GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[Interested Bystander]

Mr Jitty/Net Editor, in the UK does the Prosecution get disclosure from the Defence Case prior to the trial? We know in the OP case the Defence only handed over their file a couple of hours (if that) before the trial started.

 

[Alyce]

Husband continued with holiday booked with Helen

“I had no further dealings with Stewart until out of the blue he phoned me on Friday, June 10, 2016. “He announced that he was off on holiday to Spain. He stated he was going on the holiday as he had booked it with Helen and couldn’t get his money back. “He had decided that he was going on his own. He also said his mental health advisor told him he needed a break “He texted me to say ‘Don’t make it public, I’m going on holiday’. “I then received an email from him in June 16 saying ‘Not sure this trip was a good idea. Going to stick with it a bit longer though’.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[mrjitty]

I've sat through a lot of trials in my journalism days and sometimes it's not apparent until later in the evidence why a certain thing was done. It might be that there is evidence later which fails to corroborate what some witnesses have said and might serve to diminish the credibility of their evidence etc. This trial has a long time to run, so at this stage, anything could happen!

Yes!

Also there is frequently an entire backstory of trial tactics which we don't get to see

There is a lot of iceberg effect

 

[LozDa]

Adding to my comment re sons evidence.

I dont think appearing during the Prosecution case says anything other than it made sense for the Prosecution to call them, as it fitted very well into the time line that the Prosecution needs to present to the Jury.
IMO they were both very supportive of their father -their evidence was very carefully worded.

Yes, apologies... I think what I meant by the prosecution witnesses is not that they were speaking in promotion of the prosecution but that, so far, the prosecution's selection of witnesses hasn't exactly strengthened their case.

I just hope they've got some stronger witness testimonies lined up with medical and forensic statements perhaps.

 

[Alyce]

Arsenal season tickets renewed from Helen Bailey's bank account

The next statement is from Detective Constable Helen Richard. “On July 4, 2016 I requested information from Arsenal box office in relation to two season tickets being renewed from funds with Helen Bailey’s sole bank account. “I was told that there are two season tickets in the name of Helen Bailey. “I posed the written question of whether there were any account details in the name of Stewart, to which she heard that there were no details for this person.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[SiSi]

[h=3]Arsenal season tickets renewed from Helen Bailey's bank account[/h]The next statement is from Detective Constable Helen Richard. “On July 4, 2016 I requested information from Arsenal box office in relation to two season tickets being renewed from funds with Helen Bailey’s sole bank account. “I was told that there are two season tickets in the name of Helen Bailey. “I posed the written question of whether there were any account details in the name of Stewart, to which she heard that there were no details for this person.

So -- this is what alerted the police/gave them concrete evidence of theft from HB's SOLE account!!!

 

[neteditor]

Mr Jitty/Net Editor, in the UK does the Prosecution get disclosure from the Defence Case prior to the trial? We know in the OP case the Defence only handed over their file a couple of hours (if that) before the trial started.

Yes they do, there are no surprise witnesses. As I said earlier if a late witness crops up during the trial for example, there would be an adjournment for both sides to prepare.

ETA - if by OP you mean Oscar Pistorious, of course a completely different country with a non-comparable court procedure, especially given there is no jury in SA.

 

[Alyce]

Security questions would have been needed

“I asked how the season ticket was renewed - and was told an email was sent to all season ticket holders on May 12 to confirm they could renew their seats. “The email would have been sent to the email address on the member’s account. A renewal form was also sent to the address on the member’s account. “I asked how the season ticket was paid for, whether it was over the phone, person, or automated from any bank account.” DC Richard was told that both season tickets were renewed by phone on May 16 at 10.50am. A credit card was provided for payment. “The other person must be able to confirm a number of security questions for the card if someone was using someone else’s card. “I was told the renewal email was sent on May 12 and read on May 16.” “Helen’s online account was last accessed on May 15. “I was told there were no recordings were made of the telephone call made to Arsenal to carry out the renewal of the season tickets. “These tickets were purchased on Helen Bailey’s Santander account which was a joint account she shared with Stewart.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651


my comment - I thought IS was told ( asked ) by the police , back in April ,to stop accessing Helen's email account

 

[SiSi]

Bit confusing . . . it's now funds from the Joint a/c???

