GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

[Legal]

I have to say whoever is reporting for the Echo is doing a brilliant job getting down so much detail. Even telling us when Peers applies chapstick!

PG: “Long story short, effectively James Witham forces you to get into the car. Absolutely insists you get into the car.”

Peers uses a chapstick on his lips and replies: “On a normal day, it’s not odd for someone to offer you a lift. I understand this day’s a bit different to the next. That night was nothing out of the ordinary for me.”

 

[Legal]

“Of all the places to take a wrong turn"​

Mr Greaney rises and resumes his cross-examination of Peers.

PG: “Before the break, you told me that your phone was in Do Not Disturb mode.”

JP: “Yeah.”

PG: “And you explained that meant that the phone was still connected to the network. When I put to you that your account cannot be correct, you told me I was wrong. That is always a possibility, so we have used the break to check.”

Mr Greaney says the data has been looked at again. PG: “Save for those two minutes at 23.09, your phone was not connecting to the network.”

He is shown a call from Barry’s phone to Peers’ which did not connect.

PG: “There is no cell siting data for your phone. Your phone was not connecting to the network. 9.09 to 43 minutes past midnight. Save for that short two minute period it was not connecting to the network. Your phone was either switched off or in aeroplane mode.”

He asks Peers to respond to that point.

JP: “That phone is not my phone I had. I’ve verified that with my legal team twice. The actual phone you’ve got there is wrong. I’ve instructed these to look into it.”

Mr Greaney says he has asked the question, Peers has replied, so he will move on.

PG: “We’re turning next to an important point in the chronology. You end up in Old Swan don’t you.”

JP: “I do yeah.”

PG: “Who was driving you or Mr Witham?”

JP: “Mr Witham.”

Stills from the CCTV footage are displayed in court.

PG: “He ended up taking a wrong turn onto Glen Road. There we see at 22.20, travelling along Broad Green Road. And turning right onto Glen Road. travelling on Glen Road in the direction of Monterrey Road. Along Glen Road towards Broad Green Road.”

JP: “That’s on its way back then.”

PG: “Absolutely. Then there’s the Hyundai, 22 minutes past. You know the geography.”

JP: “So four minutes.”

PG: “Of all the places to take a wrong turn, this was just a short distance from where about an hour later Ashley Dales’s car was attacked, and she was shot dead about two hours later.”

JP: “I agree. In Monterrey Road the police actually had cameras. That vehicle never got seen driving in that road, nor did anyone get seen walking on foot in that area.”

PG: “That was established by Mr Wright with clarity and skill on your behalf. The position is, this Hyundai with you in it, at 20 past 10, was just a short distance away from where two hours or so later Ashley Dale was shot dead?”

JP: “Yeah that’s correct, but that’s James Witham. When he drives, that’s just the way he is.”

PG: “We have spent a lot of time being asked to consider whether the Hyundai shown was a different car from the vehicle you were in. We had questioning on your behalf of prosecution witnesses. We had agreed facts running to pages about Hyundai cars of the same type. Now, when it’s come to your evidence, you have accepted the car is indeed [the same vehicle]. And you have accepted you were in that vehicle.”

JP: “I have yeah.”

PG: “A red Golf appears to be travelling in convoy with the Hyundai.”

JP: “I don’t agree that the Golf was in convoy. As far as I was aware, I never noticed any car behind us or even in front for that matter. I can’t give you an answer why it looks like that. I can see why you would say it was in convoy. It looks like that.”

PG: “Can you tell us who was in that red Volkswagen Golf?”
JP: “I couldn’t, but if that car went through Broad Green Road it would have hit ANPR. you would have been able to find out the owner of that car.”

PG: “I think as you know, that hasn’t proved possible.What we now know is you acknowledge that at 20 and 22 minutes past 10 you were in that Hyundai. The Hyundai was in Old Swan. Is it your position that at that time James Witham was in the car and he was driving it?”

JP: “Yeah that’s my position and that’s right.”

 

[Legal]

Prosecution suggest Peers dropped off Witham to "pick up the weapon"​

Peers is shown a map plotting cell siting locations of Witham’s phone around this period.

Mr Greaney says: “We can see the use of the Witham phone at a very similar period to that we’ve been considering. 22.23 and following. We can see where Witham’s telephone is being used. As Mr Wright on your behalf explored, the question arose of whether at the time Witham’s phone was making those calls it could have been in the Hyundai. Ultimately, what Mr Tarpey said was this.

He reads from Mr Tarpey’s report. (John Tarpey is a cell site expert who gave evidence earlier in the trial).

PG: “During this period there were several sightings of a grey Hyundai and a Volkswagen Golf in the Old Swan area. The mobile attributed to James Witham did not use any cell suggesting that it could have been in the vehicle. What’s happening?”

JP: “That was his opinion weren’t it.”

PG: “We know this is the Hyundai. We know you were in it, I suggest we know Witham was not.”

JP: “That’s what you suggest.”

PG: “That’s what the evidence suggests.”

JP: “I was there. I was in the car with Witham.”
PG: “You were there, and what was happening was you had dropped off Witham to pick up the weapon. You were driving and doing a recce in the general area to make sure you knew what was happening.”

JP: “If I was driving, you see the car reversing clearly. The first time, you never see the car reversing or anyone getting out the car or doing any recce. If I was a designated driver, there’s no way I would have made that mistake twice. There’s no way I was that person at that time.”

PG: “The reality of the evidence is that that’s the Hyundai at 20 past 10. Your’e in it and Witham isn’t in it. You need to accept the reality of the evidence, may I suggest.”

JP: “I don't need to accept nothing. I was in that car with James Witham at that time. That’s the truth. There’s nothing to hold back on that. What you can also see is there’s a cell site from, I think it’s one of the ones where it comes past Pilch Lane shops, Witham’s cell sited in L14. The car’s drove past L14. You see my phone cell sited in L36. That’s after it happened. I’m not disputing that I was in the car at this time.”

PG: “During this period there were several sightings of the car. The mobile attributed to James Witham did not use any cell suggesting it could have been in the vehicle. You were the driver, Mr Peers, weren’t you?”

