GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #8

[ColourPurple]

My understanding is that the expert has had another investigation of the ipad and has not found searches re: zopiclone. IS said she searched on her iPad and showed him (IIRC?) and must have deleted the history. I believe the expert has specifically investigated this precise area.

This is MOO: Remember the legal adjournment on Monday? The prosecution wanted to know if the evidence about Helen deleting these searches, and the 500k ransom demand, were admissable as IS had not put them into his defence statement (so the police had not been able to investigate them previously). It looks like the judge has said they are admissable (since he hasn't directed to strike them out) but has allowed the prosecution to investigate and bring new evidence to court. I feel inclined to assume, based on this, that the 500k demand could be the other evidence... could there be anything in a book related to that? Of course it might be hard to investigate that since J&N don't exist to ask...

ETA: Thanks Moll we cross posted there but said the same except you said it better and in brief

OK,I'm with you know.Yes it makes sense that if he was allowed to use evidence the prosecution had never been told about that they would then want to present evidence that addresses the claims he made.

 

[Cherwell]

I agree with you CW, your rationale is spot on. He's not delusional, far from it! He knows his story is BS but he also knows that he has to play along with what to him are artificial constructs imposed on him by lesser beings. That is feelings, love, morals and empathy that the jury will feel and expect him to feel too. So, like all intelligent psychopaths he has learned to mimic these to help him project whatever persona he needs to in order to fulfil his aims.

His aims right now are two-fold:

1. to convince the jury he is innocent.
2. in the event he can't convince them of his innocence (he knows he can't) he just wants to enjoy the intriguing and fascinating feelings the drama of the trial allow him to feel. He feels alive and satiated.

The persona of confidence he currently exudes is merely a symptom or projection of the the intense calm and fascination he feels. Neteditor's OBF has understandably misinterpreted his confidence as a sign he believes he is convincing the jury. My view is he knows he's not convincing anyone but he's still enjoying the ride.

Hope this makes sense

BIB It doesn't sound like he's doing a very good job there, though.

Michelle: "He wiped away a tear once! And do you know when that was??? It was when he was describing how two ornaments were broken during the police search!"

 

[michelle230]

Yikes - seems to me that the witnesses for the prosecution and the witnesses for the defence are two and the same thing
The poor cafe owner looked like he`d rather be at the dentist or waiting for a flight from Luton airport which has been indefinitely delayed due to raging snow blizzards (and the refreshment areas have been closed for the night).
He looked very uncomfortable. He couldn`t see anything as he`s forgotten his glasses so when the defence referred to parts of his statement, he had to have them read out to him as he couldn`t see. After the clerk offered her glasses (still couldn`t see!), the very considerate Judge said he would lend him his glasses if he thought that would help!!!
He definitely saw Helen - he did - it`s just that he couldn`t actually see his own statement under his nose that was the problem!! And besides that, what`s a few months between friends - it`s not as if it`s really important :giggle:

 

[jessie]

OBF thinks IS is confident he's making a good impression or WTTE.

From reading everything and from the wonderful WSers firsthand reports of the courtroom plus Bish's fascinating posts I have the impression IS - in his all over the place mind - actually believes he will be found Not Guilty.

He has covered everything explaining J & N's kidnapping/dognapping, his own suffering at their violent hands :slapfight:, being forced to lie to family and police, constantly under such terrifying pressure from J & N until that mini phone call when on remand hone: (accompanied by apologies and condolences) uke: that finally freed him to open up and tell all about what happened.

I sincerely hope he believes the verdict will find him innocent of all these ridiculous crimes, it will make the Guilty verdict all the more incomprehensible to him and his suffering will be evident. :noooo:

I am not a vindictive person, but I would so like to be in court when the jury return to say ....
IS - you are going down :behindbar


(apologies for the emojies, but otherwise my language would be inadmissable)

 

[BlueMosaic]

I'm sure, for me, there will be another case along soon that will involve me as much as this one. Perhaps that is the old journo in me that can't let go.

