed me money once. He went missing for years. I found out he’s robbed me mate’s house, he’s robbed me crop and he’s tried to rob me graft in Wales as well. I had a crop in lockdown, he robbed that as well. There’s a camera next door, it was him that done it. He was denying it.”
RP: “What was the value of the crop?”
JW: “About 30, 40 grand.”
RP: “He was trying to rob your graft, what does that mean?”
JW: “I’ve had me mates working in Wales with me. He’s trying to rob them all the time, I can’t sell in Wales. It’s his turf he’s saying.”
RP: “Does it follow that Lee Harrison also pursued drug dealing activities in North Wales?”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP: “Over what period of time was he doing these things?”
JW: “In lockdown, I had a crop there and he robbed that. He’s robbed me mates’ house. There was 30 grand in the car and he’s robbed that.”
RP: “What was the most recent things?”
JW: “About six eight weeks ago. Before September, before the shooting happened, he robbed me graft in Wales…..He took the phone off him, he took all me numbers out of it. I left me phone with me mate up there that was grafting.”
RP: “The numbers are the numbers of drug users. A phone with their numbers is important to you?”
JW: “Basically yeah yeah.”
RP: “We’ve heard about a Ky;le Line, is that the sort of thing we’re talking about”?
JW: “I go by numerous names up there.”
Mr Justice Goose interjects: “You said something else?”
JW: “He robbed me mates car with 30 grand in it and he robbed the crop. For the last five years basically. The money was in a car.”
Mr Pratt returns to the phone
RP: “That meant he had access to your customers?”
JW: “Yeah that’s correct, yeah.”
RP: “For those reasons, how did you feel towards him?”
JW: “Just stressed out. He’s been doing it for me the last five years, causing problems to me life.”

14:40JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I recognised Ashley's car'​

Mr Pratt displays five phone numbers, which Witham agrees he was using.
He asked if Witham had any others
JW: “I had an iPhone, it had me Snapchat and me Facebook on it.”
RP: “Was that device recovered by the police?”
JW: “No.”
Witham is shown photographs of vehicles including Ashley Dale’s Volkswagen T-Roc.
RP: “Did you know that was her vehicle?”
JW: “Er yeah. I’ve seen her in it.”
RP: “With Lee?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “It was a vehicle you associated with both of them?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “There is the Audi S3 which is said to be a vehicle used by you David McCaig and Niall Barry. whose vehicle was this?”
JW: “That’s my vehicle.”
RP: “It’s a vehicle we know was in Glastonbury, or in Somerset, in June 2022?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “How long had you had that Audi S3?”
JW: “About two to three months.”
RP: “Where had you got it from?”
JW: “I had a focus, I part exchanged it from a garage in Leeds.”
RP: “Are you someone who keeps cars for a long time or not.”
JW: “Not really, no.”
RP: “As far as this car was concerned, as far as you were concerned, did you own it?”
JW: “Yes.”
RP: “Did you control it?”
JW: “Yeah yeah it was my vehicle.”
RP: “You can see there are text messages between Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz where it would appear Niall Barry is playing a part in the disposal of that vehicle?”
JW: “Er yeah.”
RP: “How did that come about?”
JW: “I asked him to see if he could try and sell it for me. “
RP: “If he had sold it for you would there have been anything in it for him.”
JW: “I only wanted 10 grand for it, he said he’ll get 12 for it or 11.”
RP: “That would have been his profit for it.”
JW: “Yeah that’s correct.”

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14:50JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'Glastonbury knife was mine'​

Mr Pratt says: “I’m going to ask you now about another topic, 267 Pilch Lane. How did you come to be visiting those premises?”
Witham says: “I used to go and see Niall there and David McCaig.”
RP: “When was the first time you went there?”
JW: “I think it was around Rikki Warnick’s funeral again there. I started to go and see them there.”
RP: “Were you aware that the property was being used to grow and cultivate cannabis?”
JW: “Yeah I was aware yeah.”
RP: “Was that your crop?”
JW: “No no it wasn’t mine. There was one there.”
RP: “Would you ever stay overnight.”
JW: “I had a couple of times when I fell asleep on the couch and was up early.”
RP: “Did you see any of your other co-defendants there?”
JW: “Michael Kershaw, Joseph Peers and Sean Zeisz. I seen Ian a couple of times there.”
RP: “Did you know who lived there?”
JW: “I thought it was Kershaw’s flat.”
RP: “The suicide of Rikki Warnick and his funeral. As far as you were concerned, how affected were you by the suicide of Rikki Warnick.”
JW: “I didn’t really know him but it affected a few people.”
RP: “The time you were in Glstonbury using the Audi, we know you were stopped by police officers. You were staying at the Pig and Wheel public house. Niall Barry was also there. Was it just the two of you?”
JW: “There was about 10 people staying there.”
RP: “When we look at the holdall that’s been mentioned in this case. Whose holdall was that?”
JW: “That was mine that.”
RP: “We remember the knife being found by a police officer. We see the photograph of the knife. Do you know whos knife that was?”
JW: “That was mine yeah.”
RP: “Why did you have a knife with you in Glastonbury?”
JW: “It was with me fishing stuff, I just threw it in there. I forgot it was in there to be honest with you.”
RP: “Did you have it there as a weapon?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “Do you carry knives as weapons?”
JW: “Erm no.”
RP: “The vehicle was returned. Arrangements were made for somebody to collect it for you?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “At Glastonbury last summer, were you aware of any issue regarding Sean Zeisz and Dusty?”
JW: “Er no no, until I got home and I found out. I didn’t hear nothing about it until I got home.”
RP: “Did you hear of any incident in which Sean Zeisz had been assaulted?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “Did you hear of any incident at which allegedly a knife had been used to threaten?”
JW: “Er no, I’ve heard nothing no.”
RP: “Or a knife being used to indicate Lee Harrison would be stabbed?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “The events that the jury have heard about, were you present when any of those things happened?”
JW: “No not that I can recall no.”
RP: “Were you made aware they were happening?”
JW: “No, I found out on the sequence of events.”
RP: “Nobody had discussed the events at Glastonbury involving Sean Zeisz with you.”
JW: “Not with me, I just heard off other people.”
RP: “Tell us about what you heard.”
JW: “That he got punched in the nose in Glastonbury. I thought nothing of it though.”
RP: “Do you remember who told you?”
JW: “I thought it was David McCaig or Kershaw in the flat a few days after. Just that he’s had a fight, that’s all. I thought nothing of it.”
RP: “The jury has heard evidence involving communications from Ashely Dale and her friends. Firstly there was a group in which she was involved. Do you know any of the people involved in that?”
JW: “No.”
RP: “Much of the discussion that took places surrounded what is said to be a dispute between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry.”
JW: “Years ago that though, I thought it was already nipped in the bud. About five or six years ago that.”
RP: “You were aware of problems between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison?”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “You thought it got nipped in the bud.”
JW: “It was that long ago, I thought they were still mates again. I got told Lee robbed him with his mates.”
RP: “Were you aware of any suggestion any dispute had been reignited during the summer of 2022?”
JW: “Er no no.”

