GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[DollyDiamond]

Thank you; very clear

I, too, wonder about the prosecution witnesses. The prosecution, so far, has seemed pretty wishy washy over what appears to be an open and shut case... Am I alone in thinking that?

I hope it picks up.

I am glad you said that LozDa, I have felt frustrated at times. The Pros don't seem to have given a huge amount of detail on things like the transportation of the body, method of drugging or other evidence of pre planning. Perhaps they just don't have enough evidence and it would be too speculative to present. One of my biggest frustrations (along with the police failing to spot and open that floor hatch in the garage for 3 whole months) is that IS was able to hang onto, and then 'lose' his mobile phone. That phone was obviously a hot potato for him and held some powerful evidence for the prosecution!

 

[Alyce]

Bricks in cess pit had to be removed individually to recover author

“The recovery team was working until 9-10pm that evening. Then we made a start again the following day. “We’d spoken to pathologist Nathaniel Carey at this time. “The second day of excavation took place on July 16.” Jurors are now being shown further pictures as the search team continue to excavate the cess pit at the couple’s Royston home. The search team had to remove each brick on the side of the cess pit individually by hand, DCI Kent said.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[MillyM]

Something has gnawed at me almost from start of this case last year. This statement from Jay Nolen-Latchland today and the evidence from two during trial contain, for me, a factor which is red flagging. I don't know if for anyone else, but this won't leave my head.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The prosecution has to disclose its case to the defence.

The defence then must serve a a pre-trial defence statement outlining what the defence case will be and any specfic legal issues. This is important so that the Crown can adequately prepare to argue the case. Especially alibi's must be disclosed and a list of witnesses given.

This means for example, that the police have the chance to interview named witnesses.

These are the Crown Court rules.


https://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/lexis...N-VY01-F188-N2C9-00000-00/Disclosure—overview

Thank you Mr Jitty. So no last minute surprises. I still cannot believe that in the OP case Defence disclosure was made on the first day of the trial. Nel must have been furious.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, apologies... I think what I meant by the prosecution witnesses is not that they were speaking in promotion of the prosecution but that, so far, the prosecution's selection of witnesses hasn't exactly strengthened their case.

I just hope they've got some stronger witness testimonies lined up with medical and forensic statements perhaps.

No apols needed ........ I have been playing catch up today with the live evidence posts and had not read your comments, or many of the others - just added my two pennorth without reading back ! will catch up later x

 

[Alyce]

Pet dog's body first to be recovered

“We used two search officers, wearing breathing apparatus, to excavate Helen’s body. “Boris, Helen’s dog, was the first to be recovered out of the well. We weren’t 100 per cent certain Boris was in there until we got down and started to have a closer look. “After Helen’s body was recovered we also recovered a pillow case which contained a dog’s toy and two bin bags.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651


ah this gives me hope. I said, back at the beginning, that I thought IS put the toy inside the pillow case, to get Boris to go inside and then suffocated him inside the case. Not nice, but better than going alive into that cess pit.

 

[Alyce]

Recovery process took two days

Jurors are shown photos of these items that were taken from the well. “That excavation process took the best part of two days. “We employed a forensic dentist who came to the house on the Saturday, and using Helen Bailey’s dental records he established the body was indeed Helen.” DCI Kent is now being cross examined by the defence.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[neteditor]

This is such a heart breaking case!

Two facts keep chasing themselves around in my head. The first is the body disposal in the cesspit. Covered cunningly by a car. Surely at some stage the car has to be moved, and the cesspit emptied. Even if all the soft tissue had decomposed by when the time came for it to be emptied, surely the skeleton would be discovered?

The second- if anyone were to be able to gain financially from Helen's death, either the body had to be found, (and the cesspit could never be innocent), or there is a prolonged-years long-process to have her declared officially dead?

What could he have been thinking?

This is what makes me think he never intended to kill her all along. I think he only intended to gaslight her until her confidence was so crushed he could take control of her finances.

I keep wondering if she discovered his plan that Monday morning and there was some kind of set-to between them during which he overpowered her and accidentally suffocated her while trying to subdue her or prevent her from leaving.

He had to hide her body because he knew evidence of the zopiclone would be in her system. I think the "great place to hide a body" line came to him and it seemed safest as he could get her in there without being seen.

He still wanted control of her money though so in the end his greed in this respect is what caused his downfall.

 

[Alyce]

Something has gnawed at me almost from start of this case last year. This statement from Jay Nolen-Latchland today and the evidence from two during trial contain, for me, a factor which is red flagging. I don't know if for anyone else, but this won't leave my head.

I also have thoughts, might be the same

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's an interesting theory but I get the impression from her wedding emails to friends that morning that Helen's guard was down on the day she was killed and (although obviously pre-planned for months) to a degree it may have been opportunistic. ie she was asleep on the sofa/bed and IS thought 'It's now or never'. I suspect all her talk of a wedding he had no intention of going through with was a contributory factor that spurred him into action. I must say, I really hope for Helen's sake she never got wise to him, the idea of the horrific truth suddenly dawning on her, and her being aware of her own doom is too awful to contemplate.

