GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Alyce]

I was wondering if it could have been control? She was having second thoughts, wanted to leave him as she found him too dominating, but he wouldn't let go...?

yes that too, but I do think money will play a central part. I will say more after someone is charged

 

[Tortoise]

I've been thinking about that garden. It's very large, and would be a lot of work to maintain, looking as nice as it does.

IS has been in ill health, which makes me think he was probably not looking after the garden in recent times, before Helen went missing. I'd say they had a gardener. Especially since IS went away on holiday and the photos of the garden on Monday show it looking immaculately tended, not overgrown.

Makes me wonder if the gardener was given any specific instructions, or raised concerns with the police. They did seem to hone in on the garden, as if they had had a tip off. Maybe.

The other thing I was thinking about was whether Helen has been there all this time. The police worked the garden before, possibly not that thoroughly but it would have been easier presumably to spot any recent digging or new patio at that stage.

 

[Tortoise]

Tonight a number of emergency services could be seen parked up on the sports club car park opposite Helen's home.
Norfolk Fire and Rescue teams were also present at the house and men in orange overalls could be seen entering Helen's gated home.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...est-fianc-suspicion-murder.html#ixzz4EVSJvE76

 

[faybradshaw]

I've been thinking about that garden. It's very large, and would be a lot of work to maintain, looking as nice as it does.

IS has been in ill health, which makes me think he was probably not looking after the garden in recent times, before Helen went missing. I'd say they had a gardener. Especially since IS went away on holiday and the photos of the garden on Monday show it looking immaculately tended, not overgrown.

Makes me wonder if the gardener was given any specific instructions, or raised concerns with the police. They did seem to hone in on the garden, as if they had had a tip off. Maybe.

The other thing I was thinking about was whether Helen has been there all this time. The police worked the garden before, possibly not that thoroughly but it would have been easier presumably to spot any recent digging or new patio at that stage.

I think the police did get a tip off. Also the reports say 'what is believed to be a body' which makes me wonder is it a body intact albeit after 3 months or remains, meaning he disposed of the body in some way initially and then buried the remains

 

[Alyce]

Those two phrases

What is believed to be a body


And

Fire and Rescue teams with men in orange overalls

reminds me of Karen Buckley. Indeed does sound as though they are trying to recover remains.

it just gets worse


ETA One of the arrest charges was

suspicion of disposing of a body in a manner likely to obstruct the coroner


I didnt fully take that in at the time, I thought it just meant having hidden a body which would prevent lawful burial, but the wording now makes more sense as the police are talking about remains.
Looks as though they had suspicions from at least Monday that they were looking for remains and just needed the time to go right through the garden.

 

[Tortoise]

yes are you thinking something hazardous as in chemicals?

 

[Satchie]

So sad to see this result, but hoping for justice for poor Helen. It's such a despicable betrayal of the trust and love that's supposed to be sacred to relationships.

With regards to not searching the garden before, I believe all the previous searches such as inside the house and septic, were done with the permission of IS. If he refused to give permission for them to dig up the grounds, then there was nothing they could do, until they had sufficient evidence to arrest him. So I think something came to light recently that was strong enough evidence to lay the charge.

And she must have been extremely well concealed for it to have taken several days of searching, for eg, underneath a patio.

 

[Tortoise]

ETA One of the arrest charges was

suspicion of disposing of a body in a manner likely to obstruct the coroner

rsbm

I did think the charge was unusual, but couldn't think what else he might have been charged with, if he had disposed of her body. preventing lawful burial maybe?

ETA sorry Alyce I've just seen you mentioned that yourself

 

[Satchie]

Those two phrases

What is believed to be a body


And

Fire and Rescue teams with men in orange overalls

reminds me of Karen Buckley. Indeed does sound as though they are trying to recover remains.

it just gets worse


ETA One of the arrest charges was

suspicion of disposing of a body in a manner likely to obstruct the coroner


I didnt fully take that in at the time, I thought it just meant having hidden a body which would prevent lawful burial, but the wording now makes more sense as the police are talking about remains.
Looks as though they had suspicions from at least Monday that they were looking for remains and just needed the time to go right through the garden.

