UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #12

[keep-it-real]

Respect kir but I’m not sure taking a random still from an action movie is right you can get two images of the same person in that still . I hasten to add I have no expertise here whatsoever ever !

Action Movie?

 

[Popejohn3]

Action Movie?

You know... movement... walking

 

[Popejohn3]

Someone has possibly done a very good job though. The public has wrongly or rightly reported they have seen someone who could have been Claudia in the morning. I think one incident was an arguement on a bridge with a smoker and one near the University. Those reported sightings could have been:

A) Genuine reports; but genuine mistaken identity. The persons were a totally innocent couple called Mr and Mrs Smith who were completely innocent
B) Genuine reports; and the person that was seen, was indeed Claudia
C) Sinister reports made by the perpetrators, and the Female perpetrator dressed like Claudia in order to encourage false sightings made by the general public

If c would they also have false number plates ?
A mr and Mrs Smith would have surfaced after 12,years
B is more likely IMO and he would be the perpetrator and not about to come forward unless he grows a conscience!
And you know what if I were him I’d contact the family/ police and tell them where she is because there are some very determined people here and elsewhere and are getting closer.
With a funeral and some closure out of the way most would probably stop talking about it !

 

[MEKON]

If c would they also have false number plates ?
A mr and Mrs Smith would have surfaced after 12,years
B is more likely IMO and he would be the perpetrator and not about to come forward unless he grows a conscience!
And you know what if I were him I’d contact the family/ police and tell them where she is because there are some very determined people here and elsewhere and are getting closer.
With a funeral and some closure out of the way most would probably stop talking about it !

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When I referred to point A: My precise point was that in 2009 a member of the public who genuinely reported an argument between a Male and a Female; could have genuinely seen a couple, Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And Mrs. Smith could have genuinely appeared to look like Claudia without any foul play. Some witnesses or people who witnesses spot; even genuine or innocent ones, do not always come forward


Someone has possibly done a very good job though. The public has wrongly or rightly reported they have seen someone who could have been Claudia in the morning. I think one incident was an arguement on a bridge with a smoker and one near the University. Those reported sightings could have been:

A) Genuine reports; but genuine mistaken identity. The persons were a totally innocent couple called Mr and Mrs Smith who were completely innocent
B) Genuine reports; and the person that was seen, was indeed Claudia
C) Sinister reports made by the perpetrators, and the Female perpetrator dressed like Claudia in order to encourage false sightings made by the general public

 

[Popejohn3]

Yes if C would they have had false number plates too ?

 

[Blonderabbit]

@Inspector Evans Yes you would exit CL garden onto alley, turn Left and walk to end of alley. In 2009, it was then possible at the end of alley to come into Nags Head Car Park at rear.

Regarding the Fire Escape-If someone left the door open or even was waiting to let someone in

Were Alleyperson and White Jacket working as a combo?
One at top of Escape or in a room and one at CL house?

It was not possible to turn left at the foot of C.ls garden and access the nags - not without climbing over walls and fencing

 

[oudzuid]

Respect kir but I’m not sure taking a random still from an action movie is right you can get two images of the same person in that still . I hasten to add I have no expertise here whatsoever ever !

I have a very high Def computer with great pixality (I think its called that )
I have to confess @keep-it-real I struggle to see what you are seeing.
What I do believe that you see often, as mentioned before is light refraction.
I recall once when looking at CCTV footage in this case, I saw people when they were trees.
I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
My problem with seeing something that isnt there though is that within moments its quite easy to then "Shoehorn" what you think you see into the case or a theory and then going in the wrong direction.

I am just trying to be helpful here and do wish that I could pick out some of your sightings. However I will keep an open mind and if I am wrong then I will be the first to admit this.

Its good that you are researching these things though.

 

[oudzuid]

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When I referred to point A: My precise point was that in 2009 a member of the public who genuinely reported an argument between a Male and a Female; could have genuinely seen a couple, Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And Mrs. Smith could have genuinely appeared to look like Claudia without any foul play. Some witnesses or people who witnesses spot; even genuine or innocent ones, do not always come forward


Someone has possibly done a very good job though. The public has wrongly or rightly reported they have seen someone who could have been Claudia in the morning. I think one incident was an arguement on a bridge with a smoker and one near the University. Those reported sightings could have been:

A) Genuine reports; but genuine mistaken identity. The persons were a totally innocent couple called Mr and Mrs Smith who were completely innocent
B) Genuine reports; and the person that was seen, was indeed Claudia
C) Sinister reports made by the perpetrators, and the Female perpetrator dressed like Claudia in order to encourage false sightings made by the general public

Hi @MEKON There were 2 sightings of a couple(s) that morning:
One on Melrosegate Bridge by the sub station-They were described as chatting, not arguing. There was no mention of a car here (I know you haven't suggested a car).

One on university Road at 06:10-They were with the Maroon car with a door flung open and they were on the grass verge on other side of the road.

