UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #1

[Amonet]

Just to add to this so everyone can see what is meant by the bin being weighed (a video speaks a million words!) here is a demo of what I would think is a similar system used on the bin lorry in question:

[video=youtube;31YTZ8qqdG0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31YTZ8qqdG0[/video]

It seems the bin lorry and bins have rfid so can't really be tampered with either.

That video is really useful. We can see the guy putting the bin into place has a good view of the top of the bin as he's loading it onto the lorry. Then, I'm thinking about how I move my wheelie bin and I tip it to move it on the back wheels...a phone that was left on top would fall off, and if it didn't, then there's a good chance the guy loading the bin would notice a phone on there.

 

[hermes&&]

A body doesn't have to be in a bin, to be in a lorry ?

The back off the lorry isn't open when it's not lifting a bin to tip. So the only stuff in the lorry has come from a paid for bin, they are designed to be secure when not in use.

There only thing I'm certain about now is that he wasn't in the bin and not in the lorry. But his phone probably was.




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[JamesKing]

For me..... a "mis-truth" is as good as a lie.

to be honest, there is little known about Corries potential movements. But the police and the family (less so now) want help...but give little. It is a strange case indeed.

 

[Amonet]

I am (in light of what has come forth) able to argue the opposite

I'm not sure which paragraph you're referring to, but I want to hear all those arguments. It's the 'other angles' that people brainstorm together and offer critiques of that I find most useful. I don't want to shut down anyone who disagrees with anything I've said...

The increasing mystery of this case, the fact that he's a nice bloke who's in the military, giving to this country and its safety and security, and the brainstorming of different angles in this thread, these are the things that are making it so compelling for me. It could be anybody's kid/brother, and if it was, we wouldn't want them to be forgotten about.

 

[mrazda71]

That video is really useful. We can see the guy putting the bin into place has a good view of the top of the bin as he's loading it onto the lorry. Then, I'm thinking about how I move my wheelie bin and I tip it to move it on the back wheels...a phone that was left on top would fall off, and if it didn't, then there's a good chance the guy loading the bin would notice a phone on there.

But, it was dark at 4.am and Corrie's phone was in a black case and the large bins aren't tipped to be pushed to the lorry, just pushed.

 

[Amonet]

A body doesn't have to be in a bin, to be in a lorry ?

So far we have heard "mistruths".

But apparently facenookers go off "looks" (for me, it brilliant as a student of human nature) so he could actually be the biggest "git" you could ever know ? Self interested, self adsorbed etc, etc

EDIT... this is regardless if he is alive or dead.

I'm sure it's not relevant in this case, but I do remember reading that if a soldier comes back dead, it doesn't matter how big a git he was in life, you only say good things about him. They're human beings, just like the rest of us.

The military do also have a 'cover-up' mode if anything untoward happens, and they might have a tendency to give a 'nicer' story to the family and the public than is actually true.

But how much of that is relevant here? The fact is that there's a person missing for more than a month, and he needs to be found and the reasons for his disappearance need to be found. Corrie could have been a little git, though I don't get that sense at all, but would it be relevant? What pushes his behaviour that night is relevant...to the police analysts...but is it relevant to the police appeals to the public for help?

He didn't wander off to commit arson, murder, rape or burglary. But we can't rule out more minor infringements such as sleeping in his car while over the limit, or maybe entering a public building that had the door wide open. We also probably can't entirely rule out the possibility that Corrie might be gay/bi and generally hiding this from his hyper-hetero mates at base, and maybe he would willingly get in a car with a gay man for obvious reasons....and that's the sort of thing that could be totally relevant to the case, but is it relevant to the public appeals? And none of these things mean he is/was a 'bad' person.

 

[JamesKing]

I'm sure it's not relevant in this case, but I do remember reading that if a soldier comes back dead, it doesn't matter how big a git he was in life, you only say good things about him. They're human beings, just like the rest of us.

The military do also have a 'cover-up' mode if anything untoward happens, and they might have a tendency to give a 'nicer' story to the family and the public than is actually true.

But how much of that is relevant here? The fact is that there's a person missing for more than a month, and he needs to be found and the reasons for his disappearance need to be found. Corrie could have been a little git, though I don't get that sense at all, but would it be relevant? What pushes his behaviour that night is relevant...to the police analysts...but is it relevant to the police appeals to the public for help?

He didn't wander off to commit arson, murder, rape or burglary. But we can't rule out more minor infringements such as sleeping in his car while over the limit, or maybe entering a public building that had the door wide open. We also probably can't entirely rule out the possibility that Corrie might be gay/bi and generally hiding this from his hyper-hetero mates at base, and maybe he would willingly get in a car with a gay man for obvious reasons....and that's the sort of thing that could be totally relevant to the case, but is it relevant to the public appeals? And none of these things mean he is/was a 'bad' person.

Complete agree.

But the story isn't put out right (maybe because of the need to "facebook stuff").

Corrie is probably dead.
Most likely murdered.
He had been very drunk...or lacking in judgement

....and we have no idea what his mates thought of him.

I am not talking about a "missing person", I am talking of "a murdered person".

I am interested in Corrie's justice. To get to that, do you not agree there has to be a "complete story".
Warts an all.

I know this. All soldiers don't like each other. All don't get on. It's life. BUT we need honesty here.

 

[Amonet]

I think it's very often the situation that the 'complete story' doesn't come out until a year later during the actual court case.

 

[mrazda71]

I'm sure it's not relevant in this case, but I do remember reading that if a soldier comes back dead, it doesn't matter how big a git he was in life, you only say good things about him. They're human beings, just like the rest of us.

The military do also have a 'cover-up' mode if anything untoward happens, and they might have a tendency to give a 'nicer' story to the family and the public than is actually true.

But how much of that is relevant here? The fact is that there's a person missing for more than a month, and he needs to be found and the reasons for his disappearance need to be found. Corrie could have been a little git, though I don't get that sense at all, but would it be relevant? What pushes his behaviour that night is relevant...to the police analysts...but is it relevant to the police appeals to the public for help?

He didn't wander off to commit arson, murder, rape or burglary. But we can't rule out more minor infringements such as sleeping in his car while over the limit, or maybe entering a public building that had the door wide open. We also probably can't entirely rule out the possibility that Corrie might be gay/bi and generally hiding this from his hyper-hetero mates at base, and maybe he would willingly get in a car with a gay man for obvious reasons....and that's the sort of thing that could be totally relevant to the case, but is it relevant to the public appeals? And none of these things mean he is/was a 'bad' person.

Corrie's mum commented on the FB page today, in response to someone mentioning the 'gay cruising places' and saying they didn't wish to offend ...

Mums response was that Corrie wasn't Gay but that if he were, he would be the most out and fabulously proud to be gay man you would ever meet ...

and I have to agree, I think that Corrie is someone who is very comfortable with his sexuality and I think if he were gay, or bisexual, it wouldn't be something that was hidden from his family or colleagues.

I feel this is somewhat evident in his online presence including his YouTube videos.

 

[Weeobanite]

Corrie's mum commented on the FB page today, in response to someone mentioning the 'gay cruising places' and saying they didn't wish to offend ...

Mums response was that Corrie wasn't Gay but that if he were, he would be the most out and fabulously proud to be gay man you would ever meet ...

and I have to agree, I think that Corrie is someone who is very comfortable with his sexuality and I think if he were gay, or bisexual, it wouldn't be something that was hidden from his family or colleagues.

I feel this is somewhat evident in his online presence including his YouTube videos.

I completely agree with you on this!

 

[Amonet]

Corrie's mum commented on the FB page today, in response to someone mentioning the 'gay cruising places' and saying they didn't wish to offend ...

Mums response was that Corrie wasn't Gay but that if he were, he would be the most out and fabulously proud to be gay man you would ever meet ...

and I have to agree, I think that Corrie is someone who is very comfortable with his sexuality and I think if he were gay, or bisexual, it wouldn't be something that was hidden from his family or colleagues.

I feel this is somewhat evident in his online presence including his YouTube videos.

I can totally imagine that (what you've quoted his mum as saying).

The problem is that the military, despite whatever they want to tell the public, isn't always so accepting. I'm sure there are some guys in the military who couldn't care less what the sexual orientation is of the guys in their team, it's how they do their job that matters. But not everyone will feel that way, and it might make someone want to keep it quiet on base.

With his mum's words, Corrie probably isn't gay or bi, because she lives far from base and she's clearly got no negative judgment of such a thing in her, and she will have shared that to his brothers, so his family, at least, would be a safe place to come out, even if he couldn't do that while he was on base.

So, if Corrie had accepted a lift from a male who predates on men, Corrie would have probably not gone to be a willing participant, he would have to think it was just a simple lift.

Going by what people are saying about Corrie's 'presence' there's nothing to suggest that he's a problem individual. The worst he would be likely to do on a night out that might annoy someone is perhaps to get off with a girl that someone else has his eye on? That isn't going to lead to Corrie's disappearance...that would be more like a fist fight behind the club.

Honestly, if a female had disappeared like this, I think we'd be pretty certain in our minds that she'd likely been abducted by a man for sexual reasons.

What happens in male abductions, disappearances, murders? Do we have any cases for comparison that don't include sex as a motivator?

 

[Weeobanite]

Do you not think that she means he was drinking for an hour and chatting on the phone in his room at the base while he was getting ready to go out? ( that's how I read it )
This would mean that he was drink driving though, which I doubt!
It just dosnt make sense. Unless one of his friends drive his car in to town maybe?

 

[mrazda71]

I can totally imagine that (what you've quoted his mum as saying).

The problem is that the military, despite whatever they want to tell the public, isn't always so accepting. I'm sure there are some guys in the military who couldn't care less what the sexual orientation is of the guys in their team, it's how they do their job that matters. But not everyone will feel that way, and it might make someone want to keep it quiet on base.

With his mum's words, Corrie probably isn't gay or bi, because she lives far from base and she's clearly got no negative judgment of such a thing in her, and she will have shared that to his brothers, so his family, at least, would be a safe place to come out, even if he couldn't do that while he was on base.

So, if Corrie had accepted a lift from a male who predates on men, Corrie would have probably not gone to be a willing participant, he would have to think it was just a simple lift.

Going by what people are saying about Corrie's 'presence' there's nothing to suggest that he's a problem individual. The worst he would be likely to do on a night out that might annoy someone is perhaps to get off with a girl that someone else has his eye on? That isn't going to lead to Corrie's disappearance...that would be more like a fist fight behind the club.

Honestly, if a female had disappeared like this, I think we'd be pretty certain in our minds that she'd likely been abducted by a man for sexual reasons.

What happens in male abductions, disappearances, murders? Do we have any cases for comparison that don't include sex as a motivator?

Corrie's online presence is set to public and easily found with such an uncommon name too so, and just from watching the few YouTube videos he's uploaded, it's very clear to me that he's very comfortable and upfront about sexuality, I'd say he's SO comfortable that he can openly be what some would call 'camp' without it implying that he's gay (if that makes sense) and I get what you're saying about mum/family being safe and far away from his day to day life but I don't think Corrie hides anything, not least his sexuality...

Personally I'm still not convinced that like many missing, drunken young men, he won't be found somewhere relatively close to where he was last seen, having suffered some unfortunate accident.

If there is ANY evidence of it being anything else, the police would be behaving differently I think... and, if there were someone else involved? There almost certainly would be SOME evidence.

In Adrian lynch's case, I like most couldn't believe that he could be behaving as he did (drunken, shouting, walking into a strangers house uninvited) spotted on various cctv and then, just vanish ... how can someone vanish from a small island??? The longer he was missing, the more the conspiracy stories grew - drug dealers, illegal taxis, hit and run and hide his body, he had his passport on him so it was 'obviously planned' but ... he was found in a body of water less than 100 yards from the last sighting and in a place that I believe had already been searched ...

What makes Corrie's case more mind boggling is the lack of him on cctv and the phone pings...

Personally, I'm not upset or having hinky metres going off at the mismatched info coming out ... it's all just different interpretations of what someone has said ... journalists hear the same person speaking and yet each will write a different story ... I'm sure the find Corrie website will lay down some facts soon enough.

I hope for his families sake, they don't have to wait more months or years to find some peace.

 

[Amonet]

I do agree that a drunken accident is still very possible. If the police think that, too, then that would explain a lot of the feelings people are getting that the police don't seem to be doing enough.

The phone pings bother me a lot, though, and they seem to point to something else happening that involved another person or people, and probably a car. I think the bin lorry is a red herring.

The sad thing is that the police could take all the car plates that they've found, trace the owners, do background checks on all those people, narrow down a field of persons of interest, and then what? Without evidence, where do you go then? You can't search someone's house without a warrant, and you can't get a warrant without evidence.

A very small percentage of missing people are probably victims of violent crime, but there was just no evidence trail...exactly like this case.

Most of those missing people are either out living a new life under a new name, or they met with accidents that left no evidence trail ... just like this case.

 

[shank]

His mum is in denial. It is clear that he was gay or bi. I still think his sexuality is a factor in this mystery.

 

[Amonet]

His mum is in denial. It is clear that he was gay or bi. I still think his sexuality is a factor in this mystery.

What signs stand out to you to make you think that, shank?

 

[hermes&&]

What signs stand out to you to make you think that, shank?

I saw a picture if him with his then girl friend. Looked like a happy couple.

But even if he's bi or gay which I have no reason to believe. Does it change anything? We still end up by the bins and no further sightings

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[JamesKing]

Actually "posted" a question last night on the "facebook" page.....

I asked if it could it be clearly verified, in one post that....

#1 Corrie was on the phone chatting and drinking, prior to him leaving on his night out

#2 Corrie was out drinking in pubs and bars 3 hours earlier than was previously reported.

#3 Corrie decided to leave the Flex nightclub of his own accord at (around) 1am.

#4 Whilst Corrie was in the doorway, several passersby stopped to talk to him and check on him.

....and could this new timeline be published.

The response ?

Some question about "Could Corrie have got on the bin truck and fell in" which Nicola replied to !

And then this....

"I will be asking police if they will be carrying out door to door enquires in BSE and searching in the town. If they choose not to then I would like to arrange a properly coordinated search and door to door in Bury"

So basically, the whole request for a clear, truthful and concise timeline has been ignored. And it would appear that the Suffolk Police have conducted this investigation purely as a Missing Person enquiry, wherein the person may have had a road traffic accident (hence the searches along the possible routes to the RAF base) and not as a case wherein a person my have been attacked, abducted or murdered. Interesting ! I wonder what information the police actually have ?

 

[Deleted member 178385]

But even if he's bi or gay which I have no reason to believe. Does it change anything? We still end up by the bins and no further sightings

The only thing it would do is increase the likelihood of a pre-arranged hookup that he wouldn't have told anyone about (if he hadn't come out to his friends yet). Which is another reason his phone might have been pinging in the area it was pinging (a known gay hookup spot, apparently). I guess it would just add weight to that line of enquiry. But I imagine if the police were thinking alone those lines, that area would have been extremely well searched by now.

 

[JamesKing]

The observations therefore are.....

Absent Without Leave
Suicide
Accidental death
Murder
Abduction or kidnap
Psy Op with the agreement of Corrie McKeague

Interesting, I found an article in The Independent stating that, since 2003 17,000 troops have gone Absent Without Leave. That would equate to approximately 2,428 per year.
I have read that the Armed Forces have approximately 160,460 personnel. Which means, the probability of a serving member of the Armed Forces has a 1.5% chance of going Absent Without Leave. That means that 1 in every 66 servicemen/women chooses to go AWOL.

Murder. In 2015 there were 573 murders in that year (in England and Wales). Against a population of approximately 64 million, that's quite a low figure. About 1 in 111,000.

Suicide rates (2014) were 6,122. So about 1 in 10,454.

Whereas Accidents claim around 17,200 per year or 1 in 3,700

Abduction is a hard one to figure out as it it children that mainly get "kidnapped", but figures also include custody battles and such like. I did find one website that quoted a 2011 figure.
That said 273 children were taken by strangers....but adult abductions seem to be so rare, that the figures don't come up easily.


The figures would seem to suggest, in terms of probability per population figure...
AWOL is more likely, then Accidental Death, then Suicide, then Murder. Abduction doesn't really figure.

Just a thought.