UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[Scottishem1]

No need to be nervous Scottishem......this is probably the last place you oughta feel that way as it's purposefully 'gentle' with rules to curb, how shall I put it, over zealous debating!

Your thoughts and contributions are as worthy as anyone else's....remember that and please continue sharing :cheer:

I have a different reason for being short on posts....I resisted signing up here for years because I was already spending too much time looking into the Missing (mostly US cases) Then I spotted this UK search for Corrie (I am ex pat Brit) and I cracked and joined...I can get fully consumed by intrigue but am managing it well...f'now

Thank you very much that's very kind . Yes I am like yourself any free time usually gets spent looking into one case or another when I am in the house. looking forward to more posts from you

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[Amonet]

From the updates I read, SULSAR have already done some searching on the routes from BSE to Barton Mills, the roundabout up there, and the roads coming off the roundabout. I understood the latest update to mean expanding searches in Barton Mills to cover ground within the last ping region that hasn't yet been checked?

 

[MidsummersDay]

So there were two sober drivers and space in both cars for corrie if he needed to get back with them.

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Nope, that's my point. With one full car you would automatically think that the other car would be taking Corrie. With two full cars you would automatically think the the other driver was taking Corrie. See the confusion? Hence the reason why Corrie took his car into BSE!

SPECULATIVE EVENTS OF THE NIGHT:
Late evening
He's on base waiting for a lift and his mates (inadvertently) have left without him! Reluctantly he takes his nice shiny BMW Z4 into BSE and parks it as close to the nightclub bar areas where the lads are already well advanced in the drinking games. Corrie is now playing catch up as he's two pints behind.

After several rounds the alcohol is starting to kick in and Corrie is trying to prove himself. The banter is flying about who thought who was taxiing Corrie into town. Corrie is throwing the slagging back at the gang. Remember he's a 'one man army'. He's boisterous and the gang don't like it. The banter gets heated and turns to mild aggression. Corrie is asked to leave the club and is EJECTED.

0050
Corrie is now frustrated at being ejected from his mates and the nightclub and walks to the Mama Mia kebab shop where he meets an USAF airman in a BLACK TSHIRT. He makes mild conversation whilst waiting for his kebab, chips and burger.

0100
He bids the proprietor goodnight and leaves the kebab shop in the direction of The Grapes pub, bumping into a vagrant along the way. He mentions in a glancing conversation that he's 'walking home'.

0115
Corrie is seen to be 'walking with purpose' past the pub and is caught on CCTV doing so. He's heading towards a shop doorway where he sits in a semi recumbent position And finishes off the remains of his meal. His belly is now full and the cool night air inebriated him further. He dozes after setting an alarm on his watch for 0300. He's done this before and isn't anything unusual.

0308
Corrie sends a picture text to his brother and staggers towards the bin area. He's now dishevelled, full belly and alone.

0324
Corrie is seen jogging towards the bin area. He bumps into an object near the Nailbar and staggers to a leisurely slow walk. He looks cautiously over his shoulder at the Nailbar area. His last events are caught on CCTV.

 

[suzyjackson]

Nope, that's my point. With one full car you would automatically think that the other car would be taking Corrie. With two full cars you would automatically think the the other driver was taking Corrie. See the confusion? Hence the reason why Corrie took his car into BSE!

SPECULATIVE EVENTS OF THE NIGHT:
Late evening
He's on base waiting for a lift and his mates (inadvertently) have left without him! Reluctantly he takes his nice shiny BMW Z4 into BSE and parks it as close to the nightclub bar areas where the lads are already well advanced in the drinking games. Corrie is now playing catch up as he's two pints behind.

After several rounds the alcohol is starting to kick in and Corrie is trying to prove himself. The banter is flying about who thought who was taxiing Corrie into town. Corrie is throwing the slagging back at the gang. Remember he's a 'one man army'. He's boisterous and the gang don't like it. The banter gets heated and turns to mild aggression. Corrie is asked to leave the club and is EJECTED.

0050
Corrie is now frustrated at being ejected from his mates and the nightclub and walks to the Mama Mia kebab shop where he meets an USAF airman in a BLACK TSHIRT. He makes mild conversation whilst waiting for his kebab, chips and burger.

0100
He bids the proprietor goodnight and leaves the kebab shop in the direction of The Grapes pub, bumping into a vagrant along the way. He mentions in a glancing conversation that he's 'walking home'.

0115
Corrie is seen to be 'walking with purpose' past the pub and is caught on CCTV doing so. He's heading towards a shop doorway where he sits in a semi recumbent position And finishes off the remains of his meal. His belly is now full and the cool night air inebriated him further. He dozes after setting an alarm on his watch for 0300. He's done this before and isn't anything unusual.

0308
Corrie sends a picture text to his brother and staggers towards the bin area. He's now dishevelled, full belly and alone.

0324
Corrie is seen jogging towards the bin area. He bumps into an object near the Nailbar and staggers to a leisurely slow walk. He looks cautiously over his shoulder at the Nailbar area. His last events are caught on CCTV.

I agree, this is a very likley summary of the night's events, looking forward to part 2 - 3.24 - 4.00am

 

[JamesKing]

The Silver Car.

Q. Why haven't the police used Camera 09 (provider of CCTV footage release #2) to get the registration number of the Silver car that Corrie spent 2 hours waiting next to ?

A. Because it can't see it !
The car is about 60 foot away from the camera, but the camera is blind to anything within about 120+ foot radius of it's position.

Infact, you could walk from that Silver car....all the way up to where Corrie first emerges on the left hand side and be unseen. That camera wouldn't capture anything.

Add in to that, the fact that "Camera 36"(provider of CCTV footage release #1) didn't see the Silver car leave (they can't provide a "time" that it left), shows that this camera was not looking down Brentgrovel Street. And as Camera 36 in manually operated, it probably wasn't looking in that direct for sometime.


How did Corrie leave Bury unseen ?
He could have easily just walked out of Short Brackland and got into that Silver car. As long as he was inside a radius of about 120+ foot, you would not see him at all !


Edit. The proof of this. The car is there for two hours. And the police can't get it registration number as the only camera that can see it, is too far away

 

[OrlandoJames]

The Silver Car.

Q. Why haven't the police used Camera 09 (provider of CCTV footage release #2) to get the registration number of the Silver car that Corrie spent 2 hours waiting next to ?

A. Because it can't see it !
The car is about 60 foot away from the camera, but the camera is blind to anything within about 120+ foot radius of it's position.

Infact, you could walk from that Silver car....all the way up to where Corrie first emerges on the left hand side and be unseen. That camera wouldn't capture anything.

Add in to that, the fact that "Camera 36"(provider of CCTV footage release #1) didn't see the Silver car leave (they can't provide a "time" that it left), shows that this camera was not looking down Brentgrovel Street. And as Camera 36 in manually operated, it probably wasn't looking in that direct for sometime.


How did Corrie leave Bury unseen ?
He could have easily just walked out of Short Brackland and got into that Silver car. As long as he was inside a radius of about 120+ foot, you would not see him at all !


Edit. The proof of this. The car is there for two hours. And the police can't get it registration number as the only camera that can see it, is too far away

I'm fairly sure it has been suggested elsewhere that the same silver car can be seen in the same spot most days and belongs to a local resident or business owner. If you use google streetview to look on Brentgovel Street (taken from October 2015), a very similar-looking silver car can be seen almost exactly the same spot as the one that Corrie slept next to. I'd be surprised if the police hadn't been in contact with the owner yet - have they said they can't trace it?

 

[Amonet]

I think the main question is exactly how certain you can be that Corrie couldn't have been missed by each camera and whether he disappeared from the loading bay between 3.25 and the time that the bin lorry turned up or if he could have walked out of that bay and disappeared from somewhere else.

 

[JamesKing]

I'm fairly sure it has been suggested elsewhere that the same silver car can be seen in the same spot most days and belongs to a local resident or business owner. If you use google streetview to look on Brentgovel Street (taken from October 2015), a very similar-looking silver car can be seen almost exactly the same spot as the one that Corrie slept next to. I'd be surprised if the police hadn't been in contact with the owner yet - have they said they can't trace it?

Yes, that's what was said !
As far as I was aware they didn't even know what make it was. Or when it left.

As the car travelled down St John's Street (One Way) it should have been seen by cameras in sequence.
Namely 09 over 120 foot away St John's Street, 10 the Bushel pub on St John's Street, 31 Ipswich Road and 36 Station Hill over looking Ipswich Road roundabout.

Since they were looking "for Corrie" and at that stage "not a car", seeing a moving car along that route should have been easy. But they said it was still "as yet unaccounted for".

I have no idea what's going on anymore. Since they say that "Corrie is not seen again by CCTV", you have thought that the logical thing is, he's in a car (which the family thinks).

There are "camera opportunities" in Short Brackland (the loading bay of the Cornhill Shopping Centre and lately the Private CCTV) and all along St John's Street and Ipswich Road....and yet is it to be believed that "they can't see any cars in those areas" at a time of 3.25am onwards.

 

[JamesKing]

I think the main question is exactly how certain you can be that Corrie couldn't have been missed by each camera and whether he disappeared from the loading bay between 3.25 and the time that the bin lorry turned up or if he could have walked out of that bay and disappeared from somewhere else.

It is possible, he could go unseen...as long as he is within a radius of 120 foot.

A car however, would become visible beyond that radius.

 

[c4nd1_83]

No updates from the police or family for a few days now...

Wondering if there is any new leads...


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[jslk]

I find it difficult to understand why anyone would be arguing at a god awful early hour of the morning.

RSBM

In my experience of (sub)urban living the early hours seems to be when the majority of drink fuelled arguments and disorder occurs. JMO.


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[OrlandoJames]

If the recent rumours are correct, and at least one of the properties near the bin area is known for criminality – drugs and/or prostitution – then this has to be an angle the police are looking at closely. It’s not hard to imagine the possible scenarios:

1) Corrie decides to nip down to the bins for a pee, interrupts something illicit or just upsets somebody by relieving himself at the back of their property/near their car, and a violent encounter ensues that gets out of hand.

2) Corrie is talked into heading into the bin area – also a possibility from the CCTV footage – is offered drugs or sex, a disagreement occurs that turns to violence and the same outcome as above.

Uncle Tony talked of ‘at least one’ other as-yet-unidentified vehicle that was seen leaving the area in the CCTV footage that the family obtained. Was that vehicle parked near the bins when Corrie went down there? If so it seems very possible that Corrie was in that vehicle. Or else he was kept in one of the properties for a day or so before being removed when the coast was clear. It has been mentioned (I can’t remember where) that the three teenagers seen in the area may have been there to buy drugs. If they have a connection with the property near the bins, they may well have had something to do with Corrie’s disappearance or just been witnesses who were then intimidated into silence.

Either way, the fact that Corrie was last seen wandering into an area supposedly associated with crime, and therefore likely to be frequented by criminals, seems like it could be more than just a coincidence.

 

[Tricksy]

I'm really getting quite tired of the criticisms levelled at Suffolk Police and some of the misinformation coming out here.

Suffolk Police are not some one horse town outfit. I have personally been involved in two cases, both that have resulted in the perps being jailed for a number of years. On both occasions the serious crime squad were excellent with me. They did not give me a lot of detail until they went in and arrested the perp. Practically every major crime I can think of in this area (eg murders) have been solved.
I also want to clarify another point, the area Corrie disappeared from is not dodgy, it's lonely at night and the flats his uncle talks of, they are not dodgy either. That part of town is residential, the streets near by are residential and I would have no qualms walking down them. I'm basing this on living my life on and off near and in this town. I could list the areas I wouldn't want to go to and those would not be on the list.

I'm not saying Suffolk Police don't or haven't made mistakes but they are not the shambles some people seem to think they are.

 

[suzyjackson]

I'm really getting quite tired of the criticisms levelled at Suffolk Police and some of the misinformation coming out here.

Suffolk Police are not some one horse town outfit. I have personally been involved in two cases, both that have resulted in the perps being jailed for a number of years. On both occasions the serious crime squad were excellent with me. They did not give me a lot of detail until they went in and arrested the perp. Practically every major crime I can think of in this area (eg murders) have been solved.
I also want to clarify another point, the area Corrie disappeared from is not dodgy, it's lonely at night and the flats his uncle talks of, they are not dodgy either. That part of town is residential, the streets near by are residential and I would have no qualms walking down them. I'm basing this on living my life on and off near and in this town. I could list the areas I wouldn't want to go to and those would not be on the list.

I'm not saying Suffolk Police don't or haven't made mistakes but they are not the shambles some people seem to think they are.

It might just be that their problem is their PR approach, they allowed a situation where the general opinion of the family and the majority of posters on a public facebook page with a huge membership was/is that they aren't carrying out the most basic tasks that would be expected i.e. a thorough CCTV analysis, door to door enquires, a search of the rubbish site etc.

Now maybe there are very good reasons for not doing these things but it's easy imo to see why people are having doubts about their competance, I admit to thinking that myself in the absence of much communication from them

 

[MidsummersDay]

It might just be that their problem is their PR approach, they allowed a situation where the general opinion of the family and the majority of posters on a public facebook page with a huge membership was/is that they aren't carrying out the most basic tasks that would be expected i.e. a thorough CCTV analysis, door to door enquires, a search of the rubbish site etc.

Now maybe there are very good reasons for not doing these things but it's easy imo to see why people are having doubts about their competance, I admit to thinking that myself in the absence of much communication from them

Bang on.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Twenty odd years later and the bulldozers have only just been sent in to a property on a sunny villa resort to look for a toddler (Ben Needham). I wonder if s uch energy has/will been thrown into this case?
I'm definitely not questioning the actions of Suffolk Police and I'm sure that all forces have there merits and negatives. It's only natural. But I can't help thinking that they're slow on the uptake with regards to PR. Even guiding people to their website for updates would be a bonus.

 

[JamesKing]

I'm really getting quite tired of the criticisms levelled at Suffolk Police and some of the misinformation coming out here.

Suffolk Police are not some one horse town outfit. I have personally been involved in two cases, both that have resulted in the perps being jailed for a number of years. On both occasions the serious crime squad were excellent with me. They did not give me a lot of detail until they went in and arrested the perp. Practically every major crime I can think of in this area (eg murders) have been solved.
I also want to clarify another point, the area Corrie disappeared from is not dodgy, it's lonely at night and the flats his uncle talks of, they are not dodgy either. That part of town is residential, the streets near by are residential and I would have no qualms walking down them. I'm basing this on living my life on and off near and in this town. I could list the areas I wouldn't want to go to and those would not be on the list.

I'm not saying Suffolk Police don't or haven't made mistakes but they are not the shambles some people seem to think they are.

I think there are elements of the investigation that have been mismanaged and sadly that criticism is levelled at the Suffolk Constabulary. This may be because of the policies and constraints coming from "the management", I don't know. But it is known they entered into a case review early on....and that is never a good sign.

On the 3rd of October, the police along with the family gave a Press Conference....and clearly the information that was being presented (and much seemly later retracted) was "ad hoc".

At this stage, the investigation was still "a missing persons" enquiry. This was strongly reiterated by the police during that conference. He is on record of saying at that time, there is no evidence of third party involvement.

Further to that, he immediately contradicted himself by saying that all CCTV that was local authority owned had been viewed and that there was a team of officers also looking through both business CCTV and private CCTV.

Within virtually the same sentence, he stated that they had looked at all the local authority CCTV and had "come to the end of the line with that" and now must "push forward and look at other CCTV that sits within the town".

Both of those statements contradict each other.

It was later on, when Uncle Tony retrieved CCTV footage from a local street, that criticism levelled at Suffolk police moves from "misleading statement" presented to the public.... to "possible incompetence".

I'm sorry. But those are the facts.

10.55 in this clip.
[video=youtube;ouZCCnULs34]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZCCnULs34[/video]

 

[Tricksy]

It might just be that their problem is their PR approach, they allowed a situation where the general opinion of the family and the majority of posters on a public facebook page with a huge membership was/is that they aren't carrying out the most basic tasks that would be expected i.e. a thorough CCTV analysis, door to door enquires, a search of the rubbish site etc.

Now maybe there are very good reasons for not doing these things but it's easy imo to see why people are having doubts about their competance, I admit to thinking that myself in the absence of much communication from them

I understand where you are coming from, I really do, but I couldn't care less what their PR is like. I'd much rather them spent what resources they actually have investigating this case, than worrying what people think on a facebook page - but call me old fashioned.

As I said before, I have been a witness in a couple of cases, I also know people who work for Suffolk Police and defence lawyers who come up against Suffolk Police all the time and have done for the past 20 years, they are not stupid. They have got some good convictions that have not been turned over on appeal.

 

[Tricksy]

I think there are elements of the investigation that have been mismanaged and sadly that criticism is levelled at the Suffolk Constabulary. This may be because of the policies and constraints coming from "the management", I don't know. But it is known they entered into a case review early on....and that is never a good sign.

On the 3rd of October, the police along with the family gave a Press Conference....and clearly the information that was being presented (and much seemly later retracted) was "ad hoc".

At this stage, the investigation was still "a missing persons" enquiry. This was strongly reiterated by the police during that conference. He is on record of saying at that time, there is no evidence of third party involvement.

Further to that, he immediately contradicted himself by saying that all CCTV that was local authority owned had been viewed and that there was a team of officers also looking through both business CCTV and private CCTV.

Within virtually the same sentence, he stated that they had looked at all the local authority CCTV and had "come to the end of the line with that" and now must "push forward and look at other CCTV that sits within the town".

Both of those statements contradict each other.

It was later on, when Uncle Tony retrieved CCTV footage from a local street, that criticism levelled at Suffolk police moves from "misleading statement" presented to the public.... to "possible incompetence".

I'm sorry. But those are the facts.

10.55 in this clip.
[video=youtube;ouZCCnULs34]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZCCnULs34[/video]

Again, I see that as an error made whilst speaking.

I don't have a problem with the police treating it as a missing persons case, because it looked like it was at first. There is still no conclusive evidence that a third party was involved (though that is what I believe has likely happened).

I appreciate what you are saying, I really do - but a mistake in a press conference does not mean that the whole investigation is flawed and the police are incompetent, as some would have it.

 

[JamesKing]

Again, I see that as an error made whilst speaking.

I don't have a problem with the police treating it as a missing persons case, because it looked like it was at first. There is still no conclusive evidence that a third party was involved (though that is what I believe has likely happened).

I appreciate what you are saying, I really do - but a mistake in a press conference does not mean that the whole investigation is flawed and the police are incompetent, as some would have it.

Forget the error in his speech. The local CCTV was not sought. They never actively "knocked on doors and found out who had it" and that is really bad.