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15:03JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'Barry called Harrison a rat'​

The jury are shown pictures of Niall Barry, James Witham and Michael Kershaw by a swimming pool on June 16 2022, Witham’s birthday.
Witham says this was taken “in Norwich”
Mr Pratt asks: “Why were you in Norwich with Niall Barry and Michael Kershaw?”.
JW: “My mate was staying in Great Yarmouth and it was my birthday. We ended up getting a hotel for my birthday. It was like a mansion with a pool.”
RP: “Essentially self-catering?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
Mr Pratt moves to July 26.
RP: “It is said that you and your number is cell siting in the same area as the Kyle Line.”
JW: “That’s correct.”
Mr Pratt refers to the set of agreed facts.
Niall Barry and James Witham “both had possession and use of the Kyle Line” in relation to the supply of heroin and crack in North Wales.
RP: “It was a line used by you?”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “Was it a line you owned yourself?”
JW: “Yeah yeah correct.”
RP: “Did others use it?”
JW: “Yeah, what it was we met Niall in Wales the end of January. I’ve ended up buying him out of the phone and kept the phone myself.”
RP: “Was the Kyle Line your only phone?”
JW: “I go my different names. Kyle, Pete or Tommo. I kept that name.”
RP: “When you used the Kyle Line, were you working for anybody?”
JW: “No I was working for myself.”
RP: “And if anybody else used the phone were they working with you.”
JW: “I couldn’t tell you.”
Mr Pratt says: “It looks like, on this day, you are in North Wales. You appear to be in the area of Rhyl, North Wales, and the Kyle Line is also there?”
JW: “Yeah that’s correct.”
RP: “I want to ask you about the phone calls. They begin with calls you make to Lee Harrison. firstly, how did you come by Lee Harrison’s number?”
JW: “I was walking through Rhyl and seen one of his mates. He said Lee’s trying to get hold of you, here’s his number. He actually phoned him.”
RP: “He spoke to you and said Lee wanted to speak to you and gave you his number?”
JW: “Basically yeah.”
RP: “When you make the first of, there are three calls there between 16.46 and 16.57. How many of those do you think you actually spoke to him on?”
JW: “Er, the first one. He’s just denying all the stuff I put to him. He keeps denying it, he’s never done nothing. He’s never robbed me. I know he did it, I spoke to his mate on the phone first and got the number off his mate. He was expecting a call yeah.”
RP: “What were you saying to him?”
JW: “Calling him, saying he’s a 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. He’s robbed me a few times. He was working with Niall at the time. I give him work and he went missing for about a year. I never seen him. In that phone call, he’s said he give money to Niall.”
RP: “He owed you money?”
JW: “He told me that Niall’s picked it up and he’s given it to Niall.”
RP: “In the course of this 34 second phone call, he’s saying he did repay the money by giving it to Niall?”
JW: “Basically yeah.”
RP: “The next thing that happens is Niall Barry phones you and you speak to him for five minutes and 25 seconds.”
JW: “Basically I was arguing with Niall over it. He’s saying he’s lying, basically.”
RP: “You were saying to Niall Barry he’s had the money from Lee Harrison?”
JW: “I was just going on what Lee told me. [Niall] was saying he’s chatting s*** lad, he’s a rat. He hasn’t.”
RP: “What follows are there are two very short calls forwards, where calls where Lee Harrison has phoned your number but it has gone to voicemail. Then there are three text messages. Can you recollect the content of those text messages?”
JW: “Cos he tried to ring me, I blanked them. Them messages are call catchers.”
RP: “Automated?”
JW: “Yeah. i couldn’t be arsed listening what he was saying to me.”
RP: “You knew he was attempting to call you but you didn’t want to speak to him?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “At 17.02, lh is again attempting to phone you but it goes to voicemail.”
JW: “I’ve just been blanking him.”
RP: “And again a message?”
JW: “A call catcher again.”
RP: “Lee Harrison at 17.04, it says there’s five seconds call. Did you speak to him?”
JW: “No I don’t think I spoke to him no.”
RP: “And then a text message.”
JW: “Trying to get hold of me again yeah.”
RP: “During all of those calls, apart from that first call we see another attempted call by Lee Harrison goes to voicemail followed by a text message. Apart from that first call which lasted 34 seconds, did you have any conversation with Lee Harrison?”
JW: “Er no.”
RP: “Did you make any attempt to contact Lee Harrison after that first call?”
JW: “No, I couldn’t be bothered listening to what he was telling me.”
RP: “Do you remember at 17.53 that you spoke to Niall Barry, the call lasting two minutes and 26 seconds?”
JW: “Just to ask him if he spoke to him, what’s he saying. What are you up to. Gonna see you when I get home.”

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15:08JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'I felt ashamed of being robbed by Harrison'​

Mr Pratt says: “Did you have a place you could stay in North Wales?”
Witham says: “Yeah I had a caravan. I used to stay there a lot.”
RP: “Niall Barry is endeavouring to get your Audi car insured. Did you know he was trying to do that?”
JW: “I asked him to do us a favour while I was out of the way.”
RP: “On July 30, there’s a balloon release for Rikki Warnick. then moving on to the wake at the Ten Streets Social for Rikki Warnick. You are at the back of the photograph (CCTV). You went to that wake?”
JW: “I just went along with me friends to pay respects to Rikki?”
RP: “Were you aware of any tensions going on at that time?”
JW: “Not really no.”
RP: “Were you aware of any tensions between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry?”
JW: “No, not that I’m aware no.”
RP: “Did you have any issues apart from the issues you've told us about with Lee Harrison. Did you have any joint issues with any your co-defendants?”
JW: “I didn't really tell them, I felt ashamed telling them he was robbing me all the time. I kept it to myself.”
RP: “Did you feel the need to get any help or support from your co-defendants?”
JW: “No I felt ashamed I didn't want to tell no one nothing basically.”
Mr Pratt turns to the “acquisition of the Hyundai”
RP: “The Audi goes to Manchester, and the Hyundai comes back to Manchester from Liverpool. It was a part exchange deal. Is there any reason at that stage, is there any reason why you wanted to acquire a Hyundai. This particular Hyundai?”
JW: “Me Audi got took in Glastonbury. I just wanted to get rid of it quick. I asked Davo. Can he swap me car for us. They get me cars all the time.”
RP: “This was to be your vehicle?”
JW: “My vehicle yeah.”
RP: “Did you have any particular use in mind for the Hyundai?”
JW: “Er basically just a nice car yeah. My mate goes drag racing in Scotland, I thought I’d go up there and use it for that to get away for the weekend.”
RP: “There are calls involving you and Niall Barry. what do you think those are about.”
JW: “It looks like he’s trying to get hold of me. I know it was about the car, i was waiting for him to get on me for it.”
RP: “The three of you had been engaged in the transfer of the vehicle and collection of the vehicle?”
JW: “Me and David McCaig, yeah.”

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15:16JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

