UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Zuleika]

Most women I think ,at least in my day young women followed by example shown by their mothers on how to housekeep so if they had servants CM might never have known how to , so was out on a limb and descended into a lifestyle that would never gain her any sympathy with authorities ,but having said that why did she ? The people whose properties they left trashed ,what was that all about ?
One minute I feel sorry for her situations especially what's she's told about . Then I have no patience with her for her behaviour and what amounts to dirty living habits and perhaps creating a lifestyle not suitable to fetch a baby or young child up in that have come out .

 

[Telltale]

Most women I think ,at least in my day young women followed by example shown by their mothers on how to housekeep so if they had servants CM might never have known how to , so was out on a limb and descended into a lifestyle that would never gain her any sympathy with authorities ,but having said that why did she ? The people whose properties they left trashed ,what was that all about ?
One minute I feel sorry for her situations especially what's she's told about . Then I have no patience with her for her behaviour and what amounts to dirty living habits and perhaps creating a lifestyle not suitable to fetch a baby or young child up in that have come out .

She lived like she came from generational poverty not generational wealth. Most people who grow up in nice clean environments make an effort to live in one when older because their baseline of 'clean' and 'decent' is ingrained.

It's not the Victorian era, even these large houses don't have large amounts of staff. Even if they had a cook, cleaner and gardener, she would have done some basic life tasks. Especially when she left home.

She lived like she grew up in a trap house or half homeless. I find that really weird from a psychological perspective. Usually that sort of drop in living standards (not just living poor, but living in that kind of grim impoverished chaos) would be down to drug addiction or mental health, and from what I've seen of her that doesn't seem it (I'm sure her brain ain't right, but I've not seen symptoms would explain that level of neglect.)

They had money, certainly enough for a frugal 'respectable' lifestyle, even if they didn't work. Add two minimum wage jobs on top of her monthly payouts and they'd be easily living a middle class lifestyle, even with kids. More than that if the Trust released enough cash for them to buy property/get a down payment. Which it seems they did sometimes considering the lump sums that went in.

 

[Henrymoggington]

She lived like she came from generational poverty not generational wealth. Most people who grow up in nice clean environments make an effort to live in one when older because their baseline of 'clean' and 'decent' is ingrained.

It's not the Victorian era, even these large houses don't have large amounts of staff. Even if they had a cook, cleaner and gardener, she would have done some basic life tasks. Especially when she left home.

She lived like she grew up in a trap house or half homeless. I find that really weird from a psychological perspective. Usually that sort of drop in living standards (not just living poor, but living in that kind of grim impoverished chaos) would be down to drug addiction or mental health, and from what I've seen of her that doesn't seem it (I'm sure her brain ain't right, but I've not seen symptoms would explain that level of neglect.)

They had money, certainly enough for a frugal 'respectable' lifestyle, even if they didn't work. Add two minimum wage jobs on top of her monthly payouts and they'd be easily living a middle class lifestyle, even with kids. More than that if the Trust released enough cash for them to buy property/get a down payment. Which it seems they did sometimes considering the lump sums that went in.

Completely agree. The complete chaotic living is baffling..there has to be something driving it..mental health issues or addiction IMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Possibly also raises the spectre of coercive control again, though who may have been controlling whom is even less clear now than it was right back at the beginning imo.

Or trust issues. The one doesn't fully trust the other out of eyesight, or feel sure that something might not happen to the other whilst they're separated, so they do literally everything together at all times.

JMO MOO

 

[rightsaidfred]

Makes me think I live in a different world ,not a small rural town in the NW !
My rent on a HA 2b/r flat has just gone up to £ £368 pcm.

That's Housing Association rates though...

I'm in Cardiff nowadays and even here in South Wales you couldn't even get a bedroom in a shared house for £368pcm

I've just looked at Rightmove for Clapham, where I was paying £1300 in 2016/17. The going rate for a very similar flat now seems to be £1800. That will get you one bedroom, one kitchen / lounge, one bathroom, no garden, no parking. You can forget about being allowed kids or pets.

Private rents have been spiralling out of control, especially post pandemic, not that London was ever cheap.

 

[Zuleika]

That's Housing Association rates though...

I'm in Cardiff nowadays and even here in South Wales you couldn't even get a bedroom in a shared house for £368pcm

I've just looked at Rightmove for Clapham, where I was paying £1300 in 2016/17. The going rate for a very similar flat now seems to be £1800. That will get you one bedroom, one kitchen / lounge, one bathroom, no garden, no parking. You can forget about being allowed kids or pets.

Private rents have been spiralling out of control, especially post pandemic, not that London was ever cheap.

Yes I understand it's a complexly different ball game in private housing but having said that no one was forcing the couple to set up home in those expensive areas ? Or to keep a cat or have a car for that matter.
What's that saying about cutting your cloth according to your means,but surely not to descend to living in a tent .
If they had discarded friends ,again no reason to hold them there .
But that's all in the past and perhaps it never occurred to them.

 

[Twittens]

Perhaps she was trying to stash cash? As she couldn’t just withdraw one large sum?

