GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[cottonweaver]

You are correct. There is discrepancy in the evidence given for the week end prior to Monday April 11.

Jamie's evidence
The weekend before April 11 there was nothing unusual at all. We spent the Saturday night watching TV. It was hard to remember what happened because it was so normal.
“Helen had made a cottage pie for us all. There was nothing untoward at all about that evening.”

Olivers evidence
On a normal Friday night Oliver would drive home from work, see his dad, have a shower and wait for his girlfriend to finish work, he said.
“On the Sunday (April 10, 2016) I popped back to the house to collect work clothes for Monday. I remember seeing Helen, who asked if I wanted any food and I said no. “I popped into the lounge to see dad and Jamie. I was at the house no more than 20 minutes.
“I spent the night at my girlfriend’s parents house, and went directly to work.


AM ( Olivers gf )
Girlfiend of Oliver Stewart is today's first witness
The first witness is Alexandra Mcgarry, who is the girlfriend of Stewart’s son, Oliver Stewart. She tells the court she met Oliver through hockey. She is being asked about the weekend in particular before Helen went missing.
“On the Saturday before Helen went missing, I went shopping with Oliver to Cambridge.
“After this Oliver dropped me off at mine to pick up my car and then I drove to his and stayed at his this evening. I remember Helen looking quite stressed that particular evening, she didn’t say hi, she kept her head down and just walked into the kitchen.
“I heard she was in her jeep and got very anxious, so I thought it could be to do with that.”
On Sunday, she seemed in better spirits. We woke up, had some breakfast, I drive home, Oliver had some college work to do and I wanted him to concentrate on that so he stayed at his and I went back home.
Alex said she was aware the police had been round and were asking lots of questions. She is being asked about Helen in the weeks before these events.
“I very rarely stayed at Oliver’s so I can’t really comment. On the Saturday (April 9) she seemed very stressed. I got the impression she didn’t really like me staying over.



IS evidence
He talks about J and O playing football on Sunday afternoon in the garden.


The two things that stand out for me.
The everything was normal comments are contradicted by the girlfriend saying there was tension - at least on the Saturday evening.
OS saying he was at the house for 20 minutes only on Sunday. Girlfriend says he stayed home on Sunday to study and IS also says he was there during the day - his statement said Oliver was there Sunday afternoon playing football

Thankyou for pasting this. It's so hard to get the full picture from a live feed update.

What stood out for me was, beyond others already mentioned:

“Jamie is asked about how Helen and Stewart normally dried bedding. He said it would be put over dining room chairs and wouldn’t be put in the tumble dryer. Jamie said Helen was in good health.”

when Broadstairs cleaner says ““She also saw clothes were hung across chairs to dry and this was odd because Helen always used the dryer.””
so she was "stingy" with the tumble dryer at HLodge but not at Broadstairs.

I am going to paste the whole testimony as I find it easier and we had nothing new from the hearing today.

 

[icemaiden65]

And, I meant to say, even SUDEP usually leaves distinctive signs for a coroner such as tongue biting/wounds/bruising. It isn't just a gentle 'swoon' - promise you.

 

[snoopydog]

Even the docs were unsure of COD! I find it a little odd that the pathologist used SUDEP as a possible cause. This usually only happens to know epileptics who are known to have fits during the night. The death also occurs at night. I have a friend who lost one of her sons this way. Diane's "fit" as far as I can remember happened during the day when she was out in the garden. That would be so unusual for SUDEP. It would be interesting to know if anyone witnessed her collapse. If so, the pathologist may have been swayed by what the witness described if he had nothing else to go on.

I really hope the police have looked into this and obtained the Path Lab report and spoken to the Pathologist who was responsible for it.

IS was there. He tried CPR ....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Duchy]

btw I'm guessing that SUDEP is Sudden Unexpected Death from Epilepsy, is that right?

Yes. Non-epileptic seizures are not caused by disrupted electrical activity in the brain and so are different from epilepsy. They can have a number of different causes. 1st wife did not have epilepsy.

 

[Duchy]

I just thought why on earth Didn't IS just text himself from Helens phone to say she was going away for a break?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good point. He could turn off the wifi on the phone then send an sms. All it would show was a ping from the area mast so Helen could have sent it at the beginning of her 'journey to Broadstairs' whilst still in the same mast area.

No forget that. He was somewhere else with his phone wasn't he. Erm.....thinking....

 

[Cherwell]

“Jamie is asked about how Helen and Stewart normally dried bedding. He said it would be put over dining room chairs and wouldn’t be put in the tumble dryer. Jamie said Helen was in good health.”

when Broadstairs cleaner says ““She also saw clothes were hung across chairs to dry and this was odd because Helen always used the dryer.””
so she was "stingy" with the tumble dryer at HLodge but not at Broadstairs.

I have no idea how the method of drying laundry comes into this.
However, tumble-drying is not recommended for some items, so perhaps Helen was particular about following the instructions on care labels.

 

[faybradshaw]

from what I have read ( there is not much info ) there were no witnesses.

What are the chances of them reopening the investigation into his wife's death?

 

[Duchy]

Oh. So IS didn't appear to know she was epileptic.

She wasn't.

 

[cottonweaver]

I have no idea how the method of drying laundry comes into this.
However, tumble-drying is not recommended for some items, so perhaps Helen was particular about following the instructions on care labels.

The prosecution asked the question so maybe they think it's relevant?

 

[snoopydog]

Quick question for techies.

Can he have altered a text he already sent to Helen's phone on Monday night?

Because police said they examined his phone when they first went to the house, which would have been on 15th.

No he could only have deleted it and sent a new one


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

from what I have read ( there is not much info ) there were no witnesses.