From the Crimewatch reconstruction it was the passenger door that was thrown open as if a passenger had got out and crossed the road to the area that Claudia would normally cut through to work (Through Uni Grounds).

This suggests that the driver had stopped. An argument during the journey is suggested by the passenger door being eft open in a rage and the driver had followed the passenger and the argument continued.

The car was maroon in colour and could very well be the same car that was often parked in Heworth Place (Maroon Volvo with roof bars)

Man and woman seen arguing outside University of York

The ownership of this vehicle exchanged hands between one of 4 POI's arrested DER. and a recent boyfriend of Claudias who she dated and his marriage split up LH.
He was the joint owner with his brother (Who dies in 2018( of a scrapyard near to Heworth Road if you recall.
The Scrapyard was inherited from parents, the father had died sometime ago and the mother more recently.

LH and Bro were trying to sell the land to the Pavlou Brothers the owners of a York city nightclub as they wanted to build a casino with developers.
Local council blocked the building of the casino and in 2018 /19 the scrapyard land was sold to a property developer to build student accom on the site.

LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

This is all based upon my research and reading of all the WS threads and so if anyone would like details of this, which I cannot publish all of on here, they could do thier own research.

 

[oudzuid]

It was not possible to turn left at the foot of C.ls garden and access the nags - not without climbing over walls and fencing

Hi @Blonderabbit Looking at many of the earlier threads from 2019 it has been discussed in length that it WAS possible to get from CL house to Nags car park, albeit a slightly uncomfortable brush with some foilage.

This foliage may gather some evidence and of course could have been by Malin searched they alley many years later for more evidence that Galloways team may have missed

 

[Popejohn3]

It was not possible to turn left at the foot of C.ls garden and access the nags - not without climbing over walls and fencing

This is very important you see . A WS member convinced us that it was possible but he checked the place years later and it seems you are talking from first hand experience during the early days of the investigation !
It goes without saying that neither of you have to confirm anything !

 

[keep-it-real]

Hi @MEKON There were 2 sightings of a couple(s) that morning:
One on Melrosegate Bridge by the sub station-They were described as chatting, not arguing. There was no mention of a car here (I know you haven't suggested a car).
One on university Road at 06:10-They were with the Maroon car with a door flung open and they were on the grass verge on other side of the road.
From the Crimewatch reconstruction it was the passenger door that was thrown open as if a passenger had got out and crossed the road to the area that Claudia would normally cut through to work (Through Uni Grounds).
This suggests that the driver had stopped. An argument during the journey is suggested by the passenger door being eft open in a rage and the driver had followed the passenger and the argument continued.
The car was maroon in colour and could very well be the same car that was often parked in Heworth Place (Maroon Volvo with roof bars)
Man and woman seen arguing outside University of York
The ownership of this vehicle exchanged hands between one of 4 POI's arrested DER. and a recent boyfriend of Claudias who she dated and his marriage split up LH.
He was the joint owner with his brother (Who dies in 2018( of a scrapyard near to Heworth Road if you recall.
The Scrapyard was inherited from parents, the father had died sometime ago and the mother more recently.
LH and Bro were trying to sell the land to the Pavlou Brothers the owners of a York city nightclub as they wanted to build a casino with developers.
Local council blocked the building of the casino and in 2018 /19 the scrapyard land was sold to a property developer to build student accom on the site.
LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.
This is all based upon my research and reading of all the WS threads and so if anyone would like details of this, which I cannot publish all of on here, they could do thier own research.

The Crimewatch update programme on July 2009 stated that the sighting on Melrosegate Bridge was Weds 18th rather than the Thurs the 19th
skip to 41.00 inthe video

 

[keep-it-real]

Hi @MEKON There were 2 sightings of a couple(s) that morning:
One on Melrosegate Bridge by the sub station-They were described as chatting, not arguing. There was no mention of a car here (I know you haven't suggested a car).

One on university Road at 06:10-They were with the Maroon car with a door flung open and they were on the grass verge on other side of the road.

From the Crimewatch reconstruction it was the passenger door that was thrown open as if a passenger had got out and crossed the road to the area that Claudia would normally cut through to work (Through Uni Grounds).

This suggests that the driver had stopped. An argument during the journey is suggested by the passenger door being eft open in a rage and the driver had followed the passenger and the argument continued.

The car was maroon in colour and could very well be the same car that was often parked in Heworth Place (Maroon Volvo with roof bars)

Man and woman seen arguing outside University of York

The ownership of this vehicle exchanged hands between one of 4 POI's arrested DER. and a recent boyfriend of Claudias who she dated and his marriage split up LH.
He was the joint owner with his brother (Who dies in 2018( of a scrapyard near to Heworth Road if you recall.
The Scrapyard was inherited from parents, the father had died sometime ago and the mother more recently.

