GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

[Legally Bland]

11:44KEY EVENT

James Witham is cross examined by the prosecution​

Mr Reiz has no further questions.
Paul Greaney, KC, prosecuting, will now cross examine James Witham.
PG: “I want to be very clear with you from the outset what it is I am going to be suggesting. And it’s this. Over the course of the last two days you have presented to this jury a pack of lies. The truth is that you went to 40 Leinster Road with Joseph Peers in order to kill Lee Harrison, letting no one get in your way.”
JW: “That’s a pack of lies that.”
PG: “You were sent to carry out that terrible tasks by Niall Barry, supported by Sean Zeisz and Ian Fitzgibbon.”
JW: “No, it’s totally not true.”
PG: “You are lying to this jury in the hope of getting the shortest possible sentence for yourself and getting the others off Scot free. Aren’t you.”
JW: “No I just done the right thing. I pleaded guilty to manslaughter. It’s had nothing to do with no one, it was all down to me. My beef. They shouldn’t be in there.”
PG: “Your conscious has got the better of you?”
JW: “That’s the truth.”
PG: “You are someone prepared to tell lies?”
JW: “That’s not true.”
PG: “Lies about things of the greatest important?”
JW: “Thats not true.”
PG: “You’re prepared to tell lies about the circumstances in which Ashley was killed.”
JW: “That’s not true.”
PG: “You aren’t prepared to tell lies about the circumstances in which AShley was killed? You said to the police when they asked you what had happened to Ashley that you had nothing to do with it.”
JW: “The state I was in, now I’ve actually done the right thing. Stepped up and done it.”
PG: “That was a bare faced lie.”
JW: “It was a lie.”
PG: “You knew you had killed Ashley and were telling the police it was nothing to do with you.”
JW: “My head was battered. I should have done it from day one. I’m a coward.”
PG: “The next day you said you had been set up.”
JW: “I wasn't thinking straight.”
PG: “That was another bare faced lie.”
JW: “No. I wasn't lying. I was lying there. It was me that done it.”
PG: “You knew you had killed Ashley and you were telling terrible lies to try and escape the consequences.”
JW: “No I was given legal advice to go no comment.”
PG: “That is what you have continued to do, tell lie after lie.”
JW: “I admit it. It was me that done it, me. No one else.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

11:54KEY EVENT

'I've had a year of torture'​

Mr Greaney says: “You filed a defence statement in this case dated August 16 this year. Your defence statement was dated and signed by you just five days short of the first anniversary of Ashley’s death.”
Witham says: “I haven’t slept for a year. I have nightmares. I don’t think it’s true.”
PG: “You had had a year, just about a year, to think about these events of August 21.”
JW: “I’ve had a year of torture in my life, what I’ve done to that poor girl.”
PG: “It’s been torture for you? It’s been a nightmare for you?”
JW: “And her family as well. I’m sorry. I never meant for it to happen.”
PG: “In that defence statement you lied and lied and lied.”
JW: “I didn’t know what to do. NowI’ve owned up to it.”
Witham asks Justice Goose if he can sit down because he has a “sore knee”
The judge says we will have a break soon.
JW: “I just have a bit of a sore knee.”
PG: “I’m sorry to hear that Mr Witham.”
Mr Greaney refers back to the defence statement. PG: “At that stage it was your intention to come to the jury and say none of this had nothing to do with me.”
JW: “That’s why I’ve pleaded guilty so the family wouldn’t have to come to a trial. I offered to plead guilty to murder, but they wouldn't take it.”
PG: “You went on to say the defendant denies possession of or knowledge of any firearm or ammunition.”
JW: “Yeah true.”
PG: “That was a barefaced lie.”
JW: “I’ve admitted to what I’ve done now and told the truth.”
PG: “What you were saying in August was a barefaced lie.”
JW: “I think it was yeah.”
Mr Greaney reads: “The reason why the defendant takes issue with these allegations is because they are untrue and wrongly implicate him with regard to serious offences in which he played no part.”
Witham says: “That was then, this is now. I’ve admitted it.”
PG: “The defendant did not travel in the Hyundai to the area of 40 Leinster Road on the 20th or 21st of august. That was a lie.”
JW: “Yeah it was.”
PG: “He did not play any part in damage to a motor vehicle and did not enter 40 Leinster Road. That was a lie.”
JW: “Yeah.”
PG: “You said that at 10pm you and Peers had left the flat. That you had dropped Peers at around 11pm. You said after dropping off Peers, the defendant travelled to his home address. The defendant believes he was home in Huyton. You were proposing to advance an alibi.”
JW: “That was then, it’s different now. I’ve admitted to what I’ve done. I’m sorry for everything. You wasn't there, I was there. I know the truth.”
PG: “The defendant later returned to the flat at Pilch Lane and returned there until 4am. He believed he may have left his bank card there. That was a lie.”
JW: “Yeah.”
PG: “Even if the jury can accept that your head was battered following your arrest, by now you had had a year to think about it.”
JW: “I haven’t slept for a year. It’s been eating me up for a year.”
PG: “You painted yourself as blameless and you were lying in the biggest possible way to the prosecution and the court.”
JW: “I never told them the proper truth, but I am now.”
PG: “What has happened is you have realised your denial is hopeless.”
JW: “No, I realised I've got other people arrested and they shouldn't be. It’s all down to my fault.”
PG: “Your DNA is on a bullet casing recovered from the scene. You are associated with a car used by the killers.”
JW: “Killer, it was me on my own.”
PG: “You have decided to admit the least you think you can get away with.”
JW: “No, it falls on me to do the right thing.”
PG: “You’re the fall guy for the others.”
JW: “That’s not true. No one could do that to me.”
PG: “You take the fall and let the others walk away.”
JW: “No, it’s the truth. It’s nothing to do with the others.”
Mr Greaney says of his account: “I’m going to suggest it was a work of fiction.”
PG: “That’s your point. I know the truth. I was there.”
Mr Greaney suggests this would be a convenient time for a short break, he says he will then “establish your subservience to Niall Barry”.
The court will now take a break, resuming at 12.15pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