It's my belief that there's another account somewhere that CM has been paying cash into for the benefit of MG, in case anything happened to her and the trust fund payments ceased. Even in the scenario that they'd still had custody of any of their children, I think it goes without saying that any help the Marten family offered would not have involved money being paid directly to MG, as I'm sure they both knew. I'm undecided about whose idea I think that would most likely have been.

jmoo

 

[Smccat]

It's my belief that there's another account somewhere that CM has been paying cash into for the benefit of MG, in case anything happened to her and the trust fund payments ceased. Even in the scenario that they'd still had custody of any of their children, I think it goes without saying that any help the Marten family offered would not have involved money being paid directly to MG, as I'm sure they both knew. I'm undecided about whose idea I think that would most likely have been.

jmoo

Metro to metro probably.
I have wondered though if she was always schlepping about because the one thing she wouldn’t part with was her cards and cash.
I know mg went to Argos and boots for some stuff that time but in the main I’m speaking.
Most guys - I know, i know - would be ‘leave it to me stay as warm as you can and rest up a bit.’
That’s why I’d speculate he didn’t have any means/ card of his own. Otherwise she could transfer and leave more jobbing to him?
Baffling.
I know it’s all baffling.

Jmo imo

 

[Zuleika]

Metro to metro probably.
I have wondered though if she was always schlepping about because the one thing she wouldn’t part with was her cards and cash.
I know mg went to Argos and boots for some stuff that time but in the main I’m speaking.
Most guys - I know, i know - would be ‘leave it to me stay as warm as you can and rest up a bit.’
That’s why I’d speculate he didn’t have any means/ card of his own. Otherwise she could transfer and leave more jobbing to him?
Baffling.
I know it’s all baffling.

Jmo imo

I don't think you can open a bank account in another adult's name although I stand to be corrected because it's actually something I'd thought of doing for someone .

 

[Smccat]

Also, as has been said previously, it would have been far less noticeable for them to operate separately.
I’m glad they didn’t get away any longer than they did but just hopping in the shoes of two people on the run.

Edit to add and I really wish they’d been caught up with a lot lot sooner.

 

[Smccat]

I don't think you can open a bank account in another adult's name although I stand to be corrected because it's actually something I'd thought of doing for someone .

I think he must have had his own bank account and card, just maybe didn’t have it with him or was expired owing to no fixed address. Hard to get new issued cards with no letterbox. I’m sure metro did have a service where they can make them in store though I will have to go double check that.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I think he must have had his own bank account and card, just maybe didn’t have it with him or was expired owing to no fixed address. Hard to get new issued cards with no letterbox. I’m sure metro did have a service where they can make them in store though I will have to go double check that.

I think you can order them to be delivered to the bank, if there's still a branch of your bank left that is!

 

[Smccat]

Maybe you can order to branch. I think it’s one thing racing about and turning up randomly for a withdrawal and another thing ordering a card to a certain branch though. Very risky that.
If it was in the ‘on the run timeframe’ that is. If before then grand.

 

[Alyce]

It's my belief that there's another account somewhere that CM has been paying cash into for the benefit of MG, in case anything happened to her and the trust fund payments ceased. Even in the scenario that they'd still had custody of any of their children, I think it goes without saying that any help the Marten family offered would not have involved money being paid directly to MG, as I'm sure they both knew. I'm undecided about whose idea I think that would most likely have been.

jmoo

Am remembering that doorbell footage, when they're walking back from the shop, just before they are arrested.

MG shouts to CM, have you got my money

 

[Nikynoo]

Am remembering that doorbell footage, when they're walking back from the shop, just before they are arrested.

MG shouts to CM, have you got my money

Wasn’t it, have you got my wallet?

 

[Zuleika]

Am remembering that doorbell footage, when they're walking back from the shop, just before they are arrested.

MG shouts to CM, have you got my money

Has it been established that MG had a job prior to setting off on this journey ? Or was he in receipt of a State Benefit?

 

[Alyce]

Wasn’t it, have you got my wallet?

I stand corrected, it was indeed wallet…just listening to it again now , trying to hear what he says next

 

[Nikynoo]

I stand corrected, it was indeed wallet…just listening to it again now , trying to hear what he says next

See thread 4, around post 108. We discussed the wording back then.

 

[InstantCoffee]

Court 5 tomorrow with a start time of 10am. I believe that it will be the final week for the prosecution setting out their case and focusing on forensics and the couple's Family Court proceedings (according to the DM). I hope the latter might give some context which seems to be missing so far!

 

[DavidAT]

It's my belief that there's another account somewhere that CM has been paying cash into for the benefit of MG, in case anything happened to her and the trust fund payments ceased. Even in the scenario that they'd still had custody of any of their children, I think it goes without saying that any help the Marten family offered would not have involved money being paid directly to MG, as I'm sure they both knew. I'm undecided about whose idea I think that would most likely have been.

jmoo

Going by their "appeals", neither of CM's parents seem to have recognised her partnership with MG as even morganatic.

AFAIAA the CPS and police haven't revealed how much cash they had on them when they were arrested.

Also what account or accounts were the three ATM withdrawals soon before their arrest made from, which presumably the police weren't watching?