LH and Bro were trying to sell the land to the Pavlou Brothers the owners of a York city nightclub as they wanted to build a casino with developers.
Local council blocked the building of the casino and in 2018 /19 the scrapyard land was sold to a property developer to build student accom on the site.

LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

This is all based upon my research and reading of all the WS threads and so if anyone would like details of this, which I cannot publish all of on here, they could do thier own research.

The open passenger door doesnt neccessarily suggest that the female had been travelling in the car. The female could have been walking that route and the person that exited from the passenger door was a passenger in the car who on spotting the female walking asked the driver to pull over so he could get out to speak to her.

 

[keep-it-real]

Hi @MEKON There were 2 sightings of a couple(s) that morning:
One on Melrosegate Bridge by the sub station-They were described as chatting, not arguing. There was no mention of a car here (I know you haven't suggested a car).

One on university Road at 06:10-They were with the Maroon car with a door flung open and they were on the grass verge on other side of the road.

From the Crimewatch reconstruction it was the passenger door that was thrown open as if a passenger had got out and crossed the road to the area that Claudia would normally cut through to work (Through Uni Grounds).

This suggests that the driver had stopped. An argument during the journey is suggested by the passenger door being eft open in a rage and the driver had followed the passenger and the argument continued.

The car was maroon in colour and could very well be the same car that was often parked in Heworth Place (Maroon Volvo with roof bars)

Man and woman seen arguing outside University of York

The ownership of this vehicle exchanged hands between one of 4 POI's arrested DER. and a recent boyfriend of Claudias who she dated and his marriage split up LH.
He was the joint owner with his brother (Who dies in 2018( of a scrapyard near to Heworth Road if you recall.
The Scrapyard was inherited from parents, the father had died sometime ago and the mother more recently.

LH and Bro were trying to sell the land to the Pavlou Brothers the owners of a York city nightclub as they wanted to build a casino with developers.
Local council blocked the building of the casino and in 2018 /19 the scrapyard land was sold to a property developer to build student accom on the site.

LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

This is all based upon my research and reading of all the WS threads and so if anyone would like details of this, which I cannot publish all of on here, they could do thier own research.

LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

Could you please provide links to these reports.

 

[Popejohn3]

The open passenger door doesnt neccessarily suggest that the female had been travelling in the car. The female could have been walking that route and the person that exited from the passenger door was a passenger in the car who on spotting the female walking asked the driver to pull over so he could get out to speak to her.

Yes this is possible.That car could also have been LHD
There was no suggestion in the reconstruction and witness report that anyone was in the car when the witness looked in their rear view mirror

 

[oudzuid]

This is very important you see . A WS member convinced us that it was possible but he checked the place years later and it seems you are talking from first hand experience during the early days of the investigation !
It goes without saying that neither of you have to confirm anything !

@Popejohn3 I was referring to many discussions on this matter and the scene had been viewed in Google for 2008.

 

[oudzuid]

The open passenger door doesnt neccessarily suggest that the female had been travelling in the car. The female could have been walking that route and the person that exited from the passenger door was a passenger in the car who on spotting the female walking asked the driver to pull over so he could get out to speak to her.

And if it was CL she would have been late walking which would be out of character for her

 

[oudzuid]

LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

Could you please provide links to these reports.

@keep-it-real I have stated that rules do not permit me to provide links to this information. You should not be encouraging me to do this.

As I have stated I did my own research here.
You could do your own research and I will point you in the right direction.

Please look at Social media for LH Brother and you will see postings of a conversation regarding this.

I cannot comment on where I have seen this information online again because I wish to abide by site rules and it could be deemed a rumour.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It was not possible to turn left at the foot of C.ls garden and access the nags - not without climbing over walls and fencing

I have doubts .... I heard other statements time ago on WS.

 

[keep-it-real]

@keep-it-real I have stated that rules do not permit me to provide links to this information. You should not be encouraging me to do this.

As I have stated I did my own research here.
You could do your own research and I will point you in the right direction.

Please look at Social media for LH Brother and you will see postings of a conversation regarding this.

I cannot comment on where I have seen this information online again because I wish to abide by site rules and it could be deemed a rumour.

I am not sure I follow you my request was for a link to part of your post:-
LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

If you saw this information posted on in this thread how would that be seen as me encouraging you to break WS rules by posting the link to that particular post.

I would add I do not have social media Facebook.
And I would never encourage anyone to break WS rules.

 

[oudzuid]

I am not sure I follow you my request was for a link to part of your post:-
LH brother died on holiday. I have seen it reported in this thread that he owed money to an expat from York who now lives in Thailand and in an exchange the brother had apologised for being late with a payment, which would come from the sale of the land and so not an insignificant amount of money.

If you saw this information posted on in this thread how would that be seen as me encouraging you to break WS rules by posting the link to that particular post.

I would add I do not have social media Facebook.
And I would never encourage anyone to break WS rules.

Can I suggest what I have done is to read all postings from December 2020 and you will see mention of this here.