GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Alyce]

http://m.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/5-poplar-farm-close/bassingbourn/royston/sg8-5na/32777923

This was IS's house.


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That's it ..... there have been 3 property sales and I think the one I originally posted up ( last year ) was not THE one

However, the sale price I found was his sale price

 

[Cherwell]

No, I have stated in several of my posts that Ian is clearly, unarguably, guilty so I think I made it clear that I don't think he's innocent.

I also haven't said that I believe it wasn't a financially motivated crime so not sure what you're getting at?

I've been on Websleuth for several years and followed many cases. It's always fun to have newcomers like yourself join and add a different perspective but, if you dislike my posts or my opinions then I respectfully ask that you don't respond to them.

You do give the impression of being quite sympathetic towards him.

 

[Alyce]

You can always rely on the Daily Mail to make it sound more dramatic !

He could be seen wearing only his dressing gown as he was cautioned by officers moments after being pulled from his bed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-police-wouldn-t-anything.html#ixzz4WnuLe8rI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[mrazda71]

You do give the impression of being quite sympathetic towards him.

I see him as a human being and not a 2 dimensional character.

No sympathy, just an interest in more than assuming that I know the details of his and Helens life together.

 

[maud]

Further to the comments about the respective values of the Sinfield and Stewart homes, there is one scenario that is worth considering. It plays into the idea that both Helen and Ian were upscaling, not in terms of monetary value but in terms of sheer scale and style.

Both houses were sold at a slightly lower price than they were originally advertised (Helen's Lime House eventually changing hands for a little over £1,600,000), and this may have been because each was slightly "dated" in its way. Helen's was clearly the superior property, being in a highly desirable area of London, but it was modern without being "Grand Designs" contemporary, in an area where period properties are at a premium. Knowing the Royston area's housing stock, I would say the Stewart family home would be considered a rather nice house to raise a family in (and it's a in a lovely spot with a view towards a church tower), but barn conversions date very quickly, and the kitchen and brick chimney breast etc look tired. On a side note, I find it touching that the cushions are positioned in a similar way in each house, as though the same person (presumably Helen) had tarted things up for the estate agent's photographs.

If the couple did buy Hartwell Lodge together, as both of them - in fairness - seem to suggest, it is likely that they split the cost more or less down the middle - it seems to have cost them £1,100,000. IS may well have had no mortgage on the barn conversion, if he did have life insurance on his wife, and thus been able to put up to half a million in the "pot". If Helen paid roughly the other half, she would have had perhaps a million pounds change from the Highgate house, whereas IS would have had no capital remaining. So even if they jointly owned the house, she benefited from the sale of her original home in a way that he did not.

I'm mentioning this because of her concern that IS would be "financially vulnerable" if she died, and the financial provisions she made for him. It does seem that joint ownership of the house would make things feel equal at the point of moving in, but acutely divisive in the long term - basically, Helen could afford to live there and IS could not, if she was not there to support him.

Royston is quite an interesting town, property wise - it has some lovely housing stock, and is very well connected to London, but is SO much cheaper than nearby Cambridge, and even Saffron Walden, a similar market town a few miles away. In material terms, Helen was making quite a shrewd move by relocating there. Like a lot of newcomers from London, she suddenly had a stunning house and the security of a large sum of money in the bank that wasn't there before. ( I imagine that she might also have had some life insurance, not connected to a mortgage, on JS, simply because he died accidentally whilst they were on holiday) .

It is heartbreaking that this carefully planned new life didn't work out for her, and that she had no inkling of the horrors to unfold.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Additionally, is it not most unusual for someone suddenly, out-of-the-blue, to die of an "unexpected epileptic fit" . . . as did IS's wife . . . .. ?

SiSi do you happen to have a reference for this opinion? If so could you post it please as I am quite interested.

In my experience SUDEP is quite rare unless one is a known epileptic who has fits during the night. For someone to have an unexpected epileptic fit during the day if there is no known history of epilepsy is quite rare.

EDIT The reason I ask is that I wonder whether in fact Helen had a seizure from stopping/reducing the drug Zopiclone (found in her body and thought to be due to IS doping her). Seizures are a known side effect of reducing/stoping Zopiclone if one has been taking it for more than 4 weeks. It is advised that reduction/stopping the drug is done with medical help. I am unsure whether evidence of a seizure would still be apparent if she had been slowly rotting in the cess pit, ie I wonder whether it is medically possible to determine this after 3 months in the conditions in which she was found.

 

[badhorsie]

We were in Muswell Hill for many years, another villagey place. I spent many happy hours in Highgate woods. Like Helen, I miss London enormously

 

[Coldpizza]

Admin Note:

Leave the snark and bickering at the door please.

Discuss the trial and NOT each other.

Thank you and carry on.

 

[Florrie]

I see him as a human being and not a 2 dimensional character.

No sympathy, just an interest in more than assuming that I know the details of his and Helens life together.

I think it's important to see IS as a human being however much his alleged actions (and I believe he is guilty) anger or distress us.
Human beings and the human mind are complex.
I'd like to know much much more about what makes him tick and why he took the actions he did. That said I doubt we will ever get close to it unless at some point he confesses and faces up to his actions at which point a lot of unpicking could be done.