JP: “No I was not the driver but I was in the car as a passenger, I fully accept that.”

 

[Legal]

12:55JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I'm not lying about this'​

Mr Greaney says: “The detour on Glen Road was at 10.20pm. Your account is that from there you went to Huyton House Road to see Barry Westall.”
Peers says: “I made calls on Witham’s phone on his behalf for hash.”
PG: “Having made the arrangement, there was no need for you to be there to pick up the drugs was there. You could have been dropped home?”
JP: “I can’t say for certain what you’re trying to say. Can you repeat that to me?”
PG: “Over this whole period, all you wanted was to get home. By this stage you were fuming. Even if we accept you had made this arrangement, there was no need for you to be there on the handover. You could have been dropped off on the way?”
JP: “Witham did not know Barry Westall and Barry Westall would not have dealt with him direct. For me to be the driver and not be with him, there’s no way Witham would have made that call to Barry at 5 to or 10 to 11. That’s clear to me that Witham was with me.”
PG: “This is a Saturday night, gone 10 o'clock. Plainly not rush hour. Were the roads busy or quiet. It looks fairly quiet?”
JP: “I couldn’t remember, no.”
PG: “How far is Huyton House Road from Glen Road?”
JP: “I couldn't’ say the distance in miles.”
PG: “About five minutes to drive at this time of night?”
JP: “No you’re talking the best part of 15 minutes. The best part of 10 minutes.”
PG: “You left Glen Road at 10.20. That would have seen you arriving between 10.30 and 10.35. We can see there is a call from Witham’s phone to Barry Westall. it’s not between 22.20 and 22.35 as you’re travelling to the area. It’s not as you get to the area, it’s much later. It’s 22.54 hours. You had been desperate to get home. What were you doing during that period of time?”
JP: “That’s right. I accept walking home takes 15 minutes. I accept that iIve been an hour. What isn’t calculated for is Witham’s driving, how he drives. He’s took the long way round. He’s turned into wrong roads basically. I can’t account or say anything about the time or how long its took to get to one place or another. I can only say what I know. What I know is how I got from there to Huyton House to being dropped off home. If it took nearly an hour, that’s what it took.”
PG: “It looks like it’s taken about half an hour for you to make a journey that on your account would take 10 to 15 minutes. I was asking you to explain how that could be right. Mr Witham took lots of wrong turns?”
JP: “I can’t account for Witham’s driving. He’s took the long way in many circumstances that night. It has resulted in being out for an hour. I wasn’t driving the car. I definitely did ring Barry Westall at that time. If we had left at 10 past 10, in 40 minutes time its took me to get to the other side of Old Swan and then back to Huyton to make a call for him. Both our phones are cell sited in L14. you clearly see my phone cell site in L36. This is just after I’ve been dropped off. It took longer than expected.”
PG: “It took three times longer than expected. The explanation is Witham was driving and took the long way round?”
JP: “Yeah. I also said to you yesterday, I've insisted on walking home. It was not odd for Witham to ask me for a lift, I accepted. I wanted to walk home, i’ve ended up putting myself in a car.”
Justice Goose interjects: “Were you still with Witham when those three calls were made?”
JP: “I was still Witham, that’s just before I've been dropped off home.”
PG: “Although you wanted to walk home, Witham insisted on driving you. He drove you to Mr McCaig’s house, he persuaded you to arrange for you to acquire drugs from Barry Westall and drove the long way round.”
JP: “I’m not lying about that. I was in the car then. He’s done my head in. I should have been home, but I wasn’t. It’s still just baffling to me still, having to go over this.”

 

[Legal]

So he's admitted being in the car used in the killing, with the killer and in the vicinity of Ashley's house a few hours before the attack...

 

[Legally Bland]

I think I missed this one earlier:
_____

11:37JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Peers 'went travelling through Europe with profits from installation job'​

Mr Greaney refers to the trip to North Wales on August 19.
PG: “You travelled with David McCaig is that right? With James Witham and with Niall Barry?”
JP: “Yes.”
PG: “The four of you together in that car?”
JP: “Yeah.”
PG: “I’m just going to pause, as we mentioned yesterday, to consider your personal finances. During July and into early August, you spent the best part of a month travelling around southern Europe. You stayed in hotels, you drank and ate in restaurants and bars. You got flights to Spain and from Spain to Portugal.”
JP: “That’s correct yes.”
PG: “And in the end back to the UK?”
JP: “That’s also true yeah.”
PG: “Part of your travelling involved a journey from Barcelona to Valencia. That’s a journey of 350km, 220 miles.”
JP: “I couldn’t tell you.”
PG: “There is a high speed rail link between the two. You didn’t get the train did you?”
JP: “No. missed it.”
PG: “Instead you got a taxi?”
JP: “I did.”
PG: “How long did it take you down the Spanish coast?”
JP: “I think if i can remember correctly it was over three hours.”
PG: “How much did that cost?”
JP: “500 Euro.”
PG: “Moreover, at the Mercure hotel you had substantial sums in cash?”
JP: “I did.”
PG: “When you were arrested you had £500?”
JP: “That’s also correct.”
PG: “All this money you were using and had access to over this summer, where was that coming from?”
JP: “Just before Glastonbury, I happened to have, the week before Glastonbury, I was approached by a man. He’d just bought a property and was turning it into shared accommodation.”
PG: What’s that man’s name.”
JP: “Anthony. I don’t know his second name. I was referred to by my father. I can get the details of the job and address where I done the job and pictures, I probably took selfies doing the job.”
PG: “This is all news to me. So you have outlined the basic facts.. A man called Anthony whose surname you can’t remember”
Mr Greaney asks for the address.
JP: “It was on Otterspool prom. I don’t know the actual address. I’ve got it in the diary.”
PG: “What had you done?”
JP: “An unvented hot water system. He was going for an all electric fix.”
Peers says he charged £6,700 with materials, “all in cash”.
PG: “What was the profit element?”
JP: “It was £1,700 with the materials deducted. I had a labourer called Mike Evans, I was giving him 60 pounds per day. My dad used to pick me up and drop me off.”
PG: “What was your clear profit?”
JP: “It was over £3,800, I’d say.”
PG: “You were at pains to explain to the jury that at the time of these events, you had a job?”
JP: “You did.”
PG: “You told us you were a fully qualified gas engineer.”
JP: “I am.”
PG: “Had you told us your own business was called Brilliance UK?”
JP: “I also had a big social media page called Ideal Install. I had 6,500 followers.”
PG: “Records from Companies House do show that company Brilliance was incorporated in 2018 with you as the sole director and shareholder. The problem is in the accounts there is no evidence that company ever traded.”
JP: “That’s right. I happened to put all my work on social media, that’s the way I got work basically. All through my instagram accounts.”
PG: “Your company supplied dormant company accounts in 2018. It has never provided any further accounts to confirm it has ever traded. What was the purpose in telling the jury you had your own company when it has never traded?”
JP: “Ideal Install was the first company I had. I actually never got time to change Ideal Instal into Brilliance. I never got round to changing it all back round.”
PG: “That company was struck off in September 2021, 11 months before these events.”
JP: “Yeah, that’s right.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[HongKongPhooey]