On Cloudflyer trainers 'bought for nephew'​

Mr Pratt asks: “You went with others to go to Wales didn't you?”
Witham says: “Er yeah correct.”
RP: “Mr McCaig went with you and Mr Barry and Mr Peers. What was your purpose of going to Wales, i think Abergele, at that time.”
JW: “I was going to pick a bit of money up.”
RP: “What purpose did Niall Barry have?”
JW: “He said he had to go and see his mate. He had to go and pick money up off his mate off cannabis.”
RP: “What about Joseph Peers?”
JW: “He was just coming along for a drive and to get out the house.”
RP: “Did you need or want him to come with you to do your business?”
JW: “No Davo just turned up with him.”
RP: “Did Davo have any purpose in going to North Wales?”
JW: “Yeah he just drove for me. I pay him to drive up there.”
RP: “Did something happen when you were in that vehicle on the way back.”
JW: “Yeah, someone smashed into the back of us.”
RP: “Where was this?”
JW: “On the way home from Wales, just before the Wallasey tunnel.”
RP: “Was the vehicle driveable?”
JW: “Driveable but there was no sat nav or lights or nothing on it. Nothing worked, the airbag and that didn’t work on it. Davo said he was gonna fix it.”
RP: “Did he take the vehicle to fix it?”
JW: “He took it that night yeah, overnight.”
RP: “Did he return it to you.”
JW: “Yeah he returned it, yeah.”
RP: “You go into 267 Pilch Lane. You’ve come back and you have entered there with Mr Peers. It looks like Mr Fitzgibbon is there and yourself. Mr Fitzgibbon leaves at 23.30, and Joseph Peers leaves at 21 minutes past midnight. You’re in Pilch Lane, those two have left. Who else was in Pilch Lane that night?”
JW: “I think it was Niall and Michael Kershaw.”
RP: “You wake up on the morning of Saturday, August 20. We see you exiting Pilch Lane. Does it follow you stayed overnight?”
JW: “Yeah I fell asleep on the couch.”
RP: “You are calling Ian Fitzgibbon. it’s a call that lasts 21 seconds.”
JW: “I just phoned to see if he’d take me to go and get a polly off my mate in Walton. We were talking about it the night before.”
RP: “A polly is what?”
JW: “Like hash. It’s not green.”
RP: “A form of cannabis?”
JW: “Yeah. I said I’ll get on you in the morning and take you to Walton to get a polly. I never had a car did I.”
RP: “Did you go to Wales to collect the cannabis?”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “You were collected, you had been in a coffee shop then went across the road to be picked up in the black Volkswagen golf. This is you going into Taskers while Mr Fitzgibbon waits in the car park. You are buying the trainers that we see. The On Cloudflyer, UK size 8.5, and you pay for those with a credit card and they cost £155. Were those trainers being bought for you?”
JW: “No. I was buying them for my nephew.”
RP: “Did you have yourself a pair of On Cloud trainers?”
JW: “Yeah I’d bought a pair about a week ago, exactly the same ones.”
RP: “These were for your nephew.”
JW: “Yeah, an early birthday present for him?”
RP: “How many pairs of trainers did you have.”
JW: “Loads really, I’d say about seven or eight. I just thought for him.”
RP: “How old is he?”
JW: “14 at the time, 15 now.”
RP: “It might be suggested you were buying trainers with a view to wearing them in the events that took place later that night.”
JW: “That’s a load of rubbish, no.”
RP: “At that time, did you have any intention of going to Leinster Road?”
JW: “No I never thought of it no.”

15:22JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham went to pub and for a Thai massage before heading to Huyton​

Mr Pratt says: “There is a call at 11.16, later in the morning now, Joseph Peers sends you a text message and you call him one minute and 30 seconds at 11.16. Do you know what the text message was?”
Witham replies: “To see what you’re up to I think. I told him I'm going the match and that, what are you up to. Are you watching the boxing tonight.”
RP: “You’re an Everton supporter.”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP: “Everton had a home game against Nottingham Forest. were you planning to go to it?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “You did go to it?”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP: “You mentioned boxing.”
JW: “The boxing was on that night. Everyone was gonna watch the boxing later.”
RP: “What did you say to that.”
JW: “I said see what happens later.”
RP: “You were being non committal.”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “Next we see you attempt to call Niall Barry. seconds later, he returns your call and you speak to him for 51 seconds.”
JW: “He said what are you up to. He was asleep when I went out in the morning. I was going to match with Kershaw, be back after.”
RP: “Do you remember what time the game kicked off?”
JW: “3 o’clock.”
RP: “A Saturday 3 o’clock kick off. You use your credit card to buy food at Goodison Park. who did you go to the match with?”
JW: “I went with my dad and my little son, but then I met Kershaw there.”
RP: “When the game finished, did you go back home?”
JW: “No me dad and son went home, I stayed out for a bit with Kershaw. County road. The Thomas Frost.”
RP: “A Wetherspoons on County Road.”
JW: “We had a few drinks yeah. I’d been drinking all day basically.”
RP: “What condition did that leave you in?”
JW: “I was a bit drunk like. We went to a Thai massage at the side of the pub, got a Thai massage then a taxi back to Pilch Lane.”
RP: “It’s now 20 past 7 at night. The game finished around 5 o'clock ish. You’ve been to the pub and had a massage.”
JW: “Yeah.”
Justice Goose calls for a break, with the trial resuming at 3.30pm.

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16:12KEY EVENT

'The worst mistake of my life'​

Mr Pratt says: “What happened then?”
JW: “I went to Leinster Road and stabbed the tyres in the car. I seen the house was in darkness.”
RP: “Did you do anything with your phone at that stage?”
JW: “No I think my phone died at that time, then it come back on.”
RP: “There are a number of CCTV sightings of the Hyundai, which you accept. Were you driving at that time?”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “The Hyundai is picked up by a camera at Broad Green Primary School. At the corner shop on Oak Hill Road. Then it is seen to be travelling down Leinster Road from the direction of Oak Hill Road. At that time, it is 23.36.49. Then the vehicle is picked up at 23.37.59 and 23.38.09, it is turning right onto Prescot Road having come out of Leinster Road. What happened between those two camera images?”
JW: “I just got out the car and stabbed the wheels in the car.”
RP: “You stabbed the wheels of the car?”
JW: “The tyres yeah.”
RP: “Did you know which car it was?”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “You did that why?”
JW: “To see if, I knew, to see if anyone was in the house. Just another precaution. I didn't think anyone was in the house. The alarm would go off the car and someone would come out. Then I'd know someone was in there. I’d have just drove and got off and went straight home.”
RP: “Did slashing the tyres set off the alarm?”
JW; “Correct yeah. I just slashed the tyres and kicked the wheel as well.”
RP: “How many implements did you use to slash the tyres?”
JW: “One.”
RP: “What type of implement?”
JW; “Just a knife. I just slashed, punctured three of the tyres, the alarm went off. I was just stabbing them.”
RP: “Did that cause any difficulty stabbing, slashing the tyres with that knife?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “After you had slashed the tyres and the alarm was activated, what did you then do?”
JW: “Waited for a couple of seconds. After what my mate had told me, I just drove there to Stadt Moers Park.”
RP: “Where did you get the knife?”
JW: “I bought it on Taskers a couple of weeks before from the fishing shop.”
RP: “Where was the knife in the car?”
JW: “Yeah it was in the car, in the side of the door.”
RP: “You told us you got back into your car and decide to drive to Stadt Moers Park.
JW: “Yeah. I don't know what was going through my head. It was the worst mistake i’ve ever made in my life and I’m so sorry for it.”

16:16JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I wanted to shoot up Harrison's spare room'​

Mr Pratt says: “You wanted to send out a warning. In deciding to go to Stadt Moers Park, what were you intending to do?”
Witham: “Go and get that gun and go back and show Lee, give Lee a warning.”
RP: “Why?”
JW: “Go back to the house and give Lee a warning. It was just what was going through my head. I couldn't really tell you.”
RP: “Were you intending to shoot him?”
JW: “No, it was a warning. He’s ruined my life for years.”
RP: “How were you going to use the gun?”
JW: “Just shoot a warning off that’s all.”
RP: “Where?”
JW: “In the house?”
RP: “Anywhere in particular?”
JW; “The spare bedroom, where I know he leaves all his clothes and that.”
RP: “Had you been to 40 Leinster Road before.”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “How recently?”
JW: “About a year before.”
RP: “You say you knew there was a spare bedroom in which he left all his stuff?”
JW: “At the top of the stairs?”
RP: “Had you been upstairs?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “Were you intending to fire shots anywhere else?”
JW: “No. When I’ve barged the door in I’ve run upstairs.”
RP: “It’s just what your intention is at that stage. You were intending to fire shots in the house?”
JW: “In the house, to make a warning to him.”

