GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #9

[neteditor]

I'd have lost my bet on that then!

The first two were in Scotland so it would be an easy confusion

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, it only refers to majority verdicts. I read that a couple of days ago and was slightly bemused until I re-read it and saw the word 'majority'.

I suspect there is no such rule for a unanimous jury. It would be wise for them to spend a little time going over it, so there can be no claim that they didn't deliberate it thoroughly.

They will have had a few opportunities to compare notes, I think. I know they are not to discuss it unless all 12 are present, but ...

If as I suspect the Tobin case was in Scotland, the law is different there so would not give any pointers.

I've just checked. It was at Chelmsford Crown Court

 

[Cherwell]

Another one where no defence was offered, I see, so these cases are not comparable.

And he had already been found guilty and was serving life for other murders.

 

[neteditor]

Another one where no defence was offered, I see, so these cases are not comparable.

That is the salient point, there wasn't as much to discuss.

Also worth noting that juries are told not to discuss the trial until they are sent out for deliberation. There would be a jury clerk with them to ensure all the various rules are followed. They don't want them discussing evidence without having heard all of it.

 

[Alyce]

Didn't he plead guilty, Alyce?

No he didn't enter a plea at all, so not guilty pleas were entered on his behalf...he also had a charge of GBH in relation to the man who tried to stop him murdering Jo Cox.

 

[Moll]

Thank you! He does look affable, as Lit Up says he appears in court, but I hope he won't be too affable. I tried to find more about him - he was the judge in this very unpleasant murder case last year
http://www.heart.co.uk/dunstable/news/local/man-found-guilty-babysitter-murder/#LBepd12xkhY7CD8L.97
and was also thanked for hosting (as ever) the St Albans Crown Court Quiz Night, but I can't find anything out about his career as QC. His chambers are /were 9 Bedford Row.

 

[Tortoise]

Are you going tomorrow Michelle?

 

[neteditor]

Another one where no defence was offered, I see, so these cases are not comparable.

And he had already been found guilty and was serving life for other murders.

The jury would not have been made aware of that though.

 

[Joely 123]

As we wait for Justice for Helen, Boris and their family.

The biggest miss is Helen - but another miss is not knowing what she knew, thought in those last few months.
She would have been so protective of Boris. And IS denied her deepest protection of her best love - the little one who helped to carry her through her loss of John S.
IF she had seen any signs of IS being cruel to Boris, she would have known he was the wrong man for her.
We have to perhaps assume that the f...... was coercive in his attention to Boris as he was to Helen.
And we all know she would be beyond horror to think of him harming her baby dog.

She said (jestingly) - we know - that she would 'kill him with her words if he let her down' (wtte) and we know how she would feel if he were to harm Boris, which absolutely seems that he did.

I like WS because all of you continue to speak for Helen and how she would wish it to be said against him, if she were able to tell us.

And .. so I wish ...

Helen, you enlightened others on Planet Grief,
gave others a cocoon, a trip board in which to speak,
to share the deepest cut of loss of love -
to turn your world to nowhere and find another Planet -
with a shared language.

A language of skating across ice, no more climbing the mountain alone.
You gave your hope and bartered for optimism.
Optimism that you were clinging to despite an avalanche descending.

Nobody knows when an avalanche shifts, travels its own course -
but this is Nature .. the natural world we are in awe of,
not a domestic, treacherous nature where one imagines no risks
sipping tea from a Snowdrop Mug.

You were brave to climb the mountain beyond grief
leaving us back at camp wondering
But in wonder and awe of you.



Our Voice shall always be for you - for your family - your beloved Brother, enduring Court - for Boris .. and we shall not be ever silent. We pray - I pray for the perpetuator of your life ending with Boris shall grow one day within prison to recognise his killing of such beauty.

 

[neteditor]

[FONT=&quot]Tobin, dressed in dark trousers and the same lilac jumper and shirt he wore for his previous murder trials, sat impassively as he was sentenced. Two jury members wept as details of his other crimes were disclosed in court after the verdict.[/FONT]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/16/peter-tobin-guilty-dinah-mcnicol

Confirmation the jury didn't know about Tobin's prior convictions until sentencing took place (immediately after the verdict).

 

[michelle230]

Are you going tomorrow Michelle?

Yes - funnily enough it was pretty quiet when I popped in for 10 minutes on Friday (I wonder why!).
No idea what to expect tomorrow - hard hat and shin pads ready by the door :thinking:

 

[Cherwell]

The jury would not have been made aware of that though.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/16/peter-tobin-guilty-dinah-mcnicol

Confirmation the jury didn't know about Tobin's prior convictions until sentencing took place (immediately after the verdict).

Yes, I realise that. I mentioned it because he had previously been tried, convicted and sentenced in Scotland which is what I thought you were talking about when you said the jury only took 20 minutes. I was unaware that he had been tried in England for other offences, while already serving life in prison.

 

[Lovinnen]

My memory might be playing tricks on me but whilst the jury might have been unaware of Angelina Kluks murder I thought they would have been well aware of Vickis. The discovery of hers and Dinah McNicols bodies were headline news nationwide and there were BBC cameras at Vicki Hamilton s which was earlier.

I thought they meant the jury didn't know of the rapes Tobin had been convicted of involving the 14 year olds a number of years earlier

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you! He does look affable, as Lit Up says he appears in court, but I hope he won't be too affable. I tried to find more about him - he was the judge in this very unpleasant murder case last year
http://www.heart.co.uk/dunstable/news/local/man-found-guilty-babysitter-murder/#LBepd12xkhY7CD8L.97
and was also thanked for hosting (as ever) the St Albans Crown Court Quiz Night, but I can't find anything out about his career as QC. His chambers are /were 9 Bedford Row.

He presided over the trial of Carl Wheatley too, for the murder of his 4 year old daughter Alexa-Marie. I've just found the thread here so I'm going to have a little read to see if much was said about his sentencing remarks.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-beaten-to-death-Hatfield-Herts-12-March-2014

 

[Tortoise]

Oh I've just seen it's only 3 posts long. The answer is no then.

 

[jenspired]

Good morning all. Today is my birthday; the best gift would be a guilty verdict and justice for Helen and Boris.

Oh what a tangled web we weave

 

[Lit Up]

The jury won't be sent out before 1pm, that's what the judge said; he's got to do more summing up. So assuming they have a full lunch break, rather than deliberate, that brings them to 2pm, the court closes at 4:30 so there is perhaps a possibility that a verdict won't be reached today and we have to wait until tomorrow morning, if it takes them more than a couple of hours?

 

[Squamous]

I think we're looking at tomorrow. End of the morning at the earliest in my opinion.

I'm still a bit anxious after SRF's tour de force.

 

[Tortoise]

:bdsong:

jenspired!

 

[Florrie]

I think we're looking at tomorrow. End of the morning at the earliest in my opinion.

I'm still a bit anxious after SRF's tour de force.

Me too but am hanging on to the ridiculousness of IS's tale hereafter known as The Ballad of Nick and Joe/Dave". Surely NOBODY could really believe that story.

I am not predicting a verdict before tomorrow though unless we get very lucky. It will only take one jury member to say "hang on perhaps we should consider NiJo" to tie it up in knots for an extra day or two but I predict a guilty verdict anyway.

Personally I think the master stroke was producing two poor ex friends of IS named "Nick and Joe". That will stick in the jury's mind and hopefully help them to remember how tangled is the web IS has tried to weave.


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