MajorLang
Former Member
Apparently Claudia and Jen, possibly others went into town after closing
UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2
- Thread starter KateB
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A friend of a daughter of one mentioned lover found it in a car therefore ( if true ) happened years before.
Dammed if you do dammed if you don’t ... it would have had to be shown to police
Sorry not good at copying and pasting.
But if you type ...on google ....complex and mysterious relationship of cl .... you’ll get it
MajorLang
Former Member
Oh yes his Faux Pa
Thanks
Mattress story ?
Someone on thread #1 mentioned that Claudia parked her Corsa along Heworth Place, near The Limes. I guess stalker man may have walked past the back of Claudia's house to check whether her car had been repaired yet. And another thing, why hàve the police said nothing about her coat? Did she take her long waterproof coat or did she take her short jacket with buttons ?
MajorLang
Former Member
What do car and mattress have to do with one another?
I thought that her little Corsa would be too small to accommodate
a mattress?
MajorLang
Former Member
Is this the Mattress taken from Nags Head for DNA analysis.
Uh that would be an unenviable task
MajorLang
Former Member
I can only assume that as they gave credibility to the sightings the following morning that it was her short white jacket as reported person on both occasions wearing a short jacket and was depicted wearing one in crime reconstructions on Crimewatch
Last edited:
MajorLang
Former Member
The weather forecast for that day in York was Dry
moonsafari
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Claudia update:
The ten year anniversary of Claudia's disappearance brought with it renewed interest in the still unsolved North Yorkshire murder mystery, not to mention new discussion: some of it a refresher of ideas already covered, some of it topics entirely new or at least more explicitly phrased elaborations on previously discussed theories, questions, and the like.
I think the timeline most agreed upon: the one suggesting Claudia was asleep at her house by 21.30 on March 18th 2009 and is why she didn't reply to her later texts that evening; entirely plausible had she stayed out drinking late the night before, and indeed this jived with the scene her father reportedly found at the house on Thursday evening, is that Claudia was abducted on her way to work from her own home on the Thursday morning, March 19th. Family have disputed some witness accounts though, based on presumably detailed review of exactly what was described. Is it possible that one or more witnesses turned out to be some of the main POI?
If Claudia met with her abductor and probable murderer at some point before or after her last known texts and phonecalls made in the evening on March 18th 2009, myriad possibilities abound, bringing with them their own set of puzzles and questions.
The alleyway behind Claudia's house is as potentially relevant as it is seemingly obscured. No detailed aerial photo evidence of the alleyway pre-2013 review exists online, according to Google. One photo uploaded and presumably taken in 2015 shows that the alley path ends a couple of doors down from Claudia's house. Adjacent and opposite to it as revealed on Websleuths is the back garden of 15 Heworth Place, once owned by suspect Pete Ruane's father, which was more or less open plan with Claudia's and two neighbouring ones. Was the layout the same in 2009? The shrubbery at the end of Heworth Place culdesac through to towards the Nag's Head car park as evidenced by Google maps has varied in density dramatically over time. Thick with bushes in 2008, by October 2009 it had been stripped bare and cleared, hopefully because the area had been forensically searched by investigators. If not, who did the work and who said they could do so? I do think that certain abnormalities in the investigation we see, including some which might point to police incompetence, are intended as a gotcha, but there is surely a reason for that.
One would assume that the most likely reason is in order to distract from a mistake or error of judgement that police really don't want us to notice, including embarrassment about being led down a garden path or two in the early days of the investigation by the very people they would eventually strongly suspect.
At first, police focused on the 'Rogue's Gallery' of men Claudia allegedly had vague relationships with. Perhaps some of them were at the pub the evening of March 18th. It bears thinking about the timing. Why then? If the RG aren't involved and were say attending a sporting event being shown at the pub that night and the perps knew them so knew they would attend said match/game, could they have designated then as the night Claudia went missing to implicate RG amongst others? And when so many people are implicated at once, the chance that a local/s amongst them are responsible is high.
