UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #14

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  • #221
... and two people at the back of the car to the right (on road)? Dressed black (dark) with something white (light)?

I can see why you would suggest that, I think the white part is the chrome of the rear bumper/bar reflecting.

Please see the attached advert of a similar vehicle. Note this also doesn’t have the chrome roll bar unlike the google SV vehicle. Was it confirmed it was that owner who came forward? Definitely different Ford Rangers if that is the case. Where’s Major Lang when you need him?

2009 Ford Ranger 3.0 TDCi XLT Thunder Double Cab Crewcab Pickup 4dr | eBay
 
  • #222
Like a car from Germany?

i wondered about Cyprus but they are RHD too.
This Ford Ranger is definitely intriguing. Why would the police appeal for the owner to come forward if they had the reg?
 
  • #223
i wondered about Cyprus but they are RHD too.
This Ford Ranger is definitely intriguing. Why would the police appeal for the owner to come forward if they had the reg?

question is - why would Claudia come out to a vehicle - why wouldn’t they knock at the door and go in? Could it be she was off to his flat/house for the night after the calls to her mum and dad etc? an overnight stay elsewhere - a lift to work in the morning? An argument on Melrose bridge ? She gets back in and then another more heated argument at university road? Or are we thinking it all went down hill on the 18th? It’s obvious that there is activity here on the 18th at 9.01pm - looking at the images it’s highly likely she got into the suv - the images are so poor - it’s still a guessing game as to what happened next. I have played with the footage in light room and there is lots of detail here - I am surprised the police released this footage. Anyone on the footage if they are looking on social media now must be feeling hot under the collar - hope they like prison food.
 
  • #224
i wondered about Cyprus but they are RHD too.
This Ford Ranger is definitely intriguing. Why would the police appeal for the owner to come forward if they had the reg?
It may of been registered as scrapped, it may of been of not been between owners. There is a possibility they didn’t have the full reg. the front car man seems to have white stripes on his trousers - hi viz ones. And white socks - I also look just above his right elbow and you can see skin - same as his hand - is this a tear? Did someone grip his right arm and tear his clothing?
 
  • #225
The reason she isn’t seen on the 19th anywhere is because she took her rucksack, hair straighteners and left to elsewhere - either in the suv or the front car, the only doubts in my mind re this scenario are 1. She was conscientious and wouldn’t get up to mischief on a school (work ) night.
2. When she had the calls to her parents/ her friend - she was walking to work the next day. So my only thinking here must be this was an impromptu rendezvous.
 
  • #226
The reason she isn’t seen on the 19th anywhere is because she took her rucksack, hair straighteners and left to elsewhere - either in the suv or the front car, the only doubts in my mind re this scenario are 1. She was conscientious and wouldn’t get up to mischief on a school (work ) night.
2. When she had the calls to her parents/ her friend - she was walking to work the next day. So my only thinking here must be this was an impromptu rendezvous.
She had a day off the day after ... Friday.
 
  • #227
The police looking at this footage must still have doubts - they have all the access to other cctv, the phone records, witness etc and they cannot be 100% sure she left in one of these vehicles, though they cannot be 100% sure she didn’t. So did she get in one of the vehicles with rucksack and leave her phone at home - and this explains the silver focus taking her to collect it in the morning in a dash to work? Could the location of the man friend be very local so her phone didn’t seem to have moved far? Did he live in Acomb and that’s why the police think Acomb is in the frame? We know her phone for some reason stayed local on the morning of the 19th. The activity the following morning around her house! Having done the deed I’d want to be on a plane to Timbuktu not kicking around the victims address - so what was in there that urgently needed retrieving?
 
  • #228
question is - why would Claudia come out to a vehicle - why wouldn’t they knock at the door and go in? Could it be she was off to his flat/house for the night after the calls to her mum and dad etc? an overnight stay elsewhere - a lift to work in the morning? An argument on Melrose bridge ? She gets back in and then another more heated argument at university road? Or are we thinking it all went down hill on the 18th? It’s obvious that there is activity here on the 18th at 9.01pm - looking at the images it’s highly likely she got into the suv - the images are so poor - it’s still a guessing game as to what happened next. I have played with the footage in light room and there is lots of detail here - I am surprised the police released this footage. Anyone on the footage if they are looking on social media now must be feeling hot under the collar - hope they like prison food.