From Legally's link above


JWitham: “That’s why I’ve pleaded guilty so the family wouldn’t have to come to a trial.

I offered to plead guilty to murder, but they wouldn't take it.”

 

[Legally Bland]

12:32JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'You were taking the fall for Barry'​

Mr Greaney rises to continue his cross-examination.
PG: “In summer last year you knew Niall Barry was a supplier of drugs in a major way?”
JW: “I’d say so yeah.”
PG: “You knew he had access to firearms including automatic firearms.”
JW: “No I never heard him speak about it or nothing.”
PG: “We know you killed Ashley with a Skorpion sub-machine gun, is it your case it's just a coincidence that was the type of weapon he was able to source?”
JW: “It was nothing to do with Niall Barry?”
PG: “It is a coincidence.”
JW: “If you say so.”
PG: “The truth is, you worked for Niall Barry didn't you?”
JW: “No, that’s totally wrong. I’m older than him, if anything he’d be working for me.”
PG: “Age has nothing to do with it. You worked for him in his criminal enterprise.”
JW: “I never, I worked on my own.”
PG: “Your role in giving evidence is to get Niall Barry out of it.”
JW: “That’s true what I've said, he’s got nothing to do with it. He shouldn't even be here.”
PG: “It was Niall Barry that operated the Kyle Line.”
JW: “Both of us went down and set a phone up, I bought his half of it.”
PG: “You were his joey, his gopher.”
JW: “He was mine if you say that. I’d send him.”
PG: “In a county line, is that phone important.”
JW: “Er yeah, it is.”
PG: “One of the reasons you became so cross with Lee Harrison is because he had pinched a phone.”
JW: “Yeah.”
PG: “The reason the phone is important is because its through the phone the details of the customers are preserved.”
JW: “Er yeah.”
PG: “Niall Barry said repeatedly that was his phone. That phone was in his possession when he was arrested at Formby Hall Hotel. On July 8 when Niall Barry attempted to sell the Audi, he was referred to as Kyle. So let me suggest to you the Kyle Line was Niall Barry’s.”
JW: “That’s untrue.”
PG: “He was the leader of an organised crime group.”
JW: “That's not true as well.”
PG: “And you worked for him.”
JW: “That’s definitely untrue.”
PG: “At Glastonbury last year, did you travel in the Audi?”
JW: “Yeah I did.”
PG: “Did you drive Niall Barry to Glastonbury?”
JW: “Yeah.”
PG: “Did you share a room with him?”
JW: “Yeah that’s correct.”
PG: “At Glastonbury, there are obviously a number of events. One of the events concerned a knife. Can we identify the bag that contained the knife. Let’s just play that footage.”
The footage, from a police body camera, shows an offcer speaking to Barry and Witham and asking to take a photograph of them.
PG: “Barry has that bag on June 25. Then later he has that bag at Formby Hall Hotel. He agreed it was the same bag, and the reason he had that bag was because it was his bag.”
JW: “That's untrue that. I've said it was my bag.”
PG: “Whilst at Glastonbury, you were stopped whilst in a taxi with Niall Barry.”
JW: “That’s correct yeah.”
PG: “In the back, there were two bags. There was the bag we’ve just been looking at and a black holdall. Two bags, and Niall Barry told us the black holdall was yours.”
JW: “Both of them was. He only had a bit of clothes that he had in that bag, that’s why he had hold of it.”
PG: “Two bags, two men. That bag we saw was Niall Barry’s but you won’t accept that?”
JW: “That was my bag. When I come home I left it in the flat.”
PG: “In the bag, the police found Niall Barry’s passport, some of his clothing and a knife.”
JW: “I put his passport in my bag, I just put a few of his things in there. I forgot my knife was in there.”
PG: “It was his knife.”
JW: “No it was my knife, I said it was.”
PG: “You took the blame, when the police spoke to you, for the knife.”
JW: “It was my knife.”
PG: “You were taking the fall for Barry, just as you are now.”
JW: “I’m not gonna take a murder charge for other people. I pleaded guilty. I done the right thing.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legal]

