GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Alyce]

It's also possible that whatever plan he had didn't work because something happened that meant Helen didn't ingest the drug at the time he had planned her to. If you remember her mum's evidence, she had breakfast and then woke up 5 hours later at lunch time. If that was at say 1pm then she had to have had the tablet before 8am. On 11th April Helen was awake all morning, so she obviously hadn't been drugged early. So it's possible she made her own food or drink at breakfast and his plan was thwarted. Maybe he had to wait for elevenses to get her to take it.

I think he did have it planned that morning purely because he had that appointment, and he wanted that morning appointment as an alibi to say he was out of the house. It went wrong because he couldn't control Helen's morning intake of food/drink, perhaps he had planned to smother Helen, leave her in situ while he went out, then move her to the garage when he got back, so he was forced to move his appointment, and he couldn't get a new appointment to coincide with the time that Helen must have fallen into a drugged stupor, when her online activity suddenly ceased.

That makes perfect sense.

He thought the surgery would just say come on over now - so all he had to do was make a few more taps on Helen's Ipad to show her still on line right up to 11.30, when he departs the house.
Then does the moving of bodies when he gets back.

 

[Tortoise]

Hi all, new here and brought by Helen to web sleuths. I followed her blog since the start and always loved a new posting from her. It is so true that as a reader you felt you knew her in a way that is different from others. It must be very comforting to her family and friends to know that people care enough to follow this so closely and have such considered discussions.

So much I want to comment on but my first thought was the 'not fit' for court... If he does have some sort of personality disorder, which it certainly does to me, it is very common to constantly divert attention towards themselves. This could be as an excuse to get people to look after him, making him the centre of attention, V to pay the victim or as a tool to avoid conflict and facing up to anything he has to take responsibility for. Feigning illness to avoid someone being too angry at you etc. This could just be him using it as his default mechanism to get people to feel sorry for him, gain some attention (woefully lacking to him now in prison) , an escape mechanism to avoid facing what he's done or a cynical ploy to show the jury he has wavering health. Or combination of all. I have had the misfortune of watching a good friend disentangle from a chronic narcissist and one striking thing when he got caught out was his immediate rush to 'work on' the people left who were vulnerable to his lies or important in some way to meaning he didn't walk away with nothing. I'm wondering if IS's target is now the jury. Hope this all makes sense. Will post more stuff later re observations about relationships that stand out for me.

Welcome Stumpyaura!

Excellent post. I agree with everything you've said. This is all about how he reacts when he is not in control. He needs control. I need to look back and see what evidence they heard that day before he went ill. I don't think it's about the evidence they were due to hear the next day, but something he had already heard that made him lose his sense of power.

 

[LozDa]

Whilst I think without doubt he is guilty, with respect to his abdominal surgery it is very likely he has been told not to lift anything for 3 months. That is how long it takes for the internal surgery to fully repair. The skin repairs very quickly, usually within 7-10 days. Like you I have had abdominal surgery, twice in fact. The first time I found it difficult to walk for a week and was most definitely very sore for at least two weeks after that and on the second occasion I could still feel that I had had surgery after some weeks, again the skin had completely healed in a very short time. With abdominal surgery for bowel cancer he could well have had a fairly large wound externally and internally. I am unsure whether keyhole surgery is done for suspected bowel cancer but if it is the recovery time will be faster. I would give him the benefit of the doubt here.

He also seems to suffer from dysphagia which can be caused by many illnesses but if he is weak as well he may have an autoimmune condition known to cause this problem but unless we see the medication he is on it would be difficult to even guess whether that is the case. I believe the son/s referred to previous long term illness. I don't feel they would have a reason to be dishonest about this.

I do, however, believe he would make the most of any illness because it is in his interest to do so.

Yes, agreed that surgeries and reactions to surgeries are different. My grandmother, for example, had cancer of the intestine and after a pretty major operation (aged 72), was back at the local church at one of the respite clubs cooking and serving for the old(er) folks after two weeks! There is literally no telling her!