During this case, I have made two wonderful new friends, we have moved our contact from here to other places and I am feeling blessed. I also think Helen would approve of women coming together in friendship as a result of this awful mess. Hunkerdown is getting a Boris/Bailey. I feel I've experienced an incredible example of selflessness, kindness and understanding from the actions of the dear Mr John B, and his partner, who seem to be able to spread warmth and love despite their tragic loss and trauma of this awful trial. Despite the horror of it all, I feel Helen has given me some wonderful gifts. I never met her, but I know I will never forget her. I will be buying all of her books.

Well said. I hope with justice for Helen and her beloved Boris will come some peace of mind for her family and friends, but nothing will ever repair the damage this man has done, wiping out a loved,vivacious and talented woman, and trying to contaminate her memory with his lies which have shown no regard for her loved ones. The Risen Bishop has explained so well why, but we have all had thoughts (I'm sure) of "if only..."

 

[michelle230]

Yikes - seems to me that the witnesses for the prosecution and the witnesses for the defence are two and the same thing
The poor cafe owner looked like he`d rather be at the dentist, or waiting for a flight from Luton airport which has been indefinitely delayed due to raging snow blizzards (and the refreshment areas have been closed for the night). Anywhere but standing in the witness box! He looked very uncomfortable.
He couldn`t see anything as he`s forgotten his glasses (as I`m sure you`ve gathered) so when the defence referred to parts of his statement, he had to have them read out to him as he couldn`t see. After the clerk offered her glasses (still couldn`t see!), the very considerate Judge said he would lend him his glasses if he thought that would help!!!
He definitely saw Helen - he did - it`s just that he couldn`t actually see his own statement under his nose that was the problem!! And besides that, what`s a few months between friends - it`s not as if it`s really important :giggle:

 

[TheRisenBishop]

that's great thankyou.

re ur ....."to convince the jury he is innocent."

I'm way off the mark as i was thinking he viewed that as "sport" at the most.

I assumed he knew he had little chance of success there but what the hell he will "die trying" and get satisfaction from thinking he has also given it his best shot , scored a few tiny cons and naturally he can't ever let the mask slip to his family - that he is the evil being that trimmer says he is .

You're bang on the mark actually.

It's so natural that he wants to get acquitted, that it's a given; and however unrealistic an aim, it's still his No1 aim.

The success or failure of being acquitted though has no bearing on Aim No2 which he's currently enjoying regardless. He won't let aim 1 spoil his enjoyment of aim 2 especially as he knows the chances of being acquitted are so remote.

 

[ColourPurple]

From reading everything and from the wonderful WSers firsthand reports of the courtroom plus Bish's fascinating posts I have the impression IS - in his all over the place mind - actually believes he will be found Not Guilty.

He has covered everything explaining J & N's kidnapping/dognapping, his own suffering at their violent hands :slapfight:, being forced to lie to family and police, constantly under such terrifying pressure from J & N until that mini phone call when on remand hone: (accompanied by apologies and condolences) uke: that finally freed him to open up and tell all about what happened.

I sincerely hope he believes the verdict will find him innocent of all these ridiculous crimes, it will make the Guilty verdict all the more incomprehensible to him and his suffering will be evident. :noooo:

I am not a vindictive person, but I would so like to be in court when the jury return to say ....
IS - you are going down :behindbar


(apologies for the emojies, but otherwise my language would be inadmissable)

Yes I think if he thinks that all he has to do to be found not guilty is come up with an explanation for everything then he may well think "job done". But he'd be forgetting that the explanations have to be believable.

 

[LozDa]

I'm sure, for me, there will be another case along soon that will involve me as much as this one. Perhaps that is the old journo in me that can't let go.

