GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

Nice to see you PrimeSuspect

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[Tortoise]

A bit more here about JG perverting the course of justice from a news article dated 5th May 2015 when the trial was originally scheduled to start - (then the trial was expected to last 3 months - this was before JG admitted the charge of perverting)

Quote - His wife Jennie Gray, 35, also faces the charge of cruelty which states the pair "wilfully assaulted, ill treated or neglected Ellie Butler in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health as a result of a fractured scapula".
Gray is further charged with perverting the course of justice between October 27 and 30 2013.
She was accused of washing the shirt she had been wearing on the day of Ellie's death and then lying by saying the one she had been wearing was pink or white and had been left on her bed or hanging on a clothes rack.
And she was not truthful when she told police she returned home that day "for reasons unconnected with concerns for the welfare of Ellie" and that she had "no concerns for Ellie's welfare until immediately after the police were called", according to the charge. - End quote


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...aces-daughter-murder-trial.html#ixzz489UkMvWs

 

[Tortoise]

CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK [video=twitter;729617155650621440]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/729617155650621440[/video]City of London, London
Murder suspect Ben Butler accuses pathologist of cremating his dead daughter 'behind our back' in an extraordinary rant from the dock.

 

[cottonweaver]

A bit more here about JG perverting the course of justice from a news article dated 5th May 2015 when the trial was originally scheduled to start - (then the trial was expected to last 3 months - this was before JG admitted the charge of perverting)

Quote - His wife Jennie Gray, 35, also faces the charge of cruelty which states the pair "wilfully assaulted, ill treated or neglected Ellie Butler in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health as a result of a fractured scapula".
Gray is further charged with perverting the course of justice between October 27 and 30 2013.
She was accused of washing the shirt she had been wearing on the day of Ellie's death and then lying by saying the one she had been wearing was pink or white and had been left on her bed or hanging on a clothes rack.
And she was not truthful when she told police she returned home that day "for reasons unconnected with concerns for the welfare of Ellie" and that she had "no concerns for Ellie's welfare until immediately after the police were called", according to the charge. - End quote


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...aces-daughter-murder-trial.html#ixzz489UkMvWs

That's interesting - she washed HER shirt. I assumed it was his clothes she washed. So maybe Ellie was moved .
Previously I also found this - regarding trial delays

3 june 2014 court appearance at old bailey . BB was expected to enter a plea. No pleas possible due to “legal complication”. ( he appears by video link) Reporters est trial will take place n easter 2015

on 5 oct 2015 trial is pushed back again , est now to occur 5th april 2016
on 5 april 2016, it could not start today. Another delay ( of a day IIRC) due to “legal argument”

 

[cottonweaver]

CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK [video=twitter;729617155650621440]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/729617155650621440[/video]City of London, London
Murder suspect Ben Butler accuses pathologist of cremating his dead daughter 'behind our back' in an extraordinary rant from the dock.

WOW! he twists everything so wouldn't believe a word he says - presume he expected to attend her funeral?!

 

[Tortoise]

WOW! he twists everything so wouldn't believe a word he says - presume he expected to attend her funeral?!

I hope we get more reporting today.

According to lawpages court started at 10:05, witness number 38 sworn in. Tea break @ 11:03. Court resumed at 11:20 (rant tweeted at 11:21) witness no. 39 sworn in at 11:24 - so presumably this was witness no. 39 he shouted at as he was in the witness box waiting to be sworn in. I hope the judge reprimanded him.

 

[cottonweaver]

I hope we get more reporting today.

According to lawpages court started at 10:05, witness number 38 sworn in. Tea break @ 11:03. Court resumed at 11:20 (rant tweeted at 11:21) witness no. 39 sworn in at 11:24 - so presumably this was witness no. 39 he shouted at as he was in the witness box waiting to be sworn in. I hope the judge reprimanded him.

12.30 break for lunch
BB given a talking to by his solicitor. 12.31 BB tells his solicitor to STFU 12.45 JG attempts to film witness 39 as he leaves court.

no, i'm not serious - just imagining the fall out

 

[Gigi-G]

A bit more here about JG perverting the course of justice from a news article dated 5th May 2015 when the trial was originally scheduled to start - (then the trial was expected to last 3 months - this was before JG admitted the charge of perverting)

Quote - His wife Jennie Gray, 35, also faces the charge of cruelty which states the pair "wilfully assaulted, ill treated or neglected Ellie Butler in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health as a result of a fractured scapula".
Gray is further charged with perverting the course of justice between October 27 and 30 2013.
She was accused of washing the shirt she had been wearing on the day of Ellie's death and then lying by saying the one she had been wearing was pink or white and had been left on her bed or hanging on a clothes rack.
And she was not truthful when she told police she returned home that day "for reasons unconnected with concerns for the welfare of Ellie" and that she had "no concerns for Ellie's welfare until immediately after the police were called", according to the charge. - End quote


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...aces-daughter-murder-trial.html#ixzz489UkMvWs

Thank you Tortoise.
I think the media have jumped the gun there. I don't think they've ever been married. And from some excerpts from media. I think they only lived together off and on. I'll see if I can find his/her addresses. Throughout.