 

[mrjitty]

The Crown Prosecution Service (for England and Wales) prepares their prosecution case and serves their bundle of papers on the defence well in advance of the trial. The defence then gets a chance to prepare their cross examination of witnesses, and decide if there are other witnesses the CPS is not calling that might support the defence case.

If the defence wants to call witnesses they also have to let the CPS know in advance so they too can be prepared. If a late witness becomes apparent, say during a trial, there would be an adjournment while both sides ask the judge for permission to enter the witness into the record and are given time to prepare for it.

So yes basically the CPS gets to decide on witnesses first.

Yes exactly.

See for example the large list of neighbours in the pistorius trial.

Most were ultimately called by the prosecution

Some were called by the defence where their evidence better suited the defence case and the prosecution could then X those witnesses.

Some were called by neither.

In particular the first responding witnesses were called by the defence as they were hostile to the prosecution case.

All of that would have been agreed pre-trial as clearly the first responding witnesses had to be called by someone!

 

[Alyce]

Officer tells of garage search

There is one more statement to read before live evidence. The statement is of police constable Martin Hancock. PC Hancock, a licensed search officer for Hertfordshire police said: “On July 12 I searched a house in Baldock Road, Royston in relation to a murder enquiry. “I was told the main occupant from the address had been arrested. “Myself and another colleague were given the garage building to search, we were asked to seize anything relating to the death or disappearance of Helen Bailey. “We searched the garage with another pair of officers. We were tasked with the right hand side of the garage. “In our half of the garage there were no vehicles. “The only area we needed to raise for further investigation was a manhole cover that led down into a cess pit. “The cover was painted the same colour as the floor of the garage, it was grey. “We managed to lift the drain and put our heads down it to have a look for anything obvious, but all we could see and smell was sewage. “We raised the issue with the search team, stating we would need a company to come out and clear the tank. “I can’t remember if the drain cover was visible without moving anything.” That’s the end of the statement.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651


so they did lift the cover on their first check on the Tuesday July 12

 

[SiSi]

Officer tells of garage search

There is one more statement to read before live evidence. The statement is of police constable Martin Hancock. PC Hancock, a licensed search officer for Hertfordshire police said: “On July 12 I searched a house in Baldock Road, Royston in relation to a murder enquiry. “I was told the main occupant from the address had been arrested. “Myself and another colleague were given the garage building to search, we were asked to seize anything relating to the death or disappearance of Helen Bailey. “We searched the garage with another pair of officers. We were tasked with the right hand side of the garage. “In our half of the garage there were no vehicles. “The only area we needed to raise for further investigation was a manhole cover that led down into a cess pit. “The cover was painted the same colour as the floor of the garage, it was grey. “We managed to lift the drain and put our heads down it to have a look for anything obvious, but all we could see and smell was sewage. “We raised the issue with the search team, stating we would need a company to come out and clear the tank. “I can’t remember if the drain cover was visible without moving anything.” That’s the end of the statement.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651


so they did lift the cover on their first check on the Tuesday July 12

AND apparently WITHOUT any use of any "special" lifting equipment!

 

[Alyce]

Bit confusing . . . it's now funds from the Joint a/c???

It is a bit confusing because we only get a condensed outline.

My take is ths

IS didnt read the renewal email until May 16 - however there had also been a renewal form sent in the post, so possibly he already had this form and knew he needed money for the renewal.

So he was already thinking about how to do the renewal - hence the reason he accessed Helen's sole account on May 15, to see if he could make the payment that way.

When he was not able to do so, and when he then read the renewal email on May 16, he decided he had to use the joint account for the renewal.
Which he claimed was all done because Helen would have been annoyed if he had not kept up her subscription !! when the reality was he wanted it for himself and family to use.

