GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #11

[michelle230]

Michelle. Thankyou for your summation.

Did you attend sentence delivery or give it a miss? I was wondering who else attended.

Also, last time you were here you mentioned L.Aid re IS and payment for legal fees. is there anything you can clarify on that ?

Cotton,
If IS had been appearing in person, I found have found a way to go to St Albans on Thursday. As he wasn`t, I didn`t go. For me, I need to be there to * see * the whole story unfolding, and to be an actual eyewitness to the whole process. To watch the people involved, the nuances, the "off side" bits that add so much depth.
Re the legal aid - I was lucky enough in that Mr T walked by and I asked him if he minded if I asked him a question.
He was very kind and made time to explain to me in as much as he could.
There is no "legal direction". There is a consideration shown to other members of the family/dependants etc and the question of "Should they suffer?" (financially).
He summed it up by saying that the paying of legal expenses - even just the defence expenses (as opposed to defence and prosecution), and even if the person found guilty has funds - it is strictly a matter between the legal aid board and the criminal. Of course, monies gained by illegal means e.g. drugs money, is recouped where possible, but with regard to paying back legal aid in a criminal prosecution - that is a different matter.
I would guess that there are no public documents out there with a breakdown of different cases, and we never get to know. As tax payers, you would think we are entitled to that information! I got the impression that very little attempt is made to recoup the costs.

 

[MillyM]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned, but if you're up early tomorrow tune in between 6-9am BBC Three Counties Radio:

Justin Dealey (@JustinDealey) tweeted at 4:15 PM on Fri, Feb 24, 2017:
Tomorrow's breakfast show is like this. Gilbert O'Sullivan, live music, transgender hate crime and a former friend of Ian Stewart speaks out

On Justin's FB page, he says this 'friend' has a lot to say! Wonder if it's the real Joe or Nick!

 

[neteditor]

Thanks Net - going to post later on - watching Corrie catch up - Steve/Michelle/Leanne drama takes my mind off reality lol

Michelle xx
P.S. Had a lovely chat with your friend!

He mentioned it

 

[Joely 123]

Was there an incident with a cyclist (no wine yet, "honest"-oh no, what a giveaway) ?


Just seen the JSP piece in the Indie. Sorry if already mentioned, but as she confesses to having been duped herself, that might explain the "dumb" comment on TV, which she changed to "naïve". In the classic way, she was also talking about herself when she was talking of Helen.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-character-fool-lonely-romantic-a7598256.html

JSP relates EVERYTHING back to herself. I can't listen to her view of life, men, happiness or sex.

 

[neteditor]

Did you follow the Sadie Hartley NetE?
( I remember you from the Ben Butler Ellie Gray) Hartley was a shocker, that's the last one I followed here- back in summer.

Never in a million years did I expect to be following a crime forum! Once you join.......

BB/EG was my first visit here and I stayed away until HB. Hard to stay away once you meet so many lovely people.

 

[MillyM]

There will also be a listen again available here after:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecountiesradio/programmes/a-z/by/j/current

 

[cottonweaver]

Cotton,
If IS had been appearing in person, I found have found a way to go to St Albans on Thursday. As he wasn`t, I didn`t go. For me, I need to be there to * see * the whole story unfolding, and to be an actual eyewitness to the whole process. To watch the people involved, the nuances, the "off side" bits that add so much depth.
Re the legal aid - I was lucky enough in that Mr T walked by and I asked him if he minded if I asked him a question.
He was very kind and made time to explain to me in as much as he could.
There is no "legal direction". There is a consideration shown to other members of the family/dependants etc and the question of "Should they suffer?" (financially).
He summed it up by saying that the paying of legal expenses - even just the defence expenses (as opposed to defence and prosecution), and even if the person found guilty has funds - it is strictly a matter between the legal aid board and the criminal. Of course, monies gained by illegal means e.g. drugs money, is recouped where possible, but with regard to paying back legal aid in a criminal prosecution - that is a different matter.
I would guess that there are no public documents out there with a breakdown of different cases, and we never get to know. As tax payers, you would think we are entitled to that information! I got the impression that very little attempt is made to recoup the costs.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for this Michelle. I am afraid it's what I assumed but didn't want to post to that effect until I'd asked you. ( So basically he did get legal Aid and won't pay it back. So we have to rely on that financial enquiry by the CPS to divest him of some of his ill gotten gains. )

Glad you didn't go on sentencing day - a lot of effort in travelling when the perp himself can't be a8rsed to turn up. x

 

[icemaiden65]

He might like the taking the shoes off part

:great:

 

[icemaiden65]

I don't really believe that Helen went out in the Jeep on 11th April. It may have happened before (was it the Saturday and referred to by Alex (OS g/f).
Helen writes in her book of how she had become a less confident driver, and how JS would start her car (or drive it a little) to keep the battery charged. She visualised a sporty Fiat 500 giving her back her zoom. And how she had become a 'passenger' in a car whilst JS did the driving.
She describes how, after JS died, her fear of the motorway prevented her driving to visit his family and how she felt good when she got in the car and did it, rather than they were always being the ones to visit her.

