UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #1

[Amonet]

I don't think anyone is purposely putting out misinformation or disinformation.

I think what might have happened is that one of the guys from Honington said something in general about guys walking home from BSE to base occasionally, and Nicola interpreted this as meaning Corrie had done it occasionally. Then she said that in one of her interviews and it became 'fact'.

She's had a month of going through hell, police talking to her, media talking to her, nights crying herself to sleep while trying to reassure her other boys that Corrie's going to come home safely..somehow. She can probably barely remember some things she's said. But now it seems she's been corrected that the guy who mentioned walking back to base was talking about his own experiences, not talking about Corrie having definitely done that himself. So now she's put out a message saying Corrie never did walk back to base from BSE, and she just can't remember her exact words from every interview she's done.

From reading the FB page (which is extremely hard to follow and to extract information from) there was CCTV footage from the pizza place that was shown in mobile incident rooms in BSE as stills, and this is where the death metal t-shirt guy was seen and the 'video' that he's referring to. The t-shirt guy said on the FB page that he didn't have a heated conversation with Corrie in the pizza place, but he and Corrie were acquaintances, Corrie sat at a table with him and had a slice of his pizza, they just chatted normally and then hugged goodbye. We know that after that Corrie was seen napping in the doorway, so I don't think this has any relation to the case.

What bothers me from reading posts related to that subject on the FB page is that this guy is USAF from Mildenhall and didn't even know that police wanted to talk to him. Apparently the USAF boys there don't get TV news, British papers, or much in the way of internet time. Mildenhall is just a couple of miles away from the last phone ping position...why on earth aren't the brass at Mildenhall putting out basewide bulletins for guys who might have been in BSE that night or driving back to base down the road from BSE to Barton Mills roundabout?? That bothers me a lot!

Anyway, back to my original point...the family is in an awkward position, any family is, but maybe this one more so in some ways because of the way they process information they're given by police and then how they, the family, want to put out parts of that information to the public when they're doing media interviews. So things like the bin lorry info gets more weight added in one interview, then a few weeks later there's less emphasis on it, but we don't know exactly why, all we can do is take their word for it. Then it turns out that maybe they were misinformed or did a bad job of personally processing information they were given. I just think we should go easy on them.

The police aren't trying to give us information to solve the case ourselves. They're trying to put out information to 1) get information back from the public of sightings and other things that happened that night in BSE and surroundings; and 2) keep this case in the public eye, and in a way Nicola and Tony and the boys have taken on that side of the job, because it's the biggest and best contribution they can make at this time.

So when we're sifting through this information we, just like the police, have to try to sift through facts and hearsay, though we're doing it on far less information/misinformation than the police have to go through.

Facts:
Corrie went for a night out in BSE
Left the club and went for takeaway
Ate the takeaway, presumably napped in a doorway. No confirmed sightings since then.
The phone pings appear to have gone toward Barton Mills area
The phone appears to have stopped moving in the Barton Mills area and then gone completely 'dead' (turned off,battery dead, in a blind spot, etc) at around 8 am.

 

[Weeobanite]

I don't think anyone is purposely putting out misinformation or disinformation.

I think what might have happened is that one of the guys from Honington said something in general about guys walking home from BSE to base occasionally, and Nicola interpreted this as meaning Corrie had done it occasionally. Then she said that in one of her interviews and it became 'fact'.

She's had a month of going through hell, police talking to her, media talking to her, nights crying herself to sleep while trying to reassure her other boys that Corrie's going to come home safely..somehow. She can probably barely remember some things she's said. But now it seems she's been corrected that the guy who mentioned walking back to base was talking about his own experiences, not talking about Corrie having definitely done that himself. So now she's put out a message saying Corrie never did walk back to base from BSE, and she just can't remember her exact words from every interview she's done.

From reading the FB page (which is extremely hard to follow and to extract information from) there was CCTV footage from the pizza place that was shown in mobile incident rooms in BSE as stills, and this is where the death metal t-shirt guy was seen and the 'video' that he's referring to. The t-shirt guy said on the FB page that he didn't have a heated conversation with Corrie in the pizza place, but he and Corrie were acquaintances, Corrie sat at a table with him and had a slice of his pizza, they just chatted normally and then hugged goodbye. We know that after that Corrie was seen napping in the doorway, so I don't think this has any relation to the case.