11:57KEY EVENT

'Niall Barry could not control me'​

Mr Greaney says: “By 19.40, you were back in Liverpool?”
Peers replies: “I was.”
PG: “At 19.42, you and Ian Fitzgibbon and James Witham went into the Co-op on Pilch Lane?”
JP: “Yeah, that’s correct.”
PG: “Where had Ian Fitzgibbon had come into the events on this day.”
JP: “Erm i’m not too sure to be honest.”
PG: “Had he been waiting for you at the flat when you arrived back?”
JP: “I actually can’t remember.”
PG: “He arrived there, almost as soon as the others who had been to North Wales got back. Was it just pure chance?”
JP: “Erm. I’m not too sure. I probably spoke to him on the phone. I can’t actually remember.”
PG: “You went back to the flat at Pilch Lane, staying there until gone midnight into August 20.”
JP: “Yeah that’s right.”
PG: “You left having spent over four hours in that flat. Getting into a taxi?”
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “Another person left after you and got into that taxi?”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “You told us you couldn’t remember who that was. Many of the details, the drinks and sweets you bought, you can remember. Can you remember who it was?”
JP: “I’m more than sure it was Sean that left with me at that time.”
PG: “We know now that night.”
JP: “Dropped me off in the taxi.”
PG: “You were in that flat with James Witham, the gunman. With Niall Barry, with Sean Zeisz and with Ian Fitzgibbon.”
JP: “That’s correct.”
PG: “You returned to the flat the next afternoon didn’t you?”
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “You returned at 2.52. Were you with Ian Fitzgibbon?”
JP: “I was.”
PG: “Had you arrived together by agreement or was this pure chance?”
JP: “No he asked me do I want picking up to go the flat. Him and Claudia picked me up from my mum’s.”
PG: “Ian Fitzgibbon phoned you, and said he was going to the flat and offered to give you a lift. Did he explain why he was going to the flat?”
JP: “No.”
PG: “Why was it you wanted to go to that flat?”
JP; “I was just getting out the house.”
PG: “You spent a lot of time there.”
JP: “I spent all day in them shops and in the flat yeah.”
PG: “At 5.48, you and Ian Fitzgibbon went to the shop.”
JP: “Yeah.”
PG: “One of the things that you bought was a top up for Niall Barry’s phone?”
JP: “I did yeah."
PG: “This was a phone he was just about to start to use that night. A new phone.”
JP: “I’d be aware I got him a credit.”
PG: “Did Niall Barry explain why in the hours before the attack on 40 Leinster Road he was about to use a new telephone.”
JP: “No, I never noticed nothing. He asked me to get a credit from the shop and I did. I couldn’t say he’s using a new phone. He’s asked me to get him a credit, he gave me 20 quid, I got him a tenner credit. He never explained it. I was going the shop to get a few bits, sweets, whatever. I spent the rest on sweets and coffee I think.”
PG: “James Witham then arrives at 7.20pm.”
JP: “I wasn’t with Witham that day..”
PG: “He’d been to the fotoball with Mr Kershaw. There he is arriving back. Just over five hours later, he launched an attack on 40 Leinster Road.”
JP: “Yeah.”
PG: “In the intervening period you spent hours in his company.”
JP: “I did yeah. From 7.20, I spent a bit of time with him yeah.”
PG: “You spent time laughing and joking.”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “Did you not have the slightest inkling of what he was about to do?”
JP: “I didn’t.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz arrives at 9.15. He’ll have his opportunity to tell us why he went there, what did he say to you was his reason?”
JP: “I was in the flat with Ian. They were getting ready to watch the fight. I hadn’t seen or spoke to him that day. It wasn’t until later on that I had a phone call. I said to him, we’re in the flat here. The boxing’s going to be on, are you coming? And he called past. I waited for him to come and remained in the flat for an hour, 40 minutes. Seen him and then got off.”
PG: “He went because you had invited him?”
JP: “That’s correct, yeah.”
PG: “We’ve now reached the point of your departure. You were asked a series of questions yesterday by Mr Reiz. Were you aware he was asking questions on behalf of Niall Barry?”
Peers says he was.
PG: “You agreed that James Witham had become intoxicated?”
JP: “Yes.”
PG: “That he’d become rowdy.”
JP: “Yeah.”
PG: “And because he was spoiling the mood he’d been asked to leave by Niall Barry.”
JP: “That wasn’t for me, that wasn’t in my presence. I got up. I was going home. Whether something’s been said to him as I’m coming the stairs after I’ve come out the living room. It’s a long landing and flight of stairs and hallway. I couldn’t say.”
PG: “I thought you told us yesterday Mr Reiz was correct. Are you saying you have no idea?”
JP: “I’m saying it could be correct but it also couldn’t be. I accept it was getting loud in the flat and it was a bit hairy. That’s what I did accept.”
PG: “I think you may have accepted more than that but let’s just park that. You didn’t hear Niall Barry telling Mr Witham to get out?”
JP: “I never said that.”
PG: “You tell me what the position is please. Mr Reiz said Witham is drunk, rowdy, he’s spoiling the mood. Mr Barry said get out.”
JP: “It wasn’t like get out”
PG: “What did you hear him say?”
JP: “It’s getting a bit too much in here. That’s all I heard him say. What are you doing? Slow down.”
PG: “This is Barry to Witham. Mr Barry was suggesting to Mr Witham he should leave.”
JP: “That’s my understanding.”
PG: “All of that you can remember now in order to answer Mr Reiz’s questions. You can remember that happening.”
JP: “I can.”
Mr Greaney asks Peers to look at his first defence statement, made ahead of the trial.
He reads a section to the court: “The defendant, you, was part of the group gathering to watch the fight. There came a time the defendant announced he was walking home to watch the fight with his dad. He said his phone was on its arse, very low on charge. He recalled Zeisz saying if he called back later could he bring some cigarettes. As he got up to leave, Witham stated he too was going to see his nan in Page Moss and offered the defendant a lift home. Witham was quite insistent that he would give him a lift.”
Mr Greaney says: “You will be able to agree, there’s nothing in your defence statement about Witham being drunk or rowdy or it being suggested he should leave. Instead he was leaving to go and visit his nan?”
JP: “No. I said his nans. That should have been his nans. That’s right yeah.”
PG: “Do you agree the account in your statement is different from the account you have given to me?”
JP: “It was basically right, I just went into further detail with you and Mr Reiz.”
PG: “I’m going to suggest it is a different account and the reason you’ve given that it because Niall Barry is a controlling figure within your gang and you were agreeing because you think that is what he wanted you to do.”
JP: “Niall Barry could not control me nor tell me or give me advice on this. This is what I’ve said and what I believe to be true.”

