GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Legally Bland]

The taping over of the manhole cover edges - DNA, fingerprints?

I wonder if it was done to prevent the possibility of cadaver odour escaping.

 

[Alyce]

I just find it hard to comprehend how anyone could throw the body of the woman he claimed to love, and her beloved pet, into somewhere like that. It doesn't bear thinking about.

Indeed. And, without getting too graphic, it wasn't even throwing as in throwing someone into a lake or river - it was manoeuvering through a manhole cover, angling and working around a small space in order to get the body inside.... sick.

 

[Duchy]

"A laser graphic reveals the depth of the well to be 12 to 15ft deep with the manhole cover opening being 56cm by 70cm."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cesspit-murdered-childrens-author-dumped-9615884

1.8ft x 2.3 ft! Quite difficult to put her down there I think!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Murder trial of author Helen Bailey: A round up of the evidence so far

Snipped with respect


The defendant allegedly murdered Ms Bailey, “probably by suffocation” between 10.51am and 2.30pm on Monday April 11, 2016.

Before she died, Ms Bailey told family members she was worried she was losing her memory, and internet searches were made by her as to why she kept falling asleep, the court was told.

Helen Bailey murder trial DAY TWO: Children's author fiancé accused of drugging her for months before killing

At 3.57pm the following day, Stewart reported Ms Bailey missing before “sitting back and watching as police conducted what he knew to be a futile missing person’s investigation”, the prosecution claim.]


BiB

I may have misread or misinterpreted your comment here but I think it was 4 days later (15th April at 3.57 pm) that Stewart reported Helen missing to the police.

Seemingly he spent 4 days getting his "ducks in a row" before doing anything precipitous. I think he only did it then because Helen's brother pressed him to.

 

[Alyce]

Murder trial of author Helen Bailey: A round up of the evidence so far

Snipped with respect


The defendant allegedly murdered Ms Bailey, “probably by suffocation” between 10.51am and 2.30pm on Monday April 11, 2016.

Before she died, Ms Bailey told family members she was worried she was losing her memory, and internet searches were made by her as to why she kept falling asleep, the court was told.

Helen Bailey murder trial DAY TWO: Children's author fiancé accused of drugging her for months before killing

At 3.57pm the following day, Stewart reported Ms Bailey missing before “sitting back and watching as police conducted what he knew to be a futile missing person’s investigation”, the prosecution claim.]


BiB

I may have misread or misinterpreted your comment here but I think it was 4 days later (15th April at 3.57 pm) that Stewart reported Helen missing to the police.

Seemingly he spent 4 days getting his "ducks in a row" before doing anything precipitous. I think he only did it then because Helen's brother pressed him to.

I think it is just poor journalistic reporting, they have tried to condense the info and missed out the crucial part , which stated that it was the Friday when IS made the missing report to the police.


I spotted another one which reads badly too

She was happy in Royston, it was just an adjustment. She confided in me that she might get married to Ian in January 2016”, she said.

The original report that I read stated that - in January 2016 - Helen confided to Tracey re the possibility of getting married to IS.
The way it has been put in this report, makes it sound as though the plan was to get married in January.

 

[michelle230]

