GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[cottonweaver]

She said that she wasn't coming home and would go to a church or a refuge. And then there was a whole 3 months (Apr to Jun) with no phone communications. Appreciate that could be 'cos she used a different phone, but then why go back to using the old phone again after.

I didn't know that Tortoise. All I had was this

16 March text "He promised not to be violent but Gray said she wouldn’t return because he had beaten her up, and she would seek refuge in a church."as I subsequently thought this was an odd thing to say as the most obvious step would be to go to a women's refuge! ( ie. she was bluffing really, she wasn't going to seek help)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...er-beat-partner-during-miscarriage-trial-told

Interesting ( esp with 3 month text silence) though if she actually did but had felt unable to tell him she was going to a proper refuge.

 

[Tortoise]

I didn't know that Tortoise. All I had was this

16 March text "He promised not to be violent but Gray said she wouldn’t return because he had beaten her up, and she would seek refuge in a church."as I subsequently thought this was an odd thing to say as the most obvious step would be to go to a women's refuge! ( ie. she was bluffing really, she wasn't going to seek help)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...er-beat-partner-during-miscarriage-trial-told

Interesting ( esp with 3 month text silence) though if she actually did but had felt unable to tell him she was going to a proper refuge.

Sorry, I think the problem is with my wording rather than my knowledge here - I wasn't sure on her exact wording and that's why I said 'church or a refuge' - I think they are the same thing, I don't think she was planning on sleeping in a church, but a refuge run by a church, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think it's clear yet what she did or where she was, but it does sound like he beat her up quite badly. There was a text about her eyes and her face coming back, and another one about her jaw, head and neck I think.

 

[squish]

Sorry, I think the problem is with my wording rather than my knowledge here - I wasn't sure on her exact wording and that's why I said 'church or a refuge' - I think they are the same thing, I don't think she was planning on sleeping in a church, but a refuge run by a church, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think it's clear yet what she did or where she was, but it does sound like he beat her up quite badly. There was a text about her eyes and her face coming back, and another one about her jaw, head and neck I think.

Are there any other texts you remember from court last week, that haven't been reported about in the media?

 

[Tortoise]

Are there any other texts you remember from court last week, that haven't been reported about in the media?

I wasn't there when the texts were gone through squish. I'm sure they will go through them all again though when they cross-examine BB and JG.

 

[Gigi-G]

I didn't know that Tortoise. All I had was this

16 March text "He promised not to be violent but Gray said she wouldn’t return because he had beaten her up, and she would seek refuge in a church."as I subsequently thought this was an odd thing to say as the most obvious step would be to go to a women's refuge! ( ie. she was bluffing really, she wasn't going to seek help)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...er-beat-partner-during-miscarriage-trial-told

Interesting ( esp with 3 month text silence) though if she actually did but had felt unable to tell him she was going to a proper refuge.

I'm assuming then. There was no cancer ovarian or bowel? As it hasn't been mentioned since. Or Crohns? That would be more feasible. And a doc could

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[Gigi-G]

Hope the doctor can do something to make you feel better soon Gigi x

Thank you he's just been. I actually fell asleep... not like me. Not for 3 hors during the day lol. I've got some new pills to try... oh yayyy! Lol.

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[Gigi-G]

Sorry, I think the problem is with my wording rather than my knowledge here - I wasn't sure on her exact wording and that's why I said 'church or a refuge' - I think they are the same thing, I don't think she was planning on sleeping in a church, but a refuge run by a church, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think it's clear yet what she did or where she was, but it does sound like he beat her up quite badly. There was a text about her eyes and her face coming back, and another one about her jaw, head and neck I think.

It seemed as if she was of a kind of religious nature. By addressing her prayers to God ect.
Maybe she'd seek peace and solace in a Church setting.
Maybe thru experience she knew the Church could refer her to a woman's refuge. I know they are quite secretive. Due to the majority of the women in there suffering from DV with violent dangerous partners.
I think she's probably sought this out before when things have gotten bad. Or have spoken. To someone involved with the Church. Was going to go through with leaving him but didn't go thru with it.

Or maybe she did. Would explain those quiet few months.
She could of sugar coated the cancer scare and used that as a she can't see anyone due to the medication. Or use her fone to it harbouring germs.
It could make sense.


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[Gigi-G]

Are there any other texts you remember from court last week, that haven't been reported about in the media?