What a whinging, self-serving, miserable coward Witham is. Banging on about what a terrible year he's had, plagued with nightmares and sleepless nights. Saying how he wanted to plead guilty to save Ashley's family sitting through a trial. Saying all of this in front of her parents. He's despicable.

And then to have the audacity to ask the judge if he can sit down because he's got a sore knee! The poor love.

 

[Dotta]

What a whinging, self-serving, miserable coward Witham is. Banging on about what a terrible year he's had, plagued with nightmares and sleepless nights. Saying how he wanted to plead guilty to save Ashley's family sitting through a trial. Saying all of this in front of her parents. He's despicable.

And then to have the audacity to ask the judge if he can sit down because he's got a sore knee! The poor love.

Yep.
My patience is running thin

 

[Legally Bland]

12:42JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'You are seeking to take the fall for your boss'​

Mr Greaney says: “This was your car. The truth is that car was controlled by Niall Barry.”
Witham says: “No.”
PG: On July 8, Niall Barry offered that vehicle for sale didn’t he?”
JW: “I asked him to try and sell it for me.”
PG: “We can see that Niall Barry is seeking to sell it to Sean Zeisz.”
JW: “It looks like that yeah.”
PG: “At no stage does he suggest he’s acting on your behalf.”
JW: “He doesn’t have to does he.”
PG: “He’s acting just as the owner of a car would.”
JW: “He’s just trying to sell the car and make a profit.”
PG: “It was Niall Barry who sought to insure the car.”
JW: “I asked him, I was busy. I asked him get on Davo’s mate, see if you can insure the car for me.”
PG: “Later on he chases it.”
JW: “I’d been asking him to do it for me because I was in Wales.”
PG: “There isn't the slightest hint you’re involved in any of that.”
JW: “I’ve asked him to do that on my behalf.”
PG: “Niall Barry is insuring that vehicle.”
JW: “He’s asking one of Davo’s mates can he insure the car for me.”
PG “Niall Barry was seeking to sell the car, he was seeking the insure the car and he was doing all of that because he controlled it.”
JW: “He was only doing it because I asked him to do it for me.”
PG: “You are seeking to take the fall for your boss.”
JW: “It’s totally wrong that. It’s what you think, it’s not true though.”
PG: “You seek to maintain that the Hyundai was your car. This is August 12, when the arrangements for the acquisition start to be made. Niall Barry contacts David McCaig and David McCaig makes that contact with Brian Gowland. What was happening was Niall Barry was directing David McCaig.”
JW: “I think I was using his phone then. I phoned David McCaig.”
PG: “I hadn’t finished my question, please bear with me. Niall Barry is directing David McCaig to make the acquisition.”
JW: “On my behalf as well.”
Mr Justice Goose interjects: “It doesn’t help if you speak across somebody, because we can’t hear the question you are being asked.”
Witham says: “Sorry. I’m just nervous that’s all it is. It’s the hardest thing i've had to do in my life.”
JG: “You’re doing it to me now.”
JW: “I’m just nervous.”
JG: “Don’t do it, It’s better that you listen then answer.”
JW: “Sorry.”
Mr Greaeny continues: “Niall Barry is instructing David McCaig to make the acquisition. I think you may have told me two different things while talking over me. You may have said you were using his phone and then he was doing it on your behalf, they are different things.”
JW: “I asked to do it on my behalf, I was in the flat with him and leant his phone to phone David McCaig.”
PG: “Why didn’t you call David McCaig yourself?”
JW: “ I don’t know, I must have had no battery on my phone or never had my phone on me, I used Niall Barry’s.”
PG: “We can see David McCaig is seeking to make arrangements in relation to the car. You’re now involved in the communications on the day the car is to be acquired.”
JW: “That’s correct yeah.”
PG: “David McCaig is making contact with Brian Gowland. Why is David McCaig doing all of this if it’s going to be your car?”
JW: “He’s making a profit on it. He doesn’t do nothing for nothing.”
PG: “The truth is this is Niall Barry sending you and David McCaig another member of the gang to get a new car for use in Niall Barry’s operation.”
JW: “That’s false.”
PG: “This is a message stored on the Kyle Line phone that Niall Barry has repeatedly said was his, and that was in his possession. He recorded the details for a cloned number plate in that phone.”
JW: “I don’t think he done it, I asked him to do it for me though. I’ve asked him to get on Davo, see if he can get a plate for me. He might have been with Davo, he must have put it in his phone.”
PG: “Why did you ask him to make that record?”
JW: “I was busy doing something.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legal]