He was obviously working up to killing Helen IMO but I think it is possible that something triggered the event that day. My only other feeling is that maybe Helen had an adverse reaction to the possible withdrawal of the drug. Seizures are a known occurrence when sudden withdrawal of Zopiclone is made. I would like to know whether her brain, after 3 months in the cesspit, could have shown this up or not.

 

[Squamous]

Rescue team had to dig body out of well

A number of photos are now being shown to the courtroom. The first picture shows the garage of the Royston house, with two forensic tents nearby. DCI Kent added: “There was a lot of press interest at this time because we were back at the house searching. “This gave me concern and we wanted to give Helen dignity in her excavation.” Another photo shown to the courtroom shows the forensic tent open, with the garage visible. “We had a discussion the day how we were going to extract Helen from this well. “We wanted to use as close techniques as possible to recovering a body from open water. “We needed to dig down the side of the well, excavating the modern brick driveway to expose the side of the well, and then go in sideways. “It wouldn’t have been possible to retrieve Helen from the top of the well, from ground level. “This whole process is done by hand. It was Norfolk Urban Search and Rescue Team who excavated the body, a very experienced team who often go out to disaster zones to recover bodies.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

It's so hard to read of this man who had never met Helen being so concerned for her dignity and privacy in death compared with the man who was supposed to love her.

 

[Alyce]

Nurse to give evidence

The next witness will be Margaret Halliday, who gave an observation of Stewart when he is in custody. Margaret is a registered adult nurse, who saw Stewart at a police station in Stevenage on July 15 last year, and examined him on request of the police.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[Alyce]

Fiance was 'polite' during examination

She tells jurors: “The interview started at 3.10pm in the medical room at Stevenage custody suite. “He walked unaided into the medical room and was well kept in appearance. “His speech was clear, concise and he was polite. “After speaking to him for a while, he seemed stressed and low in mood. “I was told he had medication but they weren’t with him, and he would later on require them. “I spoke with him of his past medical history, and he gave me the detail of some things he had suffered from in the past. “Stewart had requested to see a healthcare professional regarding his medication he would be requiring.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[Alyce]

Nurse tells how fiance had previously considered suicide

“I had a discussion with him about his mood, he said he had lots going on in his mind. “He said he was unsure of what was happening next, but he didn’t elaborate further. “He told me on the month prior to the examination he was standing on the edge of a cliff considering taking his own life. “He said he was seeing a mental health team in Letchworth. “I spoke to a colleague who had seen Stewart previously. “The examination finished at 3.30pm. There were no police officers present and he could speak to me about any subject he wanted to raise with me.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[Alyce]

Accused was 'fit to be interviewed' nurse says

Margaret Halliday is now being cross examined by the defence. She admits: “He was fit to be interviewed but it was felt that police should obtain an appropriate adult to be present with Stewart during his interviews.” That’s the end of Miss Halliday’s evidence. There will now be a mid-morning break, until 11.45am. After the break, jurors will hear about Stewart’s police interviews after his arrest.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-more-12512651

 

[cottonweaver]

Whilst they are on a short break,

again it's striking how he seeks out medical professionals in order to manipulate and exploit

 

[Alyce]

Whilst they are on a short break,

again it's striking how he seeks out medical professionals in order to manipulate and exploit

Indeed. Got to have all those official back ups !

 

[mrjitty]

I am glad you said that LozDa, I have felt frustrated at times. The Pros don't seem to have given a huge amount of detail on things like the transportation of the body, method of drugging or other evidence of pre planning. Perhaps they just don't have enough evidence and it would be too speculative to present. One of my biggest frustrations (along with the police failing to spot and open that floor hatch in the garage for 3 whole months) is that IS was able to hang onto, and then 'lose' his mobile phone. That phone was obviously a hot potato for him and held some powerful evidence for the prosecution!

With all due respect, I think this is just you having the wrong expectation?

The prosecution may not have evidence or witnesses to body transportation, nor would any witness be allowed to speculate on it.

Nevertheless the body was found in the cesspit with the cover closed - therefore as a question of logical inference it was in fact transported there.

The list of people who can have transported it consists of one name - as a question of trial evidence to date.

 

[cottonweaver]

.....and another friend of Helen's who has only met her twice in person and who'd never met IS.
This must have been ideal for IS.

How he must have loathed the notion of a wedding and having all her friends and family present altogether, making connections. This has occurred to me before as another one of the several reasons he wasn't going to get to the altar.

 

[mrjitty]

This is what makes me think he never intended to kill her all along. I think he only intended to gaslight her until her confidence was so crushed he could take control of her finances.

I keep wondering if she discovered his plan that Monday morning and there was some kind of set-to between them during which he overpowered her and accidentally suffocated her while trying to subdue her or prevent her from leaving.

He had to hide her body because he knew evidence of the zopiclone would be in her system. I think the "great place to hide a body" line came to him and it seemed safest as he could get her in there without being seen.

He still wanted control of her money though so in the end his greed in this respect is what caused his downfall.

I suspect you are right

We should not rule out that this type of person is impulsive - so it could have been spur of the moment