GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[snoopydog]

I do wonder if the issue with the bereavement counsellor also stems from the fact that she was a "life coach"?

It's possible. The counsellor should never have said this to her. As a widowed person even I wouldn't have said this to a friend as advice in similar circumstances. If I recall correctly I advised widowed friends who got themselves into pickles with the opposite sex to hold off till their head was in a better place. I wouldn't be surprised if her counsellor deeply regrets saying that now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[snoopydog]

In other words, when they had arranged to meet in person for the first time, he turned up at her house well before the agreed time.

Not an excuse but.... If you look at how he writes I could see him picking up a message wrong. He really doesn't come across bright in anything I've read he's written....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DollyDiamond]

Yes, and Helen specifically wanted coaching rather than counselling. I know I'm being harsh blaming the coach though!

I've been watching this ahead of today's evidence to try and get my thoughts out of the pit and back to the person and dog who will hopefully eventually be remembered more for their lives than their deaths:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9GPdcxTs0oE

Thank you for the You Tube video, I found it very moving. The world has lost a very special woman and a beautiful little dog. Money is only money but loving souls are irreplaceable.

I agree, it is too awful that that nasty freak degraded their bodies and treated them like effluent. The shame and humiliation of that lays firmly with HIM and not her. We need to know about it because it reveals the darkness of his soul, and the depraved depths of ruthlessness he was capable of. But Helen and Boris remain unsullied by his vile insult. In my mind's eye they are together somewhere - that beautiful painting of them on the Planet Grief blog, sitting with their backs to us looking at the moon kind of encapsulates them for me.

There are many blue plaques up on historic buildings in Highgate, celebrating the likes of Charles Dickens and Sir John Betjeman. As Helen was so happy there for many years, I think it would be a fitting tribute if one day she were to get a blue plaque. That is something for her family to consider when this current nightmare is over, and justice has been served.

 

[Squamous]

This is another Helen video (although makes me begin to question if she had any other tops!!). I just love the look that comes on her face when she starts to totally digress about the YouTube videos she watched.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JkrrfYn2ohk

Dolly, you're right, this Helen was never in the pit. I hope she is somewhere beautiful.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I thought they had stand in jurors?

I bet that is a really naive thing to say :facepalm:

If only! It's very frustrating that one juror can hold up a big trial, with all the inconvenience not to say expense, that entails.

 

[Cherwell]

If only! It's very frustrating that one juror can hold up a big trial, with all the inconvenience not to say expense, that entails.

I do think that it would be a good thing to have a "spare" juror, but not to stand in for someone who is only incapacitated for a day.
Sometimes a juror has to drop out completely because of more serious illness, which is not a problem unless it happens to a second juror. Always a risk with a lengthy trial, so I would have thought it wise to have a back-up

 

[DollyDiamond]

I agree, he doesn't come across as bright or quick-witted to me at all. It saddens me that Helen, with her brilliant writer's brain and easy wit, ever thought this man was a match for her! Looking at the embryonic website he was creating for her, I am angered by two comments - where he calls her 'a dowdy menopausal woman' and elsewhere states 'Boris is a mutt'. HE is the mutt! Beware people who put you down with cutting, apparent 'witticisms'. If you challenge them they'll say "I was only joking" or "Where's your sense of humour? It can be another way in which they are subtly undermining you.

 

[DollyDiamond]

It's possible. The counsellor should never have said this to her. As a widowed person even I wouldn't have said this to a friend as advice in similar circumstances. If I recall correctly I advised widowed friends who got themselves into pickles with the opposite sex to hold off till their head was in a better place. I wouldn't be surprised if her counsellor deeply regrets saying that now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My understanding of counsellers is that they resist the temptation to give advice. I am shocked that this one apparently gave Helen the "Grab him before another woman does" vibe. As if IS was some sort of prize! Helen was the prize and if advice was to be offered it should have been not to rush into another relationship but to take her time and make sure she ends up with a great guy.

