GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

[Legally Bland]

11:03OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Ashley Dale 'pleased' Ian Fitzgibbon was going to Glastonbury, defence says​

Mr Cooper continues: “Glastonbury, the events of Glastonbury 2022, are important. You will have to decide whether Ian Fitzgibbon is telling you the truth about what happened at Glastonbury between him and Niall Barry.
“Ian Fitzgibbon is separate towards all others charged, in that there is no evidence to suggest at all that Ian Fitzgibbon would do the beckon call of Mr Barry, which is the prosecution's case. That’s the prosecution's case. If you take the prosecution's case that Mr Barry is a person with whom organisers and those involved did the beckon call to, you have clear blue water between Ian Fitzgibbon and the rest of the dock, because Ian Fitzgibbon does not do the beckon call of Mr Barry. We know this because of the words of Ms Dale.
Message June 23, Ashley Dale to Olivia McDowell, responding to a message in which she is told Ian Fitzgibbon is coming to Glastonbury: “Yeyy fab see you soon.”
Mr Cooper added: “Ms Dale is pleased that Ian Fitzgibbon and his girlfriend are going to join them. No beef. No feud. If there was a feud between Ian Fitzgibbon and Lee Harrison, Ms Dale very sadly would know about it.
“The prosecution rely upon the words of Ms Dale as evidence against the defence. You have been referred to her words, poignant. Well if the prosecution say you can rely on Ms Dale’s words in that way to support their case, so to can you rely on Ms Dale’s words in the same way if they support Ian Fitzgibbon's case. The prosecution can’t have it both ways. They can’t say here we’re referring to Ms Dale’s words and you should take them as a directive of your thoughts, then what she says about Ian Fitzgibbon and Daisy you should doubts.
“The important thing here is that when there is a dispute between Ian Fitzgibbon and Mr Barry, you can take it that Ian Fitzgibbon is telling the truth. There is no evidence of any agenda that Ian Fitzgibbon had at all. He was at Glastonbury with his girlfriend. The suggestion of an agenda is simply plucked out of the air without any evidential foundation whatsoever. Throughout this trial, lots of suggestions, lots of innuendos, lots of guesswork. Pitifully little evidence.”

11:09OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'Being called a grass is not a good thing'​

Mr Cooper contunues: “The crux of this is that Mr Fitzgibbon has told you on oath that Mr Barry came up to him at Glastonbury and said have you seen Lee Harrison, showed Mr Fitzgibbon a knife, and says if you see Saz tell him I’m going to stab him up. You heard what Mr Barry said about that, he didn’t show a knife and say those words directly to Ian Fitzgibbon. Ian Fitzgibbon said no, I’m not going to follow the script on this. I’m going to tell the jury the truth. You’re going to have to decide who you believe.
“If you believe Ian Fitzgibbon, it does give you some direction you’re dealing with a witness telling the truth without fear nor favour. Mr Barry says no I didn’t show the knife, no I didn’t speak to Ian Fitzgibbon. Let’s look at the evidence to assist you that Ian Fitzgibbon is a witness of truth. Perhaps at grave risk to himself. Being called a grass is not a good thing. Also to establish the relationship Ian Fitzgibbon had with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale at this time, going back to the central point. It goes right to the heart of our submissions. Ian Fitzgibbon is not just a man with no axe to grind, he is a man who is friends with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale. It is incredulous that the change should take place.
“Is he telling the truth? When Mr Fitzgibbon was telling you about seeing the knife, withdrawn from Mr Barry’s trousers or pocket, you may have noticed Mr Fitzgibbon was standing, thinking it through and visualising it as he showed you. A witness of truth thinking carefully about what he saw. He told you he saw it near the stage, by the wire fencing. He was very detailed in what happened and what he saw. He is not prepared to lie as far as Mr Barry is called and is not prepared to help the prosecution if it’s a lie. The prosecution saw him photographs of a knife. How easy would it have been if Ian Fitzgibbon was putting the boot in for Ian Fitzgibbon to agree with the prosecution and say, that’s the knife.
"A lying witness would do that. It’s an easy thing to do. Mr greaney is going to be pleased with the answer. Mr Fitzgibbon says no I can’t be sure that is the knife I saw. I can’t be sure that is the knife I saw. Does that not tell you, there is a witness trying to give the right evidence. Not, oh yeah, that’s the knife. No, said Fitzgibbon. I’m not sure that is the knife I saw. Mr Fitzgibbon is a witness of truth. If you think he is a witness of truth or might be a witness of truth, this helps you on whether you can rely on him as a credible witness. He might not be giving the answers the prosecution want, but he is giving truthful answers. If you are of the view he might be truthful here, you also are driven to the conclusion he might be truthful throughout his evidence.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

If any of these guys aren’t convicted as a result of this trial, will they be prosecuted for drug dealing?

I'm 99% sure that Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz they have already been convicted for their drug dealing in a trial that took place after they were charged with murder but before the Ashley trial.