Limes Court CCTV. If the man/men filmed are at least in part responsible for whatever happened to Claudia, what are the possibilities? I am less convinced than ML that the CCTV men had nothing to do with her disappearance, but it is quite plausible. Evening man could be checking for lights at her house before knocking at the front door or her car, retrieving/replacing a key or similar. Morning man ditto, the passerby in the evening footage could be coincidental or an accomplice. The possible third person could be looking out for people walking up LC and HP and of course morning and evening man could potentially be doing the same.
Consider though that evening and night man are involved in Claudia's disappearance, knowingly or not at the time, as a misdirecting force in the context of the CCTV. This would imply both knowledge about and potentially access to the LC cameras and the quality of footage they recorded. So too that Claudia's disappearance was a group effort. It's also not beyond the realm of possibility that York Uni and St John contracted out to the same or affiliated security firms for their halls of residence/grounds patrol staff and that those companies might have contracts with the council and even bars in the city centre too, which could be significant. Involved but unaware of the CCTV the possibilities are the same: unknown person/s enters the property--whether by door, skylight or window--stakes out, or retrieves something from nearby Claudia's house. Alternatively she is at some point that night coaxed or voluntary walks outside, perhaps to a car.
As per my post about Claudia's disappearance and my experience working at the Nag's, I go into some detail about the Ford Focus but do not muse outright that perhaps Claudia was the driver of that car, in the footage we see at least, and that perhaps she was convinced that night that her Corsa was a write-off and she needed a new one, perhaps offered to her by someone. I do think that Claudia would have been wary about driving a car she wasn't insured on though, and this scenario given the CCTV would imply she spent the night at someone else's house.
Thanks for the detailed write-up ML, I think as most Sleuths realise ultimately we can only speculate. What brought me to this forum is knowing the victim. What happened to Claudia was unjust, unfair and an indictment of our times, like so many injustices before and since.
The ten year anniversary of Claudia's disappearance brought with it renewed interest in the still unsolved North Yorkshire murder mystery, not to mention new discussion: some of it a refresher of ideas already covered, some of it topics entirely new or at least more explicitly phrased elaborations on previously discussed theories, questions, and the like.
I think the timeline most agreed upon: the one suggesting Claudia was asleep at her house by 21.30 on March 18th 2009 and is why she didn't reply to her later texts that evening; entirely plausible had she stayed out drinking late the night before, and indeed this jived with the scene her father reportedly found at the house on Thursday evening, is that Claudia was abducted on her way to work from her own home on the Thursday morning, March 19th. Family have disputed some witness accounts though, based on presumably detailed review of exactly what was described. Is it possible that one or more witnesses turned out to be some of the main POI?
If Claudia met with her abductor and probable murderer at some point before or after her last known texts and phonecalls made in the evening on March 18th 2009, myriad possibilities abound, bringing with them their own set of puzzles and questions.
The alleyway behind Claudia's house is as potentially relevant as it is seemingly obscured. No detailed aerial photo evidence of the alleyway pre-2013 review exists online, according to Google. One photo uploaded and presumably taken in 2015 shows that the alley path ends a couple of doors down from Claudia's house. Adjacent and opposite to it as revealed on Websleuths is the back garden of 15 Heworth Place, once owned by suspect Pete Ruane's father, which was more or less open plan with Claudia's and two neighbouring ones. Was the layout the same in 2009? The shrubbery at the end of Heworth Place culdesac through to towards the Nag's Head car park as evidenced by Google maps has varied in density dramatically over time. Thick with bushes in 2008, by October 2009 it had been stripped bare and cleared, hopefully because the area had been forensically searched by investigators. If not, who did the work and who said they could do so? I do think that certain abnormalities in the investigation we see, including some which might point to police incompetence, are intended as a gotcha, but there is surely a reason for that.
One would assume that the most likely reason is in order to distract from a mistake or error of judgement that police really don't want us to notice, including embarrassment about being led down a garden path or two in the early days of the investigation by the very people they would eventually strongly suspect.