A new love was highly unlikely to have murdered her and I appreciate the counsellor could never have predicted that. But there was a very real danger of Helen jumping into the wrong relationship and ending up unhappily married. As it was, she ended up dead. I hope any counsellors/coaches/therapists following the trial will take this on board.

 

[snoopydog]

I agree, he doesn't come across as bright or quick-witted to me at all. It saddens me that Helen, with her brilliant writer's brain and easy wit, ever thought this man was a match for her! Looking at the embryonic website he was creating for her, I am angered by two comments - where he calls her 'a dowdy menopausal woman' and elsewhere states 'Boris is a mutt'. HE is the mutt! Beware people who put you down with cutting, apparent 'witticisms'. If you challenge them they'll say "I was only joking" or "Where's your sense of humour? It can be another way in which they are subtly undermining you.[/

When looking at his attempt at a new site for Helen and his desperate messages for assistance on the Wordpress theme help page it is clear he can't make a website to save himself. Helen obviously got some professionals to build her planet grief site and it's great. It appears he was trying to emulate that site but was having difficulties. He'd probably told Helen he could make the same kind of site no bother then realised he couldn't. What a shambles he is. I also noted he asked numerous questions about time stamps and days etc. This got me thinking he had some plan to show himself online at a time he wasn't online.... could just be overthinking it though....

I just can't get my head around this guy at all. He really comes across so badly in his online presence that I don't know how he thought he would get away with it.

A jail sentence is too good for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[snoopydog]

My understanding of counsellers is that they resist the temptation to give advice. I am shocked that this one apparently gave Helen the "Grab him before another woman does" vibe. As if IS was some sort of prize! Helen was the prize and if advice was to be offered it should have been not to rush into another relationship but to take her time and make sure she ends up with a great guy.

A new love was highly unlikely to have murdered her and I appreciate the counsellor could never have predicted that. But there was a very real danger of Helen jumping into the wrong relationship and ending up unhappily married. As it was, she ended up dead. I hope any counsellors/coaches/therapists following the trial will take this on board.

Yes. She even said in her last post something along the lines of there's no quick fix! .....Maybe she had started to realise that the knight in shining armour was actually a dumbass in tinfoil.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DollyDiamond]

Yes. She even said in her last post something along the lines of there's no quick fix! .....Maybe she had started to realise that the knight in shining armour was actually a dumbass in tinfoil.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"...a dumbass in tinfoil". Wonderful! I think Helen would have chuckled and heartily approved of your comment! April 11th seemed to me an odd choice of day for IS to do the awful deed. Ideally I think he'd have waited until the cash from her flat sale had come through. I do wonder if something happened out of the blue that day to hasten the murder - a row, or she discovered he'd been drugging her? Only two people know, she is gone and he will never come clean. There's just nothing in it for him to tell the truth about the terrible thing he did. And by the way - I think you are onto something with IS' questions about computer date stamps. That strikes me as VERY sinister and relevant to his mindset. We know he had been planning the murder for months so this makes perfect sense, he will definitely have been thinking about alibis.

 

[LozDa]

Hi all; I've been reading along but been so busy the past few days I've not had a moment to post.

You've all covered everything I wanted to say anyway!

Only extra thing for me is Helen saying that the bereavement counsellor advising her to not miss the chance with IS...

We do have to remember that she was a writer and sometimes certain situations can get a bit embellished for the sake of a good romantic line or story.

It may well have been the case that the counsellor said something along the lines of "would you regret it if you found out he was with someone else?" or, maybe even gave Helen a scenario to think on. For the sake of her post, it sounds a bit more romantic and dramatic the way she tells it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it happened exactly that way.