The NOBODY used this information, as we know there wasn't a fragment of her words that he didn't read and manipulate .. plagiarise and use to his advantage.
In the way that he probably offered to take her to Broadstairs during her first return visit there. She was going to call him to cancel the trip (he was known as Mac then) and was glad she hadn't because he was such a comforter during this heartbreaking return journey without the man she was going to retire there with.
I don't expect some of Helen's newfound fears of driving ever left her completely - but he wouldn't have helped her to regain the confidence she needed.
We know that he did not help her general confidence at all - IN ANY WAY - rather that he undermined her. She had a delightful website, he wished to take that over. He described her as menopausal, anxious (she wrote of anxiety in her book and how she had been an anxious teenager (who isn't?) and how she wished she could have told her anxious teenager, it would be alright and how it HAD been already since then.
Until - she lost her husband and went into the bowels of the most hideous deception any person could be partnered to.
His abuse of her aesthetic homemaking, allowing it to stink like 'a gerbil cage'* (Helen's word/s) without correcting this for her - helping to guide J & S towards Helen's need for a place of culture, quiet like her dream of her flat on Marleybone High Street. Was it Marleybone?- the little street behind Selfridges - near the Wallace Gallery.
He ignored any of her dreams. He ignored her brilliant writing apart from his theft of her words and the attempted theft of the money she had earned, along with her most beloved Partner in life. Something he was never going to become despite her 'diluted happiness' with him. A happiness she clutched at through the storm of grief.
And she was not 'besotted' by him. I refuse to accept cheap journalistic comments - was that on Ch 5?
She was only accepting that she was given a second chance of happiness and it felt to be safe and comfortable after the terrible storm of pain.
But she gave him more credit than he ever gave Helen and that is the thorn in my heart now.

The one thing that really got to me most in the CH5 documentary was the insistence that 'Helen loved - or was besotted with - him'. So thanks for this Joely - your interpretation sits much easier with me. He was a form of happiness and safety for Helen (how ironic) after all the agony of losing JS.

 

[Joely 123]

Interesting that WS site is moving smoothly in comparison to the last few days where almost 1,500 guests were tuned in.
I am so glad to have registered and become part of the conversation. My true value towards WS value is little but it's given me a chance to write thoughts and come to know you all.
Having always had interest in deconstructing language, humanities and illuminating writing I couldn't have come to a better place. It would have been so hollow in the heart to see news clips or daily newspapers or especially words spoken on 'Loose Women', which I can't bear.
Apart from the Dachshund Groups, I haven't ever known a group of people who cared so much for Justice for Helen .. and although we were all naturally downbeat at the end of the Trial. And yet satisfied with Judge Bright (I would have loved him to say more - but then I equally accept WHY spend time on him other than to give further comfort to the family and friends involved.)
I want to thank you the comfort you all have given me in being able to share your incredible sleuthing. Your words - your gift of writing - your heart spoken thoughts. Your analyse and humour is such a cushion against the reality of a Cesspit for a beautiful lady and her little dearest beloved four legged one.
Helen brought to Hartwell, cash and immediacy of purchase. He trailed behind in conveyancing terms but quite naturally brought his Sons.
Boris was Helen's Son - and the Father of two Sons killed his partner's child.

That is how I see it forever.

I shall miss you all. I want to be there for Helen and .... Diane. I don't want to say goodbye to some of the most lovely people in cyber realm. May I say thank you for welcoming me - embracing me despite that I am not a true WS and just an emotional writer. You have been AMAZING. Hugs and love, J

 

[Cherwell]

The quickest way to find out that someone has been drugged is when they crash their car. If Helen survived the crash and was able to speak at a certain moment, she would have been confronted with the alleged abuse of drugs.
And that would be the end of IS.
Other than that, the costs of a car crash can rise to astronomical heights if another party is involved and damaged. The same applies if HB survived and needed specialized care without ever recovering.

IS stood to lose a lot of money in this scenario and he would not be in control of the outcome.

IMHO he repeated the basic MO that he had used on his wife, because that had been very successful, and he added some new details like the cesspit.

I completely agree with this. It is too hit-and-miss (no pun intended) anyway.

 

[SweetCinnamon]

I'd like to second that. Such kindness is rare on the internet. I think I've built up a following of animal lovers who like history on Twitter but one has to be very very careful. So thank you all.