 

[Legally Bland]

11:09OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'Being called a grass is not a good thing'​

Mr Cooper contunues: “The crux of this is that Mr Fitzgibbon has told you on oath that Mr Barry came up to him at Glastonbury and said have you seen Lee Harrison, showed Mr Fitzgibbon a knife, and says if you see Saz tell him I’m going to stab him up. You heard what Mr Barry said about that, he didn’t show a knife and say those words directly to Ian Fitzgibbon. Ian Fitzgibbon said no, I’m not going to follow the script on this. I’m going to tell the jury the truth. You’re going to have to decide who you believe.
“If you believe Ian Fitzgibbon, it does give you some direction you’re dealing with a witness telling the truth without fear nor favour. Mr Barry says no I didn’t show the knife, no I didn’t speak to Ian Fitzgibbon. Let’s look at the evidence to assist you that Ian Fitzgibbon is a witness of truth. Perhaps at grave risk to himself. Being called a grass is not a good thing. Also to establish the relationship Ian Fitzgibbon had with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale at this time, going back to the central point. It goes right to the heart of our submissions. Ian Fitzgibbon is not just a man with no axe to grind, he is a man who is friends with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale. It is incredulous that the change should take place.
“Is he telling the truth? When Mr Fitzgibbon was telling you about seeing the knife, withdrawn from Mr Barry’s trousers or pocket, you may have noticed Mr Fitzgibbon was standing, thinking it through and visualising it as he showed you. A witness of truth thinking carefully about what he saw. He told you he saw it near the stage, by the wire fencing. He was very detailed in what happened and what he saw. He is not prepared to lie as far as Mr Barry is called and is not prepared to help the prosecution if it’s a lie. The prosecution saw him photographs of a knife. How easy would it have been if Ian Fitzgibbon was putting the boot in for Ian Fitzgibbon to agree with the prosecution and say, that’s the knife.
"A lying witness would do that. It’s an easy thing to do. Mr greaney is going to be pleased with the answer. Mr Fitzgibbon says no I can’t be sure that is the knife I saw. I can’t be sure that is the knife I saw. Does that not tell you, there is a witness trying to give the right evidence. Not, oh yeah, that’s the knife. No, said Fitzgibbon. I’m not sure that is the knife I saw. Mr Fitzgibbon is a witness of truth. If you think he is a witness of truth or might be a witness of truth, this helps you on whether you can rely on him as a credible witness. He might not be giving the answers the prosecution want, but he is giving truthful answers. If you are of the view he might be truthful here, you also are driven to the conclusion he might be truthful throughout his evidence.”

11:17OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'Clear and supportive evidence of concern' from Ian Fitzgibbon to Lee Harrison​

Mr Cooper refers to messages between Ashley and Ian Fitzgibbon's sister Claudia in which Ms Dale gives her number to be passed on to the defendant at Glastonbury.
He tells the jury: “Here you have Ms Dale giving her phone number to someone she knows will give it to Ian Fitzgibbon. What does that tell you about the relationship, the friendship, the trust that existed between Ms Dale and Ian Fitzgibbon. Look at the vibes of it. Of the communications between Mr Fitzgibbon and Ms Dale and Mr Harrison. Doesn’t it feel and sound very different from others communications you deal with in this case. There is a very big difference between the interaction and dynamics between Ian Fitzgibbon, Lee Harrison and Ms Dale that make Ian Fitzgibbon stand out as being different when it comes to a consideration of this trial.”
There then followed WhatsApp messages between Ian Fitzgibbon and Ms Dale’s phone, supposedly used by Lee Harrison, “trying to arrange a meet” in the festival.
Mr Cooper next refers to one of Ashley Dale’s voice notes in which she says: “Obviously on the weekend, when they’re in the same fezzy, and he’s saying ‘Where’s Saz? I’m gonna stab him up’ to your Ian.”
JC adds: “There is clear supportive evidence of the concern and communication that Ian Fitzgibbon had to make sure Lee Harrison knew that he was at risk from Niall Barry. All this beyond any doubt in our submission shows that Ian Fitzgibbon is telling you the truth about what happened about him and Mr Barry at Glastonbury. Backed up, again, by the words of Ms Dale.”
Text message from Ashley Dale refers to Barry “pulling out a big knife to Ian Fitzgibbon and saying where’s Saz he’s getting stabbed up.”
JC: “Perfectly supportive of what Mr Fitzgibbon says. Mr Barry says all this is wrong. He didn’t pull out a knife and say the words are suggested he did say, that Saz was going to be stabbed up by him. There is Ms Dale repeating what she was told. Supportive of the truth and credibility of an Fitzgibbon.
Another message in which Ashley Dale reports that Barry was “taking the p*** out of Lee and found it all off Ian”
JC: “Ian Fitzgibbon informing Lee Harrison things were going on which he would need to be aware of. All of these communications indicate the truth and honesty of Ian Fitzgibbon and how separate he is of the general group in this particular matter.