Regarding the conversations Helen had with Tracy - yes it would seem like they were by email so it`s interesting that nothing was alluded to questioning that they genuinely had been sent by Helen. Issues like the apparant note from Helen never have been seem, the facts that neither Helen`s nor IS`s phone were never found/produced, internet history being wiped - although these things have obviously cropped up, they haven`t been particularly stressed, although clearly important. This could be because perhaps it is * so * clear and *so * obvious as evidence against the defendant, or perhaps this will be expanded upon later at the summing up? It could be a simple fact that those things scream out the message without having to emphasis it!
Tracy had known Helen for around 15 years (I think). When Helen`s husband died, Tracy went to stay with Helen first for around 5 days a week, then diminishing over time until very rarely once IS was on the scene. They would meet from time to time in London for a catch up. Helen had mentioned (I think around 2014) that her and IS would get married one day. But it was not until 2016 that it turned into a "definite" and concrete plans were beginning to be made.
Regarding the scare/upset that Helen had that morning when according to IS she said she would never drive again - how absurd that such Helen had had such an apparently severe scare - severe enough for her to vow never to drive again - yet IS was unable to offer any details of the incident - he never asked her or discussed it with her! Oh come on!!
Interesting also that Helen`s brother had only once visited the house when Helen had first bought it in 2013, and not again until she died. Again it leads me to think that this victim was carefully chosen and her lifestyle observed. It would seem that she was a prolific user of social media, but actually didn`t necessarily physically see many people/have many visitors, but was happy with IS and sons living there and of course her beloved dog. It seems as if that was all she needed. I`m sure that anyone who was thinking ahead and plotting would have been aware of this and felt it of great significance.
Tortoise, going back to IS`s demeanour, my impression is not that he wants to look like a poor wronged victim, but actually has collapsed and is in deep shock. But obviously my opinion only. And we have yet to hear him speak! I`m sure he will lean very heavily on the fact that Helen never spoke a bad word against him (says more about Helen than about him!), and about how in love they were.
Michelle
P.S. Offer of lift always there. Message me if you find you are able to attend some time x

 

[Cherwell]

I think it is just poor journalistic reporting, they have tried to condense the info and missed out the crucial part , which stated that it was the Friday when IS made the missing report to the police.

Yes, I think they meant the day after his conversation with Helen's brother.

 

[Alyce]

Interesting also that Helen`s brother had only once visited the house when Helen had first bought it in 2013, and not again until she died. Again it leads me to think that this victim was carefully chosen and her lifestyle observed. It would seem that she was a prolific user of social media, but actually didn`t necessarily physically see many people/have many visitors, but was happy with IS and sons living there and of course her beloved dog. It seems as if that was all she needed. I`m sure that anyone who was thinking ahead and plotting would have been aware of this and felt it of great significance.

RSBM

I was discussing same just this morning ( elsewhere ) and have come to the conclusion that either;

Helen's friends had met IS - once or twice - but were not overly keen on him, so chose to meet Helen in London rather than go to her house.

or

Helen did try to get her pals to come and visit, but IS subtly managed to persuade her otherwise... along the lines of, Oh I thought we could have the week end together, just the two of us, blah blah ..... to the point where Helen eventually gave up and decided it was easier to see them in London - and this also had the knock on effect of giving her a good excuse to go to London more often.
Either way, I dont think she and IS, as a couple, mixed much with her family and friends.

From his side, this was possibly very good, as he didnt run the risk of anyone seeing through him and possibly warning Helen about him ( that's assuming he was out for the money from the start of course ) and he didnt have to keep up such a front ( again if it was a front from the start )

But where I think he has hugely lost out is that because he didn't know her friends and family very well, he was totally unaware of how they would react when Helen went missing.
I am sure he thought they would all buy his story of Helen going off for some space and he would be able to sail along happily for several months without any fuss being made whatsoever.
By which time, if anyone did start to question where she was, I expect a letter from Helen would have been invented, saying she was not coming back.

 

[michelle230]

I noticed the quote that LozDa puts at the end of her posts -

“For the powerful, crimes are those that others commit.”
― Noam Chomsky

I think in trying to sum up IS`s attitude and subsequent fall (plummet!!), this quote sums him up.
He thought he was the "powerful".
Now he knows he is actually the "others"

Thanks LozDa - that quote sums up what I was trying to communicate from my observations!

 

[MillyM]

*If* he takes the witness stand, that we still don't know.

Michelle commented how he seemed at times 'disassociated' from what was going on around him. I would imagine that he has been/still is on some fairly heavy anxiety meds - which may be the connection to the DRR Review mention on the court listing on Monday? To see whether he was fit to be in court and give evidence. I wonder if his counsel, feeling he may not come over well on the stand, are maybe looking at either claiming at time he was of diminished responsibility due to the stress of his own health situation at the time and/or that he now due to meds on has only little recall of past events and therefore unfit to plead.

 

[Cherwell]

I think that ship has sailed.

 

[MillyM]

Some good points again, Michelle.