my views have changed repeatedly on this since I read ML’s blog and previous WS posts.
My opinion as of this evening is that CL gets a quiet knock on the Door around at 8:45 - 9pm before she heads to bed. She gets up off the sofa to answer and is is frog marched
Straight out of the house by known person/s. She enters the SUV vehicle through the rear near side door and sits behind the drivers seat. She is joined by someone else who ensure she stays put. Possibly a little uncomfortable for her but she may feel it relates to a recent event that needs to be discussed. There is someone in her house and has been for a while so she becomes anxious. Looks over her shoulder at the site of vehicle lights behind her hoping to see someone familiar.
Her phone is used to send a text message to JK which will be used as a reason as to why she didn’t check in on her sooner.
Not sure what time the message to JK is sent but does this seem Feasible?
Her house is straightened up, possibly searched, and made to look as if she had headed to work the following morning. The question is, why would her phone remain on? Does it stay at her house or is it taken into the SUV? Phone data needed.
They head off into the night taking her rucksack and the SUV is spotted on bus CCTV.
The fact they have two SUVs of similar appearance would allow one to be a decoy. Police want to trace the owner, one willingly comes forward to claim it was him.... was it? Did they check his vehicle against the CCTV to realise it was in fact not the same? Did the sniffer dogs and forensics draw a blank as a result, possibly.
This would explain how she was removed from the area and no crime scene was made.The magnitude of the situation probably hit home as they were making their way out of Heworth but it was too late.
Quite a risk to pull a move like this next to a pub on a main road. But from seeing McIntyres report the area wasn’t well lit and if they did bump into someone they knew on HR there was no crime committed so could send her back indoors probably a bit shaken but unharmed.
 
  • #229
The police looking at this footage must still have doubts - they have all the access to other cctv, the phone records, witness etc and they cannot be 100% sure she left in one of these vehicles, though they cannot be 100% sure she didn’t. So did she get in one of the vehicles with rucksack and leave her phone at home - and this explains the silver focus taking her to collect it in the morning in a dash to work? Could the location of the man friend be very local so her phone didn’t seem to have moved far? Did he live in Acomb and that’s why the police think Acomb is in the frame? We know her phone for some reason stayed local on the morning of the 19th. The activity the following morning around her house! Having done the deed I’d want to be on a plane to Timbuktu not kicking around the victims address - so what was in there that urgently needed retrieving?
People here are talking of persons wearing high visibility clothing... security perhaps?
Did the NH hire extra security for a busy night ?
 
  • #230
my views have changed repeatedly on this since I read ML’s blog and previous WS posts.
My opinion as of this evening is that CL gets a quiet knock on the Door around at 8:45 - 9pm before she heads to bed. She gets up off the sofa to answer and is is frog marched
Straight out of the house by known person/s. She enters the SUV vehicle through the rear near side door and sits behind the drivers seat. She is joined by someone else who ensure she stays put. Possibly a little uncomfortable for her but she may feel it relates to a recent event that needs to be discussed. There is someone in her house and has been for a while so she becomes anxious. Looks over her shoulder at the site of vehicle lights behind her hoping to see someone familiar.
Her phone is used to send a text message to JK which will be used as a reason as to why she didn’t check in on her sooner.
Not sure what time the message to JK is sent but does this seem Feasible?
Her house is straightened up, possibly searched, and made to look as if she had headed to work the following morning. The question is, why would her phone remain on? Does it stay at her house or is it taken into the SUV? Phone data needed.
They head off into the night taking her rucksack and the SUV is spotted on bus CCTV.
The fact they have two SUVs of similar appearance would allow one to be a decoy. Police want to trace the owner, one willingly comes forward to claim it was him.... was it? Did they check his vehicle against the CCTV to realise it was in fact not the same? Did the sniffer dogs and forensics draw a blank as a result, possibly.
This would explain how she was removed from the area and no crime scene was made.The magnitude of the situation probably hit home as they were making their way out of Heworth but it was too late.
Quite a risk to pull a move like this next to a pub on a main road. But from seeing McIntyres report the area wasn’t well lit and if they did bump into someone they knew on HR there was no crime committed so could send her back indoors probably a bit shaken but unharmed.
With respect if all this happened as you describe What was the motif ?
And may I point out that while all this was going on JK was working in the pub .
 