11:20OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Ian Fitzgibbon 'no angel'​

Mr Cooper continues: “He has volunteered to you his previous convictions. He is no angel. That is not an unusual thing in the criminal courts. It doesn’t mean every time the police arrest you, you’ve done it. But it’s right that you know. There is no violence conviction against Ian Fitzgibbon at all. You know the community in which he mixes. You know the world he’s told you about, drugs. Ample opportunity if Ian Fitzgibbon was that type of person to commit violence, to have been called for it an punished. He’s not even been swept into it. Where there is little positive credit to be argued, is it possible for you to give him a little credit for not getting involved in violence.
“It goes further than that. When you consider the prosecution's case theory that in two months, this man became the killer he became, he has no record of violence. It is not in him. You’ll look at those previous convictions. You’ll consider what he said.
“I’m not supporting drug dealing. It is abhorrent. I’m not asking you to even like Ian Fitzgibbon. that’s not necessary. I don’t have to like him. We’re not here to like Ian Fitzgibbon. You’re not here to like him. You’re here to analyse the evidence. The previous convictions assist you. All his previous convictions he’s pleaded guilty to. Every single one of them. On the few occasions he’s been before the court, he’s pleaded guilty.
"You know all there is to know in his interactions with the criminal justice system. There is no mystery. Nothing that you don’t know about him. We wanted that to be the case. It was our decision on his behalf to let you know. He needn’t have done so. He wasn’t forced to produce his previous convictions. The prosecution couldn’t have cross examined him on his previous convictions. You found out purely and utterly because we decided to tell you. We have nothing to hide. We want you to know Ian Fitzgibbon. We argue it helps you to work out the sort of man that you are dealing with. All about him.
“Yes he was carrying a knife at Glastonbury. Yes he did suggest to Lee Harrison that knife was there if he needed to defendant himself. He told you why he carried a knife. He had a scar on his head from a knife attack previously. He confronted someone who attacked his sister. He has got the scar on his head to prove it, and thefereore carried a knife. I’m not condoning that, I’m not saying it’s right. When you consider Ian Fitzgibbon, you have an idea of the real world he lives in. his experiences. And to a degree he has kept himself out of the criminal courts in relation to violence.”

11:29OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'Why did Fitzgibbon leave?'​

JC: “The crown’s case is he is an organiser keeping careful watch on the progress of these killers, the progress of the foot soldiers, to see what was going on.
“The reason they say why Witham and Peers returned to Pilch Lane after the killing was to update the organisers about what had happened. This is the crown’s case. To update the organisers about what had happened. That’s the prosecution's case. There’s a trend here isn’t there? It’s quite rare a defendant advocate is standing in front of you and using the prosecution's words to support the defendant's case. What does that tell you about the strength of the prosecution's case, when we’re saying yes we agree.
“If they are right that Mr Witham and Mr Peers returned to Pilch Lane after the killing to update the organisers, one assumes the organisers will be waiting for that update on the prosecution's case. You’re ahead of me aren’t you? I can see some of you nodding. Fitzgibbon had gone. Fitzgibbon had left. Fitzgibbon wasn’t hanging around to be updated. On the crown’s case, clearly not an organiser. Because on their case Witham and Peers were returning to update the organisers, not the organisers minus Ian Fitzgibbon, who left and was home by 1 o’clock.
“The crown side step, don’t they? If Ian Fitzgibbon was the organiser they suggest, the monitor they suggest, on such a serious and deadly enterprise, why does he leave? Furthermore, it’s not just that, if he was part of the organisation, when Witham and Peers come back on the crown’s case why don’t they contact him and say where are you? Where have you gone? Nothing to suggest he was required to be updated, nothing to suggest there was any concern or worry when he’d gone, no contact from the others to say where are you? No evidence to suggest that as Mr Fitzgibbon was leaving any of the others in the flat said wait a minute mate.
“Witham and Peers have just committed a very serious offence. They’ve gone out to kill Lee Harrison where are you going? Fitzgibbon said I’m going home now. That’s the prosecution's case. They have no answer to it. When I repeat it like that to you in real language, not law book language, real words, the crime the crown suggest has just been committed, and Ian Fitzgibbon knew the crime was about to be committed, Lee Harrison was going to be slain and anyone else that witnessed it would be killed. Then he just leaves. Not waiting to be updated, how it happened. That’s the crown’s case. Witham and Peers return to update the organisers. If they did, Mr Fitzgibbon clearly wasn’t an organiser. It doesn’t make sense. Where are you going? I’m going home now. You’ll come to your own views on that.
“One thing for sure, Mr Fitzgibbon is not interested one way or the other what happened. Mainly because he didn’t know what was going on. Ian Fitzgibbon left Pilch Lane at 00.45. Peers and Witham didn’t arrive back until 45 minutes later, at 1.25. Mr Fitzgibbon was at his home. He was home. Possibly in bed, by the time Witham and Peers arrived back. He doesn’t even, and they don’t even, try to contact him to see where he’s gone, to get an update. Nothing.
“The first Mr Fitzgibbon knows about the tragedy of Ms Dale is when Claudia tells him the following morning.”

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/ashley-dale-murder-trial-live-27823763

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I think defence is doing a good job for IF so far today.

ETA - saying IF wasn’t going along with the “script” etc is a bold move, and again not putting the others in a good light,

 

[Legal]

I think the closing for IF and Witham should definitely finish today, at the very very latest tomorrow. Do we think we will have verdicts for the end of the week?