I really hope when PG says that SZ will have his opportunity to explain, it means that SZ will also be taking the stand.

 

[Legal]

This is the part where I don't think Peers has any idea what he's talking about when it comes to business. His answers make no sense and he's basically admitting to tax evasion!

PG: “Records from Companies House do show that company Brilliance was incorporated in 2018 with you as the sole director and shareholder. The problem is in the accounts there is no evidence that company ever traded.”
JP: “That’s right. I happened to put all my work on social media, that’s the way I got work basically. All through my instagram accounts.”

AND

P: “An unvented hot water system. He was going for an all electric fix.”
Peers says he charged £6,700 with materials, “all in cash”.
PG: “What was the profit element?”
JP: “It was £1,700 with the materials deducted. I had a labourer called Mike Evans, I was giving him 60 pounds per day. My dad used to pick me up and drop me off.”
PG: “What was your clear profit?”
JP: “It was over £3,800, I’d say.”

 

[Legally Bland]

I really hope when PG says that SZ will have his opportunity to explain, it means that SZ will also be taking the stand.

I hope they all take the stand. As excruciating as it is to read this nonsense it's clear as day it's a pack of lies.

 

[Legal]

I wonder what Witham will say if he takes the stand! He's going to be asked so many detailed questions by the prosecutor about the journey to Ashley's and what happened there. He will be trying not to incriminate himself or any of his mates and I don't think for one minute he will be able to do it! Better not to try, I think!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I hope they all take the stand. As excruciating as it is to read this nonsense it's clear as day it's a pack of lies.

I think it could be a case of people being so sharp they cut themselves. If you see what I mean.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I wonder what Witham will say if he takes the stand! He's going to be asked so many detailed questions by the prosecutor about the journey to Ashley's and what happened there. He will be trying not to incriminate himself or any of his mates and I don't think for one minute he will be able to do it! Better not to try, I think!

The trial would implode if Witham became the Mohammed Patel (TikTok murders) of the group!

 

[Legal]

14:14JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Peers 'never checked CCTV at own house'​

Mr Greaney rises and asks: “We’re going to turn next to your return to 267 Pilch Lane after Ashley Dale had been killed. Is it your case that you watched the fight from the second round through to the end?”
Peers replies: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “Do you mean you came into the room, where the fight was on, while the second round was underway?”
JP: “I’d missed the build up. When I’ve sat down on been lying on the rug, it was halfway through the second round yeah.”
PG: “Your position is you came in halfway through the second round of a fight that started at 11.15. You couldn’t remember at what stage of the fight you had come in. when was it you remembered it was the second round?”
JP: “I just remember missing the ring walk, the walking to the ring, the build up and basically the first round.”
PG: “Yesterday you told me you couldn’t remember when you came into the fight, today you do remember. When did you gain that recollection. Did you speak to someone for example?”
JP: “I never spoke to no one. I basically couldn’t say for certain whether it was the first, the second or the fifth round. I didn't want to say something I couldn't believe was right or wrong.”
PG: “I’ll have one more go at this then we will move on.How are you now able to tell me it was the second round?”
JP: “Because I’ve had all night to go back and sit and think about the question you’ve put to me. I’ve reflected.”
PG: “Did you watch the fight to the end, and also watch the result?”
JP: “Yeah.”
PG: “After that did you go straight to bed?”
JP: “I was chilling out in the kitchen for a bit on my own.”
PG: “What time did you go to bed and sleep?”
JP: “I never went to bed and sleep after that. I had my pyjamas on and was chilling.”
PG: “How was it you became aware of the presence of Mr Witham having returned. Mr Witham came to your house didn't he?”
JP: “Yeah that’s right.”
PG: “How did you become aware he was there?”
JP: “My mum has seen a male on the camera. I’ve got to the front room, looked out and seen it to be Witham. I’ve come down.”
PG: “Were you still in your pyjamas?”
JP: “I was yeah. I come down from my front bedroom. He was at the front.”
PG: “Does your house have a CCTV system?”
JP: “It does yeah.”
PG: “At this time in August last year, did the system work?”
JP: “More than likely yeah.”
PG: “Did the system make a recording?”
JP: “Probably, I don’t take much notice of it.”
PG: “What did it record?”
JP: “I don’t know, I haven’t looked or checked. I haven’t personally. I've been in jail.”
PG: “You were arrested on September 13, then you were released on the 15th of September. You were then free for a period of time until earlier this year. Did you think to say to your mum and dad, you'll never know what these policemen are saying to me. They’re suggesting I'd gone and done this killing. Can I have the CCTV footage of those events?”
JP: “I did, but at the time my mum and dad were in the middle of moving house. After being released, the house was in cardboard boxes. We were relocated by our housing because the gable end had gone on the house.”
PG: “The CCTV recording might have been in one of those boxes. You were being accused of involvement in a terrible crime. Your case is one of alibi; ‘I was in my house at the time’. Your house had a CCTV system. You didn’t make any active enquiries with your parents to secure that recording?”
PG: “That’s right, I never.”