I think Witham is losing it and the prosecutor knows it. He's nowhere near clever enough for this. I feel he's definitely going to drop himself and the others in it during this cross-examination.

Plus, he didn't like it when it was suggested he worked for Niall. He was very sensitive about the age thing. I reckon the prosecutor could use that to rile him.

JMO

 

[Legally Bland]

12:51JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'Lee Harrison was a slimy kid'​

Mr Greaney says: “I’m going to move onto the question of motive, why you went to the home of Ashley Dale and shot her dead.”
Witham says: “It was a warning to Lee Harrison.”
PG: “We’ll start with the exchange of messages of July 26. This is a sequence that involves you, Niall Barry and Lee Harrison. You knew there was major beef between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison didn’t you.”
JW: “I thought it was all over.”
PG: “The exchanges were all to do with that major beef.”
JW: “No.”
PG: “You knew as well Niall Barry’s intention was to make serious threats of violence to Lee Harrison?”
JW: “Not really no. I don’t see that in him.”
PG: “Your position Mr Witham, is Lee Harrison had been making your life a misery for five years.”
JW: “The last four or five years yeah he’s done a few little horrible things to me.”
PG: “He was doing horrible things like not paying you for drugs and stealing a phone?”
JW: “He’s robbed my house of crack, he’s robbed my mate, 30 grand out of his car.”
Mr Greaney displays the photograph of Witham, Ashley Dale and Lee Harrison posing together at a festival.
PG: “You told us this was the last Glastonbury before lockdown. Let me remind you, that was 2019.”
JW: “Four years ago wasn’t it.”
PG: “It wasn’t five years ago, it wasn’t four years ago. It was three years before you shot Ashley and well within the period you say Lee Harrison was making your life a misery. Is that you with a man who had been doing horrible things to you?”
JW: “Yeah, yeah.”
PG: “Secondly, you told the jury that you had been to the home of Lee Harrison on a number of occasions.”
JW: “That’s true.”
PG: “You said that you had been to that house about a year before you killed Ashley?”
JW: “About a year, year and a bit.”
PG: “How so were you in his home in the summer of 2021?”
JW: “He wanted to speak to me and sort it out with me. He was basically taking the piss out of me.”
PG: “Is there a reason you didn’t tell the jury that yesterday?”
JW: “Yesterday my nerves were gone. I’ve had guilt for the last year. I can’t sleep, I can’t do nothing. I tried to kill myself a few times but i’ve got kids so I know not to. My head’s gone scatty. I bottled it up in myself.”
PG: “Mr Witham, two things. We’ve heard a lot about the impact on you on the killing of Ashley. And I suggest you leave the making of speeches to Mr Pratt at the end of the evidence. Now, what has happened in front of this jury is I have pointed out to you something entirely inconsistent with your claim you attacked the house, because you had been the subject of horrible things for five years. On the hoof you have made up another untruth.”
JW: “That’s not true, the kid’s a slimy kid”
PG: “Consistently between the return from Glastonbury and her death, Ashley was describing a dispute between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry.”
JW: “That’s what it says yeah.”
PG: “Your name does not feature a single time.”
JW: “That’s true yeah.”
PG: “Because your account of your dispute with Lee Harrison is, to use a word you used yesterday, .”
JW: “Basically yeah.”
PG: “You know James Witham, that the attack on 40 Leinster Road had nothing to do with your confected motive. It was to do with Branch and Saz and Zest and Dusty.”
JW: “You’re totally wrong there. Not true at all.”
PG: “That’s why you went there to that house. You went to kill.”
JW: “No, not at all.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[acjack74]

I think Witham is losing it and the prosecutor knows it. He's nowhere near clever enough for this. I feel he's definitely going to drop himself and the others in it during this cross-examination.

