UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #3

[moonsafari]

I have updated my Blog and have also included a "Time and Date of Update" for those that have already read this and need to check if there is any new info.

What I am finding is that there are many excellent accounts and descriptions of what may have happened on here but due to the length of the threads and that we are now onto thread #3 that we may miss stuff or go over things more than once.

To bring information together I have placed it all here:

Claudia Lawrence-Who Took Her? Who was She?


More importantly, when updating and reviewing today. There were some facts that stood out from the lead up to the arrests in 2014.
Here is that summary for your consideration:

Summarising the lead up to and the arrests

It is only when you look at how the police behaved over a concentrated period of time that you gain clues to what they are actualy doing and thinking.

We appreciate that the Police have to protect evidence for future prosecution but here is what we know so far:

2014

Police discover new fingerprint evidence and possible DNA from Claudias house

They rule out Michael Snelling from their enquiries

They start to look at any evidence that Taxi drivers can provide

Pail Harris, landlord of the Acomb is arrested following his wife providing new evidence to Police, Paul is considered for charges regarding “perverting the course of Justice” It is clear here that he has not provided police with a full account of what he knew.

The evening CCTV footage appears to implicate Alistair Cooper and police drop any charges against Paul Harris after he provides them with helpful information. The footage sparks a search of the alleyway and is likely to have come from CCTV cameras showing footage not revealed to the public.

The search of Alleyway, the help from Paul Harris and the earlier arrest of Alistair Cooper add to the evidence build to enable the Police to then arrest Peter Ruane, Shane Ruane, his Brother and David Robinson.

We know that Shane was not a regular at the Nags Head and so he is implicated either because he was Pete Ruanes brother and assisted in some way, perhaps as a Locksmith?
Did he allow the perps to access Claudias house after the initial Police searcha dn to remove key evidence?
We also know that David Robinson, whilst a regular at The Nags Head, used to drink in the sports bar area and away from Claudia and her friends.

This tells us that Paul Harris, the CCTV footage and the alleyway search helped to build a case towrds the arrest of the other 3.

We know that the Nags Head was free of B&B guests that night and the live in Chef was on holiday and a likely lock in that would involve more than just Claudia and her friends but any that were also in the sports bar.

Due to the individuals then playing their cards close to their chests the Police investigation was hampered to where we are today.

What we are now dealing with is either a very sophisticated set up or some very clear culprits that are currently beyond the realms of justice.

Remember I left 6 months before CL disappeared, a lot can change friendship group dynamics wise in that time... Q is what and why??

 

[moonsafari]

I have updated my Blog and have also included a "Time and Date of Update" for those that have already read this and need to check if there is any new info.

What I am finding is that there are many excellent accounts and descriptions of what may have happened on here but due to the length of the threads and that we are now onto thread #3 that we may miss stuff or go over things more than once.

To bring information together I have placed it all here:

Claudia Lawrence-Who Took Her? Who was She?


More importantly, when updating and reviewing today. There were some facts that stood out from the lead up to the arrests in 2014.
Here is that summary for your consideration:

Summarising the lead up to and the arrests

It is only when you look at how the police behaved over a concentrated period of time that you gain clues to what they are actualy doing and thinking.

We appreciate that the Police have to protect evidence for future prosecution but here is what we know so far:

2014

Police discover new fingerprint evidence and possible DNA from Claudias house

They rule out Michael Snelling from their enquiries

They start to look at any evidence that Taxi drivers can provide

Pail Harris, landlord of the Acomb is arrested following his wife providing new evidence to Police, Paul is considered for charges regarding “perverting the course of Justice” It is clear here that he has not provided police with a full account of what he knew.

The evening CCTV footage appears to implicate Alistair Cooper and police drop any charges against Paul Harris after he provides them with helpful information. The footage sparks a search of the alleyway and is likely to have come from CCTV cameras showing footage not revealed to the public.

The search of Alleyway, the help from Paul Harris and the earlier arrest of Alistair Cooper add to the evidence build to enable the Police to then arrest Peter Ruane, Shane Ruane, his Brother and David Robinson.

We know that Shane was not a regular at the Nags Head and so he is implicated either because he was Pete Ruanes brother and assisted in some way, perhaps as a Locksmith?
Did he allow the perps to access Claudias house after the initial Police searcha dn to remove key evidence?
We also know that David Robinson, whilst a regular at The Nags Head, used to drink in the sports bar area and away from Claudia and her friends.

This tells us that Paul Harris, the CCTV footage and the alleyway search helped to build a case towrds the arrest of the other 3.

We know that the Nags Head was free of B&B guests that night and the live in Chef was on holiday and a likely lock in that would involve more than just Claudia and her friends but any that were also in the sports bar.

Due to the individuals then playing their cards close to their chests the Police investigation was hampered to where we are today.

What we are now dealing with is either a very sophisticated set up or some very clear culprits that are currently beyond the realms of justice.

Source for ruling out Snelling?

 

[Yozzer]

Remember I left 6 months before CL disappeared, a lot can change friendship group dynamics wise in that time... Q is what and why??

Do you know who replaced you?

 

[MajorLang]

There has been discussion in the past on this site about the feasibility of using a domestic wheelie bin for removal.
Without commenting on this specific live case, check out the video (the suggestion of why police are interested is obvious). The missing woman in this case is 5ft 11ins.

Suspect identified in hunt for killer

This would fit. Lindsay as stated was 5 ft 11, quite tall and was a size 10 minimum, more likely a 12. Claudia was a size 8 and 5 ft 6 inches and so would fit into what looks to be a standard household wheelie bin.