But yes, definitely in his interest to make the most of any illness.

All of this is just wondering and theories, as none but IS know exactly what happened when and how.

 

[Cherwell]

I've brought this up again because Royston to Cambridge is 13 miles. If his stitches were sore after a 13 mile trip, I wonder how he got on with the 240 mile Royston to Broadstairs round trip. And again, the 150 mile trip to Leatherhead and back to see Helen's Investment Advisor.

I think we can safely assume from this that IS was most definitely giving the impression to his sons that he was in more pain than he actually was.

Yes, I noticed that too!

When the son said,
“He’d come to Cambridge and I thought it was the first time he’d travelled that distance. He told me his stitches were sore from sitting in the car for so long."

I checked the distance from Royston to Cambridge, and found that as I'd thought, it would have taken half an hour at most.

 

[michelle230]

I wouldn't be surprised now by a sudden guilty plea. He's heard just the beginning of evidence against him, emotionally he cannot cope with it and the only way out of that is suicide or to end the court case with a guilty plea.

The overriding problem, amongst many others, in pleading guilty, is that it will result in ever deeper examination of his first wife`s death.
On the reverse side, if he is found guilty, but still refuses to confess, then it will affect him in terms of the length of his sentence and being able to, (years down the line), apply for parole. In my understanding anyway - as consideration for parole includes questioning whether the culprit has accepted responsibility for his crimes.
Michelle

 

[LozDa]

I wouldn't be surprised now by a sudden guilty plea. He's heard just the beginning of evidence against him, emotionally he cannot cope with it and the only way out of that is suicide or to end the court case with a guilty plea.

The overriding problem, amongst many others, in pleading guilty, is that it will result in ever deeper examination of his first wife`s death.
On the reverse side, if he is found guilty, but still refuses to confess, then it will affect him in terms of the length of his sentence and being able to, (years down the line), apply for parole. In my understanding anyway - as consideration for parole includes questioning whether the culprit has accepted responsibility for his crimes.
Michelle

Exactly. If you're found guilty but continue to say you didn't do it, it's the legal version of not saying you're sorry.

Question though: if he's found guilty, does this automatically give just cause to look into the first wife's death? I assume that's what they're waiting for in order to probe into that one?

 

[mrazda71]

It may be the unpopular vote but, I'm willing to believe that (having been seen by a doctor too) that he may just be genuinely unwell.
Gastrointestinal issues are often exacerbated by stress so it may well be the case.

 

[MillyM]

Welcome Stumpyaura!

Excellent post. I agree with everything you've said. This is all about how he reacts when he is not in control. He needs control. I need to look back and see what evidence they heard that day before he went ill. I don't think it's about the evidence they were due to hear the next day, but something he had already heard that made him lose his sense of power.

Hearing/seeing his sons?

 

[mbmc]

Hearing/seeing his sons?

I think that must have had a real impact, given that JS has not seen him since he has been in prison, and Michelle (WS member) said sons did not look at him.

It's hitting home now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[michelle230]

And wanted to add that the justice being bestowed on him now, in terms of the total fragmentation and disintegration of himself, (with no escape) is greater justice than any that could be bestowed by being jailed. This is a narcissist`s worst scenario. The false ego being exposed (in this case, mega exposed).
The annihilation of self.
Michelle

 

[michelle230]

Exactly. If you're found guilty but continue to say you didn't do it, it's the legal version of not saying you're sorry.

Question though: if he's found guilty, does this automatically give just cause to look into the first wife's death? I assume that's what they're waiting for in order to probe into that one?

LozDa,

I would imagine so. However it may be difficult to prove even though there are deeply questionable circumstances.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, I noticed that too!

When the son said,
“He’d come to Cambridge and I thought it was the first time he’d travelled that distance. He told me his stitches were sore from sitting in the car for so long."