I have no doubt Helen was truthful in reporting events and situations, by the way - I just think we need to remember that she's a writer, so every conversation quote on her blog may not be exactly to the letter and may have been paraphrased in a slightly more eloquent and befitting-to-the-story manner

 

[Alyce]

"...a dumbass in tinfoil". Wonderful! I think Helen would have chuckled and heartily approved of your comment! April 11th seemed to me an odd choice of day for IS to do the awful deed. Ideally I think he'd have waited until the cash from her flat sale had come through. I do wonder if something happened out of the blue that day to hasten the murder - a row, or she discovered he'd been drugging her? Only two people know, she is gone and he will never come clean. There's just nothing in it for him to tell the truth about the terrible thing he did. And by the way - I think you are onto something with IS' questions about computer date stamps. That strikes me as VERY sinister and relevant to his mindset. We know he had been planning the murder for months so this makes perfect sense, he will definitely have been thinking about alibis.

Perhaps, with the date stamp idea ( if he was thinking along those lines ) being too difficult for him...because, let's face it, he doesn't seem the brightest technical mind out there ....... he decided to use a Surgery alibi - therefore chose the next appointment date, which happened to be Monday April 11.
The only thing that went wrong for him was the timing on that day. He was meant to have killed Helen earlier and kept that morning Surgery appointment, giving him a good alibi as she departed the house.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Hi all; I've been reading along but been so busy the past few days I've not had a moment to post.

You've all covered everything I wanted to say anyway!

Only extra thing for me is Helen saying that the bereavement counsellor advising her to not miss the chance with IS...

We do have to remember that she was a writer and sometimes certain situations can get a bit embellished for the sake of a good romantic line or story.

It may well have been the case that the counsellor said something along the lines of "would you regret it if you found out he was with someone else?" or, maybe even gave Helen a scenario to think on. For the sake of her post, it sounds a bit more romantic and dramatic the way she tells it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it happened exactly that way.

I have no doubt Helen was truthful in reporting events and situations, by the way - I just think we need to remember that she's a writer, so every conversation quote on her blog may not be exactly to the letter and may have been paraphrased in a slightly more eloquent and befitting-to-the-story manner

Great post LozDa, as usual you have come up with an unexpected and valuable point. As a writer myself, I know that stories are not necessarily embellished but they can be 'framed'/tweaked/simplified in such a way as to make them a better read. That's not to cast a single aspersion on Helen's honesty, just to bear in mind her context as a professional writer - and a very good one.

 

[Cherwell]

We do have to remember that she was a writer and sometimes certain situations can get a bit embellished for the sake of a good romantic line or story.

It may well have been the case that the counsellor said something along the lines of "would you regret it if you found out he was with someone else?" or, maybe even gave Helen a scenario to think on. For the sake of her post, it sounds a bit more romantic and dramatic the way she tells it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it happened exactly that way.

I have no doubt Helen was truthful in reporting events and situations, by the way - I just think we need to remember that she's a writer, so every conversation quote on her blog may not be exactly to the letter and may have been paraphrased in a slightly more eloquent and befitting-to-the-story manner

Most definitely, and I think that applies to almost everyone, not just writers. It's rare that anyone retells something with absolute literal accuracy, and even then we can miss nuances. Context is also important and not always available.

 

[LozDa]

Great post LozDa, as usual you have come up with an unexpected and valuable point. As a writer myself, I know that stories are not necessarily embellished but they can be 'framed'/tweaked/simplified in such a way as to make them a better read. That's not to cast a single aspersion on Helen's honesty, just to bear in mind her context as a professional writer - and a very good one.

Exactly... definitely not intending to cast aspersions on Helen's honesty - more so to point out that the bereavement counsellor might not have been so wildly brazen in her instructions to Helen as suggested

 

[wolfcub]

Hello all! I'm new on here, though have been following everything going on and all the posts since thread # 1.
I have never been part of an online forum before, and did hesitate to come on here, (mainly for fear of posting in wrong place which I probably have done - so patience please!) However, a feeling has been burning within me after scrutinizing everything and I just wanted to get it off my chest. This may already have been inferred, but I have not seen it specifically said, other than an Oscar Wilde allusion regarding the carelessness of losing two wives. I am wondering if, whatever Stewart's actual intention as to when and how he planned (or did not plan) to murder Helen, she did indeed suffer something major like an epileptic fit at which point (and this viewpoint also implicates him in his first wife's death) he realized that he was scuppered as there as no way that both wives could coincidentally die of the same thing...so she had to be got rid of there and then. As the wise and insightful posters on here have pointed out, a sociopath is likely to have a L.......ong track record of taking people in for their own profit / gain (I have known one personally, they 'collect' wives - though yes, there are degrees of sociopathy and they don't all murder of course, but it is clear that this one has done...)