 

[Legal]

14:21JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I never heard Witham confession'​

Mr Greaney asks: “Witham turned up at your house, what happened next?”
Peers says: “He said ‘are you walking back up the flat’. I thought it was a bit odd. I've slapped a trackie on, trainees, and walked back the flat. I never took a house key.”
PG: “This is a man who has recently carried out a killing. Do you know the reason why, having committed that crime, he decided to come around to your house?”
JP: “I don’t, no one normally knocks at mine that later. The closest person out of these co defendants was sean. Not many people would knock at my house. If they were in a car they would beep. It was strange. I can only assume that when I’ve been dropped off home, he might have put a plan in action to latch onto me and cover his tracks from then. But I can’t say for certain?”
PG: “Did he explain to you why he wanted to go back to a flat he’d been asked to leave?”
JP: “He never to be honest, he never explained nothing. We never really spoke much. He was quite a quiet person.”
PG: “Why did you go with him?”
JP: “He was there at the door. It wasn’t too late on the night, given it was a weekend. That’s why I did return to the flat with him?”
PG: “The truth is you returned to that flat with him because you had been in that shooting with James Witham.”
JP: “That’s not right at all. This is my local area. I know there’s cameras on every footpath and every shop. You clearly see me coming out and leaving alone. I haven’t got my hood up, haven’t got gloves on. I’ve come the flat/ I’ve then left on my own.”
PG: “You were going back to update the others about how the plot had gone?”
JP: “No I wasn’t that's not what happened at all. I went back to chill out, pass Sean a pack of L&B blues. He’s well known for casing my mum for ciggies.”
PG: “Other defendants in the dock now, who were in the flat at the time, are going to suggest James Witham said once he returned that he had shot up Lee Harrison’s house. Did you hear him say that?”
JP: “To be honest I only learned about this in a defence statement probably a couple of days ago. I was unaware he had opened up or told anyone until I read it myself. I didn’t hear him say that. As you'll see from the cameras I left at 3.16. Witham remains past 4 oclock. If he’s opened up to someone, it was definitely within the time, I’ve definitely left before he’s actually done that. That’s the truth.”
PG: “If you had heard him make that confession, it would mean all that time you spent with him between then and September 13 would have been time in the knowledge of what he’d done.”
JP: “There’s no way I would have checked into a hotel that next day, there’s no way I would have parked a legit car never involved in anything like this. Why on earth is he going to do something like this in his own car?”
PG: “Let’s assume for the sake of my questioning that you didn’t hear anything said by way of a confession either because you were in the toilet or had left.”
JP: “I did leave at 3.16. I do know Witham remained in the flat.”
PG: “Let’s assume you didn’t hear that confession that we understand will be described by others. Sean Zeisz is your friend. Barry not such a good friend but a friend nonetheless. In the aftermath of August 21, in all of those days before September 13, did Sean Zeisz or Niall Barry not say to you, ‘I know you weren't there but goodness, once you’ve gone Witham confessed that he had done that awful shooting’.
JP: “None of them said that personally to me face to face. I do recall Sean Zeisz making a call going on saying he needs to see me, he needs to tell me something. I never ended up seeing him that day. I never seen not one of these co defendants after this other than Witham.”
PG: “Your position is that throughout the whole of this period you never knew James Witham had done the shooting. You hadn’t heard him confess and no one told you about this confession?”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”

 

[Legal]