During this case, I have made two wonderful new friends, we have moved our contact from here to other places and I am feeling blessed. I also think Helen would approve of women coming together in friendship as a result of this awful mess. Hunkerdown is getting a Boris/Bailey. I feel I've experienced an incredible example of selflessness, kindness and understanding from the actions of the dear Mr John B, and his partner, who seem to be able to spread warmth and love despite their tragic loss and trauma of this awful trial. Despite the horror of it all, I feel Helen has given me some wonderful gifts. I never met her, but I know I will never forget her. I will be buying all of her books.

I'm sure there will be another case for me too. I'm glad so much good has come from a terrible situation; I'm absolutely positive Helen would find great joy in that.

"Despite the horror of it all, I feel Helen has given me some wonderful gifts. I never met her, but I know I will never forget her." - Hear hear. Couldn't agree more. x

 

[LozDa]

Yikes - seems to me that the witnesses for the prosecution and the witnesses for the defence are two and the same thing
The poor cafe owner looked like he`d rather be at the dentist, or waiting for a flight from Luton airport which has been indefinitely delayed due to raging snow blizzards (and the refreshment areas have been closed for the night). Anywhere but standing in the witness box! He looked very uncomfortable.
He couldn`t see anything as he`s forgotten his glasses (as I`m sure you`ve gathered) so when the defence referred to parts of his statement, he had to have them read out to him as he couldn`t see. After the clerk offered her glasses (still couldn`t see!), the very considerate Judge said he would lend him his glasses if he thought that would help!!!
He definitely saw Helen - he did - it`s just that he couldn`t actually see his own statement under his nose that was the problem!! And besides that, what`s a few months between friends - it`s not as if it`s really important :giggle:

I bloody love you. Hahaha!

ETA: Did they ask him if he was wearing glasses when he absolutely, definitely saw Helen driving the car that absolutely definitely wasn't a Black BMW 4x4 but was absolutely definitely, a dark coloured 4x4? Bless him!

 

[Tortoise]

that's great thankyou.

re ur ....."to convince the jury he is innocent."

I'm way off the mark as i was thinking he viewed that as "sport" at the most.

I assumed he knew he had little chance of success there but what the hell he will "die trying" and get satisfaction from thinking he has also given it his best shot , scored a few tiny cons and naturally he can't ever let the mask slip to his family - that he is the evil being that trimmer says he is .

I wonder what we would be seeing/hearing from him if he had no sons. I can't help thinking that this is mainly for their consumption. To keep them from disowning him and to keep them under his spell, also to stop them from wondering about their mum.

 

[TheRisenBishop]

BIB It doesn't sound like he's doing a very good job there, though.

Michelle: "He wiped away a tear once! And do you know when that was??? It was when he was describing how two ornaments were broken during the police search!"

He can't do a good job because he's just mimicking. Such raw emotions in extremis, as in this case, are nuanced and raw and easily identified as being genuine distress or otherwise.

In this example, as evidenced by Michelle, he thinks that two ornaments with sentimental value would have enough emotional currency to warrant a tear but fails to appreciate that most jurors and observers would question why he choose this one recollection above more distressing recollections to cry. He cannot discern all of the things that humans find emotional because he's pathologically incapable and over a prolonged period he will get caught out as evidenced by Michelle.

 

[Tortoise]

Well there are enough of us here to do a quick straw poll.

If anyone here thinks IS has raised reasonable doubt please thank my post.

Go on, don't be shy!

Still trying to sell this idea.. Speak or forever hold your peace.

 

[cottonweaver]

I wonder what we would be seeing/hearing from him if he had no sons. I can't help thinking that this is mainly for their consumption. To keep them from disowning him and to keep them under his spell, also to stop them from wondering about their mum.

BIB - I like that , it resonates. If his persona is unmasked the spell (control) is broken.
UL Million dollar question - does that extend to Diane, indeed.

I know we will soon know the answer to both of these things but I am so now impatient to know ... perhaps cause I really thought we were on closing speeches and came back to find no news from court.

