UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[MidsummersDay]

The other thing which is unusual (to add to my notes above) is the terminology that is used.

The question arises "Did Corrie willingly or unwillingly, leave Bury in a car".

Now thinking about this, if the possibility is posed that he may have left Bury in a car "willingly", then it has to follow, based on assumptions from his behaviour, that if he left "willingly" he would have had to be "waiting for two hours".

For example, if he left Flex at 1.00am and was offered a lift home, then that would follow "he left willingly". But as an offer of a lift home, usually comes with an unwritten time-scale ("I'm leaving in a minute, I'll give you a lift back"), then to suggested that "he could have left willingly....two hours later" is almost absurd.

Infact, the suggestion that "he could have left willingly" implies that "there is a possibility that he was offered a lift home at 3.30am" or that "he had a pre-arranged meeting at 3.30am".

I would further argue that, he wasn't going home. That opportunity appears to have been presented to him and refused by him earlier in the evening.

If the possibility that he could have left Bury willingly, then it holds that 1. A meeting of some description had been pre-arranged, possibly for 3.30am and 2. This pre-arranged meeting would have meant he would not be heading back to RAF Honington inanimately.

If that is a "50/50" chance (did he leave "willingly" or "unwillingly"), then addressing the "willingly" part, it may mean that he (along with his phone) were taken to Barton Mills area...and that something happened in Barton Mills area at approx 4.20am which caused his phone to be shut down.

Note.... that doesn't mean that Corrie is now there. It may just mean that he did go there.

I think the word 'ejected' from the club was used (confirmation required please)? If he was ejected from the club that would suggest that he left the club against his will. That means that he would have been happy to continue partying in the club until it closed presumably? But he didn't. He was 'ejected'. Therefore it follows that knowing he was over the drink drive limit he would have to either wait until 0300 (confirmation of club closing time required please) when the club closed and grab a lift with his work colleagues in their cars OR find an alternate mode of transport home (preferably vehicular) by arranging it with another third party.
So, if it's a darkened loading bay where bins are located, I'm guessing the chances are it would be a man or men who had risk assessed the area at an earlier stage in the past. I would have thought for a woman to walk into an environment like that would be highly UNLIKELY but possible.

Additionally, if your 'ejected' from a loud and noisy nightclub you would have little time to confirm your future intentions with the lads. IT would suggest a 'fast ejection' and therefore a breakdown in communication. Remember he's now drunk.its a loud environment and he's being ejected. Once outside the frustration is building and food or sitting on a nearby wall honking off are the only options. He's in a grump and the food option is taken. The comment to a vagrant about 'looks like I'm walking home' comes into play. Walking towards Hughes doorway 'with purpose' also comes into play. He's still frustrated about being drunk with no transport and no mates around him. From 0115-0308 he frantically tries to make contact with them (speculation) and decides to send a picture image to his brother at 0308. Like a naughty schoolboy, he's had two hours to consider his actions and think about being stuck in BSE?
Could he have arranged to meet the lads at the loading bay turnaround near the bins for easy access north towards base and either verbally not get the message across to them still in the club? Or equally try texting them and not get confirmation back from them having chanced his arm and walking towards the bins as its near chucking out time at the club?

 

[MidsummersDay]

Whilst I don't think he bought food for anyone else it would be very helpful to kknow whether the CCTV shows him eating it all

..and how big the portions were :/ (to feed one, two, three...four?)

 

[MidsummersDay]

Nicola has been quite insistent that Corrie didn't intend to fall asleep, if she's right she must mean that he sat down, finished his food (or didn't and CCTV has given the family the answer to this question) and was so tired he nodded off.

JMO and I know I'm in a minority but I don't see a pre-arranged meeting here at all, the pizza place is open till 3, why would anyone choose to wait outdoors? If he didn't mean to fall asleep what did he plan to do until 3.30am?

I can't see the proprietor of the pizza place letting a loud drunk stay on his premises for nearly two hours. Good point though. If he left there at 0100-0115 does that mean that he'd lost track of time and headed towards the bin areas for a lift and then realised that it was earlier than he thought. The 'walking with purpose' suggests to me that an imminent meeting is about to begin (with his workmates from the club?)

 

[suzyjackson]

..and how big the portions were :/ (to feed one, two, three...four?)

In CCTV1 he doesn't seem to be carrying a lot of food, maybe some it had already been eaten inside the pizza place. I don't think you could easily carry all that food, the burgers would likely be in a box, the chips in another box or bag and the kebab again in a 3rd container. IMO you wouldn't fit it all in one box or one hand uneaten but in the video he's doing just that.

 

[PurpleWitch]

The guy with the black tshirt stated that he had shard his pizza with Corrie in Mama Mia. If I'd eaten that lot and had drinks, I'd be looking for somewhere to throw up, never mind have a pee...

 

[JamesKing]

I think there's another option for leaving willingly in a car that doesn't involve any pre-arrangement.

Corrie found himself stranded, he must have realised his friends would have already left as there's no indication that he tried to contact them. He goes for a pee, bumps into someone who starts a conversation and in the course of it offers Corrie a lift. The family have told us that it would be in his character to take a left from a stranger imo that possibility can't be discounted based on what we know

To be honest, the family have told us "many things" to explain his behaviour.
And some of his "behaviours" we were told he had, were later retracted.
1. Walking from Bury to camp 2. Sleeping in a doorway to name but two.

Would Corrie feel "stranded" in a town he's lived in for 3 years ?
A town full of taxis ?

His behaviour is consistent with him being "absolutely drunk or high" OR "waiting for two hours".
And in my opinion, he doesn't look hammered.

 

[MidsummersDay]

In CCTV1 he doesn't seem to be carrying a lot of food, maybe some it had already been eaten inside the pizza place. I don't think you could easily carry all that food, the burgers would likely be in a box, the chips in another box or bag and the kebab again in a 3rd container. IMO you wouldn't fit it all in one box or one hand uneaten but in the video he's doing just that.

Very good point. I didn't notice several packages, polystyrene boxes or otherwise in his mits. That suggests ALL of that food was for him and NOT for his mates he was about to possibly meet. To be honest, I don't think I'd have bought my mates some food and waited around for two hours for it to go cold unless I was meeting them at 0130 in the bin area.

 

[PurpleWitch]

Actually, thinking about it. What if he got a lift from an unlicensed taxi, then threw up having eaten a lot of greasy food and got into an argument with the driver? Could that lead to a fight? Corrie put out of taxi somewhere he doesn't know, in the dark, possibly with no phone as he left it behind and taxi driver not wanting to come forward.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

But you're suggesting that something happened in Short Brackland. There is an opportunity that, that isn't the case.
He could walk out of that area "unseen" by the CCTV camera looking onto that area very easily.

1. It can only "see" 120 foot from it's location. It could not even see the silver cars registration plate.
2. It is on a timed sweep.

Corrie "being unseen by CCTV", merely means "the CCTV camera could not see Corrie".
There's a huge difference in those two statements.

Bold by me.

I'm really not sure this is correct, James. The cameras are what are known as 'PTZ' cameras (Pan, Tilt, Zoom) and I doubt the highly zoomed in shots of the second CCTV footage is typical of its view. I'm not even sure how the zooming and tilting would work if they are (or can be!) placed on a "auto" sweep but would think it would be set to show as much as possible? Also the Police could have had the footage "zoomed in" after the fact so as only to show Corrie?

I did find this highly detailed and technical PDF about the BSE area CCTV upgrade that could be interesting to anyone that understands it all: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...l Performance Specification Revised Scope.pdf

 

[Ironside]

Corrie seems quite physically fit, I've witnessed people who exercise a lot being able to put away a huge amount of food so I don't think the amount of food he got that night is significant.

 

[PurpleWitch]

And i've witnessed fit lads from our hometown throwing up after too much to drink and eat, so the amount of food might be a factor.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Bold by me.

I'm really not sure this is correct, James. The cameras are what are known as 'PTZ' cameras (Pan, Tilt, Zoom) and I doubt the highly zoomed in shots of the second CCTV footage is typical of its view. I'm not even sure how the zooming and tilting would work if they are (or can be!) placed on a "auto" sweep but would think it would be set to show as much as possible? Also the Police could have had the footage "zoomed in" after the fact so as only to show Corrie?

I did find this highly detailed and technical PDF about the BSE area CCTV upgrade that could be interesting to anyone that understands it all: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...l Performance Specification Revised Scope.pdf

Can someone take a screen shot of the camera's views please?

 

[MidsummersDay]

 

[MidsummersDay]

 

[c4nd1_83]

I genuinely can't see (even if it was arranged through a phone app like Tndr) a girl or woman of Corries age (23?) walking down a darkened unlit pedestrian zone into an even darker loading bay to meet a stranger near some bins.

I reckon if this was the case, he was meeting someone who new the area and thus the hazards or risk potential, or a man or men (eg work mates etc?)

She could have been driving. A jealous ex. Stalker. Could have known. I dunno. I am just trying to see all angles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Can someone take a screen shot of the camera's views please?

Sorry, do you mean a Streetview image of the camera?

 

[PurpleWitch]

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Here is the view from Brentgovel/St John:

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Here is a transcript of Corrie's mum's radio interview from last night, in case anyone wants to have a read!

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Here is a transcript of Corrie's mum's radio interview from last night, in case anyone wants to have a read!

Thanks for doing that, CJ. This part stands out:

NU: Well, I've been round, I've had a look at CCTV, I've looked at the area, and it's my opinion that Corrie could not have left there on foot without being seen on CCTV. Now, the police are looking into this to be able to clarify that, but they've obviously got to make sure they are really certain before they can make a statement like that. But they're getting close. So, I think he has ... it's been impossible for him to leave on foot ... and that means he's left in a vehicle. So, it's trying to trace ... and it could have been willingly though - it doesn't necessarily mean straight away that it's been something suspicious. Corrie would go with a stranger.

I will make an assumption that when she says CCTV it means all CCTV, private and council alike, that covers the Short Brackland area.

It is stated in a way that makes it sound like there is complete coverage time wise of that area and if that is so then surely a car is seen?

And that then begs the question why the Police have for so many weeks not even hinted at a car leaving yet they must have known about it for weeks if Nicola is right. Nicola does hint at this with...'So, it's trying to trace..' and then quickly stops herself and changes subject.

Why is this all taking so long is my question?

ETA: I now read this right at the end and am now back to being confused again.....

The Met, the special branch, National Crime Agency, Suffolk Police and the military, have all been trying to find him. And there is not one bit of evidence that they can find. At 3.25, he walks at the back of those houses and he evaporates. There is nothing. And that's just physically not possible. So somebody has seen him. Somebody's either given him a lift or somebody's taken him in a car.