GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

I found this particularly harrowing. But I find it valuable in the time frame and injuries. As it's not very often you find a 'first responder' to be devastated at finding an injury like that. Someone described it as 'a boggy mass.'
Sorry for being graphic but let's not fool ourselves here.
ELLIE was a 6 year old bundle of fun and energy. From descriptions from her neighbours sending tributes. And she met her death in the ONE place where she should feel safe. And safer still being her bedroom.
She was as light as a feather in weight. So she stood no chance against her so called 'DOTING' daddy. Who was almost 6ft and a hefty guy just looking at him.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-battered-six-year-old-daughter-to-death.html

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[Tortoise]

Do you have a link for that, or was that evidence you heard in court?

The bleed into the nasal passage was evidence I heard in court.

 

[cottonweaver]

http://m.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/10771894.Tributes_paid_to__amazing__little_girl_Ellie_Butler/

So sad ):

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In there it also says the investigation was handled by Homicide & Major CrimeCommand- IDK who which team investigated the 2007 assault - maybe taking no chances after last time.

BBC did a really good short series "The Detectives" where they followed cases like this - those police interviews and detective opinions would be fascinating to hear.

 

[Gigi-G]

In there it also says the investigation was handled by Homicide & Major CrimeCommand- IDK who which team investigated the 2007 assault - maybe taking no chances after last time.

BBC did a really good short series "The Detectives" where they followed cases like this - those police interviews and detective opinions would be fascinating to hear.

I think that's why they got the two teams in. Mind you reading round on the www. They are still pushing for the Peppa the Pig fall... with the nursery rhyme.
But seriously though. With a head trauma as bad as the first responder said.
That was no fall off of a plastic chair less than 12 inches off the ground..
BB would love that. He'd of represented himself And JG. However......moving on. That is entirely my own opinion.

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[Tortoise]

I think that's why they got the two teams in. Mind you reading round on the www. They are still pushing for the Peppa the Pig fall... with the nursery rhyme.
But seriously though. With a head trauma as bad as the first responder said.
That was no fall off of a plastic chair less than 12 inches off the ground..
BB would love that. He'd of represented himself And JG. However......moving on. That is entirely my own opinion.

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I know, it's beyond belief. In any case, it doesn't account for the two blows to the head.

 

[Tortoise]

I wish the reporters would actually report on the evidence, rather than just focusing on this tantrum in the dock.

 

[Gigi-G]

I know, it's beyond belief. In any case, it doesn't account for the two blows to the head.

Exactly. The reports of her head injuries are very disconcerting. This poor lil girl must of had almost daily beatings.
Did I read that her lil head was almost fractured all around.
What I don't understand is why. Why pick on Ellie?
Why not the sibling?
This is really bugging me. Because I've found no reasons no answers to why?
Even the naughtiest of children doesn't deserve a punch like you'd throw at a boxer. Or a back hander I'd be more inclined to believe.
I've trawled the net n found nothing not an iota.
Anyone?

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[Gigi-G]

I wish the reporters would actually report on the evidence, rather than just focusing on this tantrum in the dock.

Yes. Agreed. Altho I did catch a report from Andreas that he read out once the court had quietened.

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[flutterby]

Evening all.

Wish I could say I'm surprised by the tatrum, but it's exactly what I'd expect after the events I saw in the court.

I also can't keep track of all these head injuries. Poor Ellie. How did the school not notice anything?

 

[Tortoise]

Exactly. The reports of her head injuries are very disconcerting. This poor lil girl must of had almost daily beatings.
Did I read that her lil head was almost fractured all around.
What I don't understand is why. Why pick on Ellie?
Why not the sibling?
This is really bugging me. Because I've found no reasons no answers to why?
Even the naughtiest of children doesn't deserve a punch like you'd throw at a boxer. Or a back hander I'd be more inclined to believe.
I've trawled the net n found nothing not an iota.
Anyone?

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I really think it has to do with her being the child he was convicted over, and her being old enough to know what he was doing was wrong, and having a bit of spirit about her. As it's in their list - she was answering back.

But on the other hand it's not the first time I've heard of a family scapegoat.

I think it's worse than punching - more like banging her head into walls so he could say she'd fallen. I think punches would leave other obvious marks of manhandling.

I don't even like seeing those family pictures, because to me in most of them Ellie looks like she is being kept out of the cuddle, behind him and sibling, having to muscle her way in on the fun. It could just be the photographer's styling/choice though.

 

[cottonweaver]

more random bits

one of her previous net search terms:

She also allegedly made a series of internet searches such as "I wish I was dead because he hurts me so much and nobody really cares about me"

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...-BenButler-Jennie-Gray-messages-listed-faults

As he claims this was an accident whilst he was the only adult there, I will be interested in hearing him put his account of that afternoon to the jury, why she was already in her PJs and what time he had last seen her alive, and what led him to specifically believe she had fallen down seeing as he had not heard anything. ( Can't remember what time he said he fed her Chewits etc.) EDIT - he reckons it was 11.30 am


Why on earth did they miss an incriminating letter on top of bedroom cabinet, in their elaborate cleanse? in link below
the link below is quite good as it also prints the 999 transcript again
http://uk.jakophite.com/father-accu...ailed-for-attacking-her-and-39-News~6756.html


Anyone know if Monday 28th was start of half term hols week in Sutton? Where I am it was but I appreciate regions are different.