What bothers me from reading posts related to that subject on the FB page is that this guy is USAF from Mildenhall and didn't even know that police wanted to talk to him. Apparently the USAF boys there don't get TV news, British papers, or much in the way of internet time. Mildenhall is just a couple of miles away from the last phone ping position...why on earth aren't the brass at Mildenhall putting out basewide bulletins for guys who might have been in BSE that night or driving back to base down the road from BSE to Barton Mills roundabout?? That bothers me a lot!

Anyway, back to my original point...the family is in an awkward position, any family is, but maybe this one more so in some ways because of the way they process information they're given by police and then how they, the family, want to put out parts of that information to the public when they're doing media interviews. So things like the bin lorry info gets more weight added in one interview, then a few weeks later there's less emphasis on it, but we don't know exactly why, all we can do is take their word for it. Then it turns out that maybe they were misinformed or did a bad job of personally processing information they were given. I just think we should go easy on them.

The police aren't trying to give us information to solve the case ourselves. They're trying to put out information to 1) get information back from the public of sightings and other things that happened that night in BSE and surroundings; and 2) keep this case in the public eye, and in a way Nicola and Tony and the boys have taken on that side of the job, because it's the biggest and best contribution they can make at this time.

So when we're sifting through this information we, just like the police, have to try to sift through facts and hearsay, though we're doing it on far less information/misinformation than the police have to go through.

Facts:
Corrie went for a night out in BSE
Left the club and went for takeaway
Ate the takeaway, presumably napped in a doorway. No confirmed sightings since then.
The phone pings appear to have gone toward Barton Mills area
The phone appears to have stopped moving in the Barton Mills area and then gone completely 'dead' (turned off,battery dead, in a blind spot, etc) at around 8 am.

absolutely.. well said! Here's hoping there's some news very soon. ��

 

[Amonet]

I don't know how much of what I say here will go over the rules of this board...Some people have mentioned the Turkish guy who owns the pizza place.

The guy that went to jail for underage girls went down for three years and was then ordered to be deported. I don't think it can be that hard to deport someone straight from prison, but unless the sentence got reduced for good behaviour he should still be in jail and then deportation when the sentence ends.

The guy who owns the pizza place has a record as a company director going back about 18 months. It's doubtful they're the same person, and even if they were I can't see the connection between a guy who likes teenage girls and a grown man going missing.

I did notice when searching Corrie's case on FB that there are Turkish people, in Turkey, speaking Turkish who are sharing news articles about Corrie. I would guess they heard about it from the guys who own/run the pizza place. So a case that's local to Bury St Edmonds, which people in Turkey have probably never heard of, there are people in Turkey who are concerned about Corrie just from hearing about it from their friends/relatives in England. It's quite amazing really how a local case can have people in other countries who care too.

 

[Amonet]

I just read the latest update from Corrie's uncle Tony, posted on the official FB page

Corrie's Nokia Lumia phone has still not been found. Anyone out in the Barton Mills and surrounding area please be on the look out for it. We don't know for certain if either Corrie or his phone were at Barton Mills itself - cellular triangulation can sometimes only be narrowed down to a radius of kilometres, not meters - so please be on the look out further afield from Barton Mills too.

I think it's a shame that they haven't actually said the exact zone they've triangulated to. It might be a wider area than people thought, and that could cut down on reports coming into the police from people who might have seen or heard something odd that night or early morning.

 

[haynat21]

There was another apparent abduction attempt in aldershot in August which I thought he was referring to but that is still more than 2 weeks ago.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Erm.... why did the bin lorry take the "waste paper", which is placed in a specific bin...to the tip ?

Am I being thick ?
I thought that "waste paper" was treated in some other way, than just "tipped into the local landfill" ?
I thought it was "recycled" ???

