GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[Ironside]

Maybe he threatened her with a gun, the idea of a gun?

Very very unlikely, this isn't America. Guns are very hard to get hold of in Scotland. Even if he did threaten her with something in the club there would have been hundreds of people around to help her. She wouldn't just leave with someone who made a threat. I think it is unlikely he had any weapon on him in the club, he is wearing a shirt and trousers and it would be hard to conceal any weapon. The security staff keep a good eye out for weapons when people are entering.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

He must have told them what happened. How else would they know she was attacked at his flat "and elsewhere?".

 

[MamaJoJo]

Very very unlikely, this isn't America. Guns are very hard to get hold of in Scotland. Even if he did threaten her with something in the club there would have been hundreds of people around to help her. She wouldn't just leave with someone who made a threat. I think it is unlikely he had any weapon on him in the club, he is wearing a shirt and trousers and it would be hard to conceal any weapon. The security staff keep a good eye out for weapons when people are entering.

No, I wasn't thinking he actually had a gun, just that he verbally threatened her with one. Now that you mention it, I can see how in GB that would seem asinine. Common here, not common there.

 

[ChuckieD]

He must have told them what happened. How else would they know she was attacked at his flat "and elsewhere?".

Blood splatter in the flat maybe?

How far is his flat from the club? Walking distance? I did look at Skibs maps but, as my husband says, I am geographically challenged!

 

[Clio]

He must have told them what happened. How else would they know she was attacked at his flat "and elsewhere?".

They could have found additional CCTV which they haven't disclosed.

 

[Ironside]

If he told police what happened surely he would have given a guilty plea? He may not have said anything. The police would have been able to track her phone records and view cctv of his car driving towards Dorchester Ave. I think they traced him by his car and knew he went to Milngavie on monday because of his phone. The forensics would show something happened in his flat.

 

[Clio]

Blood splatter in the flat maybe?

How far is his flat from the club? Walking distance? I did look at Skibs maps but, as my husband says, I am geographically challenged!

Just over three miles according to google maps - 55 minute walk

 

[cluciano63]

I still think he wanted sex and things went badly. And in his efforts to cover up, he used bleach or some other substance. It does not sound like a planned murder to me. He walked away with her so obviously, in view of cameras, etc...jmo

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm not disputing something happened in the flat, it's the "elsewhere" part. Where? And how do they know? Either he told them, or it might be related to the "something nasty" CCTV that apparently exists.

 

[Ironside]

Could the elsewhere be the garden outside his flat? Seems unlikely as surely someone would have heard something but forensics were all over the garden.

 

[Ironside]

No, I wasn't thinking he actually had a gun, just that he verbally threatened her with one. Now that you mention it, I can see how in GB that would seem asinine. Common here, not common there.

Unless someone actually shows you their gun you just wouldn't believe they even had one. I suppose it is automatic for Americans to assume gun.

I don't think he threatened her with anything in the club as she was surrounded by hundreds of people and could easily asked for help. Scottish people would instantly jump in and help a woman who was being harrassed by a creep.

 

[sar2them1984]

I'm not disputing something happened in the flat, it's the "elsewhere" part. Where? And how do they know? Either he told them, or it might be related to the "something nasty" CCTV that apparently exists.

Flat and car? Blood spatter could corroborate both places

 

[Alyce]

So where else was she attacked with the spanner apart from the flat, according to the paper he is accused of hitting her with the spanner at Dorchester Avenue and another location.

My thought would be that this is just the police/prosecutors keeping the charge as wide as possible to cover all locations. It is possible they are not 100% sure at what point the spanner attack or attacks took place.

 

[ChuckieD]

If he told police what happened surely he would have given a guilty plea? He may not have said anything. The police would have been able to track her phone records and view cctv of his car driving towards Dorchester Ave. I think they traced him by his car and knew he went to Milngavie on monday because of his phone. The forensics would show something happened in his flat.

He'd be an idiot to plead this early in and a solicitor would heavily encourage him not to. Whether he's confessed or not, he's still entitled to a defence. God knows what he will use as a defence but I'm guessing others are right in that he will use the previous car accident.

 

[Alyce]

We covered this earlier in the thread. If you read previous posts a lot of people on here got confused by the way some papers had reported the timeline and believed there was cctv from the flat of her leaving at 4am. The mum may have innocently thought the same. Mothers always think their sons can do no wrong.

I wonder if the 4am time is significant though....is this the time at which AP removed Karen from his flat - and he therefore quoted that time to the police in case anyone saw him ?

 

[ChuckieD]

Just over three miles according to google maps - 55 minute walk

Thank you, guessing he drove then. My guess is he whacked her to disorientate and incapacitate her to get her into the car and the rest happened once back at the flat. I just hope it was quick as we have an entire day and a half to account for.

Why oh why did Karen leave that club? I would really like to know how he convinced her to leave like that. Could he have told her that her friends had just left as she came out of the toilets maybe? But why would she believe him? Is Sanctuary a big place, would it take a while to walk around looking for somebody inside when it was very busy? Sorry I'm rambling but that is the one thing that is boggling my mind, why she left in the first place, I do not for a second believe she was interested in him romantically and I think it was something else.

 

[Clio]

Maybe he knew she was a nurse. Perhaps he said he had a friend who had taken ill in his car which was just around the corner and would she mind coming to take a look?

 

[ChuckieD]

Maybe he knew she was a nurse. Perhaps he said he had a friend who had taken ill in his car which was just around the corner and would she mind coming to take a look?

Apparently there's an A&E department directly across the road and even a nurse, no matter how caring she was, would probably tell him to go there than go off with him. I can't see it, even if there wasn't a hospital across the road.

 

[Bravo]

So very sorry to hear the manner of Death. Horrific. RIP Karen :rose:

 

[Ayrshirelass]

https://www.facebook.com/GreaterGlasgowPoliceDivision/posts/1583269308577918

Though a long time lurker and very infrequent poster I'm not sure of the protocol here on things like this but I thought I should post this here:

Please note important advice from the Crown Office with regards the Pacteau case:
"Please note the Pacteau case is now live under Contempt of Court Act and nothing should be published that might prejudice the case."

If I'm breaking any rules I apologise.