GUILTY UK - Brianna Ghey, 16, murdered in Culcheth Linear Park, Feb 2023 *2 teenagers charged*

[Lubilu]

DH: “You told us you started to share your fantasy about killing and torture. When you shared that fantasy with Boy Y, did your fantasy become a fantasy of you and Boy Y torturing and killing someone together?”

X: “Yes.”

DH: “You enjoyed the idea of both of you killing someone together?”

X: “Yes.”

DH: “What was it you enjoyed about the idea of killing someone?”

X: “I’m not exactly sure, I just found the overall thing quite interesting I guess.”

DH: “Did you like the idea of having power over someone in that way?”

X: “Yes.”

DH: “Did you like the idea of being able to cause them pain and suffering?”

X: “Yes.”

DH: “Did you like the idea of trying to get away with killing and murder and torture without anybody knowing?”

X: “I’m not sure.”

From: 11:10am, 12/12/23

Gosh, this trial is such a lot. I don't envy the jury at all, nor poor Brianna's family. I hope anyone reading about this trial and struggling is able to look after themselves/seek support as well.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/live-court-updates-two-teenagers-28180964

 

[Mirabel091]

RL :“Boy Y says he moved away to go for a wee behind a tree. When he turned back, he could see you stabbing her. You are basically saying the same as him now, aren’t you? You didn’t go for a wee, but you went to stretch your legs.”

X: “Yes, that’s right.”

...

 

[mrjitty]

More X. The prosecution suggests that it was Girl X who sent the "where are you" message from Brianna phone.

RL: “You’re sending Nathan a message, hurry. Was this the sort of message you were sending to Brianna?”

X: “Yeah.”

RL: “That’s at one minute past three.”

X: “Yes.”

RL: “I’m going to suggest you sent the next message using Brianna’s phone. Girl where are you? It’s at six minutes past three and 27 seconds. Brianna’s phone is used to send you a message.Girl where are you? Did you send that message?”

X: “No.”

RL: “Fifteen or so seconds later, why are you bothering at this stage to delete a chat on your phone?”

X: “I don’t remember why I deleted it.”

RL: “Why would you want at this stage, at six minutes past three, 15 seconds after Brianna sent you that message, why would you want to delete a chat with Brianna?”

 

[Honeybirdette]

DH: “This is the 10th of February, the day before Brianna was killed. You said to Boy Y, what knife are you bringing? He said my knife. You say you’ve got loads. Boy Y said it’s the one I showed you before. The hunting knife. He says this, I showed you in person as well as on the phone. When did Boy Y show you his knife in person?”

X: “I don’t remember.”

DH: “You only saw him twice that year. You saw him on February 11, when he had that knife with him. The only other time you’d seen him in person was January 28.”

X: “Yes.”

DH: “Did he bring that knife with him to LInear Park on January 28, on the day that Brianna cancelled?”

X: “I don’t think so, no.”

DH: “When did he show you this knife then? That’s the only time he had the opportunity to do so.”

Excellent cross examination. Essentially proving that boy y brought the knife out on the 28th January, (when Brianna cancelled last min) …. Clearly obvious that it’s gone way past “fantasy” at this stage.

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[mrjitty]

Loving the skill of the English Barrister style court cross examination. No comment on guilt or innocence, but you can admire the craft with which they've teased this then pulled it out in the open in final minutes of X

DH: “Is the truth was that you had Brianna’s phone and you took it with you when you left Linear Park?”

X: “No.”

DH: “Because you knew that you had been exchanging messages with Brianna. If anybody got hold of Brianna’s phone, they might be able to see what those messages were.”

X: “No.”

DH: “Boy Y hadn’t been exchanging messages with Brianna, had he? Did you take that phone, and as you walked past the drain, do you both stop so you could put it in the grid?”

X: “No.”

 

[Mirabel091]

DH: “When she came along that path, she saw two people standing by Brianna’s body. You and Boy Y. On your evidence, that couldn’t have happened could it? You’ve lied about that havent you?”

X: “I went over to see if she was breathing.”

DH: “You told the jury Boy Y had gone by then. You’re lying aren't you?”

X: “No.”

DH: “You’ve lied to this jury, just like you lied to the police.”

X: “No.”

Ms Heer has no further questions for Girl X.

