GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[cottonweaver]

I know. I was just offering a possible explanation.

True it could just be a bedding issue anyway and dining room chairs may make sense in Royston and they have plenty of dining room chairs to take drying all the duvets and sheets etc

 

[Cherwell]

In one of the threads (sorry cannot remember which one) someone quoted in parenthesis (as thought it had been cut from a comment/report) that she did not have epilepsy. I don't know from where it was clipped. I know the family is still very upset, ie it could be something that they may have said or it may be from one of the FB pages. Even IS admits that the doctors did not know and I think their guess at SUDEP is so wrong that it can almost definitely be ruled out. Hence my surprise that a pathologist would guess at something that just does not fit the known conditions necessary for this to happen.

Yes, that is difficult to explain if she definitely had no history of epilepsy. :thinking:
Not sure I want to take IS's word for anything.

 

[Squamous]

In one of the threads (sorry cannot remember which one) someone quoted in parenthesis (as thought it had been cut from a comment/report) that she did not have epilepsy. I don't know from where it was clipped. I know the family is still very upset, ie it could be something that they may have said or it may be from one of the FB pages. Even IS admits that the doctors did not know and I think their guess at SUDEP is so wrong that it can almost definitely be ruled out. Hence my surprise that a pathologist would guess at something that just does not fit the known conditions necessary for this to happen.

Did SUDEP come from the pathologist or coroner?

I find the death of both of them very suspicious but equally can't imagine that IS somehow has the knack of making women drop dead with not a scratch on them. Very weird.

If he said he did CPR I should think he did, it would be clear from the body if he had and also the air ambulance attended and the ambulance operator would have instructed him to.

 

[Tortoise]

Did SUDEP come from the pathologist or coroner?

I find the death of both of them very suspicious but equally can't imagine that IS somehow has the knack of making women drop dead with not a scratch on them. Very weird.

If he said he did CPR I should think he did, it would be clear from the body if he had and also the air ambulance attended and the ambulance operator would have instructed him to.

Yes, we don't know of course if he performed it in a timely manner. Because he did say it was 'probably always in vain'.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Did SUDEP come from the pathologist or coroner?

I find the death of both of them very suspicious but equally can't imagine that IS somehow has the knack of making women drop dead with not a scratch on them. Very weird.


If he said he did CPR I should think he did, it would be clear from the body if he had and also the air ambulance attended and the ambulance operator would have instructed him to.

Unsure. I have read it was the Pathologist's report but only from posts on here. I think someone who uses the FB pages posted the information. I do not belong to FB so I cannot help. Maybe the Coroner's report is available somewhere??

There would have been some bruising to the chest if he carried out CPR correctly but may the doc on the air ambulance did too OR was it too late by the time the helicopter arrived? I wonder if there is anything that far back still available from press reports?

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is interesting (together with others that can be accessed on the page). It seems Pathologists and Coroners are known for not making it easy to be sure of COD. A special study was carried out with respect to SUDEP.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7894834

“The wide variation in practice of individual coroners and pathologists in the investigation and registering of sudden deaths raises issues of quality assurance”

 

[Alyce]

Why would he send her a text of just 3 kisses at 10:10pm 11th April?

What was his scenario at that time?

So he is, by his own admission, annoyed with Helen for just going off without discussing it with him, she has never done this kind of thing before .....but instead of a text asking if she is ok, if she is settled into the cottage etc, he just sends 3 kisses.

does he think this will look normal and as though he is fine with her going away to get some space ?

 

[Cherwell]

So he is, by his own admission, annoyed with Helen for just going off without discussing it with him, she has never done this kind of thing before .....but instead of a text asking if she is ok, if she is settled into the cottage etc, he just sends 3 kisses.

does he think this will look normal and as though he is fine with her going away to get some space ?

And didn't he say she asked not to be contacted "in any way" ?

 

[Alyce]

Good point. He could turn off the wifi on the phone then send an sms. All it would show was a ping from the area mast so Helen could have sent it at the beginning of her 'journey to Broadstairs' whilst still in the same mast area.

No forget that. He was somewhere else with his phone wasn't he. Erm.....thinking....

That is a good plan.


What he could have done ( but clearly did not ) was
At the house
wrap his phone in foil - even put it into his car for good measure
send a message from Helen's phone to his ( it wont go through and no record of where his phone is at that time )
Switch off Helen's phone
Get back into his car, drive to the solicitors or the tip, and then pick up the message - later - on his phone

 

[BatFace]

Oh yes, I think he put a lot of emphasis on the "in any way". So not even a séance, despite being Sykic enough to be well aware she was dead.

 

[Alyce]

I have no idea how the method of drying laundry comes into this.
However, tumble-drying is not recommended for some items, so perhaps Helen was particular about following the instructions on care labels.

Or, perhaps they never tumble dried stuff at Royston, because they were there all the time, so could leave things to dry for as long as it took.

But at Broadstairs, if it was a visit of only a few days, then they would want to have things dried quickly , before they closed up the cottage and left.

 

[Alyce]

Except IS.

And he must have called the air ambulance.

Indeed. And I think, from the info that we have, it said that IS found her unconscious, so even he, seemingly, cannot say exactly what happened to create the unconscious state.

 

[cottonweaver]

a few posters have mentioned SUDEP but I haven't tracked back fully.

All i have from last year is the memorial page comment by the sister
"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit".

I find it disconcerting that I can't find the record of the inquest opening and closing in any local paper when I do a targeted search for the likely date - to ascertain when it was held.

It would be really helpful to know when the PM was performed as it goes directly to the ability to test ingested Zops in body tissues ( not hair) as in previous post. ( maybe a local paper would not even give a date of perform of the PM?)