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16:19KEY EVENT

'I barged door with my shoulder'​

Mr Pratt says: ““We know that from Ashley’s telephone she sent a message saying her car alarm was going off. That would be about that time. We’re going to see how various CCTV cameras have captured the journey that you accept you made to Leinster Road, the second journey you made to Leinster Road. it looks as if, is this right, that you first went to turn left into LR and then reversed back and continued along Oak Hill Road towards Baden Road. Do you remember any of that?”
Witham: “I must have took the wrong turning.”
RP: “Where did you park in Leinster Road in order to go into?”
JW: “Past the house, just on the right a little bit.”
RP: “Having done that, did you when you arrived there and pulled the car over, what did you do?”
JW; “I just sat there for a few minutes thinking what to do. Like a minute, a minute and a half. Just getting the bottle to go and do it.”
RP: “You got out of the car?”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “What did you do?”
JW; “I walked over, looked in the windows, then I just barged the door down with my shoulder.”
RP: “Were there curtains in the windows?”
JW: “Yeah it was darkness, it was black.”
RP: “When the police arrived, there was a television on. Were you aware of that?”
JW; “No no.”
RP: “Were you aware there was a side light on in the front room?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “Did the property look well lit?”
JW; “Black, it looked in darkness to me.”
RP: “What did you then do?”
JW; “Barged it down with my shoulder, the door come off in half, fell to the floor.”

16:21JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'I dug the gun up in Stadt Moers Park'​

Mr Pratt says: “I’ve missed a point that is important, getting the gun at Stadt Moers Park. That is my fault, we skipped it. How did you know where to go?”
Witham: “When I was on the phone to my mate he told me where it was,. Just explained where it was. I knew where it was anyway, I knew exactly where he meant. Just under the archway in Dale’s Row. That's the entrance to Stadt Moers.”
RP: “He told you it was buried. Did you have anything with you to assist?”
JW: “I just grabbed something out of the car, like a little shovel.”
RP: “When you did that, how long did it take to find the gun?”
JW; “About five minutes.”
RP: “Did you know before you went to Stadt Moers Park what type of gun it was?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “What type of gun?”
JW; “He just told me it was a Skorpion.”
RP: “Did you know what that meant?”
JW: “Yeah.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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16:29KEY EVENT

Witham describes moment gun is fired​

Mr Pratt returns to Witham barging the door in at 40 Leinster Road.
RP: “Where did you go then?”
JW: “I went upstairs, top of the stairs, went in the bedroom. Fired the shot at the wall. The gun was an automatic, I lost control of it basically. I went downstairs.”
RP: “What was the state of the lighting?”
JW: “Pitch black basically, you couldn't see nothing.”
RP; “Did you take steps to put it into automatic mode?”
JW: “It must have been like that.”
RP: “Did you take steps to load it?”
JW: “No I just got told where the safety button was.”
RP: “You went upstairs. You fired the shots. Did you say the door was open?”
JW: “I think I opened it.”
RP: “Can you say how long it took for the shots to be discharged?”
JW: “One second.”
RP: “Then you did what?”
JW: “Then I’ve ran down the stairs then, I’ve stepped into the living room and shot at the wall in the ceiling.”
RP: “You came down the stairs, where did you go to?”
JW: “The door to the left.”
RP; “There are three rooms there, living room dining room and kitchen, which room are you talking about?”
JW: “The living room there.”
RP: “The front room was that it?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “We do know of the evidence there was evidence of cartridges found in the dining room.”
JW: “That’s correct.”
RP: “Which room was it you stepped inside to fire the shots?”
JW: “The living room.”
RP: “Are you sure about that?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “The dining room leads onto the kitchen?”
JW: “That’s the dining room there sorry. That’s correct, sorry.”
RP; “How many steps do you think you took inside that dining room?”
JW: “Just two, basically. Two.”
RP: “When you fired the weapon, was it still in automatic mode.”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP: “Where were you aiming?”
JW: “Just at the wall basically, at the ceiling.”
RP; “How long did it take for the shots downstairs to be discharged?”
JW; “The same, about a second.”
RP: “What did you think was going to happen?”
JW; “I didn’t know what I was doing. My head was battered. It’s the worst mistake i’ve ever done in my life and I am so sorry for it.”
RP: “You accept don’t you that one of those shots entered the body and killed Ashley Dale?”
JW: “Sadly yeah.”
RP: “Was that your intention.”
JW: “Definitely not.”
RP: “Did you know she was there?”
JW: “Definitely not no.”
RP: “Did you see her or did you hear her?”
JW: “No.”
RP: “Witnesses have described hearing a scream? Did you hear a scream?”
JW: “No.”
RP: “A witness has described a shout ‘get the 🤬🤬🤬*out of the house.”
JW: “I never heard nothing like that.”
RP: “What were you wearing?”
JW: “A coat with the hood up, a balaclava as well.”
RP: “The witness said the shouting was after two episodes of what she thought was drilling. How many times did you fire those shots?”
JW: “One upstairs and one downstairs, twice?”
RP: “Twice in all.”
JW: “Yeah.”

16:38JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham says suggestion he chased Ashley is 'bulls***'​

Mr Pratt asks: “Were you taking aim at Ashley Dale?”
Witham: “No, no I wasn't no.”
RP: “It's been suggested you pursued her through the house?”
JW: “Thats 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.”
RP: “And fired shots deliberately after her?”
JW; “No never seen her never heard her.”
RP: “Did you have any reason to hurt or kill Ashley Dale?”
JW: “No, she was a lovely girl and I’Im so sorry for doing it. I’ll regret it for the rest of my life.”
RP: “You’ve told the jury about your dispute and what you say Lee Harrison did to you. Did you want to kill him?”
JW: “No, I just wanted to give him a warning basically. I didn't know anyone was in the house.”
RP: “Did you mention to any of your co-defendants you had this intention to send a warning to him or to fire shots at his house?”
JW: “No, I wasn't thinking nothing. That night, that specific time put something in my head When I saw he was in town. I went and done it to give him a warning.”
RP: “Did you intend to cause him serious harm?”
JW: “I never did, no”
RP: “Was this part of a plan that you and your co accused had formed?”
JW: “No, they didn't even know nothing about it.”
RP: “Were you acting on the orders of Niall Barry?”
JW: “No, I wasn’t. No.”
RP: “Were you acting on anyone’s orders?”
JW: “Just on my own order”
That is all the court will hear today.
Justice Goose asks the jury to return at 10.30am tomorrow.
Thanks for following our coverage, we will return with further live updates tomorrow.

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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I missed this one yesterday.
_____