At first, police focused on the 'Rogue's Gallery' of men Claudia allegedly had vague relationships with. Perhaps some of them were at the pub the evening of March 18th. It bears thinking about the timing. Why then? If the RG aren't involved and were say attending a sporting event being shown at the pub that night and the perps knew them so knew they would attend said match/game, could they have designated then as the night Claudia went missing to implicate RG amongst others? And when so many people are implicated at once, the chance that a local/s amongst them are responsible is high.
Limes Court CCTV. If the man/men filmed are at least in part responsible for whatever happened to Claudia, what are the possibilities? I am less convinced than ML that the CCTV men had nothing to do with her disappearance, but it is quite plausible. Evening man could be checking for lights at her house before knocking at the front door or her car, retrieving/replacing a key or similar. Morning man ditto, the passerby in the evening footage could be coincidental or an accomplice. The possible third person could be looking out for people walking up LC and HP and of course morning and evening man could potentially be doing the same.
Consider though that evening and night man are involved in Claudia's disappearance, knowingly or not at the time, as a misdirecting force in the context of the CCTV. This would imply both knowledge about and potentially access to the LC cameras and the quality of footage they recorded. So too that Claudia's disappearance was a group effort. It's also not beyond the realm of possibility that York Uni and St John contracted out to the same or affiliated security firms for their halls of residence/grounds patrol staff and that those companies might have contracts with the council and even bars in the city centre too, which could be significant. Involved but unaware of the CCTV the possibilities are the same: unknown person/s enters the property--whether by door, skylight or window--stakes out, or retrieves something from nearby Claudia's house. Alternatively she is at some point that night coaxed or voluntary walks outside, perhaps to a car.
As per my post about Claudia's disappearance and my experience working at the Nag's, I go into some detail about the Ford Focus but do not muse outright that perhaps Claudia was the driver of that car, in the footage we see at least, and that perhaps she was convinced that night that her Corsa was a write-off and she needed a new one, perhaps offered to her by someone. I do think that Claudia would have been wary about driving a car she wasn't insured on though, and this scenario given the CCTV would imply she spent the night at someone else's house.
Thanks for the detailed write-up ML, I think as most Sleuths realise ultimately we can only speculate. What brought me to this forum is knowing the victim. What happened to Claudia was unjust, unfair and an indictment of our times, like so many injustices before and since.
The mattress has nothing to do with the CorsaWhat do car and mattress have to do with one another?
I thought that her little Corsa would be too small to accommodate
Yes I noticed the jacket she wore on her way TO work the day Wed March 18th was a longer, waterproof coat, possibly a green colour. On the way home, she is seen carrying the jacket. On Crimewatch, the mock reconstruction of her walking to work showed her wearing the shorter, blue (possibly denim) jacket.
Claudia Lawrence: Detective fears missing chef has "come to harm"
But walking to work in York before sunrise in March would be a chilly experience.
However, after the sunny weather (evident from the walking home video), perhaps she felt more confident to wear the short jacket on 19th March (which was presumably missing when her home was examined) if indeed this was the course of events which unfolded.
@moonsafari
As per my post about Claudia's disappearance and my experience working at the Nag's, I go into some detail about the Ford Focus but do not muse outright that perhaps Claudia was the driver of that car, in the footage we see at least, and that perhaps she was convinced that night that her Corsa was a write-off and she needed a new one, perhaps offered to her by someone. I do think that Claudia would have been wary about driving a car she wasn't insured on though, and this scenario given the CCTV would imply she spent the night at someone else's house.
I have wondered if she was out for the night and the Focus was dropping her off. Not knowing the exact house, CL might have told the driver "stop here" causing the car to brake sharply (we've all had a lift home when this has happened). She must have had the constitution of an ox to go out AGAIN after that self-reported all-nighter, but she was clearly a very fit, energetic woman and might have power-napped after work the day before. Plus the excitement of a 'new' relationship?
