UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #13

[Blonderabbit]

@MEKON
I’m not qualified in this arena but I am a Senior Investigative Officer and I have interviewed murder suspects many many times.
Since first hearing JK saying this and having now had the luxury of time to consider the meaning of such a statement and trying to interpret it, to me, and this is purely MOO, it speaks to me as though JK knows that CL has passed and how and was either present to witness CL’s death or was told by a person who was present when CL’s death occurred. It’s possible that she (CL) fell/was pushed from a height and JK’s comments are referring to CL falling and JK hoping that she didn’t suffer because she hopes that CL was not aware /had blacked out to the point of unconsciousness/ adrenaline levels were so high and subsequently took over, to the point where CL wouldn’t have felt anything when she hit the ground . I am probably so far away from the actuality of what happened to CL for this theory to be laughable BUT having considered it for sometime and then added into the mix, my experience of communicating with perpetrators and their NVC’s ( non verbal communications ) as well as listening to and challenging their spoken accounts of what happened , their personal perspective and then breaking their explanations down and micro managing their account and micro probing what is said , that it comes across to me as being potentially the case that JK knows exactly who snatched CL, when , where, who, what and how ? (5WH). And that JK knows what happened to CL and where she rests. Incredulous theory???? Maybe
Again, I stress, all MOO JK as I’m aware that you occasionally drop in here with us at Websleuths.

Yes, I initially thought she's picturing events in her mind. As I said just now, I am on the fence, if you look at her appearances in 2009 - do you feel she knew then? I was struck by the tears shed by two close friends, but its assumed neither knew Claudia was dead? Dad/Mum and Sister showed concern but no tears. the Balloon release watching S.C. And lastly what did you think about G.F. appearance on sky news? if you only answer 1 question - give me your thoughts on the latter.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes, I initially thought she's picturing events in her mind. As I said just now, I am on the fence, if you look at her appearances in 2009 - do you feel she knew then? I was struck by the tears shed by two close friends, but its assumed neither knew Claudia was dead? Dad/Mum and Sister showed concern but no tears. the Balloon release watching S.C. And lastly what did you think about G.F. appearance on sky news? if you only answer 1 question - give me your thoughts on the latter.

Oohh you have got me there because I have dipped in and out of this case and therefore I am not aware of some of the finer details. So firstly , can you point me in the direction of where to find the individual pieces of information/audio/tv appearance etc that I can peruse and get back to you with my considered opinion please?
Feel free to start a conversation with me to enable free reign and discussion of those initialled . Thanks

 

[Angleterre]

Thankyou for making everything absolutely clear and adding the last paragraph which covers what my next question to you would have been.

You’re very welcome

 

[Popejohn3]

Why would he not write down such a potentially important piece of evidence

Because when they visited me they did not jot down one single word thats why !

 

[Popejohn3]

I urge SC ,jK and GF if you are here come out guns blazing because Angleterre and others have thrown so much mud at you this evening that some will stick for sure unless of course you know the case is on the verge of being solved !
Do you want to live with so much mud on your faces for the rest of your lives ...?

 

[keep-it-real]

The problem is everyone comes under suspicion in this particular case because we arent given enough information to get any traction on a one particular event or person connected to it to follow it through.
We know its complex and we know there is secrecy surrounding it because thats how we are told CL led her life. But I just get the feeling thats theres a much bigger story here than the disappearance of a promiscuous female, and where I have also found some of the comments made by some of her female friends somewhat questionable. I have also had to consider if thought I knew someone I considered a close friend and an event such as this happened and it bought to light that there were parts of that persons life which would have been to me difficult to accept as true how would I react, particularly if perhaps some parts of that persons life meant that I was perhaps being used by that person in some way in that secretive part of their life.
I would feel conflicted there was a person I knew and liked and now theres another side to this person that I probably wouldnt have liked.
With no possibility of receiving and explaination from this person I may have have felt in a way double crossed.
Is it possible that some parts of CL's life that had to remain secret then and still have to today, and that is the problem for all concerned?


Did JK say at one stage.. we just wish they would rip the bandage off and get on with it?

These are my opinions only

 

[Andyboy]

Because when they visited me they did not jot down one single word thats why !

