UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[InstantCoffee]

11:55am

Gordon 'changed his mind', court hears​

The jury has returned.
Judge Lucraft told the court: "Mr Femi-Ola, enquiries that you and Ms Crinnion have made are that the two experts you intend to call on behalf of your Gordon are not available until Wednesday.
"On Friday it was clear that Gordon was planning to give evidence.
"He is entitled to and has had a change of mind."

 

[InstantCoffee]

And once again!!

11:57am

Case adjourned until Wednesday​

Judge Lucraft told the jury that because of the nature of the case, "We can't just leave where we are and go on to the second defendant [Marten]."
The judge apologised to the jury and told them the case will be adjourned until Wednesday morning.

 

[rockthecasbah]

And once again!!

11:57am

Case adjourned until Wednesday​

Judge Lucraft told the jury that because of the nature of the case, "We can't just leave where we are and go on to the second defendant [Marten]."
The judge apologised to the jury and told them the case will be adjourned until Wednesday morning.

Poor jury

 

[Nikynoo]

At least we get experts on Wednesday!

 

[crespo29]

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon playing the system and being as difficult as possible. I suspect that Gordon was putting out the signs that he was going to the witness stand and then at the last moment decided that he wasn't. The time and preparation that had been put aside to cross examination was wasted. I think that the court should have been prepared for this, and prepared for the next stage of the trial. I will not be surprised if Marten does the same thing on Wednesday.

 

[rockthecasbah]

I don't see what kind of experts are going to help their case - who on earth would risk their reputation saying what they did was OK?

 

[Sherlockhames]

This is interesting to me is I listened to the podcast (link below) which contained reconstructions of his police interviews where he went on and on and about wanting to talk to a jury. And tell his story to the jury, etc etc. And the jury will have heard this too. So him deciding now not to answer questions in front of the jury can’t be giving them a great impression. I wonder what inferences they might draw from this?! (MOO)

The Trial: Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: “Let’s go give the baby in” on Apple Podcasts

Show The Trial, Ep Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: “Let’s go give the baby in” - 23 Feb 2024

podcasts.apple.com

 

[elliefant]

That his bluster is a load of toffee

 

[Henrymoggington]

I’m starting to think that we’ll get to the end of this court case with the jury discharged, still none the wiser as to why MG and CM behaved as they did, and not really knowing how poor Victoria died

 

[jackal67]

Lots of travellers live in houses now.

Not really travelling then are they?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I don't see what kind of experts are going to help their case - who on earth would risk their reputation saying what they did was OK?

Raising children in tents expert?

 

[Alyce]

Judge Mark Lucraft KC, the Recorder of London, confirmed that Gordon has been advised that this is his chance to give evidence in the trial, and that jurors “may draw any inferences as appear proper from his failure to do so”.

Aristocrat Constance Marten's partner will not give evidence in baby death trial

Mark Gordon and Constance Marten are accused of causing the death of baby Victoria while on the run

www.standard.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

Judge Mark Lucraft KC, the Recorder of London, confirmed that Gordon has been advised that this is his chance to give evidence in the trial, and that jurors “may draw any inferences as appear proper from his failure to do so”.

Aristocrat Constance Marten's partner will not give evidence in baby death trial

Mark Gordon and Constance Marten are accused of causing the death of baby Victoria while on the run

www.standard.co.uk

No 5th Amendment privileges over here Marky Boy!

 

[InstantCoffee]

He set himself up for this fall! Had he not insisted in police interviews that he would only tell a jury what happened, he wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place with the jury inferring what they will. And I know what I'd be inferring! One word - Hubris!

 

[Twittens]

Not really travelling then are they?

I can't tell if this was a serious comment or not but, just in case, the key point is that Gypsies, Roma and Travellers are now (belatedly) recognised as a distinct ethnic group, whose traditionally nomadic life, among other things, has created a legacy of disadvantage and discrimination, which is why CM's misappropriation of that identity, which would be wrong if anyone did it, is particularly unacceptable considering the exceptionally privileged upbringing she enjoyed.

The fact of literally travelling isn't part of the definition of being GRT, and in fact many GRT people no longer do, or live statically for certain times of year (e.g. the school year, or for winter, for example). It doesn't take much imagination, though, to see how GRT people who are in static accommodation would still be disadvantaged, whether that comes through the prism of poverty, mistrust of institutions, discrimination, poor education, and much else besides.

This is a good website for anyone who wants to educate themselves: Friends, Families and Travellers

 

[DavidAT]

So do we think this is MGs decision - or his Briefs'?!

His. A barrister doesn't make that kind of decision. All he can do is suggest and advise.

It does seem that games are being played.

According to Ellie Crabbe in the Argus, the judge told the jury "that because of the nature of the case, 'We can't just leave where we are and go on to the second defendant [Marten].' "

Why not? Was CM not in court today? If she was, I wonder why she couldn't be called a day or two early. Before I read that report, I was going to say that the adjournment suggests the next witness won't be her, and that therefore she herself probably won't be giving evidence, but it seems (at this stage) that she will be.

<modsnip - no link>

 

[DianaWW]

I think the reason they can’t go straight to CM’s evidence is because they are being tried separately. So his defence go first, and then hers. Therefore his witnesses need to give their evidence before her defence start their case, and the judge doesn’t want to mess up the order and cause confusion. That’s my understanding anyway, but I may be wrong.

The mirror’s reporting say that his defence witnesses are two medical experts:

"As a consequence those two witnesses were scheduled for Wednesday, they're both medical experts and as such cannot move their schedule and can't be here until Wednesday." The jury will return on Wednesday to hear from Gordon's two expert witnesses.’’

Constance Marten trial co-accused Mark Gordon declines to take witness stand

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are accused of killing their newborn baby Victoria by taking her on the run in January last year to prevent her being taken away by social services, allegations they deny

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[DavidAT]

Probably persuaded him that it was not a good idea. Is he on his own today?

I've no idea how well he would come across, or what the likelihood would be that he'd have an impact in either direction on the crown case. Is it even clear that the prosecutor would call him a liar about something?<modsni - sub judice>

It's easy to imagine that the defendants believe CM to be the more intelligent one and that therefore they want her to go first, breaking the alphabetical rule, so that he can hear how she fares and adjust accordingly. Whether she actually is the more intelligent one, who knows?

 

[DavidAT]

I think the reason they can’t go straight to CM’s evidence is because they are being tried separately. So his defence go first, and then hers. Therefore his witnesses need to give their evidence before her defence start their case, and the judge doesn’t want to mess up the order and cause confusion. That’s my understanding anyway, but I may be wrong.

The mirror’s reporting say that his defence witnesses are two medical experts:

"As a consequence those two witnesses were scheduled for Wednesday, they're both medical experts and as such cannot move their schedule and can't be here until Wednesday." The jury will return on Wednesday to hear from Gordon's two expert witnesses.’’

Constance Marten trial co-accused Mark Gordon declines to take witness stand

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are accused of killing their newborn baby Victoria by taking her on the run in January last year to prevent her being taken away by social services, allegations they deny

www.mirror.co.uk

You may well be right. Witnesses can be joint, but it's possible those experts will be giving evidence on MG's health rather than matters directly connected with Victoria and therefore that they are very much his witnesses. Or it could be that CM has been pencilled in for 2 days and the judge doesn't want there to be another witness giving evidence in the middle of hers.

My hunch is we will be hearing from both defendants before the jury retires.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I hate this case so much.