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[Gigi-G]

CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK [video=twitter;729617155650621440]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/729617155650621440[/video]City of London, London
Murder suspect Ben Butler accuses pathologist of cremating his dead daughter 'behind our back' in an extraordinary rant from the dock.

Wth? Umm is this standard does anyone know?
Or something the next of kin. (Apart from BB & JG) maybe grandparents could of requested?
As I'm assuming the other sibling is back with them now?

Gosh. and what did he exactly expect from kicking off in court re Ellie's cremation?
Ahhhh maybe they were going to set up a go-fund-me page for a glorious funeral for Ellie.
Bit ironic that.
Jmoo.

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[cottonweaver]

Thank you Tortoise.
I think the media have jumped the gun there. I don't think they've ever been married. And from some excerpts from media. I think they only lived together off and on. I'll see if I can find his/her addresses. Throughout.

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"wife" ! Well spotted eagle-eyes
It's the DM getting stuff wrong again.

 

[Gigi-G]

That's interesting - she washed HER shirt. I assumed it was his clothes she washed. So maybe Ellie was moved .
Previously I also found this - regarding trial delays

3 june 2014 court appearance at old bailey . BB was expected to enter a plea. No pleas possible due to “legal complication”. ( he appears by video link) Reporters est trial will take place n easter 2015

on 5 oct 2015 trial is pushed back again , est now to occur 5th april 2016
on 5 april 2016, it could not start today. Another delay ( of a day IIRC) due to “legal argument”

I think maybe it was both of their shirts.
I'm sure I seen a press clipping saying he changed his clothes putting the others into the washing machine. Now...
We have also read previously that JG'S blood was found splattered over walls etc as well as Ellie's. Maybe JG changed her shirt also because BB might of given her a slap. Maybe becuz she had gone hysterical over what she found with Ellie's lifeless body. He had to convince her to hold it together to organise a plan.

Again jmoo

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[Gigi-G]

WOW! he twists everything so wouldn't believe a word he says - presume he expected to attend her funeral?!

Yes I presume as per my other post that he would of set up a funding page (we know he likes to put on a good front)
And give Ellie a big send off.
Maybe the Grandparents got wise to him. I can't say I blame them. He controlled every aspect of her in life. Why should he when in actual fact he cared so lil to snuff her life out like a candle.
I do hope the sibling stays with them now. And over the years can try to erase these horrid memories

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[Gigi-G]

I hope we get more reporting today.

According to lawpages court started at 10:05, witness number 38 sworn in. Tea break @ 11:03. Court resumed at 11:20 (rant tweeted at 11:21) witness no. 39 sworn in at 11:24 - so presumably this was witness no. 39 he shouted at as he was in the witness box waiting to be sworn in. I hope the judge reprimanded him.

I hope so to. does it not state who witness 38 and 39 was? Or are they privy to remain secret?

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[Gigi-G]

12.30 break for lunch
BB given a talking to by his solicitor. 12.31 BB tells his solicitor to STFU 12.45 JG attempts to film witness 39 as he leaves court.

no, i'm not serious - just imagining the fall out

@.@



Ooh.

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[cottonweaver]

Wth? Umm is this standard does anyone know?
Or something the next of kin. (Apart from BB & JG) maybe grandparents could of requested?
As I'm assuming the other sibling is back with them now?

Gosh. and what did he exactly expect from kicking off in court re Ellie's cremation?
Ahhhh maybe they were going to set up a go-fund-me page for a glorious funeral for Ellie.
Bit ironic that.
Jmoo.

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I think the local authority would have informed the mother for certain - she is on bail and is innocent til proven guilty. I am sure she would have been entitled to attend , maybe even same for him.
I bet the pair both dragged their feet on the approval, ignored the contacts and then suggested they wanted a burial. ( There may not be many options for burials down there and I assume the local authority also covered the costs. )

Younger child may well be back in foster or already adopted with another fantastic family, 3 years on. ( Imagine she would have hardly met those grandparents as she was fostered elsewhere and we all guessed that relationships with the gparents was not great during the fight to get the kids returned, so little contact. And I guess their bereavement would have been pretty traumatic in 2013)
I don't doubt they have had /will have future contact with her
Best wishes for the little sister's recovery too.

 

[Gigi-G]

Yes yes the local authority has grants for funeral expenses. I'm not entirely sure who would of made the final decision on the cremation or burial. I'd be interested to find out.
And agreed I'm sure they'd of dragged their heels.
Re a go fund me page. I was pandering to BB'S Narcissistic side. Her funeral being the final item he could/would intervene on. You know the pretty casket loads of flowers etc etc. I think that's one reason why he flipped.. THAT decision was taken away from him.
So Ellie would of had a small gathering with words of love. All quiet and peaceful. Unlike her life of the last 11 months

Jmoo.