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[Joely 123]

ha.

ramadan starts end of May. Perfect timing for him to shuffle off to Whitemoor. ( ie. he can fast)

No more dieting please! He is going to show more of the 'bones' of his nature.

 

[SweetCinnamon]

One word I can think of about him :GROSS


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[SweetCinnamon]

Prisoners are allowed to spend £15 a week on 'Canteen' i.e. Toilet items, sweets etc. Care home residents are allowed £20.


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[BatFace]

Interesting that WS site is moving smoothly in comparison to the last few days where almost 1,500 guests were tuned in.
I am so glad to have registered and become part of the conversation. My true value towards WS value is little but it's given me a chance to write thoughts and come to know you all.
Having always had interest in deconstructing language, humanities and illuminating writing I couldn't have come to a better place. It would have been so hollow in the heart to see news clips or daily newspapers or especially words spoken on 'Loose Women', which I can't bear.
Apart from the Dachshund Groups, I haven't ever known a group of people who cared so much for Justice for Helen .. and although we were all naturally downbeat at the end of the Trial. And yet satisfied with Judge Bright (I would have loved him to say more - but then I equally accept WHY spend time on him other than to give further comfort to the family and friends involved.)
I want to thank you the comfort you all have given me in being able to share your incredible sleuthing. Your words - your gift of writing - your heart spoken thoughts. Your analyse and humour is such a cushion against the reality of a Cesspit for a beautiful lady and her little dearest beloved four legged one.
Helen brought to Hartwell, cash and immediacy of purchase. He trailed behind in conveyancing terms but quite naturally brought his Sons.
Boris was Helen's Son - and the Father of two Sons killed his partner's child.

That is how I see it forever.

I shall miss you all. I want to be there for Helen and .... Diane. I don't want to say goodbye to some of the most lovely people in cyber realm. May I say thank you for welcoming me - embracing me despite that I am not a true WS and just an emotional writer. You have been AMAZING. Hugs and love, J

So much love to you, Joely


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[Alyce]

Interesting that WS site is moving smoothly in comparison to the last few days where almost 1,500 guests were tuned in.
I am so glad to have registered and become part of the conversation. My true value towards WS value is little but it's given me a chance to write thoughts and come to know you all.
Having always had interest in deconstructing language, humanities and illuminating writing I couldn't have come to a better place. It would have been so hollow in the heart to see news clips or daily newspapers or especially words spoken on 'Loose Women', which I can't bear.
Apart from the Dachshund Groups, I haven't ever known a group of people who cared so much for Justice for Helen .. and although we were all naturally downbeat at the end of the Trial. And yet satisfied with Judge Bright (I would have loved him to say more - but then I equally accept WHY spend time on him other than to give further comfort to the family and friends involved.)
I want to thank you the comfort you all have given me in being able to share your incredible sleuthing. Your words - your gift of writing - your heart spoken thoughts. Your analyse and humour is such a cushion against the reality of a Cesspit for a beautiful lady and her little dearest beloved four legged one.
Helen brought to Hartwell, cash and immediacy of purchase. He trailed behind in conveyancing terms but quite naturally brought his Sons.
Boris was Helen's Son - and the Father of two Sons killed his partner's child.

That is how I see it forever.

I shall miss you all. I want to be there for Helen and .... Diane. I don't want to say goodbye to some of the most lovely people in cyber realm. May I say thank you for welcoming me - embracing me despite that I am not a true WS and just an emotional writer. You have been AMAZING. Hugs and love, J

Joely, thank you, yet again, for another lovely post. Your words are so heartfelt and your love for Helen and Boris shines through.

Now, as to your comment that you are not a true WS person.
I have to tell you, that you are only new on these boards when you make your first post. After that time, you are as much a WSleuther as the rest of us. So whether you join in another thread or not, you are and always will be one of us. xx

 

[Moll]

Oh...the Mail website has a long extract from Helen's book: they serialised it before, didn't they? I had not read it, apart from the extracts here, and some bits from the website. It makes sad reading now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4258132/Memoirs-murder-victim-HELEN-BAILEY-s-book.html
They say money has been donated to the Dogs' Trust at the family's request.

 

[BatFace]

Oh...the Mail website has a long extract from Helen's book: they serialised it before, didn't they? I had not read it, apart from the extracts here, and some bits from the website. It makes sad reading now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4258132/Memoirs-murder-victim-HELEN-BAILEY-s-book.html
They say money has been donated to the Dogs' Trust at the family's request.

Good to know about the Dogs' Trust, very fitting, thank you.


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[BlueMosaic]

Late night (post a glass of shiraz for Helen and Boris). This may already have been cited, but, whilst not totally coherent IMO, the Guardian's Deborah Orr is challenging the "middle aged woman myth".

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/24/helen-bailey-middle-aged-woman-myth

Good night and bless you all