Unrelated but from same source, I had Diane's birthday being 24th April.

 

[Joely 123]

...Except that it wouldn't be a natural death, and would not be considered just a coincidence, as this time round they would probably have been able to prove that it was caused by the drug he was giving her...(or withdrawal from, etc.) The fact that his previous wife died of an epileptic fit would mean that more thorough investigations would be carried out this time round and he would likely not get away with that twice...
I agree with the idea of other posters that he may well have intended for her to have some sort of accident (e.g. driving) whilst under influence of the drug or similar, which, given her dislike of driving and nervousness about it, would be more plausible than another wife dying of an epileptic fit...

Although we don't know if the Police Investigation had - at the time of Helen 'missing' - looked back to the demise of IS's wife - we do know that they were suspicious of IS from the beginning. And as one Detective said to him 'the last person to see one alive is a suspect'.
It deserves investigation of course - as to the death of Diane. But to separate Helen's death from this - just from the point of the Trial, the Prosecution hold many factors in their argument towards the guilt of IS - and I think we are going to see move evidence of this. In 'softly, softly catch the monkey'. Good to hear your thoughts wolf cub.

 

[snoopydog]

I've just read all his posts on the widow page and I've concluded this is a man with low intelligence. He's VERY poorly written. I think Helen made him feel emasculated, no doubt. She's incredibly intelligent and sharp, even her responses in the same posts as his you can see there's a world of difference between them. I really think Helen has projected this knight in shining armour onto this man because she was so desperately sad. He comes over like a dummy. I do not get it at all.

Also, this. http://planetgrief.com/2012/06/11/good-samaritans/ see his response in the comments.

She was a strong minded person who did what she wanted. He obviously couldn't handle that.


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[Tortoise]

So he is, by his own admission, annoyed with Helen for just going off without discussing it with him, she has never done this kind of thing before .....but instead of a text asking if she is ok, if she is settled into the cottage etc, he just sends 3 kisses.

does he think this will look normal and as though he is fine with her going away to get some space ?

I really don't think he'd come up with the idea of her going to Broadstairs yet, on the Monday night, because he saw both sons on Monday and yet told them on Tuesday night.

The three kisses would also go against his own story of her saying don't contact me in any way. He tries to get around this by saying he was annoyed with himself after sending the text. BS

I think the three kisses could sound like he thinks she has gone out and it's too early for him to get worried yet. Say he thought she must have arranged to go out with some friends and forgotten to tell him.

It fits with his rather ridiculous stance that he shouldn't be worried about her even when he calls 101. He thinks if he shows worry police will think it's an act to cover up guilty knowledge. I remember him saying he didn't want to do a press conference because the media would twist his words. So I think right from the start his plan was not to be concerned and not report, in case his act wasn't convincing.

So I think on the Monday night he sent to show he wasn't concerned. Then that night he stewed and stewed. What if the police questioned the boys and one of them inadvertently mentioned the garage manhole, for eg. So he decided on Tuesday to have her go missing from Broadstairs, thinking of the whole range of possibilities that opened up. She could have been suicidal on the cliff tops etc. That is when he had to invent a note otherwise there would be nothing pointing to that location.

And on Monday the plan was he would just play ignorant as to where she'd gone. Went out while he was out without saying anything, and he assumed she'd be back so he never mentioned concerns to anyone, because that is the acting part that made him nervous. He wanted other people to raise concerns.

 

[cottonweaver]

I've just read all his posts on the widow page and I've concluded this is a man with low intelligence. He's VERY poorly written. I think Helen made him feel emasculated, no doubt. She's incredibly intelligent and sharp, even her responses in the same posts as his you can see there's a world of difference between them. I really think Helen has projected this knight in shining armour onto this man because she was so desperately sad. He comes over like a dummy. I do not get it at all.

Also, this. http://planetgrief.com/2012/06/11/good-samaritans/ see his response in the comments.

She was a strong minded person who did what she wanted. He obviously couldn't handle that.


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from your link, am surprised at her description of Ian
"GGHW is a man who will talk to anybody and is one of the kindest people I have ever met, but his advice was to leave her alone."

 

[snoopydog]

Another thing noted in his posts was his mentions of not being able to use his smart phone well. An inability to delete a post that he was drunk when he wrote for example... he can't even use a phone.

We are dealing with a man with lower than average intelligence here but thinks he's really clever. I think whatever his plan was initially it was very simple then once he started it began realising he wouldn't get away with it and these other things have snowballed from there. He's really not that bright and luckily he's so stupid that he's going to end up in jail for a very long time. I bet there's loads of blunders we are still to hear about


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[Duchy]

a few posters have mentioned SUDEP but I haven't tracked back fully.

All i have from last year is the memorial page comment by the sister
"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit".

She might mean unexpected seizure. This seizure would have an underlying cause. MOO

 

[Annad]

I've just read all his posts on the widow page and I've concluded this is a man with low intelligence. He's VERY poorly written. I think Helen made him feel emasculated, no doubt. She's incredibly intelligent and sharp, even her responses in the same posts as his you can see there's a world of difference between them. I really think Helen has projected this knight in shining armour onto this man because she was so desperately sad. He comes over like a dummy. I do not get it at all.

Also, this. http://planetgrief.com/2012/06/11/good-samaritans/ see his response in the comments.

She was a strong minded person who did what she wanted. He obviously couldn't handle that.


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OMG! Did you read HB response to his comment!

Ian: You are probably learning (fast) that I often ignore advice. Sometimes, like then, it works out, other times I'm left sobbing and wailing, "But I thought etc etc."
You have been (publicly) warned.