  • #231
my views have changed repeatedly on this since I read ML’s blog and previous WS posts.
My opinion as of this evening is that CL gets a quiet knock on the Door around at 8:45 - 9pm before she heads to bed. She gets up off the sofa to answer and is is frog marched
Straight out of the house by known person/s. She enters the SUV vehicle through the rear near side door and sits behind the drivers seat. She is joined by someone else who ensure she stays put. Possibly a little uncomfortable for her but she may feel it relates to a recent event that needs to be discussed. There is someone in her house and has been for a while so she becomes anxious. Looks over her shoulder at the site of vehicle lights behind her hoping to see someone familiar.
Her phone is used to send a text message to JK which will be used as a reason as to why she didn’t check in on her sooner.
Not sure what time the message to JK is sent but does this seem Feasible?
Her house is straightened up, possibly searched, and made to look as if she had headed to work the following morning. The question is, why would her phone remain on? Does it stay at her house or is it taken into the SUV? Phone data needed.
They head off into the night taking her rucksack and the SUV is spotted on bus CCTV.
The fact they have two SUVs of similar appearance would allow one to be a decoy. Police want to trace the owner, one willingly comes forward to claim it was him.... was it? Did they check his vehicle against the CCTV to realise it was in fact not the same? Did the sniffer dogs and forensics draw a blank as a result, possibly.
This would explain how she was removed from the area and no crime scene was made.The magnitude of the situation probably hit home as they were making their way out of Heworth but it was too late.
Quite a risk to pull a move like this next to a pub on a main road. But from seeing McIntyres report the area wasn’t well lit and if they did bump into someone they knew on HR there was no crime committed so could send her back indoors probably a bit shaken but unharmed.
Obviously I cannot 100% say it didn’t happen as you say above, however, frog marching I cannot see it. Major Lang’s blog does contain inaccuracies - his last theory involved the alley and Heworth place - it’s obvious that probsbly didn’t happen as it seems she left at 9.01pm. When I started researching the case - I did my own research - yes I’ve looked through the majors blog, however I’ve done my own research. The problem with looking at someone’s else’s view and relying on it thinking it’s gospel - is it can lead you down the wrong alley. In my mind two things are clear 1. Nothing happened in her house, 2.when she left her house she was happy and thinking she would be attending work on the 19th taking her rucksack with her. I believe she sent the text to Jk - why wouldn’t she?
 
  • #232
Obviously I cannot 100% say it didn’t happen as you say above, however, frog marching I cannot see it. Major Lang’s blog does contain inaccuracies - his last theory involved the alley and Heworth place - it’s obvious that probsbly didn’t happen as it seems she left at 9.01pm. When I started researching the case - I did my own research - yes I’ve looked through the majors blog, however I’ve done my own research. The problem with looking at someone’s else’s view and relying on it thinking it’s gospel - is it can lead you down the wrong alley. In my mind two things are clear 1. Nothing happened in her house, 2.when she left her house she was happy and thinking she would be attending work on the 19th taking her rucksack with her. I believe she sent the text to Jk - why wouldn’t she?

Perhaps someone she knew reasonably well but had a dark side knocked on her door and caught her off guard with a “ stick your shoes on for a minute and come next door” (indicating the pub) she may not have thought twice. She took her slippers off, perhaps left her phone on the sofa as she was going to be gone for a few minutes, grabbed her keys but ended up in the SUV not the pub.

Also if the report of her text message is correct, look at the use of language and the fact the x is omitted. Completely different to the short slangy type of text she sent to Sammons.

I also thought about her being attacked at home and then her body transferred out of the back door to the NH room up the metal staircase.
Again feasible but I would have thought GF would need to be in on it for access to the keys etc
I wondered if the Ford Focus was someone returning to the NH to clear up and move a body. They would have gone home as usual on weds so as not to raise questions from their partner but had an early start on the Thursday. Who did report the bed being removed from the NH? That was never clear.

anyway I still think the SUV and mystery car require more examination. The SUV owner was almost too eager to come immediately forward.....
 
  • #233
Perhaps someone she knew reasonably well but had a dark side knocked on her door and caught her off guard with a “ stick your shoes on for a minute and come next door” (indicating the pub) she may not have thought twice. She took her slippers off, perhaps left her phone on the sofa as she was going to be gone for a few minutes, grabbed her keys but ended up in the SUV not the pub.

Also if the report of her text message is correct, look at the use of language and the fact the x is omitted. Completely different to the short slangy type of text she sent to Sammons.

I also thought about her being attacked at home and then her body transferred out of the back door to the NH room up the metal staircase.
Again feasible but I would have thought GF would need to be in on it for access to the keys etc
I wondered if the Ford Focus was someone returning to the NH to clear up and move a body. They would have gone home as usual on weds so as not to raise questions from their partner but had an early start on the Thursday. Who did report the bed being removed from the NH? That was never clear.

anyway I still think the SUV and mystery car require more examination. The SUV owner was almost too eager to come immediately forward.....
Surely the natural action would be to park in the nags car park and walk down if you were inviting her for a drink? I suspect GF of at least knowledge as I do Jk & SC. “When we get her back she won’t be the same” “we will need to put her back together” “dead before she hit the ground” “we can talk about her in the past tense” and many other quotes make me curious about what the community does know. Depends wether you consider it a planned event or an accidental jealous moment. To be fair to the investigation you are best placed to consider both and remain open minded.
 
  • #234
Pink shirt?
Could be white, I remember seeing a pretty clear pic of white shirt man before, quite young looking
 
  • #235
Perhaps someone she knew reasonably well but had a dark side knocked on her door and caught her off guard with a “ stick your shoes on for a minute and come next door” (indicating the pub) she may not have thought twice. She took her slippers off, perhaps left her phone on the sofa as she was going to be gone for a few minutes, grabbed her keys but ended up in the SUV not the pub.

Also if the report of her text message is correct, look at the use of language and the fact the x is omitted. Completely different to the short slangy type of text she sent to Sammons.

I also thought about her being attacked at home and then her body transferred out of the back door to the NH room up the metal staircase.
Again feasible but I would have thought GF would need to be in on it for access to the keys etc
I wondered if the Ford Focus was someone returning to the NH to clear up and move a body. They would have gone home as usual on weds so as not to raise questions from their partner but had an early start on the Thursday. Who did report the bed being removed from the NH? That was never clear.

anyway I still think the SUV and mystery car require more examination. The SUV owner was almost too eager to come immediately forward.....
I think the suv owner must have had a pretty decent reason to be there if the police discounted his involvement
 
  • #236
I think the suv owner must have had a pretty decent reason to be there if the police discounted his involvement

I think you have repeatedly missed the point I am making. The Ford rangers are different. Did the owner with an alibi come forward and suggest it was him?l when in fact it was the other Ford Ranger driver?

The other vehicle is clearly different and does not have to chrome roll bar and window tints.
 
  • #237
I think you have repeatedly missed the point I am making. The Ford rangers are different. Did the owner with an alibi come forward and suggest it was him?l when in fact it was the other Ford Ranger driver?

The other vehicle is clearly different and does not have to chrome roll bar and window tints.
Wouldn't the police know what car he drives then, and say they are looking for other car owner
 
  • #238
Surely the natural action would be to park in the nags car park and walk down if you were inviting her for a drink? I suspect GF of at least knowledge as I do Jk & SC. “When we get her back she won’t be the same” “we will need to put her back together” “dead before she hit the ground” “we can talk about her in the past tense” and many other quotes make me curious about what the community does know. Depends wether you consider it a planned event or an accidental jealous moment. To be fair to the investigation you are best placed to consider both and remain open minded.

Yes it would be the natural reaction if she was being invited for a drink. We know she wasn’t, it was a reason to get her out of the house unaware and then get her into the vehicle.
I believe it was pre-meditated but with luck on their side. The only reason to really involve multiple people in her disappearance would be if she was blackmailing a group and they all benefited from her going missing. Other than that it would be too risky to assume people will keep stum. CL would have to have been deeply unpopular which I get the impression wasn’t the case.
 
  • #239
Wouldn't the police know what car he drives then, and say they are looking for other car owner

Thats kind of the point I am making, they clearly couldn’t make out the reg and if someone claiming to own that vehicle, presents a vehicle of the same description to them with a reason to be in the area would they necessarily have cross checked with CCTV to make sure it was the same? Let’s face it the NYP haven’t disclosed a lot of information that has been found by this forum. There are a lot of question marks about their conduct in the search.

I admit this theory is based on the fact the other SUV on google SV was suggested as being one and the same as Wednesday evening vehicle. It may be that information was wrong which contradicts all my earlier points
 
  • #240
I would agree that the police investigation has been at best very poor, I just thought something potentially so important would have been checked out, but with the n y p i suppose nothing is a given
 
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