GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Alyce]

When he says fully clothed is he meaning day time clothes or night dress etc?

My guess would be day clothing. I think, if it was nightwear, this might have been stated.

 

[lore1]

important re time of murder etc

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]11:05[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]'Subtle signs of death'[/h]“Zoplicone was found in Helen’s body fluids around the time of her death, but there was evidence of more chronic ingestion of Zoplicone in the hair samples.
“There was no evidence of obvious injuries or assault, no evidence of compressive neck injury. Looking at the facts it’s necessary to look at more subtle ways of death, Dr Carey said. “Subtle signs of death include things such as a ‘sleeper hold’ headlock type strangulation, which may leave less marks. “Even the most mild person will not put up with being smothered nor will they put up with having their neck impressed. “It is relevant the deceased appears to have been intoxicated with Zoplicone at the time of her death.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12435557

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[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]11:06[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]No evidence of a struggle[/h]There was no evidence of struggle or of injury to this particular body. No obvious bruises from gripping, or so on, Dr Carey said. If Zoplicone is taken in conjunction with alcohol it increases its effect. This would be similar to a ‘date rape drug’, Dr Carey said. It was however, not possible to tell whether there was alcohol in Helen’s system due to the decomposition of her body.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12435557

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[jessie]

I'm surprised at the lack of decomposition. In my ignorance I expected being in a cess tank would increase not decrease that.
I wonder if IS also thought that decomposition would be hastened under those circumstances, expecting her body to almost disappear.

 

[lore1]

can he tell if Helen was put into the tank when she was alive (but drugged) or dead when she went in?

 

[lore1]

liquid as i understand it only washes away dna and does nothing to quicken decomposition

 

[Tortoise]

can he tell if Helen was put into the tank when she was alive (but drugged) or dead when she went in?

I think so, because she would have continued to breathe and drowned. Her lungs would have shown signs.

 

[Alyce]

important re time of murder etc

I think from the last on line activity, just before 11am, it seems likely that Helen was up and about in the house.

I am wondering if she was killed in the bedroom or if she showed signs of falling asleep on the sofa and IS fetched a duvet and a pillow for her !

I am also thinking that he may have suffocated her with the duvet - it would be more controlling I would think than using a pillow, easier to trap her arms, should there be any resistance ( which it seems there was not ).
If he had used a pillow, then I would presume he would need to dispose of two pillow cases. The one that her head was lying on and the one he used to suffocate her.

 

[Tortoise]

Court hears traces of the sleeping drug zopiclone found in Helen Bailey's chest cavity fluid, liver sample + thigh muscle tissue @itvanglia

 

[lore1]

unless her lungs had already decomposed

 

[Tortoise]

Dr Cary: Helen Bailey unlikely to have died from natural disease. Sleeping drug prescribed to Stewart found in body & hair

Dr Cary: Presence of sleeping drug in body could provide means by which compression achieved without obvious signs of struggle @BBCLookEast

 

[jessie]

He could have put a plastic bag over her head if she was almost unconscious from Zopiclone. ?

 

[Alyce]

I'm surprised at the lack of decomposition. In my ignorance I expected being in a cess tank would increase not decrease that.
I wonder if IS also thought that decomposition would be hastened under those circumstances, expecting her body to almost disappear.

Me too Jessie.
Until, a few days back, when I read about bodies in cess pits ( I seriously do hope, as Ive said before, that no one needs to check my google searches ) and the general consensus was that it was not a clever way to dispose of a body, simply because, more often than not, the decomposition is slowed down.
Now, had IS added a huge dose of Lye to the pit, then it would have done a rapid disposal job for him. So I am very grateful that IS did not research this bit of info.

 

[lore1]

that on-line activity could have been him though no?

 

[Tortoise]

unless her lungs had already decomposed

He would have said if he was unable to tell, IMO

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]FORMAL CAUSE OF DEATH UNDETERMINED[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Dr Carey tells jurors: “It’s almost common sense the concealment of Helen’s body together with the dog in the cess pit speaks of third party involvement. You don’t need to be an expert to know that. The inference I draw from that - there was a third party involved in circumstances leading up to death, with the finding of Zoplicone.” “It is my understanding that Zoplicone is a prescription-only drug and was prescribed to the defendant. “It may be that the deceased ingested Zoplicone unbeknown to her. The findings are consistent with her being under the influence of zoplicone at the time Helen met her death. “The formal cause of death I gave in this circumstance was undetermined.”[/h]
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12435557
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[Tortoise]

Dr Cary carried out post mortem. Helen Bailey formal cause of death "undetermined" Says poss she ingested drug without knowing @BBCLookEast

 

[lore1]

[FONT=&amp]Zoplicone is a prescription-only drug.... yes but it can also be bought on-line
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[Alyce]

that on-line activity could have been him though no?

The wedding venue searches could have been him, but there was also on line intereaction with her close friend just before 11am. I dont think he is smart enough to be able to fake that.