 

[Alyce]

DH: “When she came along that path, she saw two people standing by Brianna’s body. You and Boy Y. On your evidence, that couldn’t have happened could it? You’ve lied about that havent you?”

X: “I went over to see if she was breathing.”

DH: “You told the jury Boy Y had gone by then. You’re lying aren't you?”

X: “No.”

DH: “You’ve lied to this jury, just like you lied to the police.”

X: “No.”

Ms Heer has no further questions for Girl X.

Great finish here after superb cross examination.

 

[Honeybirdette]

The jury is brought back into court.

Mr Pratt says they will be read a “short agreed fact”.

Junior counsel Ms Holt says: “Following the cross-examination of Girl X, the unit she is residing was contacted and asked to look for a burgundy pyjama top with hearts on. They located the item described and sent four photographs of the top

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Im confused about this. So the red top the police seized that was found to contain no blood, the prosecution are suggesting this wasn’t the top she wore to the killing. And the actual top she wore was one that her mum had collected for her two days later and sent to her secure unit / prison for her to carry on wearing??

 

[Honeybirdette]

Wouldn’t the various cctv ( in Sainsbury’s, on dash cam) be clear enough to show what top it was?
Shes describing it as a pyjama top but in the witness box is asked “are you sure that’s not a hoodie”
Without seeing it ourselves, it’s hard to know if this is a top she would wear out or not.

 

[Pinkestpanther]

The jury is brought back into court.

Mr Pratt says they will be read a “short agreed fact”.

Junior counsel Ms Holt says: “Following the cross-examination of Girl X, the unit she is residing was contacted and asked to look for a burgundy pyjama top with hearts on. They located the item described and sent four photographs of the top

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Im confused about this. So the red top the police seized that was found to contain no blood, the prosecution are suggesting this wasn’t the top she wore to the killing. And the actual top she wore was one that her mum had collected for her two days later and sent to her secure unit / prison for her to carry on wearing??

Yes, I'm confused about this too.

 

[Legally Bland]

15:58KEY EVENT

Boy Y diagnosed with selective mutism and will type answers during his evidence​

Justice Yip says the court will now turn to Boy Y’s case, although there is not sufficient time for him to begin giving evidence this afternoon.

But she says: “There are certain things I need to tell the jury about how he is going to give evidence.”

Junior counsel Mr Swift will first read agreed facts on this topic

He says: “Since his arrest, Boy Y has been diagnosed by psychologists with autistic spectrum disorder. Features of his ASD together with anxiety impact on his presentation and communication skills.

“Although Boy Y has a good overall understanding of language, following his remand he gradually stopped speaking to anyone apart from his mother. He has since been diagnosed with selective mutism. Boy Y’s silence is not a matter of choice. His verbal challenges are beyond his personal control.”

Justice Yip tells the jury: “You will appreciate that that makes it difficult for Boy Y to give evidence in the usual way. I have to give consideration how he can give his evidence at court. He can’t give it in oral form. That has required careful thought. We have come up with a solution. He is going to give his evidence over a link. He will be at court, he will just be nearby but not in the witness box. He is then going to give his evidence in writing by typing his answers. We have a transcriber in court who is going to type the questions put to him. He will be able to type the answer. You will see the answers being typed on your screen. That allows Boy Y to give evidence to you. It’s important every defendant has an opportunity to give evidence. That’s the solution that we have come up with.”

This may also involve him “pointing to things” when giving answers such as yes and no.

The judge continues: “Once he has typed his response, Mrs Williams (Boy Y’s intermediary) will read it out. She will be the person who speaks the evidence on to the court record.

“All of this is essentially to give Boy Y a fair opportunity to give evidence in the way any other defendant can do. That’s what’s going to happen tomorrow morning.”

Justice Yip asks for the jury to return at 10am on Wednesday.

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

So they can see what he's typing, while he's typing. I wonder what will happen if he starts typing something, but then deletes it then types something else instead (something I do all the time!). Will they be able to consider that as evidence?

 

[Honeybirdette]

15:58KEY EVENT

Boy Y diagnosed with selective mutism and will type answers during his evidence​

Justice Yip says the court will now turn to Boy Y’s case, although there is not sufficient time for him to begin giving evidence this afternoon.

But she says: “There are certain things I need to tell the jury about how he is going to give evidence.”

