UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[Yozzer]

I've just considered something else relating to this...
If we know for certain that Claudia and her Mother spoke on the evening of the 18th March, was the call made to Claudia's home phone or mobile phone?
If it was to her mobile phone, then it's possible that Claudia never went home from work on 18th March?

Claudia Lawrence investigation review timeline - North Yorkshire Police
Some links on the right hand toolbar still seem to work.

 

[MajorLang]

Can I ask what everyone's thoughts are on possible reasons for CL going missing are.
Jealousy? Revenge? Accident? Something else?
Would be interesting to know what angles we are all coming at this from.

Claudia was watching TV somewhere and possible with someone on the evening of 18 March. At that point not believing she was in any danger.
Her silence after talking to her mum was not unusual.
Her text to J-K was certainly suspect as no "x" at end which is Claudia's usual style.

That suggests to me that she didn't send it and so she wasn't alone.
The text from Cyprus, I am convinced police quoted Cyprus time (21:12) rather than GMT (19:12) as that conversation was in flow and then there was over a two hour gap.

What we know is that the police were very interested in the person in shadows morning and evening and the car breaking the next morning.
I believe that Police will have far more CCTV footage and also the Registration plate of the cars but are not sharing as they have to preserve prosecution evidence.

The arrests came after searching the alleyway and discovering more DNA and prints at Claudias house.

The first arrested probably led to 3 more arrests and within the 4 I think we have 2 sets of people.
I think that there is also one who has not been arrested that should have, related to one of 4.

It's ok to have theories but I am for staying close to what the police discovered re a possible theory. Police got it wrong first time around but Malyn was very smart and he knew who did it.
I believe that the Nags Head was involved, one of the B and B rooms as Ray the Chef was away-The only room occupant at that time.
I also believe something was planned, not necessarily murder but perhaps some "party games" at the Nags that night.
Either to lure Claudia there or just for some fun.
Something could have gone wrong, jealousy or a game got out of hand.

I also believe that there has been more than one "fit Up" attempt.
The work colleague, declaring a new boyfriend-"Fit Up"
The people arguing at a car near university-"distraction away from Perps and to make it to appear to be a stranger"

The phone switch of was by the Perp in their lunch break that day. Realising they had her phone.
The phone had crucial evidence on it and so was retained as were the hair straighteners.

This crime involved a small group of people of both genders. Whilst the person in the shadows may not have been a Perp, they may have been calling on Claudia and annoyed or even concerned not to find her-perhaps a friend or client.

I believe that George Foreman and Suzy Cooper are both innocent-I'm not going to say the same about anyone else but this doesn't mean that by excluding names from being innocent that they were guilty.
Both Suzy and George moved from the immediate area after Claudia went missing.

Ray the chef was very unhappy when he returned to the Nags as he probably also had his suspicions.

It's also possible that innocent people may have an idea of who the Perps are and may have also alerted the police to this-That also does not suggest that the two named above have provided information to the police.

I think that if we stray too far from The Nags Head and more than half a mile from Heworth Road then we are doing any chance of solving this crime and injustice.

My final thoughts are that whilst the Peter and Joan want closure, they may not wish to hear what Claudia's final outcome, this may not be a good one for them to remember her by.

"It was Miss Scarlett, she used the wire from the hair straighteners. It wasn't in the drawing room but possibly a bedroom or bathroom"

I used to love playing Cluedo.

 

[Popejohn3]

I've just considered something else relating to this...
If we know for certain that Claudia and her Mother spoke on the evening of the 18th March, was the call made to Claudia's home phone or mobile phone?
If it was to her mobile phone, then it's possible that Claudia never went home from work on 18th March?

We don’t know if she had a landline or not.
What kind of records did her landline company keep ?
You can play games by giving new people in your life ONLY your landline... if she had one that is !

 

[x_caz_x]

We don’t know if she had a landline or not.
What kind of records did her landline company keep ?
You can play games by giving new people in your life ONLY your landline... if she had one that is !

Very good point!
So the conversation with her Mother was via her mobile phone?

Although they may have been discussing a tv programme (which was on tv at that time), doesn't mean that Claudia was watching it too, does it? Unless the conversation between her and her Mother suggests otherwise?

 

[Yozzer]

@MajorLang
The text from Cyprus, I am convinced police quoted Cyprus time (21:12) rather than GMT (19:12) as that conversation was in flow and then there was over a two hour gap.

Claudia Lawrence uses her telephone
Re Cyprus: It says here '21.12 last text received on Claudia's phone' .

 

[MajorLang]

Very good point!
So the conversation with her Mother was via her mobile phone?

Although they may have been discussing a tv programme (which was on tv at that time), doesn't mean that Claudia was watching it too, does it? Unless the conversation between her and her Mother suggests otherwise?