Thanks to neted re pointing out the Ipad and the ransom evidence for tomorrow but back to the book .....

What if one of the sons, eg JS has found some hackneyed ransom plot-line in a box of IS's stuff/books from the study and has given that to the Pros? ETA just been scrolling back and Mozza and Alyce have posted on same lines. Crikey - imagine if it really is something like that , this trial has been crazy enough already.

 

[michelle230]

I bloody love you. Hahaha!

ETA: Did they ask him if he was wearing glasses when he absolutely, definitely saw Helen driving the car that absolutely definitely wasn't a Black BMW 4x4 but was absolutely definitely, a dark coloured 4x4? Bless him!

I think torturing of witnesses has been outlawed :notgood:

 

[icemaiden65]

I wonder what we would be seeing/hearing from him if he had no sons. I can't help thinking that this is mainly for their consumption. To keep them from disowning him and to keep them under his spell, also to stop them from wondering about their mum.

An awful thought crossed my mind last night re. Diane. If IS is a tinkerer with drugs - and I don't think any of us are in any doubt about that, how about this as a possible. We don't know if Diane was on anti-convulsant drugs but, given the few attacks she'd had, including a period of not be allowed to drive, it's a possibility. Withdrawal of such drugs can bring on an attack/fit, albeit not at a predictable time and place. Might he have sort of 'worked in reverse' and exchanged anti-convulsants for something as innocuous as (say) sweeteners? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[michelle230]

Other than that lots of paper shuffling and lots of discussion amongst the Bigwigs. They are all trying to make this trial as fair as they possibly can.

 

[cottonweaver]

You're bang on the mark actually.

It's so natural that he wants to get acquitted, that it's a given; and however unrealistic an aim, it's still his No1 aim.

The success or failure of being acquitted though has no bearing on Aim No2 which he's currently enjoying regardless. He won't let aim 1 spoil his enjoyment of aim 2 especially as he knows the chances of being acquitted are so remote.

BIB So twisted, fascinating though.

OTopic really but how do people like JB and his partner forgive when it's a psychopath? It's not as if he has a treatable MH issue. I bring in JB's partner as he is a Revd ( IDK what denomination) but I've always marvelled & admired how people can forgive. Or would you say regardless of someone's religious "journey" that counselling is still vital?

( If a killer is psychotic /there is no pre-med I absolutely could see myself finding some empathy but with this kind of character I come up dry. At the same time, I appreciate all victims have to find some kind of peace or acceptance or they will be dragged down with this awful creature. )

Do you ever envisage that these P. disorders will be treatable in any worthwhile way, say , in our life-time?

Appreciate those are big involved questions, feel free not to answer all/some of them.
(Goodness knows how the two sons and the parents will cope with what's been revealed)

 

[ColourPurple]

An awful thought crossed my mind last night re. Diane. If IS is a tinkerer with drugs - and I don't think any of us are in any doubt about that, how about this as a possible. We don't know if Diane was on anti-convulsant drugs but, given the few attacks she'd had, including a period of not be allowed to drive, it's a possibility. Withdrawal of such drugs can bring on an attack/fit, albeit not at a predictable time and place. Might he have sort of 'worked in reverse' and exchanged anti-convulsants for something as innocuous as (say) sweeteners? Just thinking out loud here.

I think Snoopy mentioned a similar theory. I noticed yesterday that my vitamin D tablets are identical in size, shape and colour to the Buscopan tablets I used to take for my gallstone pain.

 

[TheRisenBishop]

I wonder what we would be seeing/hearing from him if he had no sons. I can't help thinking that this is mainly for their consumption. To keep them from disowning him and to keep them under his spell, also to stop them from wondering about their mum.

You and CW are really starting to get the hang of this profiling lark!

It's true though, I'm sure he's given it consideration for after he's sent down so he can carry on playing the victim and manipulating any remaining doubts they have. (Not that they will!).