I checked the distance from Royston to Cambridge, and found that as I'd thought, it would have taken half an hour at most.

and driving a BMW, probably an automatic, would have been quite comfortable

 

[hunkerdown]

His stitches would have been sore because he'd moved poor Helen and Boris...

 

[Alyce]

Welcome Stumpyaura!

Excellent post. I agree with everything you've said. This is all about how he reacts when he is not in control. He needs control. I need to look back and see what evidence they heard that day before he went ill. I don't think it's about the evidence they were due to hear the next day, but something he had already heard that made him lose his sense of power.

I had a scroll back through Tuesday's evidence but nothing in particular stands out.
It began with AM ( OSs girlfriend ) who gave a few statements which contradicted the happy, normal, no arguments atmosphere that had been described previously by ISs sons. However, she also said what a lovely man IS was so was clearly a supportive witness.
Next is refuse tip man
Next -various police officers who went to the house for the first interview on April 15.
Nothing too startling there - ISs lie about him calling John Bailey ( when it was the opposite )
the conflicting comments re the note, found in hallway, found on Helen's desk
IS saying he and Helen hadn't been to Broadstairs for 2 months, when they had been there 4 weeks prior
police officer noting that IS was watching police closely as they conducted the search.

Then we have the Investment PA, with the comment re ISs increasingly frantic phone calls and trying to get info
Then a friend of Diane Stewart
Then Sharon Judd ( the widow who had one date with IS )

maybe there was something there that was relevant to IS but not obvious for us.

.

 

[Duchy]

His stitches would have been sore because he'd moved poor Helen and Boris...

Oh yes!

 

[Alyce]

It may be the unpopular vote but, I'm willing to believe that (having been seen by a doctor too) that he may just be genuinely unwell.
Gastrointestinal issues are often exacerbated by stress so it may well be the case.

Indeed. I dont doubt he is unwell... but I wonder if he may decide to extend his sick leave even when he is fit enough to come to court. If he says he's still having problems ( and I am assuming gastro probs here, it may be something else ) it is difficult for anyone to prove otherwise.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Will the doctor who has "signed him off" be provided by the judiciary or his barrister or will he have a choice?

 

[Alyce]

Will the doctor who has "signed him off" be provided by the judiciary or his barrister or will he have a choice?

I think, in the first instance, this will have been the regular doctor connected to the prison.
But, if it carries on ( my bet is yes on that ) then I imagine a court related doctor will be called in, who would be acceptable to both Pros and Defence.

 

[Gecko100]

Whilst I think without doubt he is guilty, with respect to his abdominal surgery it is very likely he has been told not to lift anything for 3 months. That is how long it takes for the internal surgery to fully repair. The skin repairs very quickly, usually within 7-10 days. Like you I have had abdominal surgery, twice in fact. The first time I found it difficult to walk for a week and was most definitely very sore for at least two weeks after that and on the second occasion I could still feel that I had had surgery after some weeks, again the skin had completely healed in a very short time. With abdominal surgery for bowel cancer he could well have had a fairly large wound externally and internally. I am unsure whether keyhole surgery is done for suspected bowel cancer but if it is the recovery time will be faster. I would give him the benefit of the doubt here.

He also seems to suffer from dysphagia which can be caused by many illnesses but if he is weak as well he may have an autoimmune condition known to cause this problem but unless we see the medication he is on it would be difficult to even guess whether that is the case. I believe the son/s referred to previous long term illness. I don't feel they would have a reason to be dishonest about this.

I do, however, believe he would make the most of any illness because it is in his interest to do so.

My first thought on hearing he wouldn't be at court in front of Helen's mum was that he was being sadistic. The dr seems to allude to a physical problem, but he could just as easily be suffering a psychotic episode. It seems to have arisen on the back of the testimony by his sons...

 

[Ironside]

It may be the unpopular vote but, I'm willing to believe that (having been seen by a doctor too) that he may just be genuinely unwell. Gastrointestinal issues are often exacerbated by stress so it may well be the case.

I do believe he is genuinely not well enough to attend court but I think it is due to a massive mental breakdown.