16:06KEY EVENT

Witham: 'I decided to send a warning to Lee Harrison for robbing me'​

Mr Pratt rises to continue his questioning of James Witham.
RP: “We left at 20 past seven on the night of the Saturday. We see you arriving in that taxi and then, together with Michael Kershaw, you are making your way towards 267 Pilch Lane and entering it. Then about 20 minutes or so later, you are seen to leave the flat together with Joseph Peers and Ian Fitzgibon. the footage picks up the Hyundai for the first time that day, it is turning left out of Wyndham Avenue and travelling along Pilch Lane. Did you go out in the Hyundai at that time?”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “How had the Hyundai got there?”
JW: “I put it there in the morning when I met Davo. he picked me up by ours.”
RP: “The vehicle emerges from Milton Avenue, crosses Pilch Lane on route to Adisco food and wine. We see you there. The car pulling in and you and Mr Peers going into the shop. The purpose of going into the shop?”
JW: “To get some drinks and that.”
RP: And what were your plans now for the night?”
JW: “I was waiting for my mate there, I got a bag of cocaine. I was gonna go back to the flat for the night and watch the fight.”
RP: “By that time, had you made plans for the night?”
JW: “Yeah I was gonna watch the boxing.”
RP: “Who was gonna watch the boxing as far as you were concerned?”
JW: “Everyone who was in the flat.”
RP: “You are wearing trainers, are they On Cloud trainers?”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP “Are they the ones you bought that morning?”
JW: “No, the ones I got the week before.”
RP: “You mentioned the person on the electric bike approaching you, is this someone you had been in touch with before that meeting?”
JW: “Correct yeah.”
RP: “What is going on?”
JW: “I got a bag of cocaine off him.”
RP: “Do you want to name the person who sold you cocaine?”
JW: “I just know him as John.”
RP: “That cocaine was purchased for anybody other than you?”
JW: “Just me.”
RP: “Had you had any cocaine on that day before?”
JW: “Yeah I had a bit in the match.”
RP: “How much alcohol had you had?”
JW: “Dunno, a few pints in the match. We got a few drinks out the shop. A bottle of vodka as well.”
RP: “There was some food being delivered to the flat. That was part of the Saturday night entertainment.”
JW: “That’s correct yeah.”
RP: “After you had been to the shop, where did you go?”
JW: “We went to Jeffereys Crescent first and got a polly off one of me mates.”
RP: “Who was the polly for?”
JW: “For all of us really, but for Ian as well.”
RP: “Who was driving?”
JW: “I was.”
RP: “You’d had a lot to drink and had cocaine. How were you able to drive?”
JW: “I was in a state like, but I was still able to drive.”
RP: “We see yourself, Mr Peers and Mr Fitzgibbon walking from the direction of Wyndham Avenue. we see the further arrival of Mr Zeisz. We’re coming to the departure of yourself and Mr Peers at 10 minutes past 10. What was happening in the intervening period there? You had gone back to pl at around half 8 and this is now about an hour and 40 minutes later. What was happening. What were you all doing?”
JW: “Basically U was a bit drunk like, they was just chilling having a joint. I was doing their heads in. I'm a bit erratic when i’ve had a drink. I was on the cocaine as well. I must have been doing people’s heads in, the way i was acting. It was little things what they said. I tried to order cocaine. (Niall) started saying you can’t get it.”
RP: “Did you say NIall Barry said something?”
JW: “He started making a show of me in front of everyone.”
RP: “Tell us what he said or did.”
JW: “Basically saying I can’t do nothing. You can’t order cocaine to here. I’m 41 years of age, I can do what I want. It made me feel, in front of people I had only just started speaking to as well. Belittled me basically.”
RP: “Were you saying anything back to him?”
JW: “Not really. I was just ignoring him basically, carrying on what I was doing. He asked me to leave but I sat there. It went a bit awkward the environment. Joe just had his head down and said I’m gonna watch the fight with me dad me.”
RP: “Joseph Peers said he was going to watch the fight at his father’s?”
JW: “He said I wanna walk round and watch the fight with me dad. He went out. I thought I'll drop you off if you want. I followed him out.”
RP: “Were you forced out?”
JW: “He belittled me. He said you can’t order cocaine here, if you want to get out and go somewhere else. He never threw me out like.”
RP: “You decided that you were going to leave?”
JW: “Yeah I decided to leave.”
RP: “Where were you going to go?”
JW: “I couldn't tell you yano, just out away from them.”
RP: “How were you going to get there?”
JW: “I was in the car.”
RP: “You mentioned something you said to Peers?”
JW: “I said I'll drop you off if you want.”
RP: “What did he say to that?”
JW: “He wasn't happy like but he got in the car with me.”
RP: “the car was parked in Wyndham Avenue?”
JW: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “Where were you planning to go?”
JW; “I dunno, my head was a bit battered. Davo was supposed to get the car fixed but never got it done. I said fly to Davo’s with me see if he is sorting this car out. I was gonna 🤬🤬🤬* off to Scotland the day after.”
RP: “Where does Davo live?”
JW: “In Old Swan somewhere, Oak Hill its called.”
RP: “Where is it in relaton to Pilch Lane?”
JW: “A couple of minutes from there.”
RP: “You’ve been to his house before?”
JW: “Yeah I’ve been a few times. I tried to phone on my iphone. There was no answer at all. I tried to message him on FB messenger, but he never answered.”
RP: “There is a text message from Ian Fitzgibbon. do you remember what that was about?”
JW: “He just said are you coming back to watch the fight.”
RP: “Did you reply to that?”
JW: “I just text back saying yeah ok, I’ll be back soon.”
RP: “Were you planning to go back soon?”
JW: “No I wasn’t.”
RP: “There is a message where you are texting Mr Fitzgibbon. Do you remember what that was?”
JW: “I said I’ll be back round soon.”
RP: “Mr Fitzgibbon sends you a text message?”
JW: “He said if you’re in Joe’s ma’s grab us a polly off Jeffereys Crescent.”
RP: “You reply?”
JW: “Just saying ok.”
,RP: “You told the jury you went to Davo’s and he wasn't in. where did you go to then?”
JW: “Just drove around. I asked Joe can you get a bag of cocaine. He wanted to get a bag of cannabis to watch the fight. We ended up going to Huyton House. I let Joseph use my phone to phone his mate.”
RP: “There are three calls to a man called Barry Westall. Do you know him?”
JW: “I don’t know him personally.”
RP: “Were you using your phone?”
JW; “Joe was using it. I give Joe my phone to use it.”
RP: “It follows Joseph was with you at that time.”
JW: “At that time yeah.”
RP: “From the time you left the flat at 10 past 10 to those phone calls at 22.54, in that 44 minute period had you and Joseph Peers parted company?”
JW: “No. I dropped Joe off about 10 past 11.”
RP: “This is a Hyundai travelling in the direction of Oak Hill Road and a red Volkswagen. There are a number of photos which show them travelling in close proximity. Do you have any knowledge of that red Volskwagen?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “You may remember the cell site evidence of Mr Tarpey. During this period of time, when there were sightings of the Hyundai or a Hyundai, your phone was probably not in the vehicle. That was Mr Tarpey’s evidence. Did you, between the time we’ve just looked at, were you ever not in the Hyundai?”
JW: “No I was driving. I was with Joe at that time.”
RP: “The suggestion is you separated. Mr Peers remained in the Hyundai and you were in a different part of Huyton sourcing the firearm. Is that true?”
JW: “No that's not true.”
RP: “There’s a call forward at 22.43 from Niall Barry’s personal to your number. Were you aware Niall Barry was trying to contact you?”
JW: “No I wasn’t.”
RP: “You were telling us you went to Huyton House in order to purchase drugs?”
JW: “Correct.”
RP: “From there where did you go?”
JW: “Drove to Roby by the church and dropped Joe off at the walk through to his.”
RP: “Just going back, when we were asking about the Hyundai and the Volkswagen. Do you have any recollection of your vehicle being in Glen Road?”
JW: “I can’t remember. I was a bit drunk. I can’t remember where we went.”
RP: “After you went to Huyton House, what did you then do?”
JW: “I dropped Joe off at the church.”
RP: “Having done that, what did you decide then you were going to do.”
JW: “I didn't know what i was gonna do at that time.”
RP; “Were you planning on going back to the flat?”
JW: “I didn’t really want to go back no.”
RP: “Did you have any drugs in the car with you?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
RP: “What drugs did you have?”
JW: “Cocaine, and I got a bag of ket as well. Ketamine.”
RP: “What does ketamine do to you?”
JW: “I couldn’t really tell you what it feels like if you’ve never had it before.”
RP: “Well I assure you I haven't. What sort of emotions does it give you?”
He sighs
JW: “It sends you scatty basically.”
RP: “We can see there is an image of the Hyundai crossing Pilch Lane from Page Moss Lane onto Childwall Lane, and the vehicle turning right onto Milton Drive. Who was driving?”
JW: “I was.”
RP: “Were you with somebody?”
JW: “I was on my own.”
RP: “Can you tell us where you were intending to go.”
JW: “I looked at my Snapchat and seen on someone’s story, I seen Lee Harrison was in town. I saw him with a group of girls. I thought he was with his girlfriend Ashley.”
RP: “On Snapchat, somebody had posted a story. Do you know who?”
JW: “I couldn't tell you no.”
RP: “It told you what?”
JW: “I seen him walking past with a few of his friends. He was out in town.”
RP: “Could you tell where in town?”
JW: “I couldn’t, no.”
RP: “Having seen that, did that make you do anything?”
JW: “Basically it was after the flat when Niall basically made a show of me. I’d only just got to know these lads really, They’re all Lee’s mates I thought. They kicked me out. That Lee’s just stuck in me head then basically.”
RP: “What were you thinking had gone on at the flat?”
JW: “I just thought they was taking the piss out of me basically.”
RP: “Then you saw Lee Harrison on a Snapchat story. What did you decide you wanted to do?”
JW: “I dunno, I just chilled for a minute, had a spliff, had a line, had a bottle of vodka and drove to Leinster Road. I was drinking out a bottle of vodka yeah.”
RP: “Did you know who lived in Leinster Road?”
JW: “I knew Lee lived there yeah.”
RP: “Why were you driving to Leinster Road?”
JW: “I just thought I’m gonna go and make lee, show a warning to this lee. He’s ruined my life for the last couple of years, robbing me all the time, belittling me basically.”
RP: “You wanted to send a warning. What kind of warning did you have in mind?”
JW: “Earlier that day I was in the match and seen my mate, little Dave. His brother’s my good mate. He was speaking to me, saying he was in Spain as he was wanted for Encros.”
RP: “What did you say about his brother in Spain?”
JW: “He ended up phoning him and I ended up speaking to him for about 10 minutes. It was on his brother’s (phone).”
RP: “What was said during that call.”
JW: “Just what he was away for. He was half skint. He had something buried in Stadt Moers Park.”
RP: “Where is Stadt Moers Park?”
JW: “Just by Whiston Lane?”
RP: “What area of Merseyside.”
JW: “Huyton.”
RP: “Where is it in relation to the M57?”
JW: “Just at the side of it. It’s like in a big long circle. There’s four or five entrances to it.”
RP: “I think you told us the friend from Spain was telling you he had something buried in the park?”
JW: “He said it was a gun.”
RP: “Did he say anything more about the gun?”
JW; “If you can try and spin it quick and give the money to his brother. I thought nothing of it cos I was in the match. I said alright then. Just if i can find anyone who would buy it.”
RP: “Did you say yes?”
JW: Correct. No sorry I never said yeah, I said I'll think about it. I never thought nothing of it really.”
RP: “When you had the call were you thinking of retrieving the gun and finding a seller for it?”
JW: “No I never went, never thought nothing about it.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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10:51JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham: 'I didn't know what I'd done'​