 

[LozDa]

Hello all! I'm new on here, though have been following everything going on and all the posts since thread # 1.
I have never been part of an online forum before, and did hesitate to come on here, (mainly for fear of posting in wrong place which I probably have done - so patience please!) However, a feeling has been burning within me after scrutinizing everything and I just wanted to get it off my chest. This may already have been inferred, but I have not seen it specifically said, other than an Oscar Wilde allusion regarding the carelessness of losing two wives. I am wondering if, whatever Stewart's actual intention as to when and how he planned (or did not plan) to murder Helen, she did indeed suffer something major like an epileptic fit at which point (and this viewpoint also implicates him in his first wife's death) he realized that he was scuppered as there as no way that both wives could coincidentally die of the same thing...so she had to be got rid of there and then. As the wise and insightful posters on here have pointed out, a sociopath is likely to have a L.......ong track record of taking people in for their own profit / gain (I have known one personally, they 'collect' wives - though yes, there are degrees of sociopathy and they don't all murder of course, but it is clear that this one has done...)

:welcome4:

Good post, Wolfclub

I think the majority of us feel and suspect exactly the same things. There is quite a lot of discussion about it on the first thread (if you go back to the first post on this thread on page 1, you'll see a link to a past thread that was started when Helen went missing. You can read the whole history of the case from the very start there) but not much since because there's no real way to know at this stage - it's all just speculation and a vague sense of what happened because we know exactly what sort of man this is.

It's a pretty frustrating, but inevitable impasse.

P.s. you've posted in exactly the right place in exactly the right way!

 

[Cherwell]

Hello Wolfcub

I am wondering if, whatever Stewart's actual intention as to when and how he planned (or did not plan) to murder Helen, she did indeed suffer something major like an epileptic fit at which point (and this viewpoint also implicates him in his first wife's death) he realized that he was scuppered as there as no way that both wives could coincidentally die of the same thing...so she had to be got rid of there and then.

If Helen had suffered something like an epileptic fit and it was a natural death, I can't see how he would have been in any trouble. Coincidences like that do happen, unfortunately.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Hello all! I'm new on here, though have been following everything going on and all the posts since thread # 1.
I have never been part of an online forum before, and did hesitate to come on here, (mainly for fear of posting in wrong place which I probably have done - so patience please!) However, a feeling has been burning within me after scrutinizing everything and I just wanted to get it off my chest. This may already have been inferred, but I have not seen it specifically said, other than an Oscar Wilde allusion regarding the carelessness of losing two wives. I am wondering if, whatever Stewart's actual intention as to when and how he planned (or did not plan) to murder Helen, she did indeed suffer something major like an epileptic fit at which point (and this viewpoint also implicates him in his first wife's death) he realized that he was scuppered as there as no way that both wives could coincidentally die of the same thing...so she had to be got rid of there and then. As the wise and insightful posters on here have pointed out, a sociopath is likely to have a L.......ong track record of taking people in for their own profit / gain (I have known one personally, they 'collect' wives - though yes, there are degrees of sociopathy and they don't all murder of course, but it is clear that this one has done...)

Welcome Wolfcub! I'm a newbie to this forum too, and I can tell you this is the friendliest, most magnanimous and amazing group of people I've encountered on the internet. Websleuths is a rare gem - possibly unique!

Yes, the subject of IS' first wife and her premature demise is an intriguing one. I would be very surprised if, at the close of this trial, we don't hear an investigation has been launched into her death. Very sad for the sons - I am sure they must have thought the unthinkable, it is bound to haunt them.