Except IS.

And he must have called the air ambulance.

 

[cottonweaver]

What are the chances of them reopening the investigation into his wife's death?

I don't think they routinely do toxicology on hair but it would be helpful to all concerned if they had, seeing as Diane was cremated so they wouldn't be able to date it like they did with Helen's BUT if find it hard to believe that Diane's pathologist didn't do tissue sampling for meds of all types .

this is what the toxicol for Helen said on Zops

Dr Piper said: “With hair samples, Zopiclone takes four weeks to show. If ingested orally a drug is normally detected in the blood, then the liver, then the urine sample.

“If someone ingests Zopiclone, it will not be detectable in the majority of the population after a very short period of time - within the blood you’re normally talking within a number of days.

Dr Piper said: “The body samples [from Helen’s body] were all analysed for drugs, each of them analysed for cannabis, cocaine, amphetamine - no drugs of this nature were found in these sample types.

“Each of these body samples were also analysed for prescription drugs - and Zopiclone was detected.

“In addition the chest cavity fluid was found to contain paracetamol. The level of this was low and negligible really - below the concentration you’d expect to have a therapeutic effect.

“With the zopiclone, it was barely detected in the muscle tissue sample [from Helen’s body] - it was a very low concentration. “The liver specimen detected a concentration found to be below a toxic level, to the point where it starts to have a negative effect on the body.”

the issue on the Zops contra-indications seems to be that Zop can cause seizures, rarely, on abrupt discontinuation.
Helen's toxicology leads us to assume that the Diane post mortem would have had to be done within a few days?
So perhaps it's all been discounted by the police who have already read that report???

 

[pinklilies]

You are correct. There is discrepancy in the evidence given for the week end prior to Monday April 11.

Jamie's evidence
The weekend before April 11 there was nothing unusual at all. We spent the Saturday night watching TV. It was hard to remember what happened because it was so normal.
“Helen had made a cottage pie for us all. There was nothing untoward at all about that evening.”

Olivers evidence
On a normal Friday night Oliver would drive home from work, see his dad, have a shower and wait for his girlfriend to finish work, he said.
“On the Sunday (April 10, 2016) I popped back to the house to collect work clothes for Monday. I remember seeing Helen, who asked if I wanted any food and I said no. “I popped into the lounge to see dad and Jamie. I was at the house no more than 20 minutes.
“I spent the night at my girlfriend’s parents house, and went directly to work.


AM ( Olivers gf )
Girlfiend of Oliver Stewart is today's first witness
The first witness is Alexandra Mcgarry, who is the girlfriend of Stewart’s son, Oliver Stewart. She tells the court she met Oliver through hockey. She is being asked about the weekend in particular before Helen went missing.
“On the Saturday before Helen went missing, I went shopping with Oliver to Cambridge.
“After this Oliver dropped me off at mine to pick up my car and then I drove to his and stayed at his this evening. I remember Helen looking quite stressed that particular evening, she didn’t say hi, she kept her head down and just walked into the kitchen.
“I heard she was in her jeep and got very anxious, so I thought it could be to do with that.”
On Sunday, she seemed in better spirits. We woke up, had some breakfast, I drive home, Oliver had some college work to do and I wanted him to concentrate on that so he stayed at his and I went back home.
Alex said she was aware the police had been round and were asking lots of questions. She is being asked about Helen in the weeks before these events.
“I very rarely stayed at Oliver’s so I can’t really comment. On the Saturday (April 9) she seemed very stressed. I got the impression she didn’t really like me staying over.



IS evidence
He talks about J and O playing football on Sunday afternoon in the garden.


The two things that stand out for me.
The everything was normal comments are contradicted by the girlfriend saying there was tension - at least on the Saturday evening.
OS saying he was at the house for 20 minutes only on Sunday. Girlfriend says he stayed home on Sunday to study and IS also says he was there during the day - his statement said Oliver was there Sunday afternoon playing football

And IS recollection of that weekend.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486

15:02
The scene at home

Stewart said he and Helen watched football on TV and Helen made cottage pie on the Sunday.

“That was one of Helen’s specialities. I do remember a long dog walk.

“When we got back Jamie and Oliver were playing football in the garden.

“Helen kept Boris inside because he gets overexcited with footballs.

“I don’t remember much else.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Squamous]

I have no idea how the method of drying laundry comes into this.
However, tumble-drying is not recommended for some items, so perhaps Helen was particular about following the instructions on care labels.

Also, I get the impression that the Broadstairs house is a tiny terrace. There's room at the Royston house to air dry bed linen, sounds like there may not be room to swing a cat in Broadstairs.

 

[snoopydog]

She wasn't.

Is this for certain?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cherwell]

The prosecution asked the question so maybe they think it's relevant?

I know. I was just offering a possible explanation.

 

[Duchy]

IS was there. He tried CPR ....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So he says.

 

[Tortoise]

What are the chances of them reopening the investigation into his wife's death?

If she had life insurance possibly, especially if it was a recent one.

 

[snoopydog]

So he says.

Yes.... from something he posted he said he'd failed at CPR but was always probably in vain.... IM sure it was


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Interested Bystander]

Is it known whether she had any history of epilepsy? People seem to be assuming she didn't, but is that known for certain?

In one of the threads (sorry cannot remember which one) someone quoted in parenthesis (as thought it had been cut from a comment/report) that she did not have epilepsy. I don't know from where it was clipped. I know the family is still very upset, ie it could be something that they may have said or it may be from one of the FB pages. Even IS admits that the doctors did not know and I think their guess at SUDEP is so wrong that it can almost definitely be ruled out. Hence my surprise that a pathologist would guess at something that just does not fit the known conditions necessary for this to happen.