Plus, he didn't like it when it was suggested he worked for Niall. He was very sensitive about the age thing. I reckon the prosecutor could use that to rile him.

JMO

Agree. He’s very weak isn’t he? Very much in victim mode, saying some shocking things. Think the statement below sums him up - hardest thing because he knows he can’t screw up:

Witham says: “Sorry. I’m just nervous that’s all it is. It’s the hardest thing i've had to do in my life.”

 

[Legal]

PG: “Because your account of your dispute with Lee Harrison is, to use a word you used yesterday, .”

JW: “Basically yeah.”

The missing word is a synonym for "load of rubbish". And he's admitting it!

 

[LouTennant]

12:51JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'Lee Harrison was a slimy kid'​

Mr Greaney says: “I’m going to move onto the question of motive, why you went to the home of Ashley Dale and shot her dead.”
Witham says: “It was a warning to Lee Harrison.”
PG: “We’ll start with the exchange of messages of July 26. This is a sequence that involves you, Niall Barry and Lee Harrison. You knew there was major beef between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison didn’t you.”
JW: “I thought it was all over.”
PG: “The exchanges were all to do with that major beef.”
JW: “No.”
PG: “You knew as well Niall Barry’s intention was to make serious threats of violence to Lee Harrison?”
JW: “Not really no. I don’t see that in him.”
PG: “Your position Mr Witham, is Lee Harrison had been making your life a misery for five years.”
JW: “The last four or five years yeah he’s done a few little horrible things to me.”
PG: “He was doing horrible things like not paying you for drugs and stealing a phone?”
JW: “He’s robbed my house of crack, he’s robbed my mate, 30 grand out of his car.”
Mr Greaney displays the photograph of Witham, Ashley Dale and Lee Harrison posing together at a festival.
PG: “You told us this was the last Glastonbury before lockdown. Let me remind you, that was 2019.”
JW: “Four years ago wasn’t it.”
PG: “It wasn’t five years ago, it wasn’t four years ago. It was three years before you shot Ashley and well within the period you say Lee Harrison was making your life a misery. Is that you with a man who had been doing horrible things to you?”
JW: “Yeah, yeah.”
PG: “Secondly, you told the jury that you had been to the home of Lee Harrison on a number of occasions.”
JW: “That’s true.”
PG: “You said that you had been to that house about a year before you killed Ashley?”
JW: “About a year, year and a bit.”
PG: “How so were you in his home in the summer of 2021?”
JW: “He wanted to speak to me and sort it out with me. He was basically taking the piss out of me.”
PG: “Is there a reason you didn’t tell the jury that yesterday?”
JW: “Yesterday my nerves were gone. I’ve had guilt for the last year. I can’t sleep, I can’t do nothing. I tried to kill myself a few times but i’ve got kids so I know not to. My head’s gone scatty. I bottled it up in myself.”
PG: “Mr Witham, two things. We’ve heard a lot about the impact on you on the killing of Ashley. And I suggest you leave the making of speeches to Mr Pratt at the end of the evidence. Now, what has happened in front of this jury is I have pointed out to you something entirely inconsistent with your claim you attacked the house, because you had been the subject of horrible things for five years. On the hoof you have made up another untruth.”
JW: “That’s not true, the kid’s a slimy kid”
PG: “Consistently between the return from Glastonbury and her death, Ashley was describing a dispute between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry.”
JW: “That’s what it says yeah.”
PG: “Your name does not feature a single time.”
JW: “That’s true yeah.”
PG: “Because your account of your dispute with Lee Harrison is, to use a word you used yesterday, .”
JW: “Basically yeah.”
PG: “You know James Witham, that the attack on 40 Leinster Road had nothing to do with your confected motive. It was to do with Branch and Saz and Zest and Dusty.”
JW: “You’re totally wrong there. Not true at all.”
PG: “That’s why you went there to that house. You went to kill.”
JW: “No, not at all.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

I did think like someone above that the prosecution where not that great in making it seem like a conspiracy. I think I may be changing my tune as it seems the prosecution have waited until JW to weave it all together.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

What a whinging, self-serving, miserable coward Witham is. Banging on about what a terrible year he's had, plagued with nightmares and sleepless nights. Saying how he wanted to plead guilty to save Ashley's family sitting through a trial. Saying all of this in front of her parents. He's despicable.