Richard Pratt,KC, defending James Witham, rises to continue his examination in chief.
RP: “You’ve told the jury that none of your previous convictions involved any association with firearms. Before August 20 had you ever handled a firearm before?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “If we could resume the sequence of events. The Hyundai is travelling down Leinster Road before turning right onto Prescot Road, driving away from 40 Leinster Road. Who was driving the car?”
JW: “It was me.”
RP: “Were you on your own or with anybody?”
JW: “I was on me own.”
RP: “Where did you go?”
JW: “I just drove down, dropped it my me nan’s. Me dad’s, me nan’s dead but I still call it me nan’s. My home address.”
RP: “Then what did you do?”
JW: “Went to me nan’s for a minute then took a long walk, went and knocked at Joe’s.”
RP: “How were you feeling at that stage, with reference to drink and drugs?”
JW: “Dunno me head was still battered like but I didn’t know what I’d done. I didn’t know until the morning what happened like.”
RP: “Yes, well we’ll come to that. What did you believe you had done?”
JW: “Just basically shot the house up.”
RP: “You went for a long walk, is that in the Huyton area?”
JW: “In the Huyton area yeah.”
RP: “You told us that you called at Joe’s house?”
JW: “I knocked at his.”
RP: “Why did you do that?”
JW: “I dont know my head was a bit 🤬🤬🤬*** like, I didn’t know what to do. I wanted to go back to the flat and went and seen Joe first. I had nowhere else to go. I didn't want to go home. I just parked the car my my nan’s and went for a walk, clear me head a bit.”
RP: “You went to Joe’s house?”
JW: “I knocked at the door. Joe looked out of his window in his bedroom, I heard the dogs barking as well. He come out. He was in his pyjamas, I said ‘walk around the flat with me lad’. He got ready and walked round with me.”
RP: “Given you said you’d felt you’d been belittled or embarrassed by Niall Barry, why did you want to go back there?”
JW: “Basically I had nowhere else to go.”
RP: “Is that what you did?”
JW: “Thats correct yeah.”
RP: “We see you and Joseph Peers arriving at 267 Pilch Lane at 25 past 1 in the morning. You are at that time apparently wearing a coat?”
JW: “Er yeah.”
RP: “Had you been wearing that coat during the course of the shooting?”
JW: “No I was in the car. It was in the boot.”
RP: “Was it your coat?”
JW: “Yeah, my coat.”
RP: “Why did you put the coat on?”
JW: “It was raining you see.”
RP: “Some evidence was given by a forensic scientist to the effect that it seemed to smell of detergent. Did you wash that coat?”
JW: “Erm no.”

10:58JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham confesses to 'shooting Saz's house up'​

Mr Pratt says: “Your fingerprints, your left thumb print, were found on a box of Bold washing tablets. Also your thumb print was found on a bottle of Comfort fabric conditioner, do you known how your prints came to be there?”
Witham says: “I had a shower in that flat and I done a wash as well. I washed a few towels. I must have moved the stuff round.”
RP: “The two of you go into the flat. Do you remember who was present?”
JW: “Yeah yeah. Niall, Kershaw and I think Zest was in bed.”
RP: “Did you actually see him?”
JW: “Yeah I seen him but he was in bed when I first went in there.”
RP: “What was the atmosphere like?”
JW: “It was alright basically yeah. They was all half tired. It was a bit late like when I got there.”
RP: “What was everyone doing?”
JW: “Watching stuff on the telly. I sat down on the couch and had a spliff, sat there for a bit in silence.”
RP: “At any stage did you have a discussion with anybody about what you had done?”
JW: “Yeah I did.”
RP: “Who did you speak to.”
JW: “Niall. Niall, and Kershaw was sitting next to him on the couch.”
RP: “At that time, was Joseph Peers present?”
JW: “No I waited for Joseph to get off.”
RP: “Had you in the walk or when you’d arrived at Joseph Peers’s house told him what you’d done?”
JW: “No. I don’t think i spoke to him that much on walking round there.”
RP: “Was the decision to wait until he left, was that a deliberate decision?”
JW: “No I didn't really know Joe enough to tell him something like that. I was a bit ashamed. I didn’t know exactly what happened.”
RP: “What was it you told Niall Barry.”
JW: “I said ‘I just shot Saz’s house up there’. He wouldn’t believe me. He started going on, ‘you’re chatting 🤬🤬🤬🤬 lad. You haven’t done nothing’. I said ‘here y’are I just shot the house up’ basically, told him. He was shouting a bit at me and going on saying ‘what you doing at the flat and that’. He was obviously stressed out.”
RP: “Did you tell him why you had done what you’d done?”
JW: “I said he’s a rat, he’s been robbing me for years now. It's got to the point where he needs to stop doing it.”
RP: “Had you discussed the problems you’d had with Lee Harrison?”
JW: “No I hadn’t spoke to no one about it.”
RP: “Did Kershaw join in that conversation?”
JW: “A little bit, he wouldn’t believe me basically. He ended up getting off him.”
RP: “How were you?”
JW: “Still shocked basically/. I was still a bit drunk though.”
RP: “It’s been said that you were frothing at the mouth or words to that effect?”
JW: “I was a bit drunk like, I don't know about frothing at the mouth.”