Doesn't surprise me

 

[Popejohn3]

The problem is everyone comes under suspicion in this particular case because we arent given enough information to get any traction on a one particular event or person connected to it to follow it through.
We know its complex and we know there is secrecy surrounding it because thats how we are told CL led her life. But I just get the feeling thats theres a much bigger story here than the disappearance of a promiscuous female, and where I have also found some of the comments made by some of her female friends somewhat questionable. I have also had to consider if thought I knew someone I considered a close friend and an event such as this happened and it bought to light that there were parts of that persons life which would have been to me difficult to accept as true how would I react, particularly if perhaps some parts of that persons life meant that I was perhaps being used by that person in some way in that secretive part of their life.
I would feel conflicted there was a person I knew and liked and now theres another side to this person that I probably wouldnt have liked.
With no possibility of receiving and explaination from this person I may have have felt in a way double crossed.
Is it possible that some parts of CL's life have to remain secret, and that is the problem for all concerned?


Did JK say at one stage.. we just wish they would rip the bandage off and get on with it?

The thing is we are not part of the investigation team and never will be
The police ,family and friends owe us nothing and we don’t like it but that’s life

 

[Vixey]

What would the probability in Mathematical terms of 2 people that are seemingly dressed the same appearing 2 days running in 'near enough same area' ?

And on top of that, all 4 contributions include the people travelling in the same directions at the same time. Its as if they have timed it with a few practices beforehand

Planned!?

I wonder If any of the locals had seen anyone in different clothing before the 18th of March acting as If they were on manoeuvres performing a drill ?

As you would if a practice run! In that situation where do we see this carried out previously x

 

[MEKON]

As you would if a practice run! In that situation where do we see this carried out previously x

Sorry; sometimes I am the 'last one to understand' with certain 'fings' (my fault). Can I please ask for a literal explanation of the above

 

[MEKON]

When I first heard JK say she had hoped Claudia was “gone before she hit the ground” my interpretation was this...Hit the Ground Running: Escape and Evasion Behind Enemy Lines | ABMC Education Different locations, (Areas) A phrase has a different meaning. How did others take this ?

I am not a Psychologist but flicking through some books about dreams etc; there's plenty of theories and theorists available (Individual differences, Personality, Psychodynamic and Biological). Which I am sure are available on such platforms as Kindle or even academic sites:

RICHARD GROSS - PSYCHOLOGY 7TH ED

PART 2 - SECTION 7
Empson,Ornstein, Hobson and McCarley, Crick and Mitchison

PART 6- SECTION 42
Freud



There's some very interesting theory available about consciousness and REM sleep etc available: Carlson and Heth et al - Psychology - THE SCIENCE OF BEHAVIOR - 6TH ED.

Chapter 9 - especially p 287

 

[Vixey]

Sorry; sometimes I am the 'last one to understand' with certain 'fings' (my fault). Can I please ask for a literal explanation of the above

Sorry I think as I type, it is definitely me Ok for example, If someone was employed to take a hit out on someone then it is not unusual for a practice run close to the time. That is one scenario where this may happen imo x

 

[oudzuid]

If Claudia has been identified entering the area via a camera; there is absolutely no point in 'splitting hairs' on which human saw Claudia at the same time as the camera made a positive capture

Expanding on the above:

It may sound obvious; but if the authorities have determined Claudia has entered the area on the afternoon of the 18th of March

Then; have they the ability in a similar or different manner, to determine if Claudia has left the area?

If Claudia did leave the area in a normal fashion; would it be expected that Claudia would be picked up on CCTV ?

Yes, If she left by the front door she may well have been seen on camera unless the camera vision was obscured.
That is if Perps knew it was there.

 

[oudzuid]

I do not feel its immaterial - re the childminder. the team have already confirmed she arrived home - its on the microsite - it always has been. There are elements where links are broken, some info has been changed.

I find aspects of the handling of the case now frustrating. you just imagine how much resource is on sleuths trying to resolve this case and yet we do not have a clear version of events.
It is important re the Child minder because if Claudia was seen on camera going into her house at 3.05pm but then the childminder saw her at 3.10pm it means she must of gone back out, so then you need to know if she got back home - can they see this on camera?
if however she "as you state" saw the childminder at 2.50pm then we know she arrived home at 3.05pm. the question is then did she go out to post a letter as you have speculated? and if she did can they see her arriving back?
I do not think it matters and I am drawn into splitting hairs, however her journey home is a walk of 45mins so therefore I cannot see her getting into the sight of the Childminder at 2.50pm. (if she did even see the childminder that day.