14:36JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Moving the car​

Mr Greaney says: “The next day you were involved in taking the Hyundai to St Helens, is that correct?”
Peers replies: “I’ve met Witham at an address I provided to him. Yeah.”
PG: “You yourself weren’t actually in the car in St Helens but met up with him at the address.”
JP: “Yep. That morning I did meet up with Witham, I did speak to him. I wasn’t in the car at those times, but I was in the vicinity of where the phone’s been cell sited.”
PG: “You had contact with Witham that morning?”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “Was it during that contact he told you the car needed fixing?”
JP: “No he said can you get somewhere to park the car for me and that said about the car being fixed. Before all this, he’s asked me did I want to go the gym for a swim, steam and sauna.”
PG: “That was what Witham asked of you. Do you know why he thought you would know of a location for storing a vehicle any more than he would?”
JP: “I don’t. I can only assume he’s thought about me because, I don't know. I honestly can't say why he's asked me. He never told us.”
PG: “You took it not to a garage but to Kallum Radford who isn’t a mechanic?”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “You arranged for it to be stored in St Helens?”
JP: “Yeah I did.”
PG: “When the car travelled over to St Helens, it did so on false plates. Did you notice that the car was on false plates?”
JP: “When I reached Witham at Redgate, Iseen the car parked on the side. It actually bore its original plates. That’s something I would have noticed straight away.”
PG: “Is it your position Witham had driven the car over on false plates and then replaced them back?”
JP: “Quite possibly, without me knowing.”
PG: “Your phone was inactive over the time the car was being moved. You’ve told us that is mere coincidence?”
JP: “I spoke to Kallum on Billy Potter’s phone during these times, which is how I spoke to him.”
PG: “We can see that the phones of Zeisz and Fitzgibbon were also inactive over the period. Did you watch the interview conducted with Kallum Radford, when they were played on the screen
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “What he said, you’ll remember he made reference to a man called Zest. Do you know anyone that goes by the nickname Zest?”
JP: “I do, that’s Sean”.
PG: “Was he involved in the movement of that car?”
JP: “He definitely wasn’t. Kallum referred to this in the evidence we listened to, that he knew because I’d spoken to Kallum when I was on holiday. He knew that I went with a lad called Zest. That was his knowledge. He just assumed the car was dropped off by someone close to me at the time. That’s not what happened.”
PG: “You told us the car went first to Kauulm Radford’s home, then from there it was moved to the home of Abbie Jevins.”
JP: “Sure yeah.”
PG: “You were involved in moving the car.”
JP: “I drove the car with Kallum in the passenger seat. That’s the only time I’ve got behind the wheel of that car.”
PG: “Mr Swift sought to identify the date. These are messages from August 25, messages about Abbie Jevins’s dad asking about a car dumped on her drive.”
JP “That’s correct yeah”
PG: “You agreed that you moved the car on the 24th or 25th of August. The problem is, you were where?”
JP: “24th or 25th. I was in Scotland. I also agreed it could have been from the 26th to the 29th. I never, I assumed from the messages.”
PG: “The messages certainly look like the car is on Abbie Jevin’s drive. If the car was moved on the 24th or 25th it can’t have been you?”
JP: “It couldn’t. I asked to see the dates on Snapchat. you can see the time and date messages are send. On these it just says the 25th. On Snapchat itself it’s actually got a timer.”
PG: “The times are at the top of the page.”
JP: “That’s just the times though. On Snapchat, it’s got specific details about messages. It will tell you the date. None of that’s on here.”
PG: “If it was moved on the 24th or 25th if wasn’t by you was it.”
JP: “It wasn't by me no.”
PG: “Please tell the jury about the circumstances in which that car was moved?”
JP: “That car was moved following me coming home from Scotland. These messages might have the right times, they haven’t got the right dates. I came home from Scotland on the 26th. It was the following day. My position is, I accept that it was when I was back from Scotland that I got behind the wheel of the car with Kallum. That's the truth. It wasn’t before
“If these messages are dated on August 25 I’d be lying.”
PG: “You’d be lying?”
JP: “I would yeah. But I know personally I moved that car after the 26th.”

 

[Legal]

14:55JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'Witham has took my kindness for weakness'​

Mr Greaney asks: ”In the period after the killing of Ashley Dale, you spent considerable time in the company of James Witham. the time you spent was away from your normal home address.”
Peers says: “I agree, yes.”
PG: “You stayed together because you were in it together. You were away from home because you wanted to keep out of the way?”
JP: “That’s not true. If I was in it together, the car wouldn’t have been on Kallum Radford’s path. I knew the circumstances he was in at the time with his dad. I wouldn’t have put him in that position. As for booking the hotels, anyone in their right mind would have been stupid. That’s one thing I'm not. I’m not stupid. I could have been at home, not on camera, not in the public eye.
"What I can say is, after this now, learning from being in jail and looking at the deps properly, I’ve been nothing but blindsided to this. James Witham has took my kindness for weakness. I didn't know what was going on in that two hours. He’s used me after this. I would never ever have assisted in booking hotels, moving the car or put normal people like Kallum in a situation like this if I had direct knowledge of this. I was blatantly lied to, and that’s the truth here.”
PG: “Why do you believe Mr Witham was using you. Why did it help him to bring you back to the flat. Why did it help to have you in Scotland?”
JP: “I can’t say for certain. Obviously.”
PG: “If you can’t say, you can’t say.”
JP: “Only he knows that doesn’t he?”
PG: “First of all St Helens, and your first trip to the Mercure Hotel. You booked that hotel?”
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “It was paid for in cash.”
JP: “It was.”
PG: “Were you the one who paid for it?”
JP “I think so, I can't remember to be honest.”
Mr Greaney asks for the footage of them checking in to the hotel to be played to the court
PG: “You can actually see the iphone there as well. Not the Nokia.”
Peers appears to take cash from his pocket and count it out before handing it over.
JP: “It looks like I paid yeah, but i did reserve it on the card and i was given money by Witham before we got into the hotel.”
PG: “Witham had given you the money. He was with you, why did he need to give you the cash?”
JP: “That’s for Witham to say. Alls i know is he asked me to book a hotel and i did, using my own credit card.”
PG: “This was the swim steam and sauna trip. That didn't work out did it?”
JP: “No, because it was under maintenance.
PG: “You stayed for two nights together.”
JP; “The second night, I actually checked into my own room.”
PG: “What did the two of you actually do?”
JP: “I can’t remember if we went for food or just smoked outside. I can’t say for certain. What I can say is In never spoke to Witham much about this. He was quiet.”
PG: “You can’t recall any detail of what happened during that two night stay but at no stage did you learn Mr Witham had carried out the killing.”
JP: “That’s right. If he give me the knowledge, I probably wouldn’t have assisted him further. I had no knowledge of this. You see me booking hotels in Scotland.”
PG: Let’s just stay in St Helens for the time being. When you left, James Witham spent some time with his son in liverpool. He plainly had access to substantial sums of money?”
JP: “Only what I’ve seen on the cameras.”
PG: “Including making the biggest deposit of cash he’d ever made into his bank account. Do you know how he had come into substantial sums of cash?”
JP: “I don’t. Two days before we travelled to Wales, whether he picked up cash or not. That’s a question for Witham. A thousand pounds deposited into your account, I can’t answer that. I don’t know where that come from.”
PG: “The two of you then travelled to Scotland together didn’t you. During this time Mr Barry was making plans to depart the country. Mr Fitzgibbon actually did depart the country. Had you discussed with either of them the plans you had to leave the area?”
JP: “I never actually spoke to none of these. The only person that tried to make contact was sean. If it was true Witham did open up, I would have known that next day if i’d seen Sean. I never got round to seeing him the next day, otherwise things would be different now.”
PG: “You travel back from Scotland, and you are again together.”
JP: “That’s right.”
PG: “While you were in that car together, there were some events in Huyton I want to ask you about. At quarter past five, while you were in that vehicle with him, a search warrant was executed at his home in Huyton. At 5.19, we see Julia Witham, the sister of James Witham sending him a message. She’s at the house at the time. James Witham then replies 32 seconds later. Then a series of short calls by Witham to try and get in touch with Julie. You became aware while you were in that car a search warrant had been executed at his home.”
JP: “I didn’t become aware. If Witham tried to phone his sister that many times, I would have heard him speaking to her. I would have known. When we’ve come home, Witham’s got off.”
PG: “This was another thing James Witham concealed from you, he was discovering on this journey his home had been the subject of a search but didn’t tell you?”
JP: “You can’t see one of those calls connecting. I have been with him, I have gone to Scotland. I have assisted him. He has kept all the things from me. I’ve called my mother half an hour before I got home. The police never brought up to me, there’s police at our house here. Quite clearly my house would have been busted at the same time, that’s not the case here.”
PG: “What was happening was Witham discovering his house has been visited by the police. Those calls by you were to find out if your house had been subjected to the same treatment?”
JP: “That’s not true at all I don’t need to sit there and lie. I’m blatantly telling the truth. He has kept this from me.”