Working as a medical professional I have been responsible for the care of many people in my time who society would shun. I have to be able to separate the person from the crime and look at them unemotionally. Sometimes these people face their crimes and will explore what lead up to them or at least the desire to commit the crime and sometimes they won't. Looking at the person as a human being sometimes garners answers which can contribute to a greater understanding of behaviours.






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[LozDa]

There's a massive difference between selling a house for 500k and being the beneficiary of a £4m estate.

Just because he had more than two pennies to rub together, it doesn't mean his motive wasn't financial gain.

In. My. Opinion.

 

[LozDa]

I think it's important to see IS as a human being however much his alleged actions (and I believe he is guilty) anger or distress us.
Human beings and the human mind are complex.
I'd like to know much much more about what makes him tick and why he took the actions he did. That said I doubt we will ever get close to it unless at some point he confesses and faces up to his actions at which point a lot of unpicking could be done.

Working as a medical professional I have been responsible for the care of many people in my time who society would shun. I have to be able to separate the person from the crime and look at them unemotionally. Sometimes these people face their crimes and will explore what lead up to them or at least the desire to commit the crime and sometimes they won't. Looking at the person as a human being sometimes garners answers which can contribute to a greater understanding of behaviours.






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Very politely stated, Florrie. And I couldn't agree more.

I think it's also important that we should be able to discuss theories of the man and how he ticked and why, without being accused of pretending we know him, or Helen, in any depth.

 

[maud]

"Just because he had more than two pennies to rub together, it doesn't mean his motive wasn't financial gain."

I completely agree, LozDa.

I felt it was worth looking at their financial relationship from another angle, however, as to my mind it helps to explain why Helen may not have perceived him as a gold-digger at the outset. If he had been living in rented accommodation, for example, it would have been much harder for him to disguise his intentions.

 

[ZaZara]

Roughly how much?

If you have an idea off-hand, otherwise don't worry I'll take your word for it.

I'm OK at maths, but don't want 'how much lye does it take to decompose a human body' in my search history.

This is more about the size of the tank than about a body.

Here is an example of dissolving lye in water:

https://youtu.be/u9rf3qZpO7g

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye

Tissue digestion

Sodium or potassium hydroxide can be used to digest tissues of animal carcasses or deceased humans. Often referred to as alkaline hydrolysis, the process involves placing the carcass or body into a sealed chamber, adding a mixture of lye and water and the application of heat to accelerate the process. After several hours the chamber will contain a liquid with coffee-like appearance,[6][7][8] and the only solid that remains are very fragile bone hulls of mostly calcium phosphate, which can be mechanically crushed to a fine powder with very little force.[9][10] Sodium hydroxide is frequently used in the process of decomposing roadkill dumped in landfills by animal disposal contractors.[7] Due to its low cost and availability, it has been used to dispose of corpses by criminals. Italian serial killer Leonarda Cianciulli used this chemical to turn dead bodies into soap.[11] In Mexico, a man who worked for drug cartels admitted to having disposed of more than 300 bodies with it.[12]

Soapmakers indicate that a lye : water ratio between 25% and 40% is optimal ~ for dissolving fat if you want to make soap
http://www.japudo.com.br/en/2013/05/14/the-importance-of-lye-concentration/

A little math in metric for a cauldron that measures 2000 gallons like the cesspit:

2000 gallons = 9092.18 litres
1 litre water = 1 kg
lye : water ratio 25% = (.25 x 9092.18) = 2273.045 kg

= 5011lb

 

[Joely 123]

You do give the impression of being quite sympathetic towards him.

I felt there was a 'sympathy' too - but perhaps that comes across because of trying to 'balance' a discussion. And I need to confess, I am emotionally involved in this Trial and cannot help but 'attack' the Defendant because I am incensed by his treatment of Helen and Boris. I believe the Police, despite, having to balance their reactions professionally shall feel the same way too. My sympathy rests with Helen's beloved family who have to suffer her loss in the despicable way she was murdered by the one she loved, dropped in a sewer and regarded as invaluable. The words that stick in my mind today (besides many from a grim day in Court) 'There are no valuables in the garage​'.

 

[SiSi]

SiSi do you happen to have a reference for this opinion? If so could you post it please as I am quite interested.

In my experience SUDEP is quite rare unless one is a known epileptic who has fits during the night. For someone to have an unexpected epileptic fit during the day if there is no known history of epilepsy is quite rare.

EDIT The reason I ask is that I wonder whether in fact Helen had a seizure from stopping/reducing the drug Zopiclone (found in her body and thought to be due to IS doping her). Seizures are a known side effect of reducing/stoping Zopiclone if one has been taking it for more than 4 weeks. It is advised that reduction/stopping the drug is done with medical help. I am unsure whether evidence of a seizure would still be apparent if she had been slowly rotting in the cess pit, ie I wonder whether it is medically possible to determine this after 3 months in the conditions in which she was found.