 

[Alyce]

Officer tells of body recovery

Jurors are now going to hear about the excavation of Helen’s body from the cess pit. Detective Chief Inspector Jerome Kent will now give evidence in the witness box. He is a Hertfordshire police officer and a member of the Herts, Beds and Cambs Major Crime Team. DCI Kent said: “I was informed on the morning of July 15 that officers had found a body in the well at the home in Royston. “I’m embarrassed to say it took me some convincing to work out what I was looking at. “We had a discussion on how to excavate Helen from that well. “As I looked down into the cess pit I could see a dry hard crust of what looked like mud. “There was a small, very pale white object in that which I now know was part of Helen’s elbow. “It was dark, it wasn’t easy to see, whatever it was was held underneath that crust, almost like something trapped under ice.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[Alyce]

Rescue team had to dig body out of well

A number of photos are now being shown to the courtroom. The first picture shows the garage of the Royston house, with two forensic tents nearby. DCI Kent added: “There was a lot of press interest at this time because we were back at the house searching. “This gave me concern and we wanted to give Helen dignity in her excavation.” Another photo shown to the courtroom shows the forensic tent open, with the garage visible. “We had a discussion the day how we were going to extract Helen from this well. “We wanted to use as close techniques as possible to recovering a body from open water. “We needed to dig down the side of the well, excavating the modern brick driveway to expose the side of the well, and then go in sideways. “It wouldn’t have been possible to retrieve Helen from the top of the well, from ground level. “This whole process is done by hand. It was Norfolk Urban Search and Rescue Team who excavated the body, a very experienced team who often go out to disaster zones to recover bodies.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[mrjitty]

Mr Jitty/Net Editor, in the UK does the Prosecution get disclosure from the Defence Case prior to the trial? We know in the OP case the Defence only handed over their file a couple of hours (if that) before the trial started.

The prosecution has to disclose its case to the defence.

The defence then must serve a a pre-trial defence statement outlining what the defence case will be and any specfic legal issues. This is important so that the Crown can adequately prepare to argue the case. Especially alibi's must be disclosed and a list of witnesses given.

This means for example, that the police have the chance to interview named witnesses.

These are the Crown Court rules.


https://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/lexis...N-VY01-F188-N2C9-00000-00/Disclosure—overview

 

[minusfour]

This is such a heart breaking case!

Two facts keep chasing themselves around in my head. The first is the body disposal in the cesspit. Covered cunningly by a car. Surely at some stage the car has to be moved, and the cesspit emptied. Even if all the soft tissue had decomposed by when the time came for it to be emptied, surely the skeleton would be discovered?

The second- if anyone were to be able to gain financially from Helen's death, either the body had to be found, (and the cesspit could never be innocent), or there is a prolonged-years long-process to have her declared officially dead?

What could he have been thinking?

 

[DollyDiamond]

The Prosecution puts the case together and calls all the witnesses that they perceive will support the facts in the case. The witnesses do not have any choice. If you are called to be a witness and do not turn up you can be charged with contempt of court. (A defendant's spouse can only be forced to give evidence in limited cases).

As a matter of interest, the reason the defence always goes last is so the jury has the defence's case uppermost in their minds, and is a fairer trial because of it.

*********

On another note, I haven't seen this concept mentioned as yet but I may have missed it as I have been forced to skim a lot of posts in the evenings while tired some nights (got flu as well ugh).

What if HB discovered IS was drugging her on that fateful Monday?​

It's an interesting theory but I get the impression from her wedding emails to friends that morning that Helen's guard was down on the day she was killed and (although obviously pre-planned for months) to a degree it may have been opportunistic. ie she was asleep on the sofa/bed and IS thought 'It's now or never'. I suspect all her talk of a wedding he had no intention of going through with was a contributory factor that spurred him into action. I must say, I really hope for Helen's sake she never got wise to him, the idea of the horrific truth suddenly dawning on her, and her being aware of her own doom is too awful to contemplate.

 

[Alyce]

Pictures of recovery shown to jury

DCI Kent added: “None of us really knew what we were going to find when we started to excavate, the well was about 1890 in its construction.” Further photos are being shown to jurors as the search and rescue team continue to excavate down into the side of the well. A photo is now shown to jurors of what DCI Kent saw when he first looked into the cess pit. DCI Kent said: “When the body of Helen Bailey was fully removed, it became apparent what the black lines I saw when I first looked into the cess pit were. “Helen was wearing a black or blue and white striped top when she went into that well. “The white material had rotted away, but the black material remained on her body when she came out of the cess pit.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[Alyce]

This is the only picture we have of the excavation