UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #10

[Popejohn3]

in view of the number of people who seem to have been involved and the efficiency. of it all, im inclined to think that Claudius remains aren't in York....what do you think

I think you could be partly bright ie remains on the Yorkshire moors but just the one person involved ! Imo

 

[Vixey]

She dug herself a hole really.. She knew all these people and she knew what they were doing.

She had known similar types previous to moving to Heworth.

She had a friendship group at the NH some of who were discribed as rogues

She knew 2 guys who lived in Cyrus and travelled to th UK regularly one had worked previously at the local pub and the other knew her from holidaying there. One of which was in the UK at the time of her disappearance.

She knew people in Manchester and spent time there with them and vice versa..

She had and ex policeman boyfriend .. several of her friends confirmed this.

Its all very well when you can compartmentalise your life keeping these people at a relatively safe distance apart relationship/conversation wise. But by the very nature of the people and the activities of these types when deals or activities collide and loyalities and codes are questioned the consequences are considerable and they ultimately end in violence and sometimes death.

Its only my opinion but I think when the activities and loyalities within these groups activites came into question the group looked at who had connections with everyone in that group (the truth always outs) and CL was being watched/followed because of this.

I think that on the evening of the 18th on Heworth Road these groups and their activities came together. A decision and plan had already been made regarding CL by then. I think she was extracted from the house that night, and people were in and out of her front door that evening.

No ones mentioned a fight in the street on Heworth road that night but in my opinion there was..

I also believe there was a scuffle/struggle earlier that evening (not involving CL)
in the turning into the Limes ..things were already begining to kick off .

I think this was planned and well organised

No wonder these groups are so feared locally

Note:- these are my opinions . DYO.
Everyone is innocent until proved guilty

What if Claudia was involved With others in criminal / illegal activity. Say an operation was in place and Claudia was the weakest link and easier to gain information from due to the fact of fear and the possibility of serving time and agreed to gather intelligence. Claudia would receive a call and get up and leave, meetings away from the local area with unknown persons. Perhaps Claudia was seen meeting someone and Claudia explained it was a police officer and it was some sort of relationship. What if others involved did not believe this and Claudia was too much of a risk! Would police know if a major operation was in place or even undercover officers! Claudia was murdered so would a normal inquiry continue and take place and why were they called the rogues gallery

 

[keep-it-real]

What if Claudia was involved With others in criminal / illegal activity. Say an operation was in place and Claudia was the weakest link and easier to gain information from due to the fact of fear and the possibility of serving time and agreed to gather intelligence. Claudia would receive a call and get up and leave, meetings away from the local area with unknown persons. Perhaps Claudia was seen meeting someone and Claudia explained it was a police officer and it was some sort of relationship. What if others involved did not believe this and Claudia was too much of a risk! Would police know if a major operation was in place or even undercover officers! Claudia was murdered so would a normal inquiry continue and take place and why were they called the rogues gallery

Nothing seemed to have change around Heworth Road though did it.. its always been business as usual
Her friends have said she had an expoliceman boyfriend perhaps he wasnt an ex
Was he a bent copper?
It's likely she could have met him in the circles she moved in

Do you think enough has been done to try to identify this ex policeman?

Just my opinion
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty
DYO

 

[AcbMurders]

Sounds familiar... Grace Millane's trial exposes a dark trend in media coverage of violence against women

 

[AcbMurders]

Her friends have said she had an expoliceman boyfriend perhaps he wasnt an ex. Was he a bent copper?
It's likely she could have met him in the circles she moved in. Do you think enough has been done to try to identify this ex policeman?

Do we know which ones of CL’s friends have gone on record about the ex-policeman boyfriend? I’m not questioning Martin Dales’s words, just interested. SC said CL wasn’t seeing anyone. Maybe her Malton friends (or her sister) said that she’d had an ex-policeman boyfriend when she lived there? Or her Monkbar Hotel former colleagues?

 

[Popejohn3]

I think you could be partly bright ie remains on the Yorkshire moors but just the one person involved ! Imo

That should read partly right sorry

 

[Popejohn3]

She dug herself a hole really.. She knew all these people and she knew what they were doing.