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[cottonweaver]

I think maybe it was both of their shirts.
I'm sure I seen a press clipping saying he changed his clothes putting the others into the washing machine. Now...
We have also read previously that JG'S blood was found splattered over walls etc as well as Ellie's. Maybe JG changed her shirt also because BB might of given her a slap. Maybe becuz she had gone hysterical over what she found with Ellie's lifeless body. He had to convince her to hold it together to organise a plan.

Again jmoo

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Just tried to re-check the links . Most of the reports say "clothes were put in the wash". Not specified as to whose clothes. However Daily star says this "Ellie's clothing was washed and Butler destroyed documents revealing him to be violent by dumping them in communal bins some distance from their house, the prosecution said" http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...er-trial-court-dad-Ben-Butler-mum-Jennie-Gray
( Pls correct me if anyone knows better on this)

BIB Maybe you're right indeed - this is all we got reported on that, as pasted previously

SUTTON The bloodstains of a six year old girl were found throughout her home after she was murdered by her father, a court heard Little Ellie's pillow was found stained with her blood after she was allegedly battered to death by frustrated house husband Ben Butler, 36, at their Sutton home. Blood on a sofa cushion in the living room was also found to match her DNA profile after she suffered catastrophic head injuries similar to those caused by a high-speed car crash on 28 October 2013, the Old Bailey has heard. The girl's mother Jennie Gray, 36, left a trail of her own blood spatters along the walls of the hallway outside Ellie's bedroom to upstairs bathroom Today (Thurs) forensic scientist Andrew Bell told jurors that the blood patterns appeared to be 'recent' and could have been caused by an 'impact' to Gray. 'Wet dilute blood from Ellie Butler had been deposited onto the pillow,' said Mr Bell. 'In my opinion a bleeding Jennie Gray or an object wet with her blood had dripped blood onto the floor of Ellie Butler's bedroom and that drip-blood trail continued along the hallway into the bathroom.

- See more at: http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?page=2#sthash.lRGy17PX.dpuf

we presume recent means date Ellie died but it is unclear.

 

[Gigi-G]

Just tried to re-check the links . Most of the reports say "clothes were put in the wash". Not specified as to whose clothes. However Daily star says this "Ellie's clothing was washed and Butler destroyed documents revealing him to be violent by dumping them in communal bins some distance from their house, the prosecution said" http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...er-trial-court-dad-Ben-Butler-mum-Jennie-Gray
( Pls correct me if anyone knows better on this)

BIB Maybe you're right indeed - this is all we got reported on that, as pasted previously

- See more at: http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?page=2#sthash.lRGy17PX.dpuf

we presume recent means date Ellie died but it is unclear.

Indeed.. we are given sparse details to go on. Whereas I'm sure the Jury will have chance to visualise crime scene photos. And hear more in depth evidence from CSO's who'd been working the case.

I do not envy this Jury one lil bit.
Such a harrowing case must lay heavy on their mind/heart.
I do hope they're offered counselling after. I'm sure they are.
I think even though the ages are markedly different.
But the Becky Watts case was very hard going on the Jury. I'm sure I read somewhere they were given assistance after.

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[cottonweaver]

Indeed.. we are given sparse details to go on. Whereas I'm sure the Jury will have chance to visualise crime scene photos. And hear more in depth evidence from CSO's who'd been working the case.

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snipped

if JG blood impact spatter was "recent" ie 28 oct, , how come we have heard nothing about any recent injuries found on JG after she was arrested on ?
Surely the forensics would have done a full exam of her for forensic purposes and picked up her "cuts"? or is this yet to come in the trial sequence?

 

[Gigi-G]

I've noticed also that... in everything regarding Ellie. Even from the very first trial. Everything regarding all of this is out of BB'S mouth. And that is it effects ME ME ME!
The first trial. HE was wrongly accused. So HE sets about making a case to take to court. Telling JG to do the same and research to. HE wanted HIS name cleared.
HE won HIS trial. HE was vindicated.
HE was even going to sue the Judge who presided on HIS case. And the Police. For wrongful arrest.
HE and JG managed to get a 10 minute slot on a National TV show. Telling HIS story. Which on a big show like that gave him positive feedback with those who agreed with HIM. And HIS wrongful arrest and trial and the way HIS family were persecuted.

Fast forward 4+ years. HE still thinks HE can get away with it. Again HE is slating the Police. Education Officials. CSO's. Shaking his head from Evidence put forward.
HE is even blaming Peppa Pig.
I wouldn't even put it past HIM to pass the blame onto JG. In his desperation to gain his bid for freedom. And now Ellie has been Cremated in a quiet Ceremony. HE flipped in the box while a witness was giving a statement.

It's ALL ME ME ME ME ME ME !

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