UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #9

[Dcflag]

Someone on here said to me earlier that Corrie was rubbish with phones, so that is why he had a £40 phone rather than an iPhone or Samsung, so maybe he is used to binning them. Just was thinking that under the influence he might have forgotten about a second sim. However, I doubt if he hasn't been deployed that he has had cause to install a second sim.

I'm just going with the attention on the phone being a distraction his actual whereabouts.


No one has mentioned about if there was a tracker on the truck. H&S wise and most companies have trackers on commercial vehicles.

Also, have they actually checked on the rooves in the horse shoe?

This all comes down to the reasoning why I think we should be chipped. If I went missing I would want to be found - if someone took one of my kids I'd want the police hot in pursuit. If you are innocent and honest then you won't mind being locatable (in the right circumstances).

Apparently Whatsapp is very popular in the northern hemisphere / European countries, is that true? I believe Whatsapp uses data (like iMessages) and as such doesn't snow the same trail as an actual text message would (billing or pinging wise). Can a Whatsapp account be logged into on another device showing the history if you don't have the original device? Can the police see what messages he would've sent on Whatsapp?

WhatsApp is completely encrypted. So no way of reading any messages without his phone or the phone of the person he messaged. You can call and now video chat through WhatsApp.

Even if you sign into your WhatsApp on a different phone it doesn't restore previous messages and I think it deletes messages older than 90 days.

The roof has been checked, think there's partial cctv. I remember reading in a msm article about homeless people sleeping up there? But there's nothing on cctv and no evidence he was there.

 

[Antonia]

If, as the police say, cctv coverage of the horseshoe is not 100%, then even if the four vehicles that are known about have been discounted, is it possible he could have left in a different vehicle that evaded cctv?

 

[Henry B]

I can't help wondering about a bin connection... OK, I know it's been discounted and there are long term contributors here who wll have heard all this before, but could it be some tragic accident involving Corrie kipping in a bin and it being emptied? Things do get discounted, of course, but that's not to say they're wrong. Corrie was last seen walking towards the bins. He'd been asleep in Hugh's shop doorway. Could he have been seeking a covered place to sleep until he could drive himself home? Other than that, we only have CCTV evasion (witting or unwitting) or something highly odd. And dear old BSE is certainly not Vice City, Suffolk branch. I know, I know, I'm WRONG, I'm WRONG - it's all been discussed before...

 

[Amonet]

As far as I recall, Caroline Everest went missing on a freezing cold, icy November night. She was wearing only a thin dress with no jacket, so hypothermia wouldn't take too long to set in. But the night Corrie went missing was a relatively warm September evening and there are even people apparently walking around in t-shirt and shorts...not hypothermia conditions.

For the CCTV, the Cornhill camera does look pretty good for picking up people who go by, even across the street. The angle of the camera makes it seem unlikely to me that someone on the far side of the street would be obscured by someone closer to the camera, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

So that leaves turning back toward Greenwoods when that camera is fixed on the storefront side of Greggs (as it was when running man first appears in shot) and somehow evading the next CCTV on that side, or I think there was private CCTV on Short Brackland? We've never seen any footage from that camera and don't know exactly where it's located, so we have an opening, possibly, between the horseshoe and that camera on Short Brackland, and then possible evasion of that camera (I'm not talking about purposeful evasion just chance obfuscation)..

If Corrie could get down Short Brackland unnoticed, then he's into Cannon Street, where I would have expected a lot more traffic and chances to get picked up in a vehicle for a lift.

 

[JamesKing]

It makes sense now....

# TW's request for CCTV outside the original 0800 cut off

# The "it's a complex investigation" phrased used by the police.

I have often wonder why TW has constantly requested a larger CCTV window to be reviewed. Beyond the original cut off.

They believe Corrie left in a car....and there are three cars seen. It would be logical to assume he was therefore in one of those cars.

But if the (or, a) behind the scenes assumption is "he left in a car... but that car may have left well after 0800 (or lately 1200)" then where do they think he was until the time he allegedly departed ?

The CCTV seems "poor". The images of the 12 figures do not seem to come from the "clearer" Council run CCTV.

(7) 0319 from the Market Square to McDonalds (2x figures) Adams cam
(1) 0321 in Cornhill Walk (1x man) Shopping Centre cam
(2) 0321 in Cornhill Walk (2x figures) Shopping Centre cam
(8) 0326 from the Market Square to McDonalds (2x figures) Adams cam
(3) 0335 in Cornhill Walk (1x figure) Shopping Centre cam
(4) 0356 around the area (1x possibly male on a bike) CCTV
(5) 0501 in Cornhill Walk (1x figure) Shopping Centre cam
(6) 0518 in Cornhill Walk (1x figure) Shopping Centre cam
(9) 0520 from McDonalds to the Market Square (1x male) Adams cam

https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/missing-persons/corrie-mckeague

As CCTV goes, these images (excluding the person on the bike) were taken from either

1. Through the doors of the Cornhill Shopping Centre looking onto Cornhill Walk

2. Through the door of Adams looking onto the walk way between the Market Square and McDonalds.

Which means, Cam09 wasn't looking down from Greenwoods at the times stated in these images.

Image "8" taken at 0326 is most telling.

Cam09 must not have been looking down onto Short Brackland at that time as here we have TWO figures walking from the Market Square towards McDonalds, that would probably then appear in Cornhill Walk and be in view of Cam09 on Cornhill walk.

As these TWO figures seem to not "re appear" again on the Cornhill Shopping Centre camera, then it could be assumed the turned right at McDonalds and walked down to the end of that pedestrianised walk way.... unseen !

Thus, the reliance on the CCTV maybe being "over stated".


Edit. And into this mix another 11 people seen in that area that were previously unknown but now have been "identified" and the 3 teenagers, that were identified early on in the investigation.
These are the "individuals" we know of. There may have been more that came forward in the first appeal.

The horseshoe and Cornhill Walk is looking less like an isolated place that it has been described as.

 

[JamesKing]

And "Part Two" (apologies for the long posts).


Where is the evidence that he left in a car ?

The only evidence that he could have possibly moved from the horseshoe area is the phone pinging in Barton Mills.

But the caveat there is "was his phone in the bin which then ended up being collected by the bin lorry".

Assuming his phone wasn't in the bin but on his person...
...we have to conclude the CCTV was lacking and he walked into Short Brackland from the horseshoe area unseen.
Here he got into a car and was driven to the Barton Mills area.

Assuming his phone was in the bin...
...we have to consider the numerous scenarios wherein his phone ended up in the bin AND it has to be in the bin prior to it being collected (assuming it is that bin, it was put in).

These scenarios could be numerous.......
He put it in the bin himself for reasons unknown.
It was left on top of the bin by mistake.
It was taken from him and disposed of in the bin.

But still, in each scenario Corrie then has to be "unseen" (which covers also "not noticed") by cameras. And that may mean "by one camera in particular" as the others don't necessarily mean he evaded them, it just means he didn't pass by them.

His phone not being in the bin offers the easiest explanation.
He had a pee and walked past Cam09 as it looked elsewhere.
That would mean, it is likely he went to the Barton Mills area.
He was meeting someone. He did wait in Bury for 2 hours.

Conclusion. A meeting ? A date ? AWOL ?

His phone being in the bin is hugely complex.
It would have to be in the bin, prior to it's collection. And from that point the speculation can run riot, as we don't know who put it there....or at what time did Corrie depart the area and by what means did he depart once his phone was in the bin.

If he did put it in the bin, then he could still have walked past Cam09 unseen...and departed the area. That would be AWOL.
And he would have likely departed the area pretty soon after.
(If he'd changed clothing, he could be "image three" @ 0335)

If he didn't put it in the bin, then it was forcibly removed from him by physical means or by a threat. The phone ends up in the bin and latter in Barton Mills.
But where did this "third party" come from. It appears "he" also was unseen arriving !
And when did "they" depart the horseshoe area. And how.

Conclusion. His phone being disposed of in the bin by a third party who was also in the horseshoe is actually more complex than the other scenarios that can be thought of.
1. A third party has to arrive.
2. Force or a substantial threat has to be used.
3. An attack must be unseen by passersby
4. An attack must never come in view of CCTV
5. The attacker must have a reason to take Corrie away
6. No recoverable forensic evidence must remain
7. The attacker and Corrie have to leave the horseshoe, either together of separately (if deceased) at some point before the police search the area (and an attacker would not know when Corrie would be reported missing).

Overall Conculsion
In light of the three vehicles seen in the horseshoe, which now appear to be discounted (not knowing how that was achieved) it could be speculated that Corrie could have arranged to meet someone and been driven to the Barton Mills area. The reasons for this meeting seem varied, but they could include, to go AWOL or a date of some kind.

Note... AWOL would mean he disposed of his own phone, although this is not exclusive to that theory. And a date or meeting of some description (inc AWOL) would mean he and his phone went together to the Barton Mills area.

Just my opinion and speculation.

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

Just another observation - Corrie ordered lots of food and left the takeaway with it and sat in the doorway of Hughes to eat it BUT if you look at the cctv footage of him where he walks past the grapes pub... it appears he is only carrying a chip tray? This has bugged me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hazel324]

And "Part Two" (apologies for the long posts).


Where is the evidence that he left in a car ?

The only evidence that he could have possibly moved from the horseshoe area is the phone pinging in Barton Mills.

But the caveat there is "was his phone in the bin which then ended up being collected by the bin lorry".

Assuming his phone wasn't in the bin but on his person...
...we have to conclude the CCTV was lacking and he walked into Short Brackland from the horseshoe area unseen.
Here he got into a car and was driven to the Barton Mills area.

Assuming his phone was in the bin...
...we have to consider the numerous scenarios wherein his phone ended up in the bin AND it has to be in the bin prior to it being collected (assuming it is that bin, it was put in).

These scenarios could be numerous.......
He put it in the bin himself for reasons unknown.
It was left on top of the bin by mistake.
It was taken from him and disposed of in the bin.

But still, in each scenario Corrie then has to be "unseen" (which covers also "not noticed") by cameras. And that may mean "by one camera in particular" as the others don't necessarily mean he evaded them, it just means he didn't pass by them.

His phone not being in the bin offers the easiest explanation.
He had a pee and walked past Cam09 as it looked elsewhere.
That would mean, it is likely he went to the Barton Mills area.
He was meeting someone. He did wait in Bury for 2 hours.

Conclusion. A meeting ? A date ? AWOL ?

His phone being in the bin is hugely complex.
It would have to be in the bin, prior to it's collection. And from that point the speculation can run riot, as we don't know who put it there....or at what time did Corrie depart the area and by what means did he depart once his phone was in the bin.

If he did put it in the bin, then he could still have walked past Cam09 unseen...and departed the area. That would be AWOL.
And he would have likely departed the area pretty soon after.
(If he'd changed clothing, he could be "image three" @ 0335)

If he didn't put it in the bin, then it was forcibly removed from him by physical means or by a threat. The phone ends up in the bin and latter in Barton Mills.
But where did this "third party" come from. It appears "he" also was unseen arriving !
And when did "they" depart the horseshoe area. And how.

Conclusion. His phone being disposed of in the bin by a third party who was also in the horseshoe is actually more complex than the other scenarios that can be thought of.
1. A third party has to arrive.
2. Force or a substantial threat has to be used.
3. An attack must be unseen by passersby
4. An attack must never come in view of CCTV
5. The attacker must have a reason to take Corrie away
6. No recoverable forensic evidence must remain
7. The attacker and Corrie have to leave the horseshoe, either together of separately (if deceased) at some point before the police search the area (and an attacker would not know when Corrie would be reported missing).

Overall Conculsion
In light of the three vehicles seen in the horseshoe, which now appear to be discounted (not knowing how that was achieved) it could be speculated that Corrie could have arranged to meet someone and been driven to the Barton Mills area. The reasons for this meeting seem varied, but they could include, to go AWOL or a date of some kind.

Note... AWOL would mean he disposed of his own phone, although this is not exclusive to that theory. And a date or meeting of some description (inc AWOL) would mean he and his phone went together to the Barton Mills area.

Just my opinion and speculation.

ok, so just to clarify....where was Corrie and what was he doing for the half hour 3.25-3.55..?

 

[JamesKing]

ok, so just to clarify....where was Corrie and what was he doing for the half hour 3.25-3.55..?

No idea where he was.
We haven't got any data to suggest that.
Ping data I've read varies from 0400, 4020, 0430,
The "last ping data" goes from 0420 to 0800.

It depends who's saying what (and that changes) and what day of the week it is !

...and the fact "ping data" isn't accurate of course. It doesn't always follow that it's the closest mast it relays from.

 

[Muriel MayBee]

For the sake of argument let's rule out 3rd party involvement in the horseshoe area. What do we have?

A) he binned his own phone with the intention of suicide.

B) he accidentally binned his phone and tried to walk home, falling victim to some kind of accident.

C) he either accidentally or intentionally binned his phone and walked to a pick up point and went awol (so short brackland for instance, but he could have realistically got further in residential estates with no cctv) or he had his phone on him whilst doing this

D) he unintentionally binned his phone, walked a way and then hitched a lift in the opposite direction to honington or had his phone with him

E) he unintentionally or intentionally binned his phone and walked to a meeting point (again short brackland/residential) and got into a car to mildenhall for an intended purpose, or he kept his phone.

If it's true vehicles are discounted we are looking at on foot at least part way. I wonder if it's worth researching bse locally again for a body? And which is more likely dependant on whether he was waiting or whether he wasn't (so accidentally falling asleep and not waiting)?

I think if you're suicidal you probably wouldn't eat or certainly not the quantities he tucked away that night. Could that be a clue to what he was intending next? Do men tuck away a kebab and chips, plus two burgers?

 

[Dcflag]

And "Part Two" (apologies for the long posts).


Where is the evidence that he left in a car ?

The only evidence that he could have possibly moved from the horseshoe area is the phone pinging in Barton Mills.

But the caveat there is "was his phone in the bin which then ended up being collected by the bin lorry".

Assuming his phone wasn't in the bin but on his person...
...we have to conclude the CCTV was lacking and he walked into Short Brackland from the horseshoe area unseen.
Here he got into a car and was driven to the Barton Mills area.

Assuming his phone was in the bin...
...we have to consider the numerous scenarios wherein his phone ended up in the bin AND it has to be in the bin prior to it being collected (assuming it is that bin, it was put in).

These scenarios could be numerous.......
He put it in the bin himself for reasons unknown.
It was left on top of the bin by mistake.
It was taken from him and disposed of in the bin.

But still, in each scenario Corrie then has to be "unseen" (which covers also "not noticed") by cameras. And that may mean "by one camera in particular" as the others don't necessarily mean he evaded them, it just means he didn't pass by them.

His phone not being in the bin offers the easiest explanation.
He had a pee and walked past Cam09 as it looked elsewhere.
That would mean, it is likely he went to the Barton Mills area.
He was meeting someone. He did wait in Bury for 2 hours.

Conclusion. A meeting ? A date ? AWOL ?

His phone being in the bin is hugely complex.
It would have to be in the bin, prior to it's collection. And from that point the speculation can run riot, as we don't know who put it there....or at what time did Corrie depart the area and by what means did he depart once his phone was in the bin.

If he did put it in the bin, then he could still have walked past Cam09 unseen...and departed the area. That would be AWOL.
And he would have likely departed the area pretty soon after.
(If he'd changed clothing, he could be "image three" @ 0335)

If he didn't put it in the bin, then it was forcibly removed from him by physical means or by a threat. The phone ends up in the bin and latter in Barton Mills.
But where did this "third party" come from. It appears "he" also was unseen arriving !
And when did "they" depart the horseshoe area. And how.

Conclusion. His phone being disposed of in the bin by a third party who was also in the horseshoe is actually more complex than the other scenarios that can be thought of.
1. A third party has to arrive.
2. Force or a substantial threat has to be used.
3. An attack must be unseen by passersby
4. An attack must never come in view of CCTV
5. The attacker must have a reason to take Corrie away
6. No recoverable forensic evidence must remain
7. The attacker and Corrie have to leave the horseshoe, either together of separately (if deceased) at some point before the police search the area (and an attacker would not know when Corrie would be reported missing).

Overall Conculsion
In light of the three vehicles seen in the horseshoe, which now appear to be discounted (not knowing how that was achieved) it could be speculated that Corrie could have arranged to meet someone and been driven to the Barton Mills area. The reasons for this meeting seem varied, but they could include, to go AWOL or a date of some kind.

Note... AWOL would mean he disposed of his own phone, although this is not exclusive to that theory. And a date or meeting of some description (inc AWOL) would mean he and his phone went together to the Barton Mills area.

Just my opinion and speculation.

Put better than I have! In my opinion he either put his phone in the bin intentionally or it went with him. I'm not a believer of accidental binning, the bins aren't open top unless in use and I feel if left on the bin lid is 80% more likely to end up on the floor than in the bin.

The point you make about a third party on foot binning the phone is also true, you have to assume the altercation happened without witnesses and isn't vehicle where did he go? I just can't imagine someone tipping him in a bin without being detected for the weekend

 

[JamesKing]

All we have is...

The travel time between Bury and Barton was "28 minutes".
What that means in terms of phone/mast data I have no idea.

The phones travel time "loosely correlates" (said the police) with the bin lorry's movements. So they must have "the collection time" and the "time the motion camera on the Five Ways Roundabout".

If the "28 minutes" relates to the bin lorry or the phone or both, I have no idea. That information has never been released or clarified.

 

[Dcflag]

ok, so just to clarify....where was Corrie and what was he doing for the half hour 3.25-3.55..?

In my opinion he left the horseshoe pretty quickly after entering and walked, he must have done?

 

[JamesKing]

Put better than I have! In my opinion he either put his phone in the bin intentionally or it went with him. I'm not a believer of accidental binning, the bins aren't open top unless in use and I feel if left on the bin lid is 80% more likely to end up on the floor than in the bin.

The point you make about a third party on foot binning the phone is also true, you have to assume the altercation happened without witnesses and isn't vehicle where did he go? I just can't imagine someone tipping him in a bin without being detected for the weekend

I agree about "he misplaced it" isn't really an option, but I thought I'd throw it in to be considered.


Getting bundled into a car in the horseshoe (and then the phone binned), was one option.... but that option appears to have gone now. The cars have been discounted.

 

[JamesKing]

In my opinion he left the horseshoe pretty quickly after entering and walked, he must have done?

(8) 0326 from the Market Square to McDonalds (2x figures) Adams cam

That timing maybe relevant.
If that is the only CCTV of those people AND those people carried on in the direction they were heading, it shows Cam09 wasn't looking onto Short Brackland.

Corrie has a pee... and crosses from the loading bay area to Short Brackland proper. He could walk down a bit from there.

Interestingly, in the second CCTV footage that was released, he was over to the left hand side of the alleyway.
He then moves right and heads towards the bins. Was his initial thought to head down Short Brackland but instead headed for a quick pee ?

 

[Dcflag]

I agree about "he misplaced it" isn't really an option, but I thought I'd throw it in to be considered.


Getting bundled into a car in the horseshoe (and then the phone binned), was one option.... but that option appears to have gone now. The cars have been discounted.

Agreed. In my opinion we're more likely left with phone binned and awol/intentions of suicide or phone went with him and he walked to get a lift/awol

The thing is walked for a lift could still mean something bad has happened. Awol id expect pre planned lift.

That's assuming the vehicles are completely discounted. Hopefully we get more confirmation soon.

 

[Lolabear]

Could he of walked out the horseshoe area using the bin lorry as a cover? If he walked at the far side of the lorry he would be hidden from the camera and also from potential witnesses.

 

[JamesKing]

Agreed. In my opinion we're more likely left with phone binned and awol/intentions of suicide or phone went with him and he walked to get a lift/awol

The thing is walked for a lift could still mean something bad has happened. Awol id expect pre planned lift.

That's assuming the vehicles are completely discounted. Hopefully we get more confirmation soon.

Hopefully, we'll get confirmation soon.

AWOL/Meeting/Date all fall in the same category, in my opinion, at this moment.

The ping data, travel times, bin lorry movements also need clarity.
Importantly "where the lorry went to" is also a mystery. The police initially said that the phone ceased to transmit at 0800 and it was stationary to that point.

If the lorry continued on after it reached Barton Mills, yet the phone remained stationary for several hours, then clearly that would be evidence to suggest that the phone was unlikely to be in the bin lorry.

 

[JerricaBenton]

From his position in Hughes doorway, would he be able to see a vehicle pull up into the horseshoe?
The vehicle would have either been there earlier than 3.08am if he could see, or else he would have gone up to it earlier.

 

[Pinkpuma]

(8) 0326 from the Market Square to McDonalds (2x figures) Adams cam

That timing maybe relevant.
If that is the only CCTV of those people AND those people carried on in the direction they were heading, it shows Cam09 wasn't looking onto Short Brackland.

Corrie has a pee... and crosses from the loading bay area to Short Brackland proper. He could walk down a bit from there.

Interestingly, in the second CCTV footage that was released, he was over to the left hand side of the alleyway.
He then moves right and heads towards the bins. Was his initial thought to head down Short Brackland but instead headed for a quick pee ?

I agree, as he was walking down on the left it is quite likely that he could've just decided that the Horseshoe looked a good place to pee (or worse, empty his bowels after all that food.... not a pleasant thought, but it has crossed my mind that someone already in the area, that he couldn't see, may have caught him in the act and this caused a confrontation) I still think it's more likely he was going to pee and stumbled across some dodgy people who had a car there. I'm seeing the reporting of the cars traced and discounted as an error until that is clarified by the police or family.