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Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
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11:10KEY EVENT

Witham: 'I dropped the gun in a wheelie bin in Whiston'​

Mr Pratt says: “You waited till after Joseph Peers left. We can see Joseph Peers leaves Pilch Lane at 16 minutes past 3. At 3.39, Michael Kershaw leaves. We’re going to also see that you yourself leave Pilch Lane (at 4.19). If the conversation you had was after Joseph Peers left, it must be some time after 3.16. If Michael Kershaw was present also, we know he left at around 3.39. It’s in that timescale.”
Witham says: “Yeah correct.”
RP: “After that 3.39, Michael Kershaw has left. Before you leave at 19 minutes past 4, what was going on in the flat?”
JW: “Nothing. Zest went back to bed. Niall was in the living room. I went and sat in the other bedroom. I had a spliff, sat there thinking for about half an hour. I nearly fell asleep. I got off then.”
Witham says he walked home and to bed. He adds he was woken up by his dad “about 10 o’clock”
Witham says: “He said Sean’s girl’s sister’s just been shot dead in her house.”
RP: “Did you know who he meant?”
JW: “When he said it then yeah, I did.”
RP: “You knew it was Ashley Dale?”
JW: “Yeah, sorry.”
RP: “When he told you that what did you think?”
JW: “I just went and got a cold shower and sat on the floor for about 40 minutes in the shower. My head was still battered. Still is now to this day, I still don’t believe it’s happened.”
RP: “What conclusion did you draw?”
JW: “I just thought it’s me that’s done it obviously. I couldn’t believe meself. I've never felt like that in my life. I thought I was having a nightmare. I didn't know what to do with meself. I just got in the car, walked round the corner, got in the car and drove to Joe’s and asked is there anywhere I can store this car.”
RP: “The car you referring to was?”
JW: “The Hyundai?”
RP: “What did Joseph say to you?”
JW: “He said yeah he’ll phone his mate and meet him in St Helens about 3 o'clock and gave me an address to go and meet him.”
RP: “What sort of time was it you were having this conversation?”
JW: “About half 10.”
RP: “Having made the arrangement, what did you then do?”
JW: “Then I just drove the car back to by the Village Hotel.”
RP: “Did you explain why you wanted to store the Hyundai?”
JW: “He knew it was in a crash the day before, he knew I was waiting for it to get fixed. I just wanted to get it away now. My head was done. I've never done anything like that in my life. I never told him nothing. I couldn't tell him nothing. I felt so ashamed of doing it.”
RP: “You were then telling us where you took the car?”
JW: “Yeah just by Stadt Moers again, by the Village Hotel. Just off Whiston Lane.”
RP: “Why did you go to that area in particular?”
JW: “Dunno, it was the only place I know where there’s no cameras.”
RP: “Do you know that area for any reason?”
JW: “My sister’s little nephew lives around the corner. There’s a little lake there as well.”
RP: “What were you intending to do?”
JW: “I parked the car up, took my clothes and the gun, put them in a bin bag, took some bin bags out the bin and just put them in a bin.”
RP: “Where had the gun been after you used it to fire shots at Leinster Road?”
JW: “I put it in the boot.”
RP: “You put some clothes in the bin?”
JW: “Me clothes I had on that night.”
RP: “What about the shoes?”
JW: “I put them in with the bin bag yeah.”
RP: “Specifically, where was this? What did you do?”
JW: “I walked through Stadt moers and went to my sister’s. I took a few bin bags and put the bin bags over it, left it in the bin.”
He says the bin was “just off Whiston Lane”, near to the hotel.
JW: “There was a big alleyway with a row of bins, a load of bins there.”
RP: “What then did you do?”
JW: “I had a little walk round the park and walked to my sister’s . I had a spliff with me little nephew and got a black taxi home.”
RP: “After that, you’d gone home. You told us earlier you made an arrangement to meet Joseph Peers.”
JW: “Between 3 and half 3 he said.”
RP: “Did you make your way there?”
JW: “I left me nan’s about quarter past 2. I got a black taxi to the car and drove to St Helens.”
RP: “When he drove to St Helens did you meet up with Joseph Peers.”
JW: “Yeah I met up with Joseph yeah. Joseph give me an address and I met him there. I was on my own. I just put it (the car) up the path. Redgate, redgrave street or something in St Helens.”
RP: “Did you see anyone else?”
JW: “Just the lad who lived there. I didn’t get a look at him properly. We got a taxi. We was going to get a sauna and a steam but the facilities wasn’t working. We’ve ended up getting a taxi home. He was supposed to be staying with his girlfriend there, I’ve asked if he can book me a room.”
RP: “Where were you going to go?”
JW: “The Mercure Hotel, I’ve askedJjoe does he want to go for a swim and steam that. The facilities wasn’t working. We got a taxi home, he went to his and I went back to mine.”
RP: “You are there at the reception desk at 27 minutes past 8. You’ve arrived there in a taxi?”
JW: “Er yeah.”
RP: “The booking of that hotel was carried out by whom?”
JW: “By Joe. I asked him to book us a hotel.”
RP: “Had you told him about what had happened?”
JW: “No no. he wouldn't be speaking to me now if I told him that.”

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
 
11:21JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham was 'suicidal' after shooting​

Mr Pratt says: “Why did you want to stay at a hotel?”
Witham says: “My head was battered. I was suicidal. I needed to be round someone. My head was 🤬🤬🤬**** up. I bottled it all in. I’m a private person, I don’t tell no-one nothing, that’s what I do.”
RP: “We see you at a hotel reception, we see you shopping in Liverpool, we see you in a restaurant. You know the pictures we are referring to. To be frank, you don’t look particularly troubled. How were you really feeling?”
JW: “I still couldn’t believe it happened. I tried to bottle it in, tried to keep it all in meself.”
RP: “This is you and Mr Peers leaving the Mercure Hotel. You are about to get into a white van linked to Joseph Peers’s father. We’re on August 22. Do you recollect doing that?”
JW: “Yeah Joe said his dad was in the area. (inaudible) to the KFC and that.”
RP: “We move on to the 23rd of August. You are checking out of the Mercure. You’re about to leave in a taxi. This is images of you shopping in L1 and you have your son with you?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “You're buying a different type of trainer?”
JW: “Er yeah. I always buy trainees all the time. I had to get rid of my other ones, so I needed a pair.”
RP: “You appear to change your trainers while you’re in the restaurant?”
JW: “I just wanted to put them on.”
RP: “Were these the trainers, the ones you were taking off, that you had worn?”
JW: “No no.”
RP: “They were not the ones you were wearing at 40 Leinster Road?”
JW: “No.”
RP: “There is a deposit of £1,000, a larger amount than you’d normally paid in. where had that come from?”
JW: “Just off drug dealing.”
RP: “Why was it a larger amount than usual?”
JW: “Cos I knew i was going out the way to Scotland so I took it in case I needed it. Everywhere’s cashless now. I took my son to the Everton shop and Zizzi and you needed a card for that. I knew what happened, I needed to get out the way for a bit. I was going to Scotland anyway, someone owed me money up there. Through drug dealing.”
RP: “There is a record of a trip. Your phone number is cell siting up to Scotland, at the same time a phone associated with Mr Peers is making a same journey.”
JW: “I’d asked Joe could he get me a lift up to Scotland and I’ll pay him to do it.”
RP: “Who took you to Scotland?”
JW: “Me, Joe and the fella who give us a lift.”
RP: “That is on August 23, you stay in Scotland until the 26th. Where had you been staying?”
JW: “I had friends up there, live up there. Who I do a bit of drug dealing with up there.”
RP: “Were you and Joseph Peers staying in the same place?”
JW: “No he stayed in his uncle’s him.”
Mr Pratt says there is then the “return journey”
RP: “There is a booking described as being unsuccessful in your name for the night of the 26th of August in Whiston.”
JW: “I used to always stay there.”
RP: “Why was that unsuccessful?”
JW: “I think there wasn’t enough money in my bank. I couldn’t recollect. I never ended up going there.”
Mr Pratt says there is a series of text messages between him and his sister during the trip.
RP: “Can you remember anything about those text messages?”
JW: “No no. I can remember sending it. She wasn’t answering the phone to me.”
RP: “We do see there are a number of attempted calls. This is in context of the search warrant being executed at Ashbury Road, your home address. When you got that text from Julie, why were you wanting to speak to her?”
JW: “I was trying to phone to see if she was in. I was nearly home you see.”
RP: “At the same sort of time you are making eight attempted calls to your father?”
JW: “Yeah to see if he was in. I had nowhere to go.”
RP: “Were you aware that there was a search warrant taking place at your house?”
JW: “No I did not know.”