They discussed the programme as a family friend lived in the town of Harrogate. The programme was about Harrogate that night
Joan could hear the programme was on in the background
Joan had rang Claudia as she wanted Claudia to recommend a taxi firm to friends.
Claudia and Joan has already spoken that afternoon as Claudia walked home and this was an unscheduled call.

 

[MajorLang]

Claudia Lawrence uses her telephone
Re Cyprus: It says here '21.12 last text received on Claudia's phone' .

I believe the text was at 19:12 UK time
Reason:

Their text conversation was in flow around 18:50 and would have stopped for 2 hours if 21:12 was correct. I have analysed Steve and Claudia's conversation and previous messages were only 17 minutes apart.
Claudia was also texting others at same time, a friend from Malton, Liz

 

[x_caz_x]

I believe the text was at 19:12 UK time
Reason:

Their text conversation was in flow around 18:50 and would have stopped for 2 hours if 21:12 was correct. I have analysed Steve and Claudia's conversation and previous messages were only 17 minutes apart.
Claudia was also texting others at same time, a friend from Malton, Liz

Your theory sounds more plausible.

 

[Yozzer]

Very good point!
So the conversation with her Mother was via her mobile phone?

Although they may have been discussing a tv programme (which was on tv at that time), doesn't mean that Claudia was watching it too, does it? Unless the conversation between her and her Mother suggests otherwise?

I think it was about Harrogate and they talked about specifics that were on the programme as it was being broadcast.

 

[MajorLang]

We don’t know if she had a landline or not.
What kind of records did her landline company keep ?
You can play games by giving new people in your life ONLY your landline... if she had one that is !

If I was a friend or relative of Claudia's I would contact her on her mobile.
She was a prolific texted, she always had her phone with her so you ring her in that.

 

[Yozzer]

The text from Cyprus, I am convinced police quoted Cyprus time (21:12) rather than GMT (19:12) as that conversation was in flow and then there was over a two hour gap.

Hi Major. We have similar views on nearly all aspects of this case with few differences of opinion such as this one:
Your arguing of the Cyprus call being earlier is reasonable yet it has been reported by a number of sources inc NYP that 21.12 was when she received the text from SS. I don't think a gap in texting means anything other than SS being busy doing something else e.g. in a bar having a drink with friends or watching a football match in Cyprus after which he looks at his phone and replies just after 11pm. Don't forget, she had already hinted that the planned trip was looking unlikely now due to the cost of flights so it wasn't really a conversation anymore.

Regardless of which version is correct, the key to this text could be that its content was read by a jealous lover and misinterpreted as disloyalty, sparking a major argument. We know there was no more airtime on her phone after this text. We also know that 2 suspicious vehicles were parked close to her home around this time, about which police have made appeals. What we don't know is where she was at that time. If she was in Heworth Road, there are 3 possible properties in which she could reasonably have been located.

 

[Popejohn3]

If I was a friend or relative of Claudia's I would contact her on her mobile.
She was a prolific texted, she always had her phone with her so you ring her in that.

It would be a bit awkward if a new person rings you and you are with someone else...maybe ?

 

[Yozzer]

It would be a bit awkward if a new person rings you and you are with someone else...maybe ?

It has been mooted on here that there may have been a burner phone but who knows.

 

[Popejohn3]

Claudia was watching TV somewhere and possible with someone on the evening of 18 March. At that point not believing she was in any danger.
Her silence after talking to her mum was not unusual.
Her text to J-K was certainly suspect as no "x" at end which is Claudia's usual style.

That suggests to me that she didn't send it and so she wasn't alone.
The text from Cyprus, I am convinced police quoted Cyprus time (21:12) rather than GMT (19:12) as that conversation was in flow and then there was over a two hour gap.

What we know is that the police were very interested in the person in shadows morning and evening and the car breaking the next morning.
I believe that Police will have far more CCTV footage and also the Registration plate of the cars but are not sharing as they have to preserve prosecution evidence.

The arrests came after searching the alleyway and discovering more DNA and prints at Claudias house.

The first arrested probably led to 3 more arrests and within the 4 I think we have 2 sets of people.
I think that there is also one who has not been arrested that should have, related to one of 4.

It's ok to have theories but I am for staying close to what the police discovered re a possible theory. Police got it wrong first time around but Malyn was very smart and he knew who did it.
I believe that the Nags Head was involved, one of the B and B rooms as Ray the Chef was away-The only room occupant at that time.
I also believe something was planned, not necessarily murder but perhaps some "party games" at the Nags that night.
Either to lure Claudia there or just for some fun.
Something could have gone wrong, jealousy or a game got out of hand.

I also believe that there has been more than one "fit Up" attempt.
The work colleague, declaring a new boyfriend-"Fit Up"
The people arguing at a car near university-"distraction away from Perps and to make it to appear to be a stranger"

The phone switch of was by the Perp in their lunch break that day. Realising they had her phone.
The phone had crucial evidence on it and so was retained as were the hair straighteners.