Whatever sentences they receive, they will not get an easy time in prison.

 

[Supernovae]

The bleed into the nasal passage was evidence I heard in court.

Do you remember anything else from that witness?

 

[Tortoise]

Do you remember anything else from that witness?

sorry I don't catch your meaning.

I've been twice, first was two pathologists and second was head master. I posted all I could remember as soon as I got back, but that piece of info only came back to me today when the topic of Ellie bleeding from the mouth/nose came up.

 

[Gigi-G]

I really think it has to do with her being the child he was convicted over, and her being old enough to know what he was doing was wrong, and having a bit of spirit about her. As it's in their list - she was answering back.

But on the other hand it's not the first time I've heard of a family scapegoat.

I think it's worse than punching - more like banging her head into walls so he could say she'd fallen. I think punches would leave other obvious marks of manhandling.

I don't even like seeing those family pictures, because to me in most of them Ellie looks like she is being kept out of the cuddle, behind him and sibling, having to muscle her way in on the fun. It could just be the photographer's styling/choice though.

Thank you. Yes I hadn't thought about the manhandled. And yeah there would of been tell tale marks. Altho forensics found a number of imprints that would match grappling marks or grabbing.
When you think of the injuries she sustained. The fractured scapula. She's obviously had more and recent head trauma by going on autopsy reports. I've got a fairly good pain threshold. This lil one must of been in excruciating pain. Did she never cry. Never scream out in pain?
The housing they lived in was pretty much compact. With neighbours living close by. I'm guessing they either played ignorant not wanting to be involved. Or just didn't hear anything.
Why is it i keep hearing Munschausism. And no I can't spell that correctly and my auto correct doesn't want to play cuz I think I've confused it.
Munschausism syndrome? Anyone ..

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[Gigi-G]

I really think it has to do with her being the child he was convicted over, and her being old enough to know what he was doing was wrong, and having a bit of spirit about her. As it's in their list - she was answering back.

But on the other hand it's not the first time I've heard of a family scapegoat.

I think it's worse than punching - more like banging her head into walls so he could say she'd fallen. I think punches would leave other obvious marks of manhandling.

I don't even like seeing those family pictures, because to me in most of them Ellie looks like she is being kept out of the cuddle, behind him and sibling, having to muscle her way in on the fun. It could just be the photographer's styling/choice though.

BTW I'm with you on the pictures. They look very unnatural and false. Like the smiles weren't genuine it was put on.

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[Tortoise]

Anyone think the ear pinning might be a way he could cover up damage to Ellie's skull? Say it could have been caused during surgery?

 

[Gigi-G]

more random bits

one of her previous net search terms:


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...-BenButler-Jennie-Gray-messages-listed-faults

As he claims this was an accident whilst he was the only adult there, I will be interested in hearing him put his account of that afternoon to the jury, why she was already in her PJs and what time he had last seen her alive, and what led him to specifically believe she had fallen down seeing as he had not heard anything. ( Can't remember what time he said he fed her Chewits etc.)


Why on earth did they miss an incriminating letter on top of bedroom cabinet, in their elaborate cleanse? in link below
the link below is quite good as it also prints the 999 transcript again
http://uk.jakophite.com/father-accu...ailed-for-attacking-her-and-39-News~6756.html


Anyone know if Monday 28th was start of half term hols week in Sutton? Where I am it was but I appreciate regions are different.

Whatever sentences they receive, they will not get an easy time in prison.

Can Google Sutton schools term times. I'd of grabbed them but we've mega storms going on here and it's thrashing my Internet. Grrr

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[Gigi-G]

Anyone think the ear pinning might be a way he could cover up damage to Ellie's skull? Say it could have been caused during surgery?

I think Cottonweaver and I discussed this the other day. Yes of course. Or we thought that it would of logged a trip to the doctors. To hush up cover up Ellie being off of school.
Or to that effect

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[Gigi-G]

Anyone think the ear pinning might be a way he could cover up damage to Ellie's skull? Say it could have been caused during surgery?

Pps.. I also think it was a rouse becuz with the injuries Ellie had. There's no way they'd put Ellie in hospital. The injuries would of been picked up straight away.

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[Gigi-G]

In response to Cottonweaver saying they won't get an easy time inside..... I feel awful for saying this as I'm not a violent person. But you know.... I hope BB gets a taste of his own medicine. But they'll both be segregated on a 'safe' wing. Like he was before he was 'inside' where he claimed he was with all the nonces and child abusers that he couldn't even look at let alone talk to.
News for you BB and JG. You are just like them!

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