And then to have the audacity to ask the judge if he can sit down because he's got a sore knee! The poor love.

I think the knee was a diversion tactic. It comes across that he’s struggling with the pressure of the questioning from the reporting.

 

[bobbymkii]

His knees are weak
arms are heavy

I bet there's vomit on his sweater already too

 

[Legal]

What a lovely, kind, helpful bunch of dealers and thieves!

“I asked Peers to come to the hotel and get me to Scotland and that’s what he done out the kindness of his heart.”

Witham says: “I asked him because I knew he would, he’s a nice person.”

 

[Legally Bland]

14:20JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

"All of the account that you have given the jury is lies"​

Mr Greaney say: “I’m going to take you to the evening of August 20.”
Witham says: “What specific time?”
PG: “Let’s say about 10 o’clock.”
JW: “We was all drinking, we was having a good time. One of my co defendants started being a bit funny with me, trying to take the piss out of me. Made a show of me, belittled me in front of everyone, I don’t really know.”
PG: “There came a time when you left 267 Pilch Lane. Have you been listening carefully to the evidence and what your co-accused have said?”
JW: “Yeah.”
PG: “You agree, I expect, that we’ve heard various accounts of your departure.”
JW: “That’s true yeah.”
PG: “We heard from Mr Fitzgibbon and also from Mr Peers, that you left with incident?”
JW: “Basically yeah, that’s what they said yeah.”
PG: “Mr Barry and Mr Zeisz, they essentially said you were instructed to leave, told to get out?”
JW: “No it’s only Niall that’s asked me to leave.”
PG: “Your own account is different still, you were belittled by Niall Barry. Humiliated?”
JW: “That’s what I felt like yeah.”
PG: “You left because you were humiliated and embarrassed?”
JW: “Basically, yeah”
PG: “I’m going to suggest the reason we’ve not received anywhere near a consistent account is because you and Peers left because you had been sent on your way to carry out the killing of Lee Harrison.”
JW: “That’s not true that. It was a moment of madness.”
PG: “None of you are prepared to admit that truth.”
JW: “I’ve come here and admitted it. Glastonbury is a load of bo******.”
PG: “Well, the beef between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry isn’t a load of bo*****?”
JW: “That’s years old, that’s when we were were kids. It wasn’t planned. It was a moment of madness. I’ve got to live the rest of my life knowing what i’ve done to that girl.”
PG: “The reality is you’d taken steps to disguise the identity of that car.”
JW: “That was after I slashed the tyres.”
PG: “Before you opened fire in 40 Leinster Road. In the period before you left 267 Pilch Lane, you’d been trying to order cocaine?”
JW: “That’s true, I was gonna.”
PG: “Between 20:26 and 22:09, there was no traffic on your telephone. Can I ask whether you were you trying to order cocaine by shouting out the window?”
JW: “No I got Kershaw to do it for me.”
PG: “You left with Joseph Peers?”
JW: “He left first, I followed him.”
PG: “Did you know he lived little more than five minutes walk away.”
JW: “10, 15 minutes walk basically. Depends how fast you walk.”
PG: “It’s not far away is it.”
JW: “Not really no.”
PG: “You insisted that he should travel in your car?”
JW: “I said I’ll drop him off yeah.”
PG: “You said he wasn’t happy but he just got in.”
JW: “Yeah basically yeah.”
PG: “Why was it you were so keen to have Joseph Peers in your car?”
JW: “I’d been told to leave the flat by Niall. I was gonna watch the fight with him and his dad but I never got to do that.”
PG: “You told him you’d drop him home and reluctantly he got in. you drove in completely the opposite direction?”
JW: “I was just a bit drunk, obviously. I went to see Davo to get me car fixed.”
PG: “Having told him you’d drop him home, you then drove in a different direction?”
JW: “I can’t recollect what way I drove, I’d lost me head.”
PG: “Having been unable to speak to dm you drove in order to pick up some drugs?”
JW: “Yeah yeah.”
PG: “You told the jury you went to buy cocaine?”
JW: “Yeah that’s true.”
PG: “Joseph Peers told the jury you went to buy cannabis.”
JW: “Cannabis and cocaine.”
PG: “There is a big difference between cocaine and cannabis.”
JW: “That’s true.”
PG: “The reason you and Joseph Peers said different things was because it is untrue that you went to buy any drug.”
JW: “No it's true, we got a bag of cocaine and a bag of weed.”
Mr Greaney says there is a call at 10.54 from James Witham to Barry Westall.
PG: “On your account, you are still with Joseph Peers?”
JW: “That’s true.”
PG: “You are bound to agree with me that’s a full 45 minutes after you left 267 Pilch Lane?”
JW: “If you say so yeah.”
PG: “That’s my maths. Do you agree on your account, a journey that would have taken 10 minutes to walk and a couple of minutes to drive has taken the best part of an hour.”
JW: “We went to Davo’s, drove around, waited around a bit.”
PG: “Focus on my question. Joseph Peers wanted to go home to watch the boxing with his dad. What we see is that 45 minutes later, he still has not reached his home.”
JW: “I kept him in the car with me.”
PG: “All of the account that you have given the jury is lies.”
JW: “It’s not”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:29KEY EVENT