It's certainly supposed to take recyclable waste to a recycling centre. From what I have seen of these facilities on TV, they are usually in a large warehouse with conveyor belt systems. The waste is tipped onto one end of the belt and travels past groups of people who pull off specific types of waste (paper, cardboard, plastics, glass etc) in turn until what ends up at the other end is non-recyclable and therefore shouldn't have been in the bin in the first place. In other words, this is low-tech and eyeball work.

Obviously there are cowboys in all industries so there certainly will be some material which is supposed to by recycled that bypasses the system. However commercial dumping of waste in landfill is tightly controled (and has to be paid for by the dumper), hence the amount of fly tipping we see these days.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Assuming the sugar beet factory has no CCTV or does but Corrie wasn't caught on It i wonder how the police can tell if this sighting is credible or not. Tough job.

I would by VERY surprised if a plant the size of that one did not have CCTV at least on the entry gates, various points around the perimeter, the office areas and covering all the ponds (whatever they are for). It's a potentially hazardous site and for insurance and liability reasons they would want to deter intruders or spot them asap if they do get in.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

With reference to a poster above, if "alot of the CCTV in Bury" is on "auto rotation", then why did "camera one" follow Corrie past The Grapes and to the doorway ?

CCTV images go to a CCTV control centre which is manned 24/7. The cameras are normally on auto programme, but the operator can override that on any given camera if he sees something which attracts his attention, eg a fight, people or a vehicle acting suspiciously.

 

[jslk]

Assuming the sugar beet factory has no CCTV or does but Corrie wasn't caught on It i wonder how the police can tell if this sighting is credible or not. Tough job.

Surely it's GOT to have security cameras?!

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[JamesKing]

Great post Amonet. Thanks for "keeping the perspective".

Going back to the night/morning in question, I still think it is important to understand/appreciate what Corrie's plans were, for that evening.

What did be normally do after a night out ? How did he normally get home ?

I doubt it was habit of his that he slept in doorways.
And I doubt it was habit he walked from Bury to RAF Honington.

For example, there must have been times when he'd met a girl in a club. Obviously then, he'd probably spend slightly longer in town before heading homeward. Exchanging telephone number and "showing ones appreciation for another" takes time. How did he get home then ?

There must have been times when he wasn't so lucky. He'd likely be with friends or even other people he'd become acquainted to, possibly in the same line of work. What did he do then. How did he get home then ?

I read on that FB page that he would indeed sometimes visit his car after a night out. Whilst his mum didn't want to get into the legalities of that situation, it was "fact" that previously he'd done that. I assume it would have been late then. Was this indeed what he was planning to do that night ? It was more "in-keeping" with his patterns.

The fact remains, he was in the doorway at 3.24am and at 3.25am he entered Short Brackland. I would say there is a strong possibility he was going to "answer the call of nature". Given the time it was, that would be "in-keeping" with a 23 year old male, who had been "on the pop" from 11.45pm ish to 1.00am.

Being that he then "disappeared" from that area, what is the most likely route (or thing he'd do) once he'd relieved himself ? He could have headed towards his car. He could of headed back towards The Grapes to "flag a taxi". He could have headed towards The Market Square to "flag a taxi". Or continued on past McDonald's to Well Street to again "flag a taxi".

Without knowing Corrie or Bury St Edmunds, it's hard to understand "where the most likely place he'd head for" would have been. I suspect that, very earlier on in the investigation, this would have been addressed by the police. And from those investigations, they would have "several" possibly "immediate routes" he could have taken.

From that...and being that none of the possibilities provided an "instant" solution to finding Corrie, it could be said that "there was an outside chance he may have walked home".

Or given that "his phone appears to have followed the same route as a bin lorry", it was a possibility Corrie "got in the bin in Short Brackland and fell asleep".

There is a possibility of course that, if the phone was indeed in that bin lorry, it doesn't necessarily mean it was in that particular bin (which I gather, was the last bin to be collected ?).
But if it was in another bin, the "time-scale" shortens somewhat. Corrie has to leave that place, unseen by CCTV cameras and "pass near to" another bin, not yet collected. Is there even a possibility that, that could happen ?
The bin on Well Street perhaps ? It seems to be from the same company.