I would say that I have a clear version of events as do many other Sleuths.
The reason some people do not feel there is a clear version is that there is some disagreement.

 

[oudzuid]

Frustration comes to mind here ! Claudia’s journey was a lot shorter time wise that day because she was given a lift !
Anyway the police have said she was at home and left for work in the morning .They do not have to give us proof to every thing they say .
If you know something pass the info to them or crimestoppers .

@Popejohn3
You are spot on regarding her journey home being shorter.
I'm not convinced that police still believe that she left for work though.
Galloway did but Malyn found far more evidence. Not all of which he would want to share for reasons we have covered.

 

[oudzuid]

which camera would she be caught on?

The camera that was installed in a house opposite 46 Heworth Road by the occupants who had installed it due to their front garden being vandalised in the past.
You wont find this reference in MSM but it is part of research undertaken and which goes to my point that many sources of information are far better then limited sources.

 

[oudzuid]

Was it said on camera ? If it was then I'm sure a Psychologist might have an idea on the thoughts behind the phrase

I do hope that the Phycologist who watched the Huntley interview has seen footage of all Media on Claudia.

 

[Blonderabbit]

@MEKON
I’m not qualified in this arena but I am a Senior Investigative Officer and I have interviewed murder suspects many many times.
Since first hearing JK saying this and having now had the luxury of time to consider the meaning of such a statement and trying to interpret it, to me, and this is purely MOO, it speaks to me as though JK knows that CL has passed and how and was either present to witness CL’s death or was told by a person who was present when CL’s death occurred. It’s possible that she (CL) fell/was pushed from a height and JK’s comments are referring to CL falling and JK hoping that she didn’t suffer because she hopes that CL was not aware /had blacked out to the point of unconsciousness/ adrenaline levels were so high and subsequently took over, to the point where CL wouldn’t have felt anything when she hit the ground . I am probably so far away from the actuality of what happened to CL for this theory to be laughable BUT having considered it for sometime and then added into the mix, my experience of communicating with perpetrators and their NVC’s ( non verbal communications ) as well as listening to and challenging their spoken accounts of what happened , their personal perspective and then breaking their explanations down and micro managing their account and micro probing what is said , that it comes across to me as being potentially the case that JK knows exactly who snatched CL, when , where, who, what and how ? (5WH). And that JK knows what happened to CL and where she rests. Incredulous theory???? Maybe
Again, I stress, all MOO JK as I’m aware that you occasionally drop in here with us at Websleuths.

Yes, I initially thought she's picturing events in her mind. As I said just now, I am on the fence, if you look at her appearances in 2009 - do you feel she knew then? I was struck by the tears shed by two close friends, but its assumed neither knew Claudia was dead? Dad/Mum and Sister showed concern but no tears. the Balloon release watching S.C. And lastly what did you think about G.F. appearance on sky news? if you only answer 1 question - give me your thoughts on the latter.

As you would if a practice run! In that situation where do we see this carried out previously x

@Vixey I am not suggesting this is my theory. However alleyway man could of been just check the coast is clear in the evening and similarly for the morning - access for the event and morning removal

 

[Blonderabbit]

Yes, If she left by the front door she may well have been seen on camera unless the camera vision was obscured.
That is if Perps knew it was there.

cctv can come to light - you can get a media report of a burglary for instance and the media reports caught on cctv blah blah blah - which then alerts would be opportunists to avoid its gaze or disguise themselves when in shot

 

[oudzuid]

I urge SC ,jK and GF if you are here come out guns blazing because Angleterre and others have thrown so much mud at you this evening that some will stick for sure unless of course you know the case is on the verge of being solved !
Do you want to live with so much mud on your faces for the rest of your lives ...?

@Popejohn3 I do not believe that Mud slinging was taking place here but more of an informed train of thought.
But I do agree with you that they should speak out and defend themselves and I also share @Angleterre view that they are on this forum, not that we should dwell on this as this is their entitlement.