'You had been dropped off by Peers to pick up the Skorpion'​

Mr Greaney asks for the CCTV of the Hyundai to be played to the court.
PG: “Can you see the car travelling in the area of Old Swan?”
Witham: “I can yeah.”
PG: “There it is. 10.20, it’s turning onto Glen Road. the position is that the Hyundai, having left 267 Pilch Lane, goes to the Old Swan area.”
JW: “Yeah that’s true.”
PG: “I’m not going to suggest that it, or the occupant, go on to Leinster Road. but that car has gone within a stone’s throw.”
JW: “Davo lives there though in Oak Hill Park. That's where I was going.”
PG: “Where that vehicle goes is near to 40 Leinster Road.”
JW: “No, not at that time no.”
PG: “We’ve seen that vehicle go on to and then away from Glen Road. you just weren’t in that car were you.”
JW: “I was yeah.”
PG: “You were not in that car at that stage at 20 past 10.”
JW: “You weren't there, I was. I was in that car.”
Mr Greaney says there are a series of phone calls which he suggests is “those within 267 Pilch Lane seeing how the plot was progressing”.
PG: “The investigation was able to obtain cell siting data from your calls your phone was involved in.”
JW: “If you say that yeah.”
PG: “Mr Tarpey, the expert, was able to identify where your phone was at those times. Shall I remind you of what Mr Tarpey found, and of his unchallenged evidence? He dealt with a period between 10 o'clock and 10.48. The period that deals with those calls and the movements of the Hyundai in Old Swan. His conclusion was this. During this period, there were several sightings of a grey Hyundai and a Volkswagen golf in the Old Swan area.
"There’s been no suggestion by you or Mr Peers the grey Hyundai was other than the vehicle you travelled in. He went on to say that a mobile attributed to James Witham did not use any cell suggesting it could have been in the vehicle. The conclusion of the expert was that your mobile did not use any cell suggesting it could have been in the vehicle. That Mr Wiham, exposes your lies. You were not in that car were you.”
JW: “I was in that car yeah.”
PG: “The reality is you had been dropped off by Peers to pick up the Skorpion.”
JW: “No that's not true.”
PG: “What we saw was Joseph Peers driving that car without you in it doing a recce of the area before picking you back up.”
JW: “That’s untrue that.”
PG: “When your phone made those calls, there’s nothing to indicate it could have been in the car?”
JW; “I understand it. I was in the car at that time with Joseph.”
Richard Pratt, KC, defending Witham, object: “Forgive me My Lord, the final conclusion of the expert was the phone was probably not in the car at that time.”
Justice Goose says: “Not consistent with being in the car, that’s the way these things are usually expressed.”
Pratt “He did use the word probably, of that I have no doubt.”
Mr Greaney says: “He ultimately adopted the conclusion I have put, but we can all check our notes.”
Justice Goose “It wasn’t a conclusion that was challenged.”
PG: “What I'm suggesting is that this goes very strongly to establish that you were not in the car at that time. I will give you one more chance to accept that.”
JW: “I’m telling you the truth, I was.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:36JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'My life is over'​