Junior counsel Mr Swift will first read agreed facts on this topic

He says: “Since his arrest, Boy Y has been diagnosed by psychologists with autistic spectrum disorder. Features of his ASD together with anxiety impact on his presentation and communication skills.

“Although Boy Y has a good overall understanding of language, following his remand he gradually stopped speaking to anyone apart from his mother. He has since been diagnosed with selective mutism. Boy Y’s silence is not a matter of choice. His verbal challenges are beyond his personal control.”

Justice Yip tells the jury: “You will appreciate that that makes it difficult for Boy Y to give evidence in the usual way. I have to give consideration how he can give his evidence at court. He can’t give it in oral form. That has required careful thought. We have come up with a solution. He is going to give his evidence over a link. He will be at court, he will just be nearby but not in the witness box. He is then going to give his evidence in writing by typing his answers. We have a transcriber in court who is going to type the questions put to him. He will be able to type the answer. You will see the answers being typed on your screen. That allows Boy Y to give evidence to you. It’s important every defendant has an opportunity to give evidence. That’s the solution that we have come up with.”

This may also involve him “pointing to things” when giving answers such as yes and no.

The judge continues: “Once he has typed his response, Mrs Williams (Boy Y’s intermediary) will read it out. She will be the person who speaks the evidence on to the court record.

“All of this is essentially to give Boy Y a fair opportunity to give evidence in the way any other defendant can do. That’s what’s going to happen tomorrow morning.”

Justice Yip asks for the jury to return at 10am on Wednesday.

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

How odd? He could speak perfectly ok pre murder. And seems to be able to speak to his mum just fine too.
Strange

 

[Honeybirdette]

I can’t stop thinking about this “pyjama” top with hearts on. If that really was the top she wore to the killing, which may or may not have had blood staining, the fact this has been sent to her prison for her to carry on wearing is sooooo f***ed up.
I mean, can you imagine it wasn’t even washed before her mum sent it in? A trophy for Her, right infront of everyone’s faces.

 

[Dotta]

Wouldn’t the various cctv ( in Sainsbury’s, on dash cam) be clear enough to show what top it was?
Shes describing it as a pyjama top but in the witness box is asked “are you sure that’s not a hoodie”
Without seeing it ourselves, it’s hard to know if this is a top she would wear out or not.

Girl X wore a winter coat/jacket, no?
I think this item was checked for victim's blood.
Also her trousers and shoes.

Would blood be present on a top worn beneath a winter jacket?
Was the jacket/coat unzipped?

JMO

 

[Mirabel091]

From forensic scientist Ms Roughley last week:

RL: “Have you been in cases where items have been washed?”

JR: “Yes I have.”

RL: “And when you wash either the entire item or part of it, you can sometimes wash away blood.”

JR: “In some instances, you can.”

Surely, even if it was washed, they'd check it now?

 

[Dotta]

How odd? He could speak perfectly ok pre murder. And seems to be able to speak to his mum just fine too.
Strange

Not really odd IMO.
There were once twin girls in my school who suffered with this kind of mutism.

They never answered teachers' questions, but talked freely among themselves.

They attended therapy.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

So they can see what he's typing, while he's typing. I wonder what will happen if he starts typing something, but then deletes it then types something else instead (something I do all the time!). Will they be able to consider that as evidence?

I guess the final version of his answers will be taken into account.
JMO

 

[Honeybirdette]

Not really odd IMO.
There were once twin girls in my school who suffered with this kind of mutism.

They never answered teachers' questions, but talked freely among themselves.

They attended therapy.

JMO

Just seems very convenient imo

 

[iamshadow21]

How odd? He could speak perfectly ok pre murder. And seems to be able to speak to his mum just fine too.
Strange

It's an anxiety disorder. I've had bouts of it (I also am an autistic/adhder and have a trauma disorder and GAD.) The words literally won't come out. You can't choose. It's terrifying and frustrating and getting stressed and anxious about not being able to communicate just makes it less likely for the words to come out.

Selective mutism

Find out about selective mutism, an anxiety disorder that prevents people from speaking in certain social situations.

www.nhs.uk

I for one am pleased they're giving an accessible option for Boy Y to speak. I wouldn't be comfortable if Girl X got her chance on the stand and Boy Y didn't because his verbal speech wouldn't co operate.

MOO