There are 16 pages of texts. I'm assuming normal printer size paper. That's a few 1000 texts.
We've just seen a snippet. Literally.
Once they're in their entirety you'd probably make sense.


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[Gigi-G]

I'm assuming then. There was no cancer ovarian or bowel? As it hasn't been mentioned since. Or Crohns? That would be more feasible. And a doc could

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***prescribe***

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[Gigi-G]

Maybe BB was going to throw something like this up to cover tracks.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/92189-overview

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[Supernovae]

It doesn't seem like things are going any better for him:

h ttps://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732507688630947841

h ttps://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732517248515112964

I wonder if he has any medical evidence to back up these claims:

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/killer-dad-claims-partner-split-jaw/?fb_ref=7JSkRc74_R-Twitter

 

[Legally Bland]

First few tweets from today. No idea whether it's still defence or cross-ex.

[video=twitter;732507688630947841]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732507688630947841[/video]

Ben Butler uses Rainbow analogy to describe partner Jennie Gray as 'not submissive like George' but 'confrontational like Zippy'

 

[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;732516391656562688]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732516391656562688[/video]

KILLER DAD CLAIMS PARTNER SPLIT HIS JAW - Court News UK http://scl.io/zCXMUZkB via @getsocial_io

 

[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;732517248515112964]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732517248515112964[/video]

CourtNewsUK‏@CourtNewsUK
Man accused of battering his six-year-old daughter to death claims he never did anything more than 'tap her on the bum' to discipline her

 

[Legally Bland]

Sorry Supernovae, I hadn't seen your post when I started typing.

 

[Legally Bland]

Still being questioned by his defence.

Ben Butler, 36, confessed he had “minor violent altercations” with his on-off partner Jennie Gray throughout 2013, the year his daughter, Ellie, was found with “catastrophic” head injuries normally found in a high-speed car crash. He said arguments with Gray involved pushing and shoving but that they had never drawn blood.

He protested that the prosecution had portrayed Gray as a victim of abuse who was afraid of him. “It’s not the situation the prosecution are saying. When I’m not doing what she wants we’ll argue and she’ll get in front of you face, at times pushing and shoving.”

More at link.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-butler-admits-he-was-violent-towards-partner

 

[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;732545523803127808]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732545523803127808[/video]

CourtNewsUK‏@CourtNewsUK
Father accused of battering daughter to death looks to the heavens from the Old Bailey witness box and says: 'I'm sorry I let you down.'

 

[Legally Bland]

Bit in the Sun:

Butler told jurors he was so scared about anything happening to Ellie that he phoned his solicitor after she had a 'fall' months before her death.

He described how she tripped over and suffered a bump on her head in June 2013.

"It's one of our biggest fears. We panicked. At 9 o'clock I called my solicitor.

"Look at what we have been through man, f***ing hell, this was our biggest fear.

"We were fighting to add 'miscarriage of justice' onto hospital records so every time we went to hospital we wouldn't have a problem.

"This was our biggest fear. I said, 'Ellie's just fallen over, I was panicking.'"

Butler said he took his daughter to the doctor who looked at him like "I was f***ing mad".

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-but-claims-it-was-only-a-tap-on-the-bum.html

I'm reading it like legal advice for BB & JG was more of a priority than medical advice for Ellie.

 

[Legally Bland]

Daily Mail:

In June, Ellie tripped over a Hoover and bumped her head, knocking her glasses askew, Butler said, adding: 'It was one of our biggest fears in our house.'

Then in October, Ellie had another incident involving their Jack Russell puppy Minnie.

Butler was worried about being blamed for any bruises because of the history, he said.

He told jurors he had never done anything that would make Ellie frightened of him.

Asked if he ever hit his daughter, Butler said he only ever 'tapped her bum'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-admits-violence-partner.html#ixzz48uqE4emr

 

[Legally Bland]

Giving evidence for a second day, Butler told how Gray had acted "crazy" in early 2013.

In March, she had an abortion after suffering an ectopic pregnancy.

Addressing his attitude at the time, Butler said: "For me it was a no-brainer - how could we have another child and risk what we had got?"

When she came out of hospital, Gray was "destroyed", he said.

Butler told jurors he felt angry and their relationship got so bad they were sleeping in separate rooms.

Read more: http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/...olent-towards-partner-1-7386354#ixzz48urChUYK