She had known similar types previous to moving to Heworth.

She had a friendship group at the NH some of who were discribed as rogues

She knew 2 guys who lived in Cyrus and travelled to th UK regularly one had worked previously at the local pub and the other knew her from holidaying there. One of which was in the UK at the time of her disappearance.

She knew people in Manchester and spent time there with them and vice versa..

She had and ex policeman boyfriend .. several of her friends confirmed this.

Its all very well when you can compartmentalise your life keeping these people at a relatively safe distance apart relationship/conversation wise. But by the very nature of the people and the activities of these types when deals or activities collide and loyalities and codes are questioned the consequences are considerable and they ultimately end in violence and sometimes death.

Its only my opinion but I think when the activities and loyalities within these groups activites came into question the group looked at who had connections with everyone in that group (the truth always outs) and CL was being watched/followed because of this.

I think that on the evening of the 18th on Heworth Road these groups and their activities came together. A decision and plan had already been made regarding CL by then. I think she was extracted from the house that night, and people were in and out of her front door that evening.

No ones mentioned a fight in the street on Heworth road that night but in my opinion there was..

I also believe there was a scuffle/struggle earlier that evening (not involving CL)
in the turning into the Limes ..things were already begining to kick off .

I think this was planned and well organised

No wonder these groups are so feared locally

Note:- these are my opinions . DYO.
Everyone is innocent until proved guilty

Hi you seem to be referring to SS as having worked in NH but I believe he just drank there

 

[keep-it-real]

Do we know which ones of CL’s friends have gone on record about the ex-policeman boyfriend? I’m not questioning Martin Dales’s words, just interested. SC said CL wasn’t seeing anyone. Maybe her Malton friends (or her sister) said that she’d had an ex-policeman boyfriend when she lived there? Or her Monkbar Hotel former colleagues?

I dont think the names were ever made public the article in the Express newspaper it says several friends

Several friends of the chef, aged 35 when she vanished from York just over a year ago, have told her family she was involved with an ex-officer but they did not know his name or rank.

North Yorkshire Police are aware of the speculation but have said there has never been any substantiated evidence that she was involved with an officer.

Martin Dales, a friend of Miss Lawrence, said: “The information comes from reliable sources and we have no reason to believe it is untrue.
Did Claudia have a secret police lover?

 

[keep-it-real]

Hi you seem to be referring to SS as having worked in NH but I believe he just drank there

Your are right PJ thank for the correction

 

[cortina]

you're right about the hamster wheel, kir, so, for what its worth and bearing in mind what you've. said....assuming its true re the scuffle, this is what I think....dont want any opinions on here to prejudice a trial.....innocent until proved guilty etc.

I think jk was with claudia that evening because I think the message was a complete fake and I think any analyst who examined Claudius style would tell you the same.

If there was a man there beforehand, I think it was jks boyfriend...claudia may have thought it was going to be a romantic assignation but it wasn't....I think the plan was to get two of her friends to persuade her to go outside to minimise her doubts and to avoid noise...I dont think there was anything to do with jk finding Claudia with her boyfriend....there would have been a lot of noise and several people needed to get the three of them out...but its still possible.

as soon as they were outside someone knocked claudia out....hence jus immortal words I hope she was dead when her head touched the ground...or whatever.....claudia was then driven to the river where they made sure she was dead and then she was either put on a boat, into another vehicle, or transported away in the same vehicle.

the Heworth lot handed her over to the big boys either outside her house or at the. river.

like vixey, ive wondered if Claudius death interrupted a bigger police op, and ive wondered if it was deliberately mismanaged to see if they could still get to the heart of it.

I dont know if the activities are still going on in Heworth as usual....I think they're at or near the end of a long chain...maybe stretching. back through Europe and they've got to process the big fish first...but its. true that none of the Heworth key players have fled...I believe that sc has gone...but not into hiding...because she couldn't stand it any more...although she still knows a lot

 

[cortina]

I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a local person of influence involved in the drugs scene...I dont believe they wanted claudia dead, but I think they're keen to protect the Haworth gang in case their own role is revealed.

why does my. computer keep typing Haworth when I mean Heworth....were the Brontes in on this....we know branwell was a. junkie

sorry...just need a bit of light relief

 

[AcbMurders]

I dont think the names were ever made public... Martin Dales, a friend of Miss Lawrence, said: “The information comes from reliable sources and we have no reason to believe it is untrue.