 

[Legal]

15:01JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Peers says he and Witham were not "paid jointly"​

Mr Greaney says: “Back in the North West, you booked rooms for yourself and James Witham at the Mercure. We see the two of you there together. The two of you are perfectly comfortable in each other’s company. Witham appears to hand you some cash. You see Mr Witham appear to have a joke with someone. Had Mr Witham handed you some cash there?”
Peers replies: “He did yeah.”
PG: “Was that to pay for the room?”
JP: “It was yeah.”
PG: “Do you agree that the two of your were perfectly comfortable in each other’s company?”
JP: “Yeah that’s right.”
PG: “You remained there for a period. We can play some further footage. It looks like you go outside with him and you’re waiting for Phoebe Birch to arrive.”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “You appear to embrace him?”
JP: “That was James actually hugging me saying thanks for booking me this hotel. Then I’m gonna go up and leave you with Phoebe, which he did.”
PG: “The next day, you and Mr Witham left the hotel. Witham then travelled back to Scotland?”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “You remained in the Liverpool area, for a period at least.”
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “On the 29th and 30th of August, there are some events. This is you on the 29th at a Post Office in Liverpool, using the bank card of James Witham who was in Scotland.”
JP: “Yeah that’s right.”
PG: “You used it to make a series of withdrawals from the account?”
JP: “That’s right.”
PG: “An account he had paid £1,000 in cash into. In total you withdrew £650. Was this you withdrawing a share of some money paid to you jointly?”
JP: “Definitely not no. as far as I’m aware nobody goes and kills someone for a thousand pounds and puts it into a bank account the next day, you’d have to be stupid.”
PG: “You were recouping money you’d paid for hotels.”
JP: “I’d arranged not one, two lifts for him. One via my uncle, one via Gary Finney. On top of that I've booked hotels and that for him. It wasn’t like he was just giving me money. He just said I could withdraw 650 out of his account.”
PG: “You hadn’t paid for the hotels in St Helens, he gave you the cash on the 21st and we see him handing over the cash. This money wasn’t to repay you for the hotels.”
JP: “It was partly because I booked them in my own name. That’s partly why he was paying me. Obviously I was unaware of this situation. If I did see Sean that day, things would have been different. It’s still baffling to me now.”

 

[Legal]

15:11JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

"The reality is that you did take part in a plot to kill Lee Harrison"​

Mr Greaney continues: “You booked a hotel for Witham in Aberdeen.”
Peers replies: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “That’s where he was but you weren’t.This was you supporting James Witham just as you had supported him in killing Ashley.”
JP: “No that’s not true. I was unaware of him killing Ashley.”
PG: “On August 30, Sean Zeisz was arrested and you became aware of that didn’t you?”
JP: “I can't say for certain I become aware of it, no. I’d be lying if i said that.”
PG: “Afterwards you contact Kallum Radford so the two of you could work out what his arrest meant for you.”
JP: “Sean’s arrest meant nothing to do with that car. Sean is nothing to do with this car.”
PG: “The day after the arrest of Sean Zeisz you changed your phone.”
JP: “I changed me phone but I still used the sSim card up until September 4. On September 4 I updated my handset to a rose gold iphone XR. it was never a Nokia.”
PG: “Four days later, you had further contact with Kallum Radford.”
JP: “I did yeah.”
PG: “He was asking you about the car.”
JP: “Yeah he was asking me about the car yeah.”
PG: “Is it your position even at that stage you had no idea that car had been involved in any crime?”
JP: “That's right. From the 26th onwards I never really spoke to Witham. I booked the hotel for him, I think it was the 30th to the 2nd. I remained in Liverpool until September 4 still unaware I was a person of interest in this case. The police never come to me.”
PG: “Then on September 4, you travelled back to Scotland?”
JP: “I was picked up by a family friend, Shannon, with her little girl.”
PG: “The reason you went back was to speak to Witham about the car?”
JP: “No, my uncle actually. I went back to Scotland. From the 21st to the 23rd I stayed with my uncle. My uncle is disabled, he’s had a stroke. His kids are buggers and don’t help him out. My mum has been casing me, go and see your uncle and sort his flat. I finally did get up there in the end. When I've stayed with them, I've said I'll come back. I’ll sort the gaffe out. That was another reason.”
PG: “I think you did tell us the reason was to sort out the issue with the car?”
JP: “That was another reason yeah.”
PG: “The fact is that you didn’t need to go to Scotland to speak to Witham about the car. You could have called him. It didn’t require a stay of 11 days to sort out the house.”
JP: “It didn’t.”
PG: “On September 5, there was a search for you at your home. The door was put in, I think, and a notice was put through the door. Did no one tell you the police had been looking for you? This was the day after you’d gone to Scotland. I’m asking whether your parents told you the police were looking for you?”
JP: “I never spoke to my mum about it that day. I think it came into conversation while I was in Scotland. Police have knocked as a person of interest.”
PG: “You travelled back from Scotland again with Witham and the two of you were arrested together. You had £500 in your pocket. Was that from the money Anthony had given you?”
JP: “No, that was from James.”
PG: “You were then interviewed.”
JP: “I was yeah.”
PG: “You declined to answer their questions?”
JP: “I was under caution for two serious charges and I took the lawyer’s best possible advice at that time.”
PG: “You were bailed after that interview. We know on September 16, the day after you had been bailed, Kallum Radford attempted to contact you.”
JP: “He did.”
PG: “It looks like you didn’t actually speak to him at that time. Do you agree bearing in mind this attempted contact was bookended by Abbie Jevins, he’s trying to speak to you about the car?”
Peers agrees
PG: “On September 23, there was contact. But not with your mobile, with your mother’s mobile. It looks as if that meaningful contact lasts for one minute and 48 seconds.”
JP: “That was with me.”
PG: “By that stage, you certainly knew that the Hyundai you had put on that drive was said to be involved in the killing of Ashley Dale.”
JP: “Yeah that’s true.”
PG: “You told Radford that in that car?”
JP: “No that's not true. The reason I used my mum’s phone is police seized my phone on the 13th.”
PG: “You were reinterviewed on January 30. Once again you declined to answer their questions.”
JP: “That’s right yeah.”
PG: “Across those interviews, you breathed not a word of what you have told this jury to the police.”
JP: “I agree yeah.”
PG: “The reality is that you did take part in a plot to kill Lee Harrison. You did take part in the killing of Ashley Dale and you were in possession of a firearm and ammunition.”
JP: “I definitely was not a part of any plot to kill Lee Harrison never mind Ashley Dale. This should never have happened. I honestly believe if I did see Sean the following day this whole outcome wouldn’t have been the same as it was shown to yous. That’s all I can say about that.”
Mr Greaney says he has no further questions.