I wonder if either of the sons will be called to give evidence. Living with the couple they would have been privy to what went on behind closed doors, whether there was any ever discord or arguments. We all know people put on another face when in public, but in private, at home, things may be quite different.

 

[Cherwell]

Interesting also that Helen`s brother had only once visited the house when Helen had first bought it in 2013, and not again until she died.

Where does he live, does anyone know?

 

[Ironside]

I must say the laser drawing of the well has confused me. What is the "cloud" to the left of the well? I realise laser drawings are great for accuracy but I'd actually like a simpler drawing to make sense of the well as I still can't visualise it.

 

[Alyce]

*If* he takes the witness stand, that we still don't know.

Michelle commented how he seemed at times 'disassociated' from what was going on around him. I would imagine that he has been/still is on some fairly heavy anxiety meds - which may be the connection to the DRR Review mention on the court listing on Monday? To see whether he was fit to be in court and give evidence. I wonder if his counsel, feeling he may not come over well on the stand, are maybe looking at either claiming at time he was of diminished responsibility due to the stress of his own health situation at the time and/or that he now due to meds on has only little recall of past events and therefore unfit to plead.

Agree re the DRR review, could be because he was/is on meds - it definately looked as though it related to him on that court listing.

I thought ( but may be wrong ) that they have to claim diminished responsibility at the start of the trial ?
However, I suppose they could try and bring it in when it gets to the defence case by saying he has deteriorated during the past few weeks ?
He certainly was ok back in December, when he introduced Joe and Nick to the story.

 

[ZaZara]

The taping over of the manhole cover edges - DNA, fingerprints?

I wonder if it was done to prevent the possibility of cadaver odour escaping.

The taping was done by the Police.

Daily Mail:

Evidence: The hatch to the cesspit where Miss Bailey's body was recovered from is pictured after being sealed by police

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lived-fianc-accused-murder.html#ixzz4Vf6V4YXe

 

[michelle230]

*If* he takes the witness stand, that we still don't know.

Michelle commented how he seemed at times 'disassociated' from what was going on around him. I would imagine that he has been/still is on some fairly heavy anxiety meds - which may be the connection to the DRR Review mention on the court listing on Monday? To see whether he was fit to be in court and give evidence. I wonder if his counsel, feeling he may not come over well on the stand, are maybe looking at either claiming at time he was of diminished responsibility due to the stress of his own health situation at the time and/or that he now due to meds on has only little recall of past events and therefore unfit to plead.

Hi Millie,
I would think that there is a very good chance that he is on meds!
I don`t think there is a chance he could attempt to claim diminished responsibility. The plans were too carefully planned and executed as was the behaviour afterwards.
Michelle

 

[BatFace]

When this first began, I was leaning towards the theory, like others, that this was a crime of passion, hastily covered up with ever-increasing effort, or -at most- pre-planned over a fairly short timescale because Helen was perhaps looking to end the relationship. I thought he was angry at losing his cushy number.

Now that it seems likely this had been coldly planned over many weeks, and that Helen was still her usual loving self, happily planning their wedding and expecting a life together. How much more monstrous is this? That the person she thought loved her above all others could do such a despicable thing, out of sheer greed. She trusted him, and he betrayed that in a truly horrific manner.


Poor Helen, and poor little Boris.


A man may smile and smile and be a villain.

 

[Cherwell]

I must say the laser drawing of the well has confused me. What is the "cloud" to the left of the well? I realise laser drawings are great for accuracy but I'd actually like a simpler drawing to make sense of the well as I still can't visualise it.

I think that is the hole excavated by the police in order to gain access to the tank from the side.

 

[LozDa]

I noticed the quote that LozDa puts at the end of her posts -

“For the powerful, crimes are those that others commit.”
― Noam Chomsky

I think in trying to sum up IS`s attitude and subsequent fall (plummet!!), this quote sums him up.
He thought he was the "powerful".
Now he knows he is actually the "others"

Thanks LozDa - that quote sums up what I was trying to communicate from my observations!

It's funny because I put it as that when I was on the Gable Tostee / Warriena Wright thread, fully intending to change it. But it seems to apply to more and more of these POSs. So it stays...