So these friends wanted to remain anonymous. It would be interesting to know who the ‘reliable sources’ are. Did they tell the family but not the police then? Or didn’t the police take notice, I wonder.

 

[keep-it-real]

So these friends wanted to remain anonymous. It would be interesting to know who the ‘reliable sources’ are. Did they tell the family but not the police then? Or didn’t the police take notice, I wonder.

Quote from the Express article:-
North Yorkshire Police are aware of the speculation but have said there has never been any substantiated evidence that she was involved with an officer.

Im not sure about wanting to remain anonymous
But its clear they were aware of him
I wonder how much effort at the time was put in finding him.. we know the investigation team were overwhelmed and were concentrating their efforts in a different direction.
Several people were obviously willing to come forward to say they knew about him I find it difficult to believe that they werent able to provide some clues to his identity

 

[Popejohn3]

Quote from the Express article:-
North Yorkshire Police are aware of the speculation but have said there has never been any substantiated evidence that she was involved with an officer.

Im not sure about wanting to remain anonymous
But its clear they were aware of him
I wonder how much effort at the time was put in finding him.. we know the investigation team were overwhelmed and were concentrating their efforts in a different direction.
Several people were obviously willing to come forward to say they knew about him I find it difficult to believe that they werent able to provide some clues to his identity

In the beginning newspapers referred to police officer when they meant her police woman friend .

 

[cortina]

I dont know if it really matters in the end....any rumours. would. have been enough to frighten some people she knew, and, if it was true, that was just one more layer of complicated risk she was taking.

thanks for the half bright, popejohn...even though you corrected, thats half brighter than I usually am

 

[keep-it-real]

I dont know if it really matters in the end....any rumours. would. have been enough to frighten some people she knew, and, if it was true, that was just one more layer of complicated risk she was taking.

thanks for the half bright, popejohn...even though you corrected, thats half brighter than I usually am

Personally I think its hugely important..
Was he at her home on the evening of the 18th
What connection if any did he have had with criminal activities in that area.
And was her relationship with him the catalyst for her disappearance

MOO

 

[cortina]

well, yes, its true, it could have been the catalyst...but then so, too, could have been any of her other connections, or just the whole web became too much...it would be interesting, though, if. he was still serving but bent.

if he was at her home on the evening of 18th...presumably for romantic reasons....would. she have opened the door to jk or any other woman and would they have been persuaded. to go out.

I think that could only have been under the circumstances that he was in on the plan or more people came and forced them out...and he must have kept quiet about it ever since.

its not impossible, but I still think it was more likely to have been one of the Heworth gang...probably jk boyfriend.

if he'd have been bent, I suspect. they. would have known, once they knew who he was, rather than just hearing the rumour that shed got a boyfriend who was a policeman ....in fact, if he were bent, he'd probably. have suggested a deal with them...if they didn't already have one....and,, if he. wasn't bent and was there...has he really managed to stay quiet.

im not saying he didn't exist, but I dont think he was there that night, although, as usual, I reserve the right to change my. mind completely

 

[Popejohn3]

Personally I think its hugely important..
Was he at her home on the evening of the 18th
What connection if any did he have had with criminal activities in that area.
And was her relationship with him the catalyst for her disappearance

MOO

I would have thought that all police offices would have to provide dna plus fingerprints as they join surely ?

 

[Popejohn3]

I would have thought that all police offices would have to provide dna plus fingerprints as they join surely ?

I have had this confirmed by a police officer just now

 

[keep-it-real]

I have had this confirmed by a police officer just now

Persumably they are not held on the National DNA database?

Was this the Cold Case team you spoke to PJ?
If it was did you ask them if they had run the unidentified male print found in CL's home through police DNA fingerprint records..
Given the speculation that CL had an expoliceman boyfriend they would have good reason to check.