 

[Legal]

15:21JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Peers learned of shooting from sister​

Peter Wright, KC, rises to ask questions in re-examination.
PW: “Some time ago you were asked about when you first discovered there had been a shooting in which Ashley Dale had been shot. You said that it was on the 23rd of August that you had been speaking to your sister and she informed you that there was a report in the Echo.”
Peers replies: “That’s right yeah.”
PW: “Did you see the Echo?”
JP: “I didn’t, no.”
PW: “Had you read anything in respect of this incident, the shooting?”
JP: “No I hadn't. When i've come back home before leaving to go to Scotland, I don’t search news. I don’t really take an interest in anything like that.”
PW: “It’s not suggested there’s a search in terms of the internet in this regard. The question is what you were made aware of at the time. It was through your sister, she told you there had been a shooting. Did she tell you it involved Ashley Dale or simply a shooting in Liverpool the Old Swan area?”
JP: “The last bit. What you just said.”
PW: “A shooting in the Old Swan area. The source of her information was, she said to you, what was in the Echo?”
JP: “That’s correct yeah.”
PW: “Because you were asked questions about the Hyundai, or a Hyundai, being referred to or flagged in terms of the investigation at such an early stage?”
JP: “I was yeah.”
PW: “There was no reference to a Hyundai in that report. You were being told of a shooting by your sister and that was it.”
JP; “And that was it yeah.”
PW: “At that stage have you any reason to put together a shooting with the events of the night of the Joshua boxing match.”
JP: “No I never.”
PW: “Or of your travel in a Hyundai with Mr Witham?”
JP: “I hadn’t.”
PW: “Or to suspect Mr Witham of being involved in a shooting.”
JP; “No I’d never have suspected that.”
PW: “You also gave an account in which you set out by way of the roads the route that you believe had been taken on the night of the 20th in the vehicle with Mr Witham. Were you at any time the driver for that vehicle that night?”
JP: “No I was not the driver of that vehicle that night.”
PW: “Were you ever alone in that vehicle that night?”
JP: “No.”
PW: “Were you ever in convoy with a red Golf?”
JP: “I wasn’t.”
PW: “You were asked questions about your telephone number and made the observation that the most recent version of this document. A document of this sort would be added to during the course of this investigation.”
Mr Wright asks for the jury to be shown details of a call from Zeisz to Peers on the evening of August 20, at 23.09.
PW: “That phone was not your phone?”
JP: “No.”
PW: “Can we understand what you mean by that. You’ve made reference to an iPhone. So far as the handset in which you had the Sim, was it ever the case you had a Nokia handset?”
JP: “No that wasn’t the case.”
PW; “This particular image here is of a Nokia phone. You never had such a phone?”
JP: “No, that’s right.”
PW: “The phone you did have was an iPhone.”
JP: “That’s right.”
PW: “How long had you had that iPhone?”
JP: “A couple of months, I can't remember to be honest.”
PW: “The point you were seeking to make was that you had it on do not disturb. Are you referring to a facility on an iPhone, not a Nokia phone?”
JP: “That’s correct yeah.”
PW: “And also on the iPhone, did it have aeroplane mode?”
JP: “It did yeah.”
PW: “Are you saying they’re the same or different?”
JP: “They’re different.”
Mr Wright says there is cell siting around 23.10.
JP: “Mr Greaney put to me that I was the driver of this car. It was me in the car on my own and Witham was somewhere else. I’ve accepted I was in the car just after 11 oclock. This shows before this has even happened. If you look at 23.08, I'm cell sited with Witham. That’s in the area of the flat.”
PW: “You upgraded your handset and got a new number. That phone was recovered when you were arrested. Hence the reason you’re saying that, later, you used your mother’s phone to contact Mr Raford. You didn’t have a phone.”
JP: “Radford contacted my mum.”
PW: “You then went on to say that, in respect of this phone, the SIM was still being used until September 4.”
JP: “That’s correct yeah.”
PW: “Is it the case that you got rid of your number on August 31 and started to use a different phone?”
JP: “That’s not the case. I was using that phone to check into hotels and going about my normal day.”
The court will now take a short break, resuming at 3.30pm.

 

[Legally Bland]

16:34JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Court adjourned​

Mr Justice Goose says the court will now adjourn until tomorrow morning due to a delay in moving to the next part of the case.
The jury are asked to return at 10.30am tomorrow. Thanks for following our coverage, we will be back with further live updates in the morning.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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