Mr Greaney moves on. He says: “Let’s turn next to the attack on the car. At six minutes past 11, Ian Fitzgibbon is attempting to contact you. Nine seconds later, Sean Zeisz is attempting to contact Joseph Peers. one second after that Ian Fitzgibbon is seeking to contact Joseph Peers, 19 seconds later he’s attempting to contact you. At 23.10, there's Sean Zeisz having contact with Joseph Peers. All of that contact was to see how the plot was progressing.”
Witham replies: “That’s off all their personal phones. Conspiracy murder, use their personal phones. It doesn’t make sense. None of them knew what was happening. I never told them for months, never spoke to no one about it.”
PG: “That contact Sean Zeisz to Joseph Peers, that’s just 25 minutes before the attack on the car.”
The movements of the Hyundai before the attack on Ashley’s car, as captured by CCTV, are now played on an interactive map.
PG: “There we see the Hyundai you’re in edging towards Leinster Road and backing away. There it is now on Leinster Road. in that period you and Joseph Peers left the Hyundai and went to the Volkswagen T-Roc of Ashley didn’t you?”
JW: “No, I just did on my own. Joseph Peers wasn’t with me.”
PG: “One of you stabbed two tyres on one side, one of you stabbed one tyre on the other side.”
JW: “No, I stabbed all three of them.”
PG: “You haven’t even remembered to say that the knife broke during the attack.”
JW: “Yesterday, the hardest thing I've had to do in my life. My head was battered yesterday. I was confused. They shouldn't be here. It’s all down to me. They’re in jail because of me. They couldn’t send me to do anything. It’s cost me my life, I’m not going to take a charge for them, I’m not gonna see my kids again. I’m telling you now it was me, no one else.”
PG: “Mr Pratt said to you, ‘was there any difficulty with the knife?’ You had forgotten.”
JW: “You’re saying that. Not true.”
PG: “Do you remember the evidence of the expert. He expressed his view that two different implements caused the damage. One on one side and one on the other. He rejected the idea that the difference might be down to a broken knife.”
JW; “I was off me head, I can’t remember. Whether it snapped or not I don’t know but it was me that done it.”
PG: “The reason why two different weapons were used was because there were different weapons in different hands. One in your hand, and one in Peers’ hand.”
JW: “Untrue.”
PG: “What you were doing was trying to flush out Lee Harrison, if he was in the house, or whoever else was there so you could shoot them outside. But it didn’t work because Ashley thought the rain had caused the alarm to sound. Your account of Peers not being there is designed to protect Joseph Peers who was there and thoroughly involved.”
JW: “I would not protect anyone. It had nothing to do with anyone else.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legal]

He's contradicting what they said about him coming back to the flat and telling them what happened.

Witham replies: “That’s off all their personal phones. Conspiracy murder, use their personal phones. It doesn’t make sense. None of them knew what was happening. I never told them for months, never spoke to no one about it.”

 

[Legally Bland]

14:42KEY EVENT

'Big Dave and Little Dave'​

Mr Greaney says: “Yesterday was the first time that we and the jury heard anything about LIttle Dave and his brother.”
Witham replies: “Yesterday was the first time I've opened up to anyone, in this room with all these people. I was a bit emotional. It’s not a nice thing. I bottled it up in my head for this long.”
PG: “I’m sorry it’s not a nice feeling. But you will appreciate these are important issues to explore. Little Dave, what’s his name?”
JW: “I just know him as Dave.”
PG: “What’s his name?”
JW: “Dave.”
PG: “Dave what?”
JW: “Just Dave.”
PG: “What’s the name of his brother in Spain?”
JW: “Dave. I call them big Dave and little Dave.”
PG: “What you explained was little Dave’s brother, big Dave was in Spain deriving from evidence in connection with an EncroChat device. You were at the Everton game and you spoke to big Dave. You didn’t speak to him on your phone, as there would be evidence either way wouldn’t there?”
JW: “I spoke to him on his brother’s phone.”
PG: “Little Dave rang big Dave.”
JW: “I used to work with him in Blackpool. I was on the phone for about 15, 20 minutes.”
PG: “I think it was 10 minutes yesterday, but I'm not going to quibble. When was this?”
JW; “It was when we were in the match, before it kicked off. We were having a drink downstairs?”
PG: “He told you he had buried a Skorpion sub-machine gunin Stadt Moers Park under the arch on Dales Row?”
JW: “Yeah true.”
PG: “He asked you if you could sell it on his behalf?”
JW: “He was skint, give the money to his little brother.”
PG: “Did he explain why he asked you?”
JW: “He’s not gonna ask his brother. I’m his friend. I never thought nothing of it at the time.”
PG: “Did you have any expertise Big Dave might have drawn upon, in the sale of automatic weapons?”
JW: “I couldn’t recollect that no.”
PG: “I am going to ask you step back and consider this tale of big Dave and little Dave, this is your evidence, your chance to give your account. It is lies.”
JW: “Thats the truth.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk