UK- Costessey, 4 People Found Dead In Home

[JennieM]

Things like this don't just affect the immediate family, but also neighbours and friends. Schoolfriends of the children must be very upset.

Heartbreaking :-(

On Friday evening, the school sent parents an email informing them of the death of one of their pupils.

"I thought it was better to tell my seven-year-old boy about what happened," he said.

"I was a bit surprised by his reaction. He was a bit shocked but what can I do? I don't want him to find out from his friends or from school on Monday."

Norwich: Police failed to respond to 999 call from deaths house

Norfolk Police says it is not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[StillDiggin]

Police update
Detectives investigating the deaths of four people in Costessey, near Norwich, have confirmed they are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.

The bodies of two young girls, a 36-year-old woman and a 45-year-old man, were found in a house on Allan Bedford Crescent yesterday morning (Friday 19 January 2024).

Police had received a call shortly before 7am from a member of public who raised concerns for the welfare of people inside. Officers arrived at around 7.15am and forced entry to the address.

Since then, detectives from the Norfolk and Suffolk Major Investigation Team have been working to establish the circumstances surrounding the deaths.

Detective Chief Inspector Chris Burgess, who is leading the investigation, said: “We’ve spoken to witnesses and neighbours, carried out house-to-house enquiries, examined local CCTV and completed initial scene investigations. As a result of this, we’re not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.

“Post-mortem examinations will be carried out tomorrow for the man and woman (Sunday 21 January) and on Wednesday (24 January) for the two girls. While I can confirm all four people were found with injuries, we will not be disclosing any further information until these examinations have taken place and the cause of death has been established.

“This is a tragic incident, distressing for all involved and it is clear from the reaction it’s caused a lot of shock and upset in the local community. We’ve had uniformed officers patrolling the area today and these will continue tomorrow.”

Yesterday, police confirmed the man and two children lived at the address while the woman, although related, was visiting and not a permanent resident at the address.

Formal identification is yet to take place and the next of kin continues to be supported by specialist officers. A police cordon also remains in place.

The incident was initially referred to the Independent Office of Police Conduct (IOPC) yesterday due to police contact at the address on 14 December, relating to a missing person enquiry.


Earlier today, the constabulary made a second referral to the IOPC concerning a 999 call made at 6am yesterday by the man at the address, prior to the incident, which didn’t result in the deployment of officers.

The IOPC will assess the circumstances of the call and determine the appropriate level of investigation required. As a result, no further information relating to the circumstances of this call will be released at this time.

https://www.norfolk.police.uk/news/norfolk/news/news/2024/january/costessey-deaths---investigation-update/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Of course.
But the outcome in THIS case is terrible.
Children are DEAD.

I don't want to argue.
But, it is not common that a mentally disturbed parent is the SOLE carer of minor children.

Who was taking care of kids when father went missing in December?

Was sister in law a legal guardian?

JMO

Define "mentally disturbed" because there are a lot of single parents out there who have mental health issues and the law (at least in the US) is clear that they cannot remove children just because a parent has a mental health problem. I am assuming the UK has similar laws, but that is JMO based on my US expertise in this area.

 

[Sall2021]

Of course.
But the outcome in THIS case is terrible.
Children are DEAD.

I don't want to argue.
But, it is not common that a mentally disturbed parent is the SOLE carer of minor children.

Who was taking care of kids when father went missing in December?

Was sister in law a legal guardian?

JMO

Where does it state he was mentally disturbed?

 

[QB2022]

Define "mentally disturbed" because there are a lot of single parents out there who have mental health issues and the law (at least in the US) is clear that they cannot remove children just because a parent has a mental health problem. I am assuming the UK has similar laws, but that is JMO based on my US expertise in this area.

Yes, absolutely the same in the UK

 

[Cardgame]

I would be horrified to find out that the man made a 999 call saying he was scared he would harm his kids and police ignored it. Let's hope that could never be the case. Let's HOPE.

Surely it's more likely they missed a subtle nuance that with hindsight they should have caught, eg a context, recognition of a coercive 'reporting' of another member of the household? This is a tactic often used to coerce or threaten victims into submission. IMO police should also have picked up on this as a tangible threat, but I would more easily believe they didn't than that they would actually ignore an explicit threat to kids lives.

Where is the mother?

 

[Cardgame]

Yes, absolutely the same in the UK

The relationship between mental health and domestic violence is really tricky tho. Alot of domestic violence is hidden from authorities and may never be picked up.

 

[Smccat]

I wonder could the mother have gone back to Thailand and family have said you need your kids with you.
Maybe the father had reason to believe (or was just petrified) SIL was going to take the kids back there when his back was turned.
Jmo as a possible.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[Telltale]

A lot of police forces are pushing 'Right care right person' at the moment. Basically refusing mental health calls without an apparent risk of immediate harm and redirecting to ambulance/NHS.

If the father did call about something mental health related but didn't say anything that suggested there was immediate danger to himself or others, it's possible he would have been told to call the mental health crisis line.

 

[Yellowbelly]

Yes, absolutely the same in the UK

Would you not expect that if the mother had disappeared (back to Thailand?), and the father had gone missing to the extent that the police had had to look for him, and that while he was gone the children were being looked after by the sister-in-law (presumeably), that the police would have got the local Social Services department involved. I've not seen it reported that Norfolk/Norwich Social Services were aware of any issues involving the welfare of the children.

 

[JennieM]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

[…]

Officers said post-mortems would be held on Sunday to find the cause of the deaths of the man and woman.

[…]

Post-mortems on the two girls will take place on Wednesday.

[…]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

Norfolk Police says it did not respond to a 999 call from the home where four family members died.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Would you not expect that if the mother had disappeared (back to Thailand?), and the father had gone missing to the extent that the police had had to look for him, and that while he was gone the children were being looked after by the sister-in-law (presumeably), that the police would have got the local Social Services department involved. I've not seen it reported that Norfolk/Norwich Social Services were aware of any issues involving the welfare of the children.

I think he was only missing for a matter of hours on December 14. And that it was only after this date that sister in law came to stay.
I may be wrong though - could just be how I read the articles.

Editing this post to say that media reports have now been snipped for the December incident as police do not want to discuss it further whilst they are under investigation. So I can't find the info that said BK disappeared and was found on the same day. Therefore, it is possible he was gone for a longer time.

Also, it seems at least one media outlet is reporting that Nanthaka was still living at the house - see my post 95.




This is the best wording I can find - it is open to interpretation as to how long he was missing.



He confirmed that officers had been called to the same house on 14 December as part of a missing persons inquiry.
That incident will be re-examined as part of the investigation, he added.

Neighbours said Mr Kuczynski himself had been reported missing and that police had used a drone to search the area with the father later found safe.

Father found dead with young daughters 'went missing in run up to Christmas’

Forensic teams are continuing investigations at the house where the bodies of a man, woman and two young girls from the same family were discovered.

www.edp24.co.uk

 

[Skigh]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

[…]

Officers said post-mortems would be held on Sunday to find the cause of the deaths of the man and woman.

[…]

Post-mortems on the two girls will take place on Wednesday.

[…]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

Norfolk Police says it did not respond to a 999 call from the home where four family members died.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if the girls' post mortem has been arranged for later in the week to give time for their mother to visit and to pay her last respects .

 

[Alyce]

Some neighbours have reported not seeing Mr Kuczynski's Thai-born wife Nanthaka for months and said her sister recently moved into the family home.

But this newspaper understands Nanthaka had been living at the home and her sister had not moved in.

Father found dead with young daughters 'went missing in run up to Christmas’

Forensic teams are continuing investigations at the house where the bodies of a man, woman and two young girls from the same family were discovered.

www.edp24.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

I wonder if the girls' post mortem has been arranged for later in the week to give time for their mother to visit and to pay her last respects .

I was thinking that they are doing the adults’ post mortem first to help them establish who was the perp? Whereas the girls are both victims and their post mortems are less of a priority?

 

[Skigh]

Some neighbours have reported not seeing Mr Kuczynski's Thai-born wife Nanthaka for months and said her sister recently moved into the family home.

But this newspaper understands Nanthaka had been living at the home and her sister had not moved in.

Father found dead with young daughters 'went missing in run up to Christmas’

Forensic teams are continuing investigations at the house where the bodies of a man, woman and two young girls from the same family were discovered.

www.edp24.co.uk

Does that imply she was in the home when the attacks took place?

 

[Dotta]

Everything we know about Costessey deaths – from 999 call to 'beautiful' sisters

Everything we know about the mysterious quadruple tragedy including a timeline of events, tributes to the 'beautiful' sisters and how police failed to respond to a 999 call on the morning of the incident

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[Popcorn80]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

[…]

Officers said post-mortems would be held on Sunday to find the cause of the deaths of the man and woman.

[…]

Post-mortems on the two girls will take place on Wednesday.

[…]

Norwich: Post-mortems to take place after four bodies found

Norfolk Police says it did not respond to a 999 call from the home where four family members died.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if it’s down to finding a Pathologist who will have a specific qualification to carry out a child post mortem.

 

[QB2022]

Would you not expect that if the mother had disappeared (back to Thailand?), and the father had gone missing to the extent that the police had had to look for him, and that while he was gone the children were being looked after by the sister-in-law (presumeably), that the police would have got the local Social Services department involved. I've not seen it reported that Norfolk/Norwich Social Services were aware of any issues involving the welfare of the children.

Generally, if he had made arrangements to ensure the children were safe during his crisis then no. There may well have been a referral made to CMHT and social services notified but the bit they would focus upon is the safety and wellbeing of the children. Things like a support network (ie SIL) are also positive things. I wouldn't expect social services involvement based on disappearing a few hours if he had ensured the children were safe

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The relationship between mental health and domestic violence is really tricky tho. Alot of domestic violence is hidden from authorities and may never be picked up.

I think we need to be careful in assuming a relationship between mental health and domestic violence. Sometimes, criminality is just criminality and there is no definable or diagnosable relationship. Other times, mental illness played zero role in the violence. The vast majority of people struggling with mental health issues are not violent.