Perhaps they found evidence that he had purchased a chemical or something.

I can't conceive how someone could live in that beautiful house and lie so often and to so many people, knowing what he'd done.

 

[Tortoise]

Well if it's true, I think there is something a lot more sinister to this person than just losing control in the heat of the moment. I can't imagine it, except maybe with stranger killings. It is a whole other level of detachment.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

Grim and terribly sad news, but not unexpected given the developments of recent days.

I am with Alyce. I think this was to do with money. I also think this is a crime of passion, but not in the traditional sense re romantic entanglements etc. I think this crime came about because Helen had made a decision that was going to impact on other people's lives financially, and at least one of those other people [likely the suspect] acted in a way that no one could have dreamed possible.

There are only two possibilities IMO. The 55 year old current suspect is fully responsible, or he is fully covering for the person who is.

 

[neteditor]

Satchie I am thinking the same way as you. If it was a simple matter of burying someone for example, the charge would be preventing the lawful burial of a body, as Tortoise said above. The coroner's job is to ascertain cause of death, so obstructing the coroner would suggest doing something to the body that would make his job difficult/impossible. And with the fire brigade in attendance the next natural assumption is hazardous substances. Did someone at the local B&Q tip off the police or was someone stupid enough to use a traceable card to buy chemicals?

 

[Tortoise]

Grim and terribly sad news, but not unexpected given the developments of recent days.

I am with Alyce. I think this was to do with money. I also think this is a crime of passion, but not in the traditional sense re romantic entanglements etc. I think this crime came about because Helen had made a decision that was going to impact on other people's lives financially, and at least one of those other people [likely the suspect] acted in a way that no one could have dreamed possible.

There are only two possibilities IMO. The 55 year old current suspect is fully responsible, or he is fully covering for the person who is.

I've no doubt it's the former. The appeal he wrote reveals a very controlling person, and one who thinks only of himself, even when he knows he should be making efforts to expose a different side.

 

[Tortoise]

Satchie I am thinking the same way as you. If it was a simple matter of burying someone for example, the charge would be preventing the lawful burial of a body, as Tortoise said above. The coroner's job is to ascertain cause of death, so obstructing the coroner would suggest doing something to the body that would make his job difficult/impossible. And with the fire brigade in attendance the next natural assumption is hazardous substances. Did someone at the local B&Q tip off the police or was someone stupid enough to use a traceable card to buy chemicals?

All of which makes me think it was done recently. It doesn't take 3 months to examine someone's bank statement, and if there was a tip off from a place like B&Q it would also have been acted on asap, IMO.

 

[Satchie]

I've no doubt it's the former. The appeal he wrote reveals a very controlling person, and one who thinks only of himself, even when he knows he should be making efforts to expose a different side.

I really hope he confesses. Otherwise poor Helen, in her grief, got mixed up with a monster.

 

[Alyce]

There's a greenhouse in the far corner of the garden.

 

[Tortoise]

They've updated with a few more details since I posted it earlier

Tonight a number of emergency services could be seen parked up on the sports club car park opposite Helen's home.
Norfolk Fire and Rescue teams were also present at the house and men in orange overalls could be seen entering Helen's gated home.
Firefighters could be seen carrying two circular saws into the property.
A number of firefighters could be seen entering the property as bouquets of flowers were pushed through the front gate of her home.
At around 8.30pm five firefighters wearing all their gear entered the property carrying two circular saws.
The noise of the saws could be heard coming from the back of Helen's garden, which has been blocked off by a metal shield.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...est-fianc-suspicion-murder.html#ixzz4EVyZ2Y8M

 

[Tortoise]

Mind you they look more like reels of cable than circular saws to me

 

[Tortoise]

 

[Alyce]

I think its cable and saws...

so what are they cutting ?


( just realised circular saws reminds me of the odious Nathan )