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
 
11:29KEY EVENT

'I pleaded guilty because it ate me up inside'​

Mr Pratt says another booking was made for two room at the Mercure Hotel
RP: “You and Joseph Peers arrive at the Mercure Hotel having been dropped there in a white Transit van by, it is said, Joseph Peers’s father.”
Witham replies: “Joe said he’s staying there with his girlfriend. He was supposed to stay there the week before. I said book me another room.”
RP: “Why didn’t you want to go home?”
JW; “I don’t know, my head was still a bit. I don't know. I wasn't thinking.”
RP: “You’re checking out of the Mercure Hotel. we see you’re making a further trip to Scotland?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “In an Audi Q7. Were you driving?”
JW: “No. I wasn’t driving no.
Witham says Peers’ uncle was driving
JW: “I used him to get lifts. I never told him nothing, I was ashamed. I knew he was legit with his bank card and that. If I asked him to get a hotel room, he wouldn’t say no.”
RP: “Joseph Peers is using your bank card to withdraw cash?”
JW: “That’s the money I said I’d give to him for sorting me lifts and that. Before I went to Scotland I passed him my card and said take what I owe you.”
He says Peers then booked him a hotel at the Mercure Hotel in Aberdeen.
JW: “That was me again using Joseph to book a hotel for me.”
RP: “Why did you get him to make the booking?”
JW: “Don’t know. I wasn't thinking straight. I had no ID myself. I thought I’d ask him to book me a hotel.”
RP: “When you were in Scotland, you were staying until September 2. Did you leave the Mercure Hotel on September 2.”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “Where did you go?”
JW: “Went and stayed with my friend in Aberdeen. A couple of days, I can’t really remember.”
Witham and Peers were stopped on the M6 in Cumbria in a black Audi Q7 on September 13.
RP: “Where had you been between September 2 and 13?”
JW: “I was just doing drug dealing when I was up there.”
RP: “In Scotland?”
JW: “Yeah.”
RP: “This is you returning back to Merseyside. You’re arrested on suspicion of the shooting of Ashley Dale. You gave a false number. Why were you giving a false name?”
JW: “I knew I’d have been wanted for that.”
RP: “You were arrested. You went no comment in the interview. You did say certain things to officers saying the car was Davo’s. You were being stitched up. It’s not right. I’m being set up. He crashed the car. You need to do more enquiries on the car. Why were you saying those things?”
JW: “I was just stressed out. I shouldn't have said it. I was lying then. I should have owned up from day one. I couldn’t do it. I was so ashamed.”
RP: “You served a defence statement which denied involvement in the shooting?”
JW: “Yeah that’s true.”
RP: “Then, on September 21, the court was convened so you could enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter.”
JW: “Er yeah.”
RP: “Why did you decide to plead guilty?”
JW: “Because it’s ate me inside. I hadn’t slept for a year. I’ve been having nightmares all the time. I’ve got other people arrested who had nothing to do with it. I regret it so much and I have got to live with it for the rest of my life. It was just a warning. I just shot into the wall. If I knew anyone was there I would have drove home.”

www.websleuths.com

UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

12:14JONATHAN HUMPHRIES Fitzgibbon: 'I went with Witham to buy nice hash' Mr Greaney rises to continue his cross examination of Fitzgibbon. PG: “Mr Fitzgibbon, I left you on august 10 at Ten Street Social with Niall Barry and others who tended to congregate at 267 Pilch Lane. Do you agree in the...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
11:38JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Hyundai was bought 'to transport drugs and cash'​

Mr Pratt says he has no further questions.
Stan Reiz, KC, representing Niall Barry, rises to ask James Witham some questions in cross examination.
SR: “May I start with the fallout between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry.”
JW: “That was years ago, about four or five years ago. I thought it was all forgotten about.”
SR: “You had no personal knowledge of their business relationship?”
JW: “No no.”
SR: “You had no personal knowledge of what they fell out about?”
JW: “I just got told he got robbed, chit chat off different people. Years and years ago.”
SR: “When you were being asked questions, you said ‘I got told Lee robbed him with his mate.”
JW: “That’s what I got told yeah.”
SR: “Are you sure you weren't told he was mates with the people who robbed him?”
JW: “The Hillsiders yeah.”
SR: “You were never told Lee robbed Niall Barry?”
JW: “The Hillsiders yeah.”
SR: “He was associated with those who had?”
JW: “Yeah that’s correct.”
SR: “The second topic is the Hyundai. Niall Barry asked you to try and sell your Audi S3?”
JW: “That’s true.”
SR: “But he didn’t manage to do so.”
JW: “No.”
SR: “Eventually the Audi was part exchanged with cash for the Hyundai. you were part exchanging your vehicle for another one?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
SR: “The person who arranged that transaction was David McCaig?”
JW: “Yeah.”
SR: “Niall Barry wasn’t involved in the purchase of the Hyundai?”
JW: “Erm no, no.”
SR: “His involvement in selling a car for you was the Audi S3.”
JW: “Just asked him to do me a favour basically.”
SR: “But the person who managed to acquire the Hyundai was David McCaig?”
JW: “Davo, yeah.”
Mr Reiz says on August 15, James Witham and David McCaig leave Pilch Lane.
SR: “You are on your way to purchase the Hyundai?”
JW: “I think so yeah.”
SR: “David McCaig was sending text messages to Brian Gowland, the person you bought the Hyundai from?”
JW: “Erm yeah.”
SR: “You purchased that car in Sale?”
JW: “That’s correct.”
SR: “That’s you and Mr McCaig returning to Pilch Lane. Niall barry was not on that trip?”
JW: “No he wasn’t.”
SR: “Because he wasn't involved in that transaction?”
JW: “No he wasn't.”
SR: “You were going to use the Hyundai to transport drugs and cash?”
JW: “Yeah. It was a nice car, I wanted to get rid of the S3 as well.”
SR: “You were aware if the police stopped you in possession of cash or drugs you might get into trouble. You were making frequent trips to North Wales. that is why you needed to acquire a cloned number plate.”
JW: “Yeah true.”
SR: “The day after you purchase the Hyundai, do you see there is a draft message found in Mr Barry’s phone when he was arrested. We don’t know the date this was created. The number plate in it is a cloned number plate you wanted to acquire for the Hyundai.”
JW: “Yeah that’s true.”
SR: “To assist you in avoiding detection while running your drugs business?”
JW: “Yeah.”
Mr Reiz asks if he asked Barry to make a note of the registration plate.
JW: “Asked Davo to get a reg for the car. I asked him can he get me plates made for it, the same type of car.”
SR: “My question was did you ask Mr Barry to make a note of that number plate.”
JW: “I think I did you know but I think he was sitting with Davo at the time.”

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
 
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