If that is the case (and who knows), he could have been abducted by car on the street. He may well have been "unseen" as he may have been forced into the boot. And horrifically, whilst his phone later journey to the Barton Mills area..... he may well have been taken in a completely different direction out of Bury St Edmunds.

Anything now seems possible, unfortunately.

 

[hermes&&]

I don't know how much of what I say here will go over the rules of this board...Some people have mentioned the Turkish guy who owns the pizza place.

The guy that went to jail for underage girls went down for three years and was then ordered to be deported. I don't think it can be that hard to deport someone straight from prison, but unless the sentence got reduced for good behaviour he should still be in jail and then deportation when the sentence ends.

The guy who owns the pizza place has a record as a company director going back about 18 months. It's doubtful they're the same person, and even if they were I can't see the connection between a guy who likes teenage girls and a grown man going missing.

I did notice when searching Corrie's case on FB that there are Turkish people, in Turkey, speaking Turkish who are sharing news articles about Corrie. I would guess they heard about it from the guys who own/run the pizza place. So a case that's local to Bury St Edmonds, which people in Turkey have probably never heard of, there are people in Turkey who are concerned about Corrie just from hearing about it from their friends/relatives in England. It's quite amazing really how a local case can have people in other countries who care too.

The guy who went to jail for sexual assault in Worcester and who had the same name as a guy mentioned in the press as working at the kebab shop, would have been released by now and may not have been deported. Not saying it's the same guy but can't be ruled out.

 

[Amonet]

I think that since I arrived in this thread there have been a fairly limited number of possible scenarios for that night. As information comes out the probability of one or another changes.

Going AWOL has always seemed extremely low to zero probability.

Attempting to walk back to base initially seemed high probability, which leads to thoughts of accident on the way home or maybe being hit by a car. Low to medium probability of a car along the route picking up Corrie along this route. That would imply that Corrie got separated from his phone some time between 3am and 4am.

But with the newer information coming out it seems to reduce the probability of walking back to base and anything happening as a consequence of such a walk.

That says to me that the probability of being separated from his phone goes down and he was more likely to be with the phone, at least until it stopped moving.

So, we take it that the phone got to somewhere in the Barton Mills/Mildenhall area by car, traveling between 4am and 4.30 am. This gives us a missing half hour from the last known CCTV sighting in the city centre, and puts Corrie either in the Barton Mills/Mildenhall area or going through that area on the way to somewhere else, but by this point an abductor(?) has dumped the phone somewhere that it's not yet been found and has continued driving with Corrie, presumably as an unwilling passenger. That road would lead to a few other medium-sized cities, or plenty of villages, within say 50 miles of BSE...and I can't see this route being much further than that from BSE, but there is a low but non-zero probability that it was further than 50 miles from BSE.

I know the police asked people in the Barton Mills area to do things like check outbuildings, but have they put out a request for anyone being up and around in that area that night -- it all seems focused on people who were around BSE that night? Have they done any house-to-house enquiries to ask people specifically if they saw/heard anything that night?

Have I missed anything out? Anyone got any thoughts on these things or anything I missed?

 

[Amonet]

Off topic. I just saw a notice at the top of the page that the forum's down for maintenance from 6pm ET until tomorrow morning ET. So that's about 11pm to lunchtime Thursday for UKers. I might be an hour out on that because I'm working from EST to BST...have their clocks already changed?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Off topic. I just saw a notice at the top of the page that the forum's down for maintenance from 6pm ET until tomorrow morning ET. So that's about 11pm to lunchtime Thursday for UKers. I might be an hour out on that because I'm working from EST to BST...have their clocks already changed?

Good, I might actually get to bed at a sensible time!

 

[OrlandoJames]

Suffolk Lowland Search and Rescue has just confirmed, as expected, that Corrie's body is not on any of the routes from Bury to Honington. They say it is now a 'rest of the world situation'.

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not you take the lack of forensic evidence from the bin lorry at face value. If you believe that the bin lorry drivers didn't see Corrie or his phone in Short Brackland, and accept the police evidence that there was no evidence of Corrie or his phone ever being in the lorry, then the only conclusion is that he must have left the loading area shortly after he left and very likely entered into another vehicle. This vehicle must then have travelled the same route as the bin lorry at around the same time, which seems odd as the bin lorry didn't arrive until Short Brackland until around 30mins after Corrie did. It would be an incredible coincidence if the 2nd vehicle happened to travel the same route at the same time as the bin lorry.

It seems more likely that Corrie's phone was in the bin lorry when it made that journey. The question is: was Corrie with it? If so, why would the lorry drivers and recycling plant staff conspire to hide the fact? If Corrie was in a bin or was accidentally crushed while sleeping close to the bins, it wouldn't be their fault, would it? Unless of course there was some major breach of procedure relating to the collection in Short Brackland that led to Corrie's death and has frightened the drivers into going to elaborate lengths to conceal what happened.

 

[Liz40]

JamesKing How do you know that Corrie was taking drugs etc

 

[CoverMeCagney]

JamesKing How do you know that Corrie was taking drugs etc

Pretty sure he was just speculating!!

And welcome - 2 years between signing up and posting, you must have some willpower!!

 

[mrazda71]

JamesKing How do you know that Corrie was taking drugs etc

He doesn't know that.

In reality, the only time I consider a member to "know" anything is when they're a verified insider such as Becky Watts brother who joined us on that thread. Otherwise anything else is just speculation and speaking honestly, we're all just intrigued by these cases and more nosy than your average facebook commenter ... it's very rare for anyone on websleuth to be actually instrumental in solving a case.

 

[hermes&&]

Suffolk Lowland Search and Rescue has just confirmed, as expected, that Corrie's body is not on any of the routes from Bury to Honington. They say it is now a 'rest of the world situation'.

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not you take the lack of forensic evidence from the bin lorry at face value. If you believe that the bin lorry drivers didn't see Corrie or his phone in Short Brackland, and accept the police evidence that there was no evidence of Corrie or his phone ever being in the lorry, then the only conclusion is that he must have left the loading area shortly after he left and very likely entered into another vehicle. This vehicle must then have travelled the same route as the bin lorry at around the same time, which seems odd as the bin lorry didn't arrive until Short Brackland until around 30mins after Corrie did. It would be an incredible coincidence if the 2nd vehicle happened to travel the same route at the same time as the bin lorry.

It seems more likely that Corrie's phone was in the bin lorry when it made that journey. The question is: was Corrie with it? If so, why would the lorry drivers and recycling plant staff conspire to hide the fact? If Corrie was in a bin or was accidentally crushed while sleeping close to the bins, it wouldn't be their fault, would it? Unless of course there was some major breach of procedure relating to the collection in Short Brackland that led to Corrie's death and has frightened the drivers into going to elaborate lengths to conceal what happened.

Having had many years in the waste industry and having dealt with the legal fall out of bodies in bins on a few occasions I am sure there is zero chance that the waste contractor would conspire to hide any evidence, even if they were at fault.

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[Deleted member 178385]

The guy who went to jail for sexual assault in Worcester and who had the same name as a guy mentioned in the press as working at the kebab shop, would have been released by now and may not have been deported. Not saying it's the same guy but can't be ruled out.

Absolutely. A companies house search shows someone with his name and of the same age listed as director of a company registered to the same address as Pizza Mama Mia since April this year - so definitely not outside the realms of possibility that he had been released by that point (just short of 2 years served of a 3 year sentence).


Having said that, it could easily be a coincidence and is probably impossible for a member of the public to verify either way. I've seen him described several times as the last person to talk to Corrie, so I'd like to think that the police will have looked into anyone of interest from that night.


Also, in terms of the guy who was jailed for sexual assault, his victim was described in media reports as being a 'teenage woman' and as being a student at Worcester University. This suggests to me she was 17/18/19 years of age rather than underage / very young, which was suggested earlier. Similar age to the attacker himself at the time (19). (Not suggesting it's a 'lesser crime', just a different crime as it takes any preference for children out of it.)


Again, not saying that they are the same guy (or that he should even be a person of interest), but agree that it can't be ruled out.