 

[bobbymkii]

I think the closing for IF and Witham should definitely finish today, at the very very latest tomorrow. Do we think we will have verdicts for the end of the week?

We've got Summing up to do as well so might be a push to get done by the end of the week. I think it'll take them at least a few days to agree on a couple of the defendants. Obviously Witham is doomed his conviction is almost in directed verdict territory, but the others - I think it might take a bit longer to decide.

 

[Legally Bland]

11:34OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'All communications associated with Ian Fitzgibbon on personal phone'​

JC: “Look very carefully at the communications. All the communications associated with Ian Fitzgibbon are on his own personal phone. No special, secret phone. On his own phone. All of the communications that were achieved or not achieved were during the currency of the fight, the boxing game.
“22.18. Where are you, are you coming back? I thought you were interested in the boxing? 22.23. Witham to Mr Fitzgibbon. 22.23. Again, you see it there. Mr Witham again, 22.23. 23.06, one second. 23.06, one second. 23.07, one second. All of these effectively during the lead up or actual boxing.
“Does this look like a man centrally engaged with the organisation and monitoring of the actions of the so called foot soldiers? It’s not much, at the very least. It’s all during the currency of the boxing. Those are the communications on which the crown on the night suggest that Fitzgibbon is monitoring and organising. That is significant evidence to support the case of Ian Fitzgibbon. Organising and monitoring on the night. There you have it.
“What else then are the crown pushed upon? The feud. The sudden conversion on the road to Damascus in two months. The communications, an organiser. We submit none of these things pass muster.
“What’s the next thing? Lets go to the funeral of Rikki Warnick at Ten Streets. Lets try and construe what Ashley Dale is saying about things that happened there, to put a magnifying glass on Ian Fitzgibbon as if he was the only person there. There were over 100 people at this wake, including the defendant's Mr Fitzgibbon’s sister. Mr McCaig, Mr Witham, Mr Peers, Mr Barry. What the crown say happen there is complete and utter speculation. You have been addressed on whether Ian Fitzgibbon was there when a firearm had been discharged.
"There’s nothing in what you’ve been told to suggest others weren’t there as well. Look carefully at what Ms Dale says. She’s not saying they were there alone on their own. There were others there, groups there. It was something that happened. Whether Ian Fitzgibbon was there or not, it would be wrong to interpret that he was there on his own with another. There’s nothing to suggest there weren’t a whole lot of people there when that happened. The prosecution take a magnifying glass to him, magnifying what he’s doing. We all know if you take a mag glass away, suddenly the picture gets wider. They’re magnifying in on Ian Fitzgibbon, ignoring what’s going on around and about him. There are over 100 people at this wake. The rest is speculation."

11:42OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Fitzgibbon was 'at home, smoking weed'​

Mr Cooper tells the jury: “There’s no evidence that Mr Fitzgibbon was involved in any way with the purchase of the Hyundai because he wasn’t at all involved in that. There is no evidence Ian Fitzgibbon was involved in the activities in Wales. Ian Fitzgibbon is at home, smoking weed, nowhere near Wales.
“When you come to consider issues relating to the Hyundai and Wales and the Kyle Line, that’s a totally different set of evidence that may or may not relate to other defendants. It certainly does not have any relevance whatsoever as far as Ian Fitzgibbon is concerned.
“The more I go on, the more this funnel narrows and narrows and narrows. The prosecution are churning evidence into the top wide part of this funnel. Shovel the evidence into the funnel. Right at the end comes a drip of liquid that’s come through the filter, come through the gauze. That’s the prosection's case against Ian Fitzgibbon, shovel it in the funnel and see what comes out the other end. What comes out is nothing more than a little drip of distilled water. It’s that little drip that I’m spending this time with you on. I make no apologies for strongly urging upon you the lack of evidence here. What do we get? Speculation."