NOT an "opinion" but FACT: fb memorial page to Diane Stewart (IS's wife) set up by

her sister states:

"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit". The collection made in Dianes memory has been closed, the final total was £1610. This is to be split between MAGPAS (air ambulance who attended Diane) and MND the disease from which our Dad and a close friend of Diane's sadly died.
How cruel is life?
We miss you so much, love always W xxxxxxxxxxxx . . . "

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/125906664118992/

 

[ColourPurple]

Totally agree - she got involved with a man far too soon after the death of her husband IMO. She was still grieving and reeling from the shock of her loss. Had IS been a decent fella who loved her it could have come good. But her judgement must have been impaired at that particular time and no doubt she was lonely and vulnerable to a predator saying all the right things to her. On her blog she warns widows to stay safe on internet dates and specifically warns them not to disclose financial information, to deter gold diggers. I wonder if it ever occurred to her what IS' true motives were - ie that he was only after her money?

I do wonder if Helen would have reacted to IS differently had she not been seeing the grief counsellor at the time. When Helen raised the issue of IS and starting a reltionship, the counsellor seemed to be the one encouraging her to go for it by saying something like "What if you dont go for it and wait 6 months and 6 months down the line IS has met somebody else and is happy with them). Maybe the words of her counsellor encouraged her to go against her natural instincts on this occasion.

 

[Alyce]

Excellent post Maud.....
either way IS was dependent on Helen financially. Keeps his cash from the house sale, so is depending on Helen to buy the large house. Puts his cash into the large house, has no ready cash in the bank, dependent on Helen for his daily running costs.
( unless of course he has some other income stream that we have not as yet heard about ).

It should not matter one iota when 2 people get together, as to who has what or who has not. But, I think it mattered hugely to him.

 

[SiSi]

SiSi do you happen to have a reference for this opinion? If so could you post it please as I am quite interested.

In my experience SUDEP is quite rare unless one is a known epileptic who has fits during the night. For someone to have an unexpected epileptic fit during the day if there is no known history of epilepsy is quite rare.

EDIT The reason I ask is that I wonder whether in fact Helen had a seizure from stopping/reducing the drug Zopiclone (found in her body and thought to be due to IS doping her). Seizures are a known side effect of reducing/stoping Zopiclone if one has been taking it for more than 4 weeks. It is advised that reduction/stopping the drug is done with medical help. I am unsure whether evidence of a seizure would still be apparent if she had been slowly rotting in the cess pit, ie I wonder whether it is medically possible to determine this after 3 months in the conditions in which she was found.

NOT an "opinion" but FACT: fb memorial page to Diane Stewart (IS's wife) set up by

her sister states:

"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit". The collection made in Dianes memory has been closed, the final total was £1610. This is to be split between MAGPAS (air ambulance who attended Diane) and MND the disease from which our Dad and a close friend of Diane's sadly died.
How cruel is life?
We miss you so much, love always W xxxxxxxxxxxx . . . "

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/125906664118992/


I believe IS's late wife worked full time as a school secretary and do not think she had any previous symptoms of epilepsy

TOTALLY TRAGIC

 

[Interested Bystander]

NOT an "opinion" but FACT: fb memorial page to Diane Stewart (IS's wife) set up by

her sister states:

"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit". The collection made in Dianes memory has been closed, the final total was £1610. This is to be split between MAGPAS (air ambulance who attended Diane) and MND the disease from which our Dad and a close friend of Diane's sadly died.
How cruel is life?
We miss you so much, love always W xxxxxxxxxxxx . . . "

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/125906664118992/

Yes, I can see that with Diane's death that was the coroner's verdict, but I thought you posted it was a well known cause of death. I thought you may have come across some evidence that I have not seen. I have a friend who has four children with epilepsy (and their father too) and they have already lost one of their boys at a young age due to SUDEP.

 

[Lit Up]

I was in court today, and it's a fascinating case.

One of the things which surprised me most was observing the interaction *outside* the courtroom between one of the Stewart sons (only one was there) and Helen Bailey's brother, John, and his partner, Fraser Dyer.

During the frequent breaks, Jamie and John/Fraser were amiably talking to each other. There was no avoidance whatsoever. Not merely acknowledgements either, actually chit-chatting and hanging around together.

This makes sense in a way. Jamie is probably still living in the Baldock Road house which is in his father's name. It is in John Bailey's interests to be on amiable terms with the Stewart sons, given that all of Helen's belongings are in the house, and John Bailey would clearly have no right of entry or right to her possessions, given I assume that probate has not yet been granted on HB's estate pending the outcome of the trial.

One wonders whether the Stewart sons were witnesses for the defence or prosecution; perhaps they are not united on this matter. But from observing Jamie today, I anticipate that perhaps he's not on his father's side. I know that both sons didn't recall "Joe and Nick". Perhaps it might be a stretch to think that Jamie might retain a friendship with the Baileys (it would be easy to sympathise with him; having lost his mum to cancer and then his dad jailed for murder, all before the age of 25). But who knows.

John Beavis, the drain cleaner man who unearthed Helen's body was shaking in the dock as he recounted what he had seen. The police have a photo of Helen's arm sticking out of the cesspit; the corpse was wearing a "stripey top" which could well be the one she is wearing in her Facebook profile pic.

Roll on Friday.