 

[MajorLang]

Source for ruling out Snelling?

@moonsafari
Source for ruling out:

Snelling was arrested in May 2014 and released without charge from bail 6 months later. There was no referral to CPS. However, in 2015 the 4 are arrested and referred to CPS. If Snelling was a suspect, why did they release snelling and not include him in the arrests and referral to CPS along with others?


From Timeline

Tuesday 13th May

Michael Snelling (59) is arrested. He was known to provide Claudia with lifts to work occasionally as he worked at the University in one of the departments. His house in York was searched along with his elderly mothers house in North Shields, Tyne and Wear. He was released on bail and on Monday 17th November he was released without charge.

If we are to assume that Snelling is still a suspect then we should also think the same of Paul Harris and much of the activity around CL house on the evening and morning, If this was not snelling but other Perps, why would they cover for him if they knew it was him and they could clear their name?

You may have known him from your time at Nags-Did he have some hold over the others arrested or was he a threatening character?

 

[MajorLang]

Remember I left 6 months before CL disappeared, a lot can change friendship group dynamics wise in that time... Q is what and why??

@moonsafari Thanks for comment.
Are you suggesting that Shane may have become a regular and Robinson may have joined the friendship group that Claudia was part of?
I am just trying to better understand your comment.

 

[MajorLang]

Source for ruling out Snelling?

And so my learnings today kindly prompted by @moonsafari were that when I quote something, it should be supported by fact.
I always try to do this but sometimes get carried away with assumption and a best guess of what may have happened.
Perhaps we should all be mindful of this and when making comments we should back these up with factual evidence.

What are Sleuths thoughts here?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

And so my learnings today kindly prompted by @moonsafari were that when I quote something, it should be supported by fact.
I always try to do this but sometimes get carried away with assumption and a best guess of what may have happened.
Perhaps we should all be mindful of this and when making comments we should back these up with factual evidence.

What are Sleuths thoughts here?

I find the MOOs etc irritating but they are handy for clarifying that you dont have actual facts, just a very strong suspicion.

 

[Yozzer]

And so my learnings today kindly prompted by @moonsafari were that when I quote something, it should be supported by fact.
I always try to do this but sometimes get carried away with assumption and a best guess of what may have happened.
Perhaps we should all be mindful of this and when making comments we should back these up with factual evidence.

What are Sleuths thoughts here?

I think we have a fairly regular group of contributors...I am sure there are silent browsers too....so some contributors probably assume there is a shared level of knowledge gained via the rich and diverse observations and research generously shared on this forum. For this reason, some comments may appear to be unsubstantiated when actually, they have been evidenced, discussed and trawled over many times and there may be a shared assumption that there is no need to retrieve the original quote. I usually try to find the evidence so people understand my point of view. But when it's late at night & I'm tired, maybe not.

Sometimes a new contributor resurrects a point which has already been analysed at length. I see no harm in that point being reconsidered. Firstly, I don't own the site so who am I etc.. Also, we all see things differently and someone may notice a detail which has never been mentioned before. Some of us are good with words, images, or technology while others may have local knowledge. Pooling our knowledge and views is a worthwhile exercise.

Having once belonged to another popular forum where reasoned discussion of this particular case was regularly stifled by the thought police (and I don't mean forum staff) I have to say that Websleuths is like a breath of fresh air. Long may it continue and let's hope this case is cracked soon.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Have any of you noticed how many views this thread has had?

 

[Yozzer]

Have any of you noticed how many views this thread has had?

No. Do tell!
I just found 11700 for thread 3. That's amazing

 

[Popejohn3]

No. Do tell!
I just found 11700 for thread 3. That's amazing

Do these views include robots?
And how many views each robot do per hour / day ?

 

[Yozzer]

Do these views include robots?
And how many views each robot do per hour / day ?

You would have to ask Websleuths.

 

[MajorLang]

Do these views include robots?
And how many views each robot do per hour / day ?

Most websites including this one are able to avoid Bots. They are heavily penetration tested on a regular basis as if not Bots can bring a site down. Part of the work being done over the weekend is likely part of this maintenance. We should take this data as meaning that we are averaging around 403 views per day.

 

[moonsafari]

Do you know who replaced you?

No but a college friend worked with me at the Nag's for a while, not yet mentioned as I believe she may have left by the time Claudia disappeared and I reserve the right to not name her outright

 

[Popejohn3]

No but a college friend worked with me at the Nag's for a while, not yet mentioned as I believe she may have left by the time Claudia disappeared and I reserve the right to not name her outright

In which case she could well be here listening and sharing info

 

[MajorLang]

In which case she could well be here listening and sharing info

PJ3 @moonsafari is correct in not naming. If you look on Ray Websters (Chefs) FB page you may get a clue to who the Nags staff could be.

 

[Popejohn3]

PJ3 @moonsafari is correct in not naming. If you look on Ray Websters (Chefs) FB page you may get a clue to who the Nags staff could be.

Nh people like everyone else ,probably are in the dark as to who harmed Claudia.
They might have suspicions but that’s all.
Police want facts or how to get them .

 

[HongKongPhooey]

No. Do tell!
I just found 11700 for thread 3. That's amazing

Isnt it?

11,906 now

 

[Mrs Marple 2]

Hi, I'm new to this thread and have read lots of the posts and views with interest. Ive thought about this case a lot over the past few years and have often wondered if the police have investigated and followed up on information provided by psychics apart from R Ballard. I read re the McCann case that police originally requested info provided by psychics not to be passed onto them by Crimestoppers