There are a couple of interesting points in the comments section of the article below from a woman called Susie Diamonds who describes herself as a journalist who previously worked on Claudia's case:
The Search for missing British woman Claudia Lawrence has been scaled down following police review : UnresolvedMysteries
The details I know which are not out there publicly are that the group of men arrested together in 2015 are known locally among people connected to Claudia. One of them was a married man who locals identified as the figure seen on the CCTV on the street leading to the alley behind her house due to the way he walks (if you look very closely he has a tiny bit of a limp). He is a married family man with kids, and it is not impossible he and Claudia had been involved in some sort of friendship or relationship. I have heard many rumours about the case - some of which are ludicrous - but the one that seems most plausible to me having looked into it is that Claudia's disappearance was planned, and that more than one person is culpable. It makes sense she left for work on the Thursday morning and, due to the early time, that provided a window of opportunity for someone to intercept. I'm not wanting to pin any blame on anyone in particular without solid evidence - but the fact the case is still unsolved more or less confirms that there is some foul play involved.
And this from Dioor:
I always hear with regard to this case that people in her social circle were uncooperative with police in the investigation, and I take that to mean that she was the "other woman" in an undetermined number of relationships and some people who might have valuable information aren't coming forwards because they're trying to protect their own butt; not from a murder charge, necessarily, but from their wife/girlfriend finding out they were messing around. Is this all it is, or were there other reasons for people in this circle to be uncooperative with police?
Also another from Union Jane who claims to be a local with connections to Claudia. Similar themes coming up.
As per my post about Claudia's disappearance and my experience working at the Nag's, I go into some detail about the Ford Focus but do not muse outright that perhaps Claudia was the driver of that car, in the footage we see at least, and that perhaps she was convinced that night that her Corsa was a write-off and she needed a new one, perhaps offered to her by someone. I do think that Claudia would have been wary about driving a car she wasn't insured on though, and this scenario given the CCTV would imply she spent the night at someone else's house.
I have wondered if she was out for the night and the Focus was dropping her off. Not knowing the exact house, CL might have told the driver "stop here" causing the car to brake sharply (we've all had a lift home when this has happened). She must have had the constitution of an ox to go out AGAIN after that self-reported all-nighter, but she was clearly a very fit, energetic woman and might have power-napped after work the day before. Plus the excitement of a 'new' relationship?
There are a couple of interesting points in the comments section of the article below from a woman called Susie Diamonds who describes herself as a journalist who previously worked on Claudia's case:
The Search for missing British woman Claudia Lawrence has been scaled down following police review : UnresolvedMysteries
The details I know which are not out there publicly are that the group of men arrested together in 2015 are known locally among people connected to Claudia. One of them was a married man who locals identified as the figure seen on the CCTV on the street leading to the alley behind her house due to the way he walks (if you look very closely he has a tiny bit of a limp). He is a married family man with kids, and it is not impossible he and Claudia had been involved in some sort of friendship or relationship. I have heard many rumours about the case - some of which are ludicrous - but the one that seems most plausible to me having looked into it is that Claudia's disappearance was planned, and that more than one person is culpable. It makes sense she left for work on the Thursday morning and, due to the early time, that provided a window of opportunity for someone to intercept. I'm not wanting to pin any blame on anyone in particular without solid evidence - but the fact the case is still unsolved more or less confirms that there is some foul play involved.
And this from Dioor:
I always hear with regard to this case that people in her social circle were uncooperative with police in the investigation, and I take that to mean that she was the "other woman" in an undetermined number of relationships and some people who might have valuable information aren't coming forwards because they're trying to protect their own butt; not from a murder charge, necessarily, but from their wife/girlfriend finding out they were messing around. Is this all it is, or were there other reasons for people in this circle to be uncooperative with police?
Also another from Union Jane who claims to be a local with connections to Claudia. Similar themes coming up.
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MajorLang
Former Member
But you mention it in the same post and don't elaborate!
MajorLang
Former Member
Good to have you back @moonsafari and refreshing as usual.
I believe that the Police got the last text time wrong-SS says he sent it at 9:12
9:12 in UK was 7:12
And I take it that all items the model was wearing were are still missing from Claudia house ?
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