This crime involved a small group of people of both genders. Whilst the person in the shadows may not have been a Perp, they may have been calling on Claudia and annoyed or even concerned not to find her-perhaps a friend or client.

I believe that George Foreman and Suzy Cooper are both innocent-I'm not going to say the same about anyone else but this doesn't mean that by excluding names from being innocent that they were guilty.
Both Suzy and George moved from the immediate area after Claudia went missing.

Ray the chef was very unhappy when he returned to the Nags as he probably also had his suspicions.

It's also possible that innocent people may have an idea of who the Perps are and may have also alerted the police to this-That also does not suggest that the two named above have provided information to the police.

I think that if we stray too far from The Nags Head and more than half a mile from Heworth Road then we are doing any chance of solving this crime and injustice.

My final thoughts are that whilst the Peter and Joan want closure, they may not wish to hear what Claudia's final outcome, this may not be a good one for them to remember her by.

"It was Miss Scarlett, she used the wire from the hair straighteners. It wasn't in the drawing room but possibly a bedroom or bathroom"

I used to love playing Cluedo.

I like the post but ‘client ‘?

 

[Yozzer]

If the timing of this cctv is correct, the male was seen walking around in the alley at 5.50 on Thursday 19th March 2009
New CCTV released in hunt for Claudia

8 minutes after the silver Ford Focus was seen to break outside her house at 5.42.
Ford focus hatchback car - Claudia Lawrence

This is a compelling case for the Ford driver and the alley man being one and the same person.

 

[MajorLang]

Hi Major. We have similar views on nearly all aspects of this case with few differences of opinion such as this one:
Your arguing of the Cyprus call being earlier is reasonable yet it has been reported by a number of sources inc NYP that 21.12 was when she received the text from SS. I don't think a gap in texting means anything other than SS being busy doing something else e.g. in a bar having a drink with friends or watching a football match in Cyprus after which he looks at his phone and replies just after 11pm. Don't forget, she had already hinted that the planned trip was looking unlikely now due to the cost of flights so it wasn't really a conversation anymore.

Regardless of which version is correct, the key to this text could be that its content was read by a jealous lover and misinterpreted as disloyalty, sparking a major argument. We know there was no more airtime on her phone after this text. We also know that 2 suspicious vehicles were parked close to her home around this time, about which police have made appeals. What we don't know is where she was at that time. If she was in Heworth Road, there are 3 possible properties in which she could reasonably have been located.

4 if you include her own home and the Nags Head Based Upon home ownership of Lord of the Manor.
Was Dark person calling at 2 of them-Hers and 1 in Heworth Place, returning to The Nags?

 

[x_caz_x]

It would be a bit awkward if a new person rings you and you are with someone else...maybe ?

I have just seen pictures of the left over hair dye from when the police went into CL's home. If this was from her doing her own hair (but of course possible she was doing someone elses hair), surely she would have used the straighteners once this was done? Shame we cannot pinpoint a day the dye was being used.

 

[MajorLang]

Hi Major. We have similar views on nearly all aspects of this case with few differences of opinion such as this one:
Your arguing of the Cyprus call being earlier is reasonable yet it has been reported by a number of sources inc NYP that 21.12 was when she received the text from SS. I don't think a gap in texting means anything other than SS being busy doing something else e.g. in a bar having a drink with friends or watching a football match in Cyprus after which he looks at his phone and replies just after 11pm. Don't forget, she had already hinted that the planned trip was looking unlikely now due to the cost of flights so it wasn't really a conversation anymore.

Regardless of which version is correct, the key to this text could be that its content was read by a jealous lover and misinterpreted as disloyalty, sparking a major argument. We know there was no more airtime on her phone after this text. We also know that 2 suspicious vehicles were parked close to her home around this time, about which police have made appeals. What we don't know is where she was at that time. If she was in Heworth Road, there are 3 possible properties in which she could reasonably have been located.

Yes
As I am based in another time zone to UK, when I say "I sent a text to Harry at 21:12," I mean the zone I am in.

 

[Popejohn3]

Very good point!
So the conversation with her Mother was via her mobile phone?

Although they may have been discussing a tv programme (which was on tv at that time), doesn't mean that Claudia was watching it too, does it? Unless the conversation between her and her Mother suggests otherwise?

I believe her mother was able to hear the programme from / through Claudia’s phone.
You know what’s it like when you ring someone the bag ground comes out too loud and clear

 

[Yozzer]

Yes
As I am based in another time zone to UK, when I say "I sent a text to Harry at 21:12," I mean the zone I am in.

Yes but my understanding is that the police have been able to establish from text traffic when the text was received, rather than going by SS's word.
Let's agree to differ