11:52OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Evidence of Dubai​

JC continues: “We go on to picking sides. He didn’t pick sides. He had friends on both sides. Liv says to Ms Dale, you’ll have to pick sides. Well you don’t, and Ian Fitzgibbon didn’t. Maybe he did stand in the middle. Either way, whether he picked sides or not, he was certainly not on the side of any feud Mr Barry or others may have had.
“I want to now touch upon the final strand of evidence as far as Me Fitzgibbon is concerned, the evidence afterwards. Dubai. There’s one very important piece of evidence the prosecution just can’t deal with. They haven’t touched upon it. It really is the key which unlocks the case as far as Ian Fitzgibbon is concerned. We submit all the other matters do, but this is the rather revealing thing. It deals with Ian Fitzgibbon’s state of knowledge.
“On the crown’s case, he’s the organiser, he’s the motivator, he knows what’s going to be going on before it happens. He is right there, knowing what’s going on. Knowing Lee Harrison is going to be killed, they hope, and all witnesses. Fitzgibbon knows it, and is central to it, and is the organiser of it, and Fitzgibbon knows what has happened that night, or expects it to have happened.
“If he did, why doesn’t he book a flight to Dubai that night, that morning, the following morning at least. Why is it that when he books the flight to Dubai, it is one hour after Zeisz and Barry visit him the following morning. Ian Fitzgibbon, through his sister, allegedly, books the flight to Dubai an hour after or so he has conversations with Zeisz and Barry the following day. Now after that, and on the morning he’s first told by Claudia, that Ashley has been shot. That is so important as a key opener in this case as far as Ian Fitzgibbon is concerned. If he had known or suspected, and if he would have done on the crown’s case, what happened that night, that flight to Dubai wouldn’t have been booked the following day. It would have been booked that night. It wasn’t booked because Ian Fitzgibbon didn’t know the tragedy that had occured that night. It blasts open the prosecution's case, which was already on shaky hinges, to nothing.
“Central to the prosecution's case is that Ian Fitzgibbon was an organiser, was a monitor, knew what was going on and was going be reported back to by Witham and Peers. he did not know what had happened until Claudia had told him that morning, and particularly until Mr Barry and Mr Zeisz had visited him at his home. Mr Barry said they’re going to be knocking on your door. This is a vital piece of evidence. The flight is booked on August 21 at 13.28. Please note that time. This is critical. 13.28. You know on the undisputed evidence that Mr Barry and Mr Zeisz visited Mr Fitzgibbon’s home between 11.30 and 12.30 that morning. This flight was booked within an hour of that visit.
“You might have wondered why I was keep to develop the window of the visit of Mr Zeisz and Mr Barry to Mr Fitzgibbon. This is why. This is why. Because Dubai is booked barely an hour later. You couldn’t write it in some sort of crime film. Why on earth is Mr Fitzgibbon booking a flight to Dubai then? Because it’s only then that he knew what had gone on. He wasn’t reported back to. He wasn’t an organiser. He didn’t know what had happened. Otherwise that flight wouldn’t have been booked an hour after Mr Zeisz and Barry put the details on what Claudia Fitzgibbon told him that morning. Yes he panicked. He was afraid he’s get drawn into something he wasn’t involved in. he was afraid he wouldn’t be believed, because he’s been with these people. He only knew the majority through Mr Zeisz. He hardly knew Mr Barry. He only really got to know Mr Barry over the few months before this happened.
“Mr Fitzgibbon is afraid he’s going to be drawn into something, as he has been. Worried he might be called about a grass. Worried about his mother and sisters. And fled, like he said, like a coward. A fearful coward. He fled.
“I ask you to take from Dubai those two critical pieces of interpretation. The booking of the flight shows beyond any doubt whatsoever an hour after seeing Mr Zeisz and Mr Barry. it’s the first time he knew the enormity of what happens. The crown’s case complete evaporates into that tube. He panicked and he fled. For the crown to desperately show a photograph of him in a posh hotel. What the relevance of that was. It’s the birthday of his sister in Dubai, that’s all the prosecution know.
"Fitzgibbon isn’t even smiling on it. Are the crown really reduced to that. Putting to you a snapcshot on August 27. What is relevant we submit is the utter depertation of the prosecution. They think they need to show you that photograph at a posh restaurant, as if that is going to twang your emotion. That he can have a meal at a posh restaurant. You might think you need more respect than that. It doesn’t help you in the slightest. It only helps you by indicating the prosecution complete and utter desperation.
“The enormity of what was happening dawned upon him as Mr Barry and Mr Zeisz spoke to him.”

11:55OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'The crime was a tragic, appalling crime'​

Mr Cooper concludes his speech by saying: “This is a serious matter. It’s a serious matter for Mr Fitzgibbon, but just as much so it’s a serious matter for those who tragically lost Ashley. The crime was a tragic, appalling crime. The guilty people should be convicted. But those where the crown have not proved the case against them or got nowhere near, it’s just as much justice for Ms Dale that they are acquitted. The justice in this case for Ms Dale and the community is that those who commit this offence are found guilty. But it is just as much justice for Ms Dale that those who did not are acquitted. We ask you, on the analysis we will undertake, to find that Ian Fitzgibbon is not guilty on all of these counts.”
Mr Cooper thanks the jury.
Justice Goose calls for a break, and asks the jury to return at 12pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:10KEY EVENT

Defence closing speech for Witham​

The court is reconvened, and Richard Pratt KC will now deliver his speech on behalf of James Witham.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

12:10KEY EVENT

Defence closing speech for Witham​

The court is reconvened, and Richard Pratt KC will now deliver his speech on behalf of James Witham.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Yeah, good luck with that Mr Pratt! What does he even say?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yeah, good luck with that Mr Pratt! What does he even say?

Def short straw situation IMO!

 

[Legally Bland]

12:23OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'What really happened in Leinster Road'​

Mr Pratt rises and says: “On behalf of James Witham, we ask no more nor less than this. You do what you promised to do at the beginning of this trial. To try his case fairly and according to the evidence. That, we recognise, may be easier said than done. Because he has admitted even on his own account dreadful conduct which brought about the death of a young aspirational woman in her own home, causing very great bereavement to those who knew and loved her.
“He has told you he did what he did against a background of his dealing in class A drugs. Even though he may be portrayed as a fall guy, you will have no sympathy for him at all and we recognise that. I’m not here to ask you for sympathy. I’m asking you to do your duty as jurors and try the case on the evidence.
“You will have to distinguish between what is truly evidence and what is theory. I am going to talk about what really happened in 40 Leinster Road. There was of course no witness or camera to visually record what happened in the early hours of August 21 when James Witham burst through the front door.
“The prosecution case or theory is that he pursued Ashley as she sought to escape from the front living room through the kitchen, out of the back door. The prosecution say he took aim and deliberately shot her, knowing the inevitable consequence would be at least serious harm and likely death. They say that was not enough, because the principal plan was to shoot and kill Lee Harrison. So it is said James Witham then went upstairs and fired five shots into an empty room. That was said to be a message to Lee Harrison, that in fact he and not Ashley Dale had been the principal target.
“That is the theory. You may think it is inherently questionable. Surely if the prosecution are right to say this was a deliberate execution of Ashley Dale, what more powerful or grotesque message could be sent to Lee Harrison than that. There has been no suggestion that Ashley Dale played any part in Lee Harrison’s criminality. Lee Harrison would surely have known and appreciated that the shooting of Ashley was something aimed at him.
“How can it be said that causing further damage to the plasterwork in what was effectively a store room sent out any message at all? That is why we suggest the prosecution theory as to what happened in 40 Leinster Road is to say the least entirely questionable.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[chimpface]

I'm 99% sure that Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz they have already been convicted for their drug dealing in a trial that took place after they were charged with murder but before the Ashley trial.

Barry is definitely inside for firearm related offences, I think Zeisz is too.

 

[Legally Bland]

12:28OLIVIA WILLIAMS

'This is not a memory game'​

Mr Pratt continues; “Surprisingly it wasn’t just the prosecution advocate who advanced a theory. The ballistics expert joined in also with some theories of his own. His role was to give you independent expert on ballistics and scientific findings. Whether Ashley Dale emerged from the living room or where she was immediately prior to the shooting is something he cannot say from an expert standpoint.
"You can draw some conclusions, but be careful about them. The television was on in the living room, but people do not necessarily turn off the television off when they walk out of a room. Could she have been looking after her dog at the time? We simply do not know where she was immediately before James Witham entered the house. That is part of the challenge you face, to separate theory and speculation from what is actually evidence. Evidence is capable of proving something. Theory and speculation is not. If you concentrate on the evidence, you will be able to ask if it is appropriate to you can draw sure conclusions from it. If you cannot, then you will not be able to make the necessary findings which form the building blocks of this prosecustion case.
“What we intend to do in this address to you is to invite you to look carefully at the evidence. There wasn’t a witness apart from James Witham who was able to give evidence as to the events inside 40 Leinster Road. Although no witnesses saw what happened inside, that is not to say that there were no witnesses to the events. You know that there were.
“Those were the neighbours who may not have seen very much happening in Leinster Road with their eyes, but they heard things. What they heard is very significant indeed, we suggest. You may recall it was at an early stage. Four residents of Leinster Road came to court to give evidence about what they had heard. Each of those women were, you may think, plainly nervous at the prospect of giving evidence in a trial about events which took place in their neighbourhood. You may think they were public spirited women who may have preferred not to give evidence in this trial. You may think they did their level best to assist you in your task.
“It will have been difficult for you to appreciate the significance and nuances of what they were saying. They were prosecution witnesses. But not a single one of them got so much as a mention in Mr Greaney’s powerful and detailed closing address to you. Mr Greaney is not invited to remind you of all of the evidence, but you may have thought the omission of any reference to the evidence of the neighbours is surprising apart from a suggestion that neighbours had heard Ashely Dale shout “get the f*** out”. That’s not entirely accurate. Only one of the witnesses heard those words.
“But this is not a memory game. I intend to remind you, and I intend to remind the prosecution, about some of the important things those witnesses said to you and the important impact their evidence should have on your interpretation of what really happened in 40 Leinster Road.”

12:31OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Witnesses evidence​

The witnesses Mr Pratt refers to cannot be named for legal reasons.
One who lived on the opposite side of the street described hearing a “loud bang” which she initially thought was a firework, he says.
He says: “She said she stayed in bed. The next thing she heard was a scream. After the bang, the scream was in seconds. It sounded like the scream was in the street. It was a loud scream which founded like a female. She heard another scream, not as loud as the first. A minute or two later, she heard car doors slamming. After that, the car door was speeding away. After she heard the scream, she heard no more loud bangs. The next thing she heard was the slamming of car doors.”
Another, Mr Pratt says, had gone to bed at around 11.30pm and “heard banging which she thought was someone closing a wheelie bin” at around 12.30pm.
“She said she was between sleep and wakefulness. She told you the bedroom was at the front of her house, the windows were closed. She again repeated that she heard that banging noise which sounded like a wheelie bin. Then she heard another two bangs, different to the sound of that first bang. She said it sounded like a gunshot or a firework. Then she said, having heard those two bangs, then she heard a scream. It was the scream that made her go to the window. As she went to the window, she said she saw a vehicle.
“Those two witnesses, from the other side of the road, expressed themselves in different ways. One thing is common to both of their recollections. On one thing, you may think, they were absolutely clear. It was only after they heard the bangs that they heard the sound of a scream or screams. It may be that what she thought was the sound of a wheelie bin being closed was the sound of the door going in.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:57OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Witness evidence continues​

Another neighbour reported that she was in her dining room at the time of the incident, “painting, doing artwork” and with music on.
Mr Pratt says: “She said I heard a massive crash. I turned my music off. She described the crash she heard as a metallic crash, and it was very loud. Then it was very quiet and echoey. It struck me as unusual. She said it was short. She said she got up and went to her backdoor to see if she could find out what the source was. Then she thought she heard someone say help me, help me. She said that was directly after the crash it sounded to her like it was a young female.
“She said she went to the back door and didn't see anything else. She said everything appeared to her that the noise was coming from outside. She heard what she heard through her open back door. The cry was very soon after I heard the big bang. She heard only one metallic sound. She thought it came from the rear of her house, from the direction of 40 Leinster Road. Once again, the scream came after and not before that metallic sound which you may logically think must have been the sound of the forearm being discharged. The cry, help me, is very soon afterwards."
Mr Pratt then turns to the fourth neighbour “finally and most significantly”.
He says: “She said at about 12.30 I was in my house in my bed. She said heard a loud drilling noise, like a hand drill. I formed the view it was coming from next door. I paused my TV and heard another drilling noise. After the first noise ending and the second starting, she thought it was around five seconds. The second drilling nose she said was as loud, the same as the first. Both lasted about two to three seconds. She said she heard something afterwards. She heard this after the second drilling noise. Two seconds after that second drilling noise, she said I heard a girl scream and then scream again. The second was in the form of a shout. Get the f*** out. It seemed to be a really loud shout. After the first scream, the second scream of 'get the f*** out' was straight after. The first scream after the drilling noise was about three seconds, then she hears the scream of 'get the f*** out'. She says I didn't hear anything else until the police arrived.
“I suggested to her that the whole episode looked like it had lasted around 15 seconds. She said the first drilling sound was about two to three seconds, a gap of five seconds and then a drilling sound, then the screams. She hadn’t heard anything before the first drilling sound or after the second scream. That was after the two episodes of what she had taken to be drilling sounds.
“Her description of hearing two episodes of the drilling sounds turned out, we suggest, to be very significant evidence when Mr Horne, the ballistics expert, gave evidence. For completeness, I remind you of a short extract of the 999 call from another neighbour. What he said, I’ve just recently heard a loud sound in the back. I don't know what it was that alerted me. I went outside and could hear someone groaning. He described seeing Ashley Dale in the backyard. Again, hears a loud nose. By the time he goes out, Ashley had already been sadly fatally wounded.
“You will make allowance for these witnesses hearing things in a short space of time when they were unexpected. But there is a consistency in their accounts. All of the witnesses say the first time they hear any sort of scream or shout is after the sound of a loud noise you may think is inevitably the sound of gunfire. It follows that the first time Ashley Dale reacts at all to the presence of James Witham in her home is after those witnesses have heard the gunshots. After (neighbour) has heard the second drilling sound. After Ashley had been shot.
“You know from the pathologist, he would not have expected Ashley Dale to be immediately incapacitated and capable of screaming or shouting after she had been shot. If all of that is right and that evidence is correct, where does it leave the prosecution theory that Ashley Dale confronted and shouted at James Witham as he entered the property. You may recollect when Joseph Peers was giving evidence and beng cross examined by Mr Greaney, Mr Peers denied being there at all. He said did you hear Ashley Dale 'get the f*** out'. That on the evidence of the neighbours is not the way it happened. She shouted that after she had been shot.
“The next significant conclusion we say you should draw was the firing of the shot that hit Ashley was one of the last things that happened in this. She asked for help almost immediately after the second burst of shots. Where does that leave the prosecution and its theory, that having shot and wounded Ashley Dale, James Witham then and only then went upstairs and fred another flurry of shots into that bedroom.
“The simple answer we say is that the theory is contradicted by the evidence. It’s incompatible with the evidence. The explanation we say is James Witham did exactly as he told you, go upstairs first. Given the whole prosecution theory is that he went there with the intention to kill Lee Harrison and anyone else who got in the way, you may want to ask why didn’t he carry out a full search of the property to find if Lee Harrison was in the property."

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

13:12OLIVIA WILLIAMS

James Witham's foot marks​

Mr Pratt continues: “You will hear that marks from James Witham’s footwear were left on the door in the hallway and inside the dining room. You have the location of those two footprints. What they tell you is the footprint on the front door was a footmark made as he was exiting the house. There is also a footprint just inside the dining room. We also know there are cartridges as well. But there are no footprints in that front living room. No footprints either in the kitchen.
“If we look upstairs, this is the footprint evidence from upstairs. There are no footprints in that front bedroom, the one that looks over and onto Leinster Road. You know from the evidence of the police officer that when they arrived on the scene the television in the front living room was still switched on. You know there was a sidelight on as well. Why, if James Witham has gone into that house looking for Lee Harrison, is there no evidence that he entered and left a footprint in that downstairs living room. Furthermore, upstars. You will recollect the front bedroom, which also had a side light in it, and the bedroom used by Ashley Dale and Lee Harrison. Once again, there is no evidence of any footprint to suggest James Witham went into that room either.
“What about the discharged cartridges? You can see there are no discarded cartridges in the living room. You were told you have to be careful. You can’t be sure cartridges remained in the position they fell. There was the possibility foot traffic could carry them from one room to the other. What is absolutely clear is there are none in the living room, a room which when the police arrived had a side light on, had a television. If you were going to shoot and kill Lee Harrison, would you not have looked and fired some shots into that room?
“Upstairs, all the damage, all the discarded shot cartridges were confined into that rear bedroom. No evidence whatsoever, even though it was the front and master bedroom, no evidence of any bedroom at all. Either by footprints or ballistic evidence. The only safe conclusion you can draw from the absence of that evidence is that either James Witham did not go into either room or at the very least there is no evidence that he did.
"I ask the question rhetorically. Why not? If he has gone to 40 Leinster Road in the expectation that he will find Lee Harrison there, if he doesn't apparently look for him. There is an answer. It may not be a particularly appealing answer, but the answer we suggest is that the evidence when you piece it together simply doesn’t support the theory that seeking out Lee Harrison and killing hm was on James Witham’s agenda and still less was it his intention to cause any injury at all to Ashley Dale.
“His intention we say is fully explained by the evidence, if as he says he went to damage the property and not injure or kill people. He wanted to damage the property in a deranged thought process to send out a message. Very tragically, in so doing, one of those shots discharged in less than a second entered the body of Ashely Dale with the most awful consequences."

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

13:16OLIVIA WILLIAMS

Gunshots 'really is that quick'​

Mr Pratt says: “Mr Horne entered into some theory making of his own to support the prosecution case. But what does his evidence really tell you? You will remember by the end of my cross examination, Mr Horne ultimately agreed that from a ballistics point of view that on the ev he could not exclude the possibility that the gunman was not aiming shots not at a human target but at the structure and building of the house. That was not an idle concession on his part.
“Initially, when he was being asked by Mr Greaney, he said the fact these shots were fired in the same direction tends to favour the proposition they were fired at a target as opposed to just random. Then, when I was asking him questions, I asked whether it was possible to tell whether the weapon was in full automatic mode. He said he would have expected the damage to be grouped closer together. He thought the gun was in semi automatic mode. I asked him, had he been told what had been described by the neighbours. I told him one of the witnesses, the closest to 40 Leinster Road, described hearing two separate drilling sounds. He said it’s difficult for me to judge, possibly yes. But then he said this. In semi automatic mode, someone close enough would have heard 14 shots. I would expect them to discriminate between those shots.
“But if two drilling sounds were heard, would that not be indicative of the gun being in automatic mode. He said, I agree. In that vivid description she gave, you are now able to understand and conclude that when shots are fired they are shot at a time when the weapon was in automatic mode. We will consider in a moment what the implications of that are.
“I asked him about the shots upstairs. I asked can you exclude the possibility the shooter was shooting at a building rather than a target. He said no I cannot. He confirmed there was no evidence of any shots being fired in the front bedroom. He agreed there was no evidennce of the gunman going into the front bedroom. I continued with the factual scenario I was putting to him. After that episode upstairs, the gunman comes downstairs and fires a spray of shots intended to shoot at the building. He said I cannot exclude that.
“You will remember that once you know that this is a weapon that discharges 15 shots a second, it doesn’t take the most demanding form of mental arithmetic to work out how long it takes to discharge five shots upstairs and nine shots downstairs. Not even a second. It really is that quick.”
The court will now break for dinner, resuming at 2pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

I think defence is doing a good job for IF so far today.

ETA - saying IF wasn’t going along with the “script” etc is a bold move, and again not putting the others in a good light,

I think John Cooper is excellent - am always impressed by his defence.

 

[Alyce]

I think the closing for IF and Witham should definitely finish today, at the very very latest tomorrow. Do we think we will have verdicts for the end of the week?

If Judge gets the Jury out today - even if only for the last half hour, to at least pick a Foreperson, then I think we should have at least some verdicts by Friday. But, as Bobby said, there's quite a few to get through. I hope someone on the Jury has a spread sheet of all the nicknames.

I was wondering if Judge Goose might take whichever verdicts have been decided by end of week - but on balance he will probably wait until they are finished with all 6.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

If Judge gets the Jury out today - even if only for the last half hour, to at least pick a Foreperson, then I think we should have at least some verdicts by Friday. But, as Bobby said, there's quite a few to get through. I hope someone on the Jury has a spread sheet of all the nicknames.

I was wondering if Judge Goose might take whichever verdicts have been decided by end of week - but on balance he will probably wait until they are finished with all 6.

I wondered if they might bring back the verdict for JW first, and then depending if that’s murder or not, the others would continue?

 

[Legally Bland]

14:06PATRICK EDRICH

Case resumes​

Justice Goose re-